Eve-teasing should be made non-bailable offence

[reorg]

Source: The Hindu

Eve-teasing should be made non-bailable offence: NCW
Special Correspondent (The Hindu, India)

NEW DELHI: The National Commission for Women (NCW) has suggested making harassment of women, including eve-teasing, non-bailable offences. Also, those who are witness to such attacks and do not come to the rescue of the victim should be made liable to prosecution, NCW chairperson Girija Vyas told reporters here on Friday.

Ms. Vyas said acts of eve-teasing by way of whistling, winking and stalking should be made non-bailable offences with a minimum punishment of seven years imprisonment.

She said those who are witness to such incidents — whether in public places, offices or elsewhere — and do not intervene to help the victim should also be made a party to the offence.

(...)

The need for a new law on sexual assault was felt as the present law does not define various kinds of sexual assault that women are subject to in the country. Offences such as eve-teasing and molestation are never regarded as criminal offences and there is a need now to include them in the definition of sexual assault, Ms. Vyas explained.

...

Read more: http://www.hindu.com/2008/02/02/stories/2008020256011200.htm

---

For those of you who are, like me, not too familiar with the term "eve-teasing", here is a definition:

eve-teasing
n. harassment of, or sexually aggressive behavior toward, women or girls.

1984 Guardian (U.K.) (Oct. 2) “When the teasing had to stop” (in New Delhi): Buses in Delhi are notoriously the worst place for “Eve-teasing"—the Indian term which covers everything from sexual harassment, pestering, groping, whispered obscenities as well as light-hearted cat calls and equivalents of “hello darling.”

http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/eve_teasing/

And from another article in The Hindu:

"Where does eve-teasing have its roots? Is this seen in every country? An interesting fact needs to be mentioned here. If one types `eve-teasing' in any internet search engine, you would be surprised that page after page of results are almost entirely Indian web pages. Maybe, other countries refer to this more subtly under `sexual harassment,' but a cursory survey among frequent travellers to other countries confirms that `eve-teasing' in its form of hooting-ogling-loud commenting-whistling, etc., does tend to be more prevalent in India. Not something to be proud about. Eve-teasing is a crude way of garnering female attention. It is unnecessarily glorified by movies, although movie makers may argue that it is a classical `chicken and egg' situation. One must admit that eve-teasing can most certainly be perpetuated easily by its continued glorification in movies."

http://www.hindu.com/op/2004/04/13/stories/2004041300121800.htm

[izquierdista]

1. It has its roots

In sexually repressed cultures where young boys are not taught, or allowed to observe, proper courtship rituals. Apes and humans are the great imitators of behavior, and if they see dysfunctional behaviors again and again, they will continue to propagate those dysfunctional behaviors. If an inexperienced boy sees a young adult male butt-pinching, whistling, yelling "yo, bitches!" at women, he incorrectly assumes that this is successful courtship behavior. One of the side-effects of the Lewinsky affair was the upsurge in teenage oral sex, as boys learned another behavior through observation.

What boys DON'T see enough of is successful courtship behavior, since most romances sold as entertainment are targeted at women and girls. Swashbuckler movies (e.g. 'The Princess Bride') have enough adventure woven in to keep the boys interest, yet still manage to incorporate enough scenes of the leading man getting the girl that boys can learn what is appropriate and what is not. Soft porn which can be found hidden in the higher numbered cable channels is also a good learning tool, but no adult in his right mind would encourage boys to watch such programs as he would be accused of promoting masturbation, gross indecencies with a child, or worse. The current hysteria about child sexuality adds to the problem, as any adult passing along successful courtship behaviors to minors is seen as a child molester.

Frank talking adults, such as the former surgeon general Jocelyn Elders, are too few in American society and poor role models (rap stars, athletes, celebrities with failed relationships, etc.) abound. The situation is somewhat better in countries such as Italy and France, where love and romance are more open and the subject of discussion. To think that proper courtship behavior will just naturally appear is as ignorant a view as to think that young girls will be able to ignore their hormones if you tell them to abstain enough times. But that is the nature of American society as well as the Hindu society the article complains of. Keep children ignorant until they graduate from high school, send them off to college with a couple of cryptic remarks about "not getting into trouble", and then let them learn by trial and error on the college campus.

