DK supporting Edwards

[joeprogressive]

On MSNBC now

[Ediacara]

1. Is he quitting?

Or is this a caucus deal? Any other info?

[Jerseycoa]

11. Not quitting

If DK doesn't get 15% of a caucus he's asking his supporters at caucuses to throw their support behind Edwards.

[Ediacara]

14. ok, I understand

the original post was, uh, more than a little vague.

[dusty64]

36. Wow this is

a surprise. I certainly never thought he would throw his endorsement to someone who supported the "war", does anyone know his reasoning? None the less, I'm sorry to see him go. In many ways he was truly the most progressive candidates.

[ahimsa]

56. politics over ideology!

I think it's a survival strategy. I think he has to make sure that his supporters don't give too much traction to the other "leaders" of the pack (Dean, Kerry) in the upcoming primaries as they come out of Iowa. I would guess that Edwards is not polling as well in NH? The alternative would have been Sharpton.

I'm not sure of Edwards' war stance - although there was this from Oct. 2001 (I would assume he's done some more thinking about it since then) in the Daily Howler a few weeks ago:

(http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh010604.shtml)
-------------------

O’REILLY: You know, we’re all together now on the Taliban except for Phil Donahue and a few people who are on the fringe, but 90 percent of Americans are with the president. But then, when this war widens, and it will—

EDWARDS: Yes.

O’REILLY: —and Saddam Hussein comes into play, and maybe Libya and maybe Syria and maybe the Sudan, and maybe even Iran—when all these come into play, are we going to be as united as we are now?

EDWARDS: Oh, I think we will be.

O’REILLY: Really!

EDWARDS: Yeah, I think, I think—

O’REILLY: You guys aren’t going to give Bush a hard time?

EDWARDS: I think that we will be united with the president throughout this war on terrorism, Bill. I absolutely believe that.

-------------------

(edited to note that I can't find this story on MSNBC.com - hmm)

[saskatoon]

74. Libya,Syria,Sudan, Iran!

What an absolute ahole! Doesn't surprise me coming from O'reilly but for anyone to sit and listen to that crap and not answer with a few expletives and tell the nut off is beyond me and to think I liked Edwards. What an ass!

[loyalsister]

73. Maybe it's because

they were both poor once. I hope not, but I'm thinking it could be some of the reverse snobbery I have seen with many people. "Only a person who has been poor or is from a working class background is qualified." As someone who IS poor, I find that whole idea offensive. People who aren't born rich aren't inherently pure, talented, and able to relate to people well. To consider oneself better because of a history of poverty or lack of wealth is exactly the same as aritocratic thinking.

[Skinner]

2. Whoa!

This just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser.

[mike1963]

3. As I understand, whichever one gets the fewer "votes" will support the oth

the other. I don't quite grasp the 'viability' threshold business.
:eyes:

[tishaLA]

7. It's the 15% needed in a precinct

IIRC

[newsguyatl]

4. kucinich

supporting a war enabler?

interesting indeed.

[greatauntoftriplets]

5. That's what I thought.

???

[Ediacara]

6. Ya....

That's what I was thinking.... Why would DK support one of the more conservative candidates?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. Two words

SOCIAL POLICY

[DuctapeFatwa]

59. I don't think so. Gephardt is the only one besides Kucinich with a health

care plan that is more than hot air. It will be interesting to find out what the deal is.

edit to try again to spell Gephartd or Gephardt.

I note that he has not taken a position on the question of annoying silent consonants in candidate surnames, clearly missing a key opportunity to form a coalition with Kucinich on the wider issue of candidates with generally difficult to spell names.

[JohnKleeb]

12. If you have seen the daily show episode where he is interviewed

You will find out the two men are friends. Edwards sorta has a simliar domestic policy to him. I've been liking Edwards as of late myself. Personally, my go to candiate after DK was and is Kerry but Ive been impressed with Edwards too. Personally where are all you now who says he would go green :). I am ok with Dennis doing this.

[Jerseycoa]

15. Yes, the responsible thing nt

[Ediacara]

32. my point John was that DK

had run a campaign that ammounted to, "I am the only true anti-war candidate and those other three-to-five anti-war candidates are just pretenders."

And then he goes around and supports one of the most vociferously pro-war candidates. It's odd is all....

ON EDIT: to add that I know there's more to DK and JE than just the war and I do like them both, but I just found it odd that the aparent centerpiece of DK's campaign aparently wasn't that big of a deal in the end.

[JohnKleeb]

39. Well ok

Of course theres more to DK than just the war lol, god you think I support him only because of that. It is interesting but hey at least I can give a big FU to all those jerks lol who say he wuold go green.:shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. Then you have not looked at his whole campaign

Because of the war issue, some people seem to think that Howard Dean is the only viable alternative for DK supporters.

Not true.

While the war is an important issue, what will really flush our country down the toilet is our screwed up economic and social policies, the widening gap between rich and poor, the export of good jobs to foreign countries, and the attempts to dismantle what little social safety net we have.

Howard Dean is lacking on these issues.

Kucinich and Edwards are both poor boys who successfully climbed the ladder to national positions. Neither one has forgotten his roots.

When it comes to feeling simpatico, I would guess that the similarities in background are more important than any one issue.

[Ediacara]

49. I think you're misunderstanding what I was saying

I know Dennis is for social justice, it's just MY perception that his campain was 110% "I am the only viable anti-war candidate and those other three to five anti-war candidates are just pretenders."

I have read DU for 2.5 years, I have read a lot of Dennis' press stories and other info, and I am not an uneducated ocassional voter. Dennis seemed to be centering his own campaign on the war issue, and I just thought it was ironic that he chose to stand with someone who was pro-war (as well as for social justice) when it came down to it.

Just ironic, just a little odd. That's all.

[Tinoire]

76. He wasn't ventering his entire campaign on the war- the media was

Look at his positions again. It's a lot more than the war--- it centers around the issues that cause the need for these wars.

[0rganism]

70. Maybe he appreciated Edwards' honesty

With so many candidates waffling over their war positions, I could see two with clear, even if opposed, views coming together.

On the other hand, maybe it's just a way to reduce the dominance of the front-runners to keep one of them in the race.

[Tinoire]

75. You've missed the entire point then

I am 100% anti-Iraq (all 13 years of it to include Clinton & Gore's contribution), anti-Yugoslavia, anti-Columbia, anti-Afghanistan, anti-Israel/Palestine. Dean latched on to one of those issues and people believe him. Dean is not anti-Iraq war, he's anti-the-way Bush went about it. People like Dean and Clinton would have gotten us into this war just as much as Bush did, just as much as Clark, Kerry, Gephardt or Edwards would have- it just would have been done with more finesse. We didn't go to war because Saddaam gased the Kurds (which has been proven false) nor did we go because he allegedly had WMDs (a lie also supported by the Clinton administration). We warred against Iraq because they weren't towing our line on Israel (another Anglo-venture in the Middle East) and because they have oil we desperately need. Without that oil our system comes to a crashing halt because there is nothing else backing the dollar- especially as the Europeans push the Euro which is knocking us down even lower. Bush didn