Iowa Is Uncertain as Out-of-State [non-resisidents] Students Return

[rodeodance]

Source: nytimes



Iowa Is Uncertain as Out-of-State Students Return
Jim Wilson/The New York Times


Alec Schierenbeck, 20, who lives in Brooklyn, is a junior at the Grinnell College. He flew into Des Moines on Wednesday and plans to join a caucus at Grinnell on Thursday night.



By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
Published: January 2, 2008

DES MOINES — One of the $64,000-questions about Thursday’s Iowa caucuses is how much students from out of state will influence the outcome.


A big argument has been raging here about rules that allow out-of-state students who attend schools in Iowa to vote as long as they are not registered elsewhere. Although presidential campaigns here have been notorious over the years for using out-of-staters to pack rallies and organize, at issue here is their actual participation in the caucuses: some see it as a hijacking of their process, while others see it as a voting rights issue and say that as many people as possible should be encouraged to participate.

The role of students is mainly an issue among Democrats because they tend to draw more young people. Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, whose “change” theme is particularly appealing to young people, has been openly encouraging out-of-state students in Iowa to come back from winter break and caucus.

No one knows how many students will show up or what percent of the final turnout they will make up. But only 124,000 Democrats turned out in 2004, and even if, as predicted, many more turn out Thursday, thousands of out-of-state students here could still have a disproportionate say in the results. .........

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/us/politics/03student.html?hp

[David Dunham]

1. Most of them will not show up

[CoffeeCat]

2. Iowa college students have ALWAYS caucused.

College students live in these Iowa towns where they will be caucusing. They are residents
of Iowa for most of the year. Yes, they are on a three-week winter break, but they LIVE IN IOWA.
They are residents of Iowa.

Why in the world is it an issue that they will caucus? I assure you that no one in Iowa considers
this some blazing issue about which we should all be hysterical.

This has NEVER been an issue in the Iowa caucuses. NEVER! It's like someone is trying
to discombobulate and inflate something that is not even an issue.

College students living in Iowa have always caucused and voted in their college towns.

We don't care what state they're from. They're Iowa residents! They can legally
vote here.

This is really ridiculous.

[stillcool]

4. I always thought that...

this was the law...

1972 In Dunn v. Blumstein, the Supreme Court declares that lengthy residence requirements for voting in state and local elections is unconstitutional and suggests that 30 days is an ample period.

guess not?:shrug:

[taylor egv420106]

12. Don't Confuse

Elections with Caucuses. The Caucus/primary in this situation is strictly a party issue. Its totally up to the party how to handle it.

[stillcool]

13. could you explain that...

to me.. I mean if I..a registered voter in Iowa..wanted to participate in the primary in Iowa..what would the criteria be?

[taylor egv420106]

14. Simple

If you currently live in Iowa and will be eligible to vote in the November 2008 election under federal election guidelines that means you can participate in the caucus.

The Iowa PRIMARY which may decide the rest of the slate is a whole different issue, this is totally for part organization and for selecting the Presidential nominee.

You can be 17 and if you will be eligible to vote in November 2008 you can participate.

You dont even have to be registered right now, you can register at the caucus, the only requirement is you will have to at least temporarily join the party you caucus with.

[stillcool]

17. so how does that negate...

or alter the 1972 ruling when the Supreme Court "declares that lengthy residence requirements for voting in state and local elections is unconstitutional and suggests that 30 days is an ample period."

[taylor egv420106]

19. It doesn't

They aren't voting in a federal election, it simply doesn't apply.

[stillcool]

20. But the ruling declares ...

...that lengthy residence requirements for voting in state and local elections is unconstitutional and suggests that 30 days is an ample period."

[taylor egv420106]

24. What part of

It not being an election aren't you comprehending?

[stillcool]

26. you said...

" If you currently live in Iowa and will be eligible to vote in the November 2008 election under federal election guidelines that means you can participate in the caucus.

The Iowa PRIMARY which may decide the rest of the slate is a whole different issue, this is totally for part organization and for selecting the Presidential nominee.

You can be 17 and if you will be eligible to vote in November 2008 you can participate.

You dont even have to be registered right now, you can register at the caucus, the only requirement is you will have to at least temporarily join the party you caucus with."

[killbotfactory]

9. Most of them are for Obama

Hence the "controversy"

[BringBigDogBack]

30. I think a big percantage will caucus

[JackORoses]

3. Newsflash ** Hillarites blame College Students for loss in Iowa **

:)

ahahahahahaha!

[rodeodance]

7. “The Clinton campaign has a core group of very committed student activists, and they have done not o

“The Clinton campaign has a core group of very committed student activists, and they have done not only a lot of work on campus but — and this is the untold story of the youth-voter impact — the Clinton campaign has been working tirelessly in the greater community to help mobilize all voters, not just their peers.”

[Pirate Smile]

5. This is really NOT an issue. Previously, the caucuses were held when

school was back in session. Students would caucus. No big deal.