[Mithreal]

2. Interesting and good points, enjoyed reading. nt

[heliarc]

3. Well said...

Its ironic though -- as much as I love Che -- he wasn't much of a sexual liberation role model. Had some backward ideas about sexual roles if I remember correctly. I'm referring of course to your icon, but I'm sure you're aware of that. Thanks for the thoughtful commentary. As a new dad to a baby girl I think about these issues more and more.

[Teaser]

5. everyone has some backward ideas

if we expect all our heroes to be perfect, we're gonna be left with no heroes at all.

[reorg]

17. You hit the nail right on the head

Where moms are godesses and wifes are cattle, and where everything sexual is tabu, the expression of sexual desire becomes so easily twisted.

The sad thing is that the remedy sought is often -- quite naturally, one might say -- more repression ...

[noamnety]

24. whether or not it's "more repression"

depends on your standpoint.

It's less repressive for women to have some legal recourse, to have the law recognize that they have the right to be in public without being harassed, groped, and otherwise tormented.

As a man, I suppose you could argue that you're being "repressed" by not being allowed to harass women, but that's a very odd notion of repression - to equate it with not being allowed to harass others.

[reorg]

29. NO

Girija Vyas, NCW Chairperson, says:

"Incidents of eve teasing, molestation leave a deep scar in the victims mind in the same way as rape does, so all these crimes (eve teasing, molestation, rape) should be treated equally. The same punishment should be applicable in all forms of crimes, so that women should not be treated as an object of desire."

http://www.headlinesindia.com/archive_html/02January2008_67336.html

The same punishment for all forms of treating women "as an object of desire"? I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. There is a VERY big difference between a whistle on the street and rape. And there is not much I can do about it if you can't see that.

I call it repression if you are unreasonably and disproportionately punished, even if your behaviour was patently obnoxious and wrong. 7 years in prison for "eve-teasing"? One obvious "recourse" for victims/recipients of its milder forms may be to tell the perpetrators in no uncertain terms what you think of them and what they are.

I am not at all against harsh measures. How about mandatory sex education? Zero tolerance to the censoring and beeping out of words in song lyrics and speech? A recklessly liberal attitude towards showing naked skin in public? More straight talk about sex? If the feminist movement in India could bring themselves to embrace such measures, they could go a long way to prevent the pathetic "eve-teasing". I am not pulling this out of my nose. All of this has happened in Europe, as far as I can tell there has been a huge change in attitudes since the sixties.

[noamnety]

33. Such a classic exchange.

"It depends on your standpoint."

"NO."

Well, that just sums up male entitlement, privilege, so many things all in one shot. Just 2 days ago, I got an email from a good friend talking about exactly this phenomenon. He writes: "I still struggle with how to make more accessible the subtle but critical argument that neutrality/objectivity is essentially masculine."

Here we have women who have lived the experience saying it induces trauma, it leaves deep emotional scars, it's repressive, it's threatening. But the male "objective" viewpoint is to deny the actual experiences of women, and tell us that they know better than we do about our own lives. The male "objective" viewpoint is that it would be repressive to force abusers to stop harassing women, and it's less repressive, or not repressive at all, to demand that half the population accepts life in a constant state of harassment and threat.

[reorg]

36. I doubt that draconian laws will change anything

It's not like nobody ever cared if the "honor" of a woman was attacked by "eve-teasing" -- it has led to murderous riots, among other things. If killing the teaser won't stop the habit, do you really think draconian laws would do any good? And doesn't the crime situation in the US show that this approach isn't working?

Wouldn't you agree that it may be more useful to do something about the underlying aggressiveness of these guys -- which you see everywhere, in many little things, not just in the ways they approach the objects of their sexual desire.

[Karenina]

35. NO

:rofl:

"I am not pulling this out of my nose." Stimmt. Fischkopf oder...

[reorg]

37. Please say it in English

What you tried to convey in German doesn't make any sense.

[noamnety]

42. I'm gonna recommend you stick with the German

If a person is incapable of listening, it's of no importance which language you speak in. ;)

[ismnotwasm]

23. That reminds me of a small story

From "Standing Alone" by Asra Q. Nomani (An American Woman's Struggle for the Soul of Islam)

"On public buses in Pakistan, women have small section separated from the larger men's section by a floor to ceiling metal screen. It seemed to me that the segregation only created a hyper-sexual society. When I was eighteen and in Pakistan for the first time, a man poked his finger through the screen into my rib just to feel a woman.
"Sicko" I yelled, scowling, while my older cousins berated him.

This is an excellent book about one Muslim's woman's journey to her Hajj, her gender and religious insights she gained, and offers throughout the book.

Sexual harassment is never ok, no matter what the country you live in is. Young women in the US seem to either put up with it as part of life, think it's a complement, or respond as I used to, with a hearty "fuck off asshole"

Interestingly, as an older women, I'm usually approached with more respect and caution. Not always.

I agree completely with the confusing courtship signals young people pick up.

[noamnety]

26. Your idea of good movies for boys to model troubles me.

And perhaps part of my problem is with the phrases "successful courtship behavior," and "enough scenes of the leading man getting the girl.

Both of these have to do with finding behavior boys can model that relate women to things to be acquired, objects, notches on the belt, rather than having as a goal respect of women as people, and relationships built on that as the ultimate goal, rather than "getting" a woman as the ultimate goal.

The Princess Bride is not a feminist movie. When I say that, I'm not implying that I want to see a flipped script where the men are bashed and the women are victorious - I mean it is not built on the idea of the man and the woman being equal. It's built around the patriarchal concept of men needing to rescue women, of having to be their protectors. Ask yourself, how is the female lead portrayed? This is the best model for relationships you can come up with?

You follow that with the suggestion that soft-porn is also a good model for relationships. Were you thinking women are not already oversexualized and objectified enough? Can you see why this would be an insulting suggestion for a woman to read?

Better suggestions for modeling behavior might be plots where the women are intelligent, accomplished, and capable of solving problems, and the men are intelligent, accomplished, and capable of solving problems (without having to resort to violence) and both characters are looking to work together, as a team, to solve bigger problems than "how can I get myself married" or "how can I get inside her pants."

[izquierdista]

44. Better suggestions

Yeah right, when early teenagers get horny, the first thing they think of is intelligence and problem solving. :rofl: :rofl:

Maybe you have forgotten how horny teenagers get, and what responses and outlets societies allow. When EVERY male advance is treated as a sex crime, you end up with a society in which all sex is a crime. It is basic biology of the human that the male pursues the female, we are not stickleback fish where the female goes around looking for a male with a nice nest so she can drop off her eggs. If society wants to deal effectively with mating competition, to reduce unwanted behaviors, it needs to provide some positive role models. Boys, left to their own devices will see who can whistle the loudest, make the biggest display. If that goes on for too long, with no positive reinforcement of better behaviors by women, then you end up with the society portrayed in the article.

If you were to watch "The Princess Bride" closely, you would see that Wesley treats the princess with respect and deference, while the bad guy treats her as property. I admit that the movie is not the best model for relationships, but it's a positive first step, one that young boys need to learn. If you were also to actually watch some of the soft-porn offerings, you would see that many of the story lines revolve around women who actually enjoy sex and foreplay is emphasized. To see a scene where one woman is actually enjoying sex is not the same as saying that women (as a class of people) are oversexualized and objectified. What young males can learn from watching is the same as what juvenile gorillas learn from watching silverbacks in the jungle -- what behaviors will make the female respond in a positive manner.

The problem is two-sided, not only do boys have few models of successful courtship behavior, but girls have few options when it comes to reinforcing behaviors that they like. Girls are often bombarded by comments from twits that they should not express their sexuality, to do so would be slutty or that they are being objectified, but rather work on being intelligent and solving problems together as a team. Such muddled thinking puts building a long-term relationship ahead of whether or not there is a physical attraction.

Again I will invoke an example from a Latin culture, that of the walk around the zocalo common in Hispanic cultures. There, the boys walk in one direction and the girls sit or walk in the other direction. This allows for plenty of eye-contact and smiles to be exchanged before anything is actually said. The boy learns that there are certain allowed behaviors that are advances, which the girl can accept or decline. And maybe, maybe if the advance is met with a flirtatious acceptance, the two can take the first step to what may turn out to be a "relationship".