The only reason it is even being talked about is because the caucus was scheduled during the break because of everything getting moved up. Out-of-State students who live in Iowa for the school year are legal Iowa voters whether the caucus is during the winter break or while classes are in session.

[Bitwit1234]

6. Well Oprah decided she had spent enough on the busses

[MADem]

8. It's not democracy--it's an amusing tradition-- "...only 124,000 Democrats turned out in 2004"

That's not Democracy. That's a few hyperinvolved political junkies, not a representation of the voting public.

Democracy is when the Iowa soldier serving in Falujah can make his voice heard. Democracy is when the senior citizen visiting her great grandchildren in California over the holidays can be represented. Democracy is when the guy in the nursing home can be represented as well.

The 'thing' in Iowa is interesting, a curious anachronism, but it isn't democracy. Eleven percent of the VOTING population voicing their opinion is NOT democracy. It's just a quaint little custom that makes a good bit of money for an agrarian state.

[taylor egv420106]

10. Get real

What percentage of people voted in your states primary?

Where are you from?

Amazing how many Dems are willing to snivel and whine about Iowa but they are too cowardly to say where they are from or compare their own primary stats to Iowas.

[MADem]

16. More than DOUBLE what IA coughs up voted in my state's primary last time around

That's as a function of PERCENTAGE--25 percent.

If you wanna talk actual numbers, over seven hundred thousand turned out in '04. For the DEMOCRATS.

200K turned out for the GOP, thereabouts.

My point, though, stands. A person from my state who is serving in Falujah, vacationing out of state with their great-grandkids, or bedridden in a nursing home CAN participate in the process.

They can't in Iowa.

And no amount of defensiveness or unreasonable anger on your part can change that fact. Iowa DISENFRANCHISES with the caucus process.

If anyone's sniveling and whining here, it ain't me.

My state doesn't disenfranchise people for the crime of being in military service, on holiday, or ill. Iowa does.

One more thing--my PROFILE quite CLEARLY says where I'm from, if the MA(Massachusetts) Dem (Democrat) aspect of my name leaves you clueless as to my state of origin.

:eyes: Jesus!!! :eyes:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

21. "Whoopty doo?" You tell that to that Iowa corporal in Fallujah, whydoncha?

It's not "delusional thinking" pal. It's fact. Iowa servicemembers don't like being excluded. They say so, often. It's covered in news articles. And it isn't just them--it's the ill, the vacationing, the Iowa citizen living overseas--all of whom are excluded by the system.

http://www.ascribe.org/cgi-bin/behold.pl?ascribeid=20071227.103441&time=10%2057%20PST&year=2007&public=1
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/123007/met_230226051.shtml

But let's research your assertion. Let's go back to 2000, then, when there wasn't a MA hometown boy in the mix, shall we, then? OOOPS!!! The total number of folks voting was....just about the same, though not as many voted Dem for the hometown boy.


And we didn't even have that Iowa advantage of actually INFLUENCING events--we weren't doing the "Super Tuesday" thing back then. But we still turned out in greater percentage than Iowa caucus goers.

Nice try, though.

Dem. & GOP Presidential Primaries: Massachusetts

REPUBLICANS

Candidate Votes Vote % * Est % Del Est
John McCain 320,617 65% 66% 37
George W. Bush 158,208 32% 31%
Alan Keyes 12,561 3% 3%
No Preference 1,453 0% 0%
Others 2,392 0% 0%
100% Reporting Precincts
CNN call: WINNER

John McCain
* Est % is estimated final percentage expected
Exit poll: GOP


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEMOCRATS

Candidate Votes Vote % * Est % Del Est
Al Gore 337,175 60% 60% 57
Bill Bradley 210,132 38% 38% 36
No Preference 11,082 2% 2%
Others 2,069 0% 0%
100% Reporting Precincts
CNN call: WINNER

Al Gore
* Est % is estimated final percentage expected
Exit poll: Dem.

Oh, and for the record there, "pal" I suggest you read the DU rules. You've managed to break a few of them with this childish little diatribe:

Despite what your friends at the Fox news network have told you pointing out the facts that you are a sniveling coward isn't defensiveness or anger, its a simple facts.

I'm NOT a "snivelling coward" but you are behaving childishly by tossing such immature insults. And sorry to disappoint you, I don't watch Fox News. You must, though, since you seem to be familiar with their programming.

Isn't that special?

This particular shriek of yours, though, takes the cake--let's break THAT down, too, shall we?

The caucus doesn't disenfranchise ANYONE it simply requires you to put forth an effort.

Gee, REALLY? Pray tell, how does someone who is SERVING IN IRAQ, or HOSPITALIZED, or on vacation, or working overseas, or out of state on business, put forth that effort, there, Rocket Scientist? Teleportation? Mind control???

And this is priceless in it's vapidity:

Though apparently effort is too much to ask from "patriots" like you. perhaps you would prefer that they not have any requirements like making someone register to vote either, maybe they can go door to door and ask you your preference so you dont have to get your ass off the couch. Maybe they can change your diaper too in case you feel forcing someone to go to the bathroom is "disenfranchising" them.