[reorg]

45. What American puritans probably don't know

In India even Valentine's Day is considered part of a foreign, rotten culture: true Indian conservatives do not encourage such evils as romantic love or, god forbid, holding hands in public. This is the one topic where Islamist and Hindu fascists are peacefully united against Western degenerates.

[Orsino]

4. Rude people on the street shouldn't be imprisoned...

...unless they cross the line into stalking and physical harrassment.

[pattmarty]

6. Agree. Ya know, the left can also get "carried away" on certain punishments also.

[DavidDvorkin]

7. Agreed. That punishment is unjustified.

[noamnety]

8. Collectively, it is a sort of stalking

We tend to think of stalking as one person putting another in a position where they can't go out, ever, without being followed and maybe harassed. But if men as a group each do their small part in that, creating a sort of paparazzi effect where women can't walk freely in public, isn't the net effect the same?

I'm thinking of my daughter here, who won't walk to the store a half mile away because she cannot get from here to there, ever, without being harassed. When she was in junior high, (she told me this years later), there was never a single day that she walked home from school without being yelled at. Sometimes just the day to day business to getting from here to there is like running the gauntlet, every day, for young women.

Either we accept that it is right and normal, and women should just accept this as their lot in life - as part of their lower status, or we decide it's not acceptable. Devil's advocate here - What if we got rid of drug laws for marijuana and replaced them with anti-harassment laws?

[Orsino]

9. I don't know how to prosecute collectively...

...unless we can prove the existence of a conspiracy. Even hundreds of people making individual catcalls, while bothersome, don't constitute stalking or harrassment. This behavior is a symptom of a much larger, if nebulous problem: a lack of respect. We can educate people out of that, and until then (when all God's chilluns got shoes) we should prosecute whenever anyone commits actionable offenses.

[noamnety]

10. I don't think calling it "a lack of respect" gets to the root of it.

I prefer to call it sexism, or male supremacy.

We don't whitewash racism by calling it a "lack of respect" when a white person yells the N word at a black person. We label it for what it is, because until we do that, we can't really address it as part of a system of upholding power and oppression.

[Orsino]

11. Well, isn't that lack of respect?

:shrug:

If it doesn't rise to the level of a hate crime, or a conspiracy to commit a hate crime, I don't think it needs prosecution.

[noamnety]

12. It goes beyond a lack of respect.

Lack of respect on its own is just being inconsiderate or oblivious to how your actions affect others on an individual basis.

That's a very different thing than acting out supremacy rituals. Whether they are related to white supremacy or male supremacy or hetero supremacy is a way of controlling entire classes of people to maintain your position of privilege and control over them. Harassing women because they are out in public without a burqa, that's more than just individual rudeness. We don't wear burqas generally in this culture, excepting of course specific communities. But we still send that message: If you are out in public with your body shape visible, other people are entitled to harass, threaten and demean you, and you have no recourse. If you don't like it, stay home. If you insist on going out, you need to STFU and accept it, it's what you were born into.

We protect the rights of people who hold power in this country, and when someone without it demands basic human rights, like the right to walk down a public street without being verbally assaulted, we portray them as infringing upon the rights of others.

[Orsino]

18. I'm not getting the distinction you're making.

What you say sounds reasonable, if not a basic human right. Certainly it's the sort of respect civilized people ought to give one another.

[apocalypsehow]

22. yes 100% agree

As a man myself one of the hardest things to wrap my mind around was the privilege I had for the mere fact of being male. Part of my education into progressive politics was recognizing and accepting this, and working to fight it. The Patriarchy runs so deep in our culture that even men who think of themselves as "liberal" and "progressive" still cling to that part of their privilege ferociously. Not all, by any stretch of the imaginiation, but far too many.

edited poor grammar

[alfredo]

15. Ask the offenders if they'd like their mothers treated that way.

[dysfunctionalmother]

34. A Year Ago

A year ago this weekend my very innocent, now 16 year old daughter experienced the inevitable realization that as a female she is vulnerable. Gone were the proclamations of, "If any one tries to....I will..." She was in a grocery store and ran into someone she knew. They hugged. Then his friend came to hug her. She was confused and thought maybe she just didn't recognize this other kid. He proceeded to grab her behind and hold on to her so tight she couldn't pull away. When finally let go, he ran off laughing. She has had trouble ever since - anxiety, depression, weight loss, panic attacks and still can't go into that store by herself. She's talked to local police working at the high school. The first one basically said. "Boys will be boys." The second one asked if maybe the boy was just trying to "please her". The boy she knew wouldn't tell her the name of his friend and now denies he was even there that day.

Other than a great counselor she found at a Sexual Assault Resource Center, the reaction of most people is, "Get over it. It's so minor." Sadly, many times I've thought the same thing, not because I believe it but it would be so much easier. But that kid stole from her - replacing whatever sense of security and faith she had in people and replaced it with the constant awareness of vulnerability women carry with them everyday. How can I ever look her in the eye and say that's ok?

[izquierdista]

47. Dealing with pitiful behavior

I'm curious, did the counselor point out that we are not responsible and shouldn't feel bad for other people's inappropriate behavior? Had he been drunk when they met and puked on her shoes, would she have the same anxiety, depression, etc.? Has she since realized that if other people do inappropriate, unacceptable things to us, we shouldn't feel guilty about it ourselves?

Yes, because the inappropriate behavior was sexual in nature, that opens a whole new set of anxieties about sexuality into the picture. Did you point out that this kid obviously doesn't know what comes between an introduction and a hug of a sexual nature? In all likelihood, no one has ever told him, and he hasn't picked up on what steps need to go in the middle. Teen boys are very awkward on the subject of hugs. They associate them with sex, not friendship. A 12 year old boy will be glad to see grandma and give her a hug, and then a couple months later, when puberty sets in, he will refuse to do so. Receiving an unexpected hug from someone they just met sets off all sorts of buttons. Many of the buttons will be to inappropriate responses, just as you described. If I think back, I could have reacted similarly, maybe when I was 13 or 14. I probably would have grown out of it by 16 though.

Is your daughter able to see now that this was awkward juvenile male behavior? That's what the phrase "boys will be boys" means, that "awkward juvenile males will exhibit awkward juvenile male behaviors". Is she still able to hug men and feel that sense of security and faith in people you describe? (I mean men comfortable with their sexuality, not adult in body but still juvenile in mind.) Do you think that the boy needs to be punished for this behavior? If so, how does that change this one individual boy's behavior in the future?

[ThomCat]

28. If that rudeness is epidemic (and it is) then the only way to stop it

is to punish the behavior until people get the message that it really, truly won't be tolerated.

So, while in general I agree that rudeness is not illegal, in cases where that rudeness is everywhere, more or less constant, and degrades the lives of half the population I'm willing to make an exception.

[struggle4progress]

13. Eve Teasing

It's the same story every day. You step on the street in the morning and jump out of your skin as a car hurtles towards you and swerves just before smashing you to a pulp. The driver laughs evilly ..... You .. get into an autorickshaw .... The rickshaw driver adjusts his rear view mirror to get a better look at you .... Two men on a scooter peek into the autorickshaw, decide they like what they see and follow you around for a few minutes ... staring lecherously and giggling excitedly till the autorickaw driver .. waves them off. You reach office and as you're about to enter the gate, a cyclist comes out of nowhere, slaps you on your butt and cycles off ....

http://www.indiaparenting.com/raisingchild/data/raisingchild203.shtml

[struggle4progress]

14. Ogled, groped and assaulted: all part of Indian women’s everyday life

Male behaviour under scrutiny on subcontinent
From Raymond Thibodeaux in New Delhi

... In an incident that rattled the country, dozens of young men taunted and groped two girls as they left a New Year's Eve party in Mumbai. An Indian newspaper photographer who was nearby called the police - and recorded the melee in a series of shocking images that ran in almost every major newspaper in the country, launching a flurry of editorials about the treatment of women ...

In India, groping a woman in public is called "Eve-teasing," a benign, almost playful epithet for a form of sexual harassment that women more often consider traumatic ...

http://www.sundayherald.com/international/shinternational/display.var.1979136.0.ogled_groped_and_assaulted_all_part_of_indian_womens_everyday_life.php

[struggle4progress]

16. Blank Noise website

http://bp2.blogger.com.nyud.net:8090/_NeiopOhFSss/R4pXAMCqi8I/AAAAAAAAAfo/13tLtnsgcFU/s400/amul+ad.jpg

... The women ... emerged from the JW Marriott with two male friends around 1.45 am, and began walking towards Juhu beach close by. A mob of about 40 got after them and began teasing the women ... They trapped the women near a vehicle and a tree, and pounced on them. A man in a white shirt tore off the black dress ...

http://blog.blanknoise.org/

<edit: link>

[Quantess]

19. I wish they'd had a law like that

in the Mission District of San Francisco when I lived there.