Now THAT was ignorant! Rather astoundingly so, too! And you were so doggone PROUD of yourself, there, with that load of BS! You're familiar with diapers, perhaps? Is that what motivated that last bit?

See, 'patriots' like me (from the state of the first patriots) spend election day, after we vote ourselves, driving people to the polls. Last primary, and it wasn't even a presidential one, I delivered 112 people safely to the voting booth and home again.

See, I actually GOT my ass off the couch, there, genius. I do it every election. Of course, if you did anything besides "Hit and Run" with your Mom's Basement-Style "I'll Get Snarky Even Though I Don't Know Shit" Rants, you just might be aware of this, as others here are.

Oh, and because, plainly, you don't KNOW, based on your "register to vote" remark-- it's IOWA that doesn't require people to register to vote in advance there, Brainiac--all ya gotta do is show up on the day and fill out a form--so THAT was pretty frigging ignorant of you to make that assertion as well.

In Massachusetts, we DO have to register in advance. So, BZZZZZZZZZZ!!! A big DUUUH for you! Wrong yet AGAIN!!! You're making a nasty habit of that in this discussion. Too bad for you!

Pathetic! A bit funny, in a sick and sad way, though, but most of all, pathetic. You don't know your subject matter at all, you're quite proud in your ignorance, AND you're insulting to boot. No wonder you're so familiar with Fox News--that's their style, certainly!

You're a sad thing, indeed.

[taylor egv420106]

25. I have over twenty five years of Democratic Party XP

I'll put my Democratic credentials up against wannabes like you anyday.

[MADem]

28. Sure ya do, there, pal. You don't even know the Iowa voter registration rules,

(which have only been a topic of discussion here and on every political news and commentary program in the run up to the caucuses), you engage in personal insults in violation of forum rules, you conduct yourself like a petulant teenager....and you've got twenty five years experience! In dog years, mayber!

Tell your Mom you need more Hot Pockets, there, kid....you're sounding a bit cranky.

[Thor_MN]

23. I only say this because I care, but there are many brands that taste the same as caffinated coffees.

MADem does not immediately suggest Massachusetts Democrat, despite your thinking it does. I will give you that your profile does say where you are from, but take a chill pill. It could be your profession for all we know.

What's with all the anger? Why the hostility towards Iowa? We in Minnesota say that the Mississippi River flows south because Iowa sucks, but that is normal rivalry.

Maybe a nap is in order and then you can find the correct side of the bed to get out of.

[MADem]

29. I do beg your pardon?

How would you like to be called a "snivelling coward" and have it averred that you were somehow lazy because you find the IA caucus process disenfranchising--which it IS? And then in you come with a two-three punch of anger and hostility? Please.

You need a civics lesson, I think.

I spent a career in the military struggling with the fucking US mail to STAY enfranchised. Now, if you think that denying people the right to voice their political views is just 'silly,' and folks shouldn't get "angry" or "hostile" about it, well, maybe you belong in a feudal or totalitarian arrangement, because, plainly, your voting rights aren't so very important to you like they are to me and many others.

I find what Iowa does to be "the opposite of Democracy" and I think it is anachronistic. You don't have to like my view. You don't have to AGREE with that view. But I have every right to voice it without being abused by some snarky little poster who doesn't even KNOW the IA caucus rules, and makes that plain in the very same post where he's hurling invective at me.

It has nothing to do with "Iowa" the state -- it has to do with the caucus system that flat-out tells those who work swing shifts, those who serve in the military, those who are away out of state working, driving a truck, serving in the military, those who are ill in hospital or in long term care facilities, that THEY don't fucking count. They can't voice their view in an absentee fashion, because there's no mechanism for that. It's "Be There, or Be Square--and Be Fucked, Disenfranchised, Not Counted."

And there's NOTHING they can do about it. Sorry, that's bullshit. It isn't what Democracy Looks Like.

I dunno about your ability to figure out my name, but on this forum, you'll find a shitload of us who use the US postal abbreviation for our state, followed by Dem, to describe where we are from and what we are. But hey, if it's a mystery, it's a mystery. I don't play that "hide profile" crap. I give enough detail to be placed by state/region.

[BenDavid]

11. how in the world can the officials of this caucus know whether or

not someone is registered in another state? Damn! Did not know the government had instant background checks that showed whether someone was registered or not!:crazy: Hell, if ann coulter can vote in two places and get away with it then I am sure these students will be able to as well.....

[taylor egv420106]

15. Its not their responsibility

In fact the voter registration specifically states that if they vote in Iowa they are NOT eligible to participate in another states primary. If the student commits voter fraud there is no way that could be argued as the responsibility of the state.

[MADem]

22. They can't. They can maybe check later, but not at the time.

And they'd have to wait to see if they voted in more than one place after the fact.

IA has that rule where you can show up, fill out a form, and VOILA!!! you're an IA voter! Other states require that you register not later than a certain date (a month or two before election day in some places) in order to vote in that state.

[boricua79]

27. i wouldn't count on them to show up

young people rally a lot...and then never vote.