[gaspee]

20. Harmless teasing?

Yeah, right.

Women have to put up with this crap from the time they are 11 or so, depending when they start to develop breasts. Any complaints are met with oh, boys will be boys!

How's this scenario? It's all of a sudden OK in society to be gay and or bisexual and men start treating other men how they treat women. Oh and they're supposed to be grateful for the attention. It's harmless fun! Right. There would be street brawls. Who the hell likes to be treated like prey? Who wants to be leered at, shouted at, detained against their will, made to feel like meat? Oh that's right, women like that shit! So what happens when men treat other men that way?

Like that will *ever* happen. Right there is your reason for society, especially male society, to be anti-gay. If men had to put up with this kind of treatment from other men, they might have to reconsider how they treat women.

Yet women are supposed to take it as a compliment, right?

If I lived in India I would either carry a mini tazer or a sharp pointy metal rod. I would stick the little asswipes who came close enough to touch me. For the verbal shit there's not much you can do. It's a lose/lose situation for women. Ignore or respond, you lose.

We all have had this happen to us. None of us liked it. Why don't men think about that for a minute. We don't like it. Yet you continue to do it.

Oh, right. You don't give a shit. it's your god-given right as a male to harass women. We *know* you look at us and think about fucking us. We know you reduce us to our component parts. We know how you think of us. We don't like it. But you won't stop doing it. Oh, I forgot, you can't *help* it. OK, so who hates men? The women who say we know you can treat us as real human beings with feelings, or the people who say men just can't help acting like animals?

All use of the word "you" is the general you and not the specific you. And because it's not assumed, I have to say. I am not talking about or addressing all men. Just the perps. Do you know how much it kills me to have to make this disclaimer? Because if I don't, this will devolve into an "I am not like that!" flamefest. Sigh.

[Raine]

21. TOTALLY agree

this kind of "teasing" is nothing but males showing their dominance of women and in effect telling them that they can "have" them anytime, anywhere that they want. I always found it dehumanizing, demoralizing and actually frightening, nothing flattering about it whatsoever! :mad: :grr:

[superconnected]

39. so men should be put in prison a minimum of 7 years for winking or whistling?

Stocking is something altogether different but I wouldn't trust these crazies to define the term "stocking". It may mean following her for 5 feet, since it holds the same 7 year sentence as winking.

[reorg]

41. definition of stalking

"As per the amendment proposed by NCW, a person shall be taken to stalk a woman if on at least three occasions the person follows or approaches the woman, loiters near her, watches, approaches or enters a place where she resides, works or visits, keeps her under surveillance or interferes with a possession of her's."

http://news.indiainfo.com/2005/11/06/0611stalking-women-seven-years-jail.html

[Tansy_Gold]

25. So harmless, in fact, that it's perfectly all right for someone

to yell at Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, "IRON MY SHIRT!" and get laughs, but you know damn well that if someone yelled at Senator Barack Obama, "SHINE MY SHOES!" there'd be no end to the outrage.


Goodbye To All That (#2) by Robin Morgan

http://www.womensmediacenter.com/ex/020108.html

<snip>
Carl Bernstein's disgust at Hillary’s “thick ankles.” Nixon-trickster Roger Stone’s new Hillary-hating 527 group, “Citizens United Not Timid” (check the capital letters). John McCain answering “How do we beat the bitch?" with “Excellent question!” Would he have dared reply similarly to “How do we beat the black bastard?” For shame.

Goodbye to the HRC nutcracker with metal spikes between splayed thighs. If it was a tap-dancing blackface doll, we would be righteously outraged—and they would not be selling it in airports. Shame.

. . .

Goodbye to the sick, malicious idea that this is funny. This is not “Clinton hating,” not “Hillary hating.” This is sociopathic woman-hating. If it were about Jews, we would recognize it instantly as anti-Semitic propaganda; if about race, as KKK poison. Hell, PETA would go ballistic if such vomitous spew were directed at animals. Where is our sense of outrage—as citizens, voters, Americans?


<end snip>


Whether you call it eve-teasing, stalking, harassment, it's a form of terrorism. Every woman who has walked down a dark street, to a car in a parking garage, who has opened the door to her home or apartment after an absence and wondered, just for a half second, if it's safe to go in -- every woman who has ever been afraid is a victim (flame me if you like, but that's the word that applies) of terrorism.

I'm a widow, almost 60 years old. A few weeks ago, a friend's husband (he's not quite 65) walked up behind me at an outdoor coffee shop and put his arm around my shoulders and gave me a peck on the cheek. I instinctively pulled away from him. I had never given him any indication that I would welcome such an intimate gesture. He challenged me on my refusal to go along with his "teasing," and I privately told him I just thought it wasn't an appropriate thing to do. He said, "Aw, c'mon, I'm only teasin', and you know you like it. All women do."

"I *don't* like it," I told him, and by the look on his face when I did so, he probably had NEVER had a woman rebuff his "teasing" before. "Don't do it again."

I was able to do that because I am fortunate enough to live in a culture where he would not have proceeded further. For women in other cultures, the harassment is worse, and the terror they feel is much worse.

Tansy Gold

[mbperrin]

30. Yes, this is terrible.

Our daughter, now in her 30s, went to junior high at a large urban campus where the boys felt free to yell various invites and critiques to the girls. Our daughter came up with her response on her own. She would yell back while looking directly at the perp, "Sorry, I'm not gay!" Most often, the perp responded with something like "Hey, I'm a guy!" Cue a confused look on her face and a quieter, "Oh, sorry, I couldn't tell." After a number of other girls took their cues from there, this type of harassment became very uncommon there. It took about 3 months to be effective.

[ThomCat]

27. It's the great irony that if a guy is subjected to the same "harmless"

behavior it's considered justification for gay-bashing. No guy, apparently, should be subject to the same behavior that women are supposed to accept as a normal part of life.

You're absolutely right. If guys had to deal with it daily the same way women do, it would be illegal across the board.

[reorg]

31. I don't think so

I HAVE been subjected to similar obnoxious behaviour as a guy. Between 15 and 21 I was kinda cute looking, with very long, curly hair and everything - which was the exception at the time, and many gay men (probably closet cases) saw this as a direct invitation to accost me, touch me, stalk me - on the open street, in their car (I was hichhiking quite often), and when I rejected their advances they sometimes became quite ugly. Several times I was sexually attacked, one time while I was asleep. I'm not saying this is comparable to what many women have to endure in some societies. But I have never ever considered to take this to the police, nor would I have liked to be able to. I didn't even become a gay-basher ... just realized there are a number of pathetic cretins out there, and in many cases I could even understand how and why the ended up doing what they did.

[Karenina]

32. Did you READ what you wrote???

:freak:

[superconnected]

38. 7 years in prison for whistling or winking at women? She's psycho.

[superconnected]

40. "Your honor, he winked at me!"... okay, I just didn't like his loud walking on

the floorboards upstairs in his apt so I saw this as a way to get rid of him.

[NaturalHigh]

43. Not only should the winker do jail time...

but the witness who saw him wink too? Dang...what is this woman smoking?

[reorg]

46. Saffron, radical groups protest against Valentine’s Day

New Delhi (The Hindu, 15 Feb 2008): Even as Valentine’s Day was celebrated across the country, there were protests in several places by saffron and radical groups, who said it was an “alien culture.”

Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray termed the occasion “a rotten imported culture thriving on the neo-rich with easy money to squander.” He asked the Sainiks to oppose the celebrations, which were “encouraged by commercial considerations.”

There were protests by the Sena, the Bajrang Dal, the Akhil Bhartiya Maratha Mahasangh and the Students Islamic Organisation, among others, in Kolkata, Delhi, Indore, Mumbai and Coimbatore.

In Srinagar, radical women’s group Dukhtaran-e-Millat conducted “peaceful raids” on restaurants and shops and asked lovers to leave those places.

more ...

[DuaneBidoux]

48. It can be offensive if unwanted but I hate to see winking categorized with stalking.

I do tend to think there is a bit of difference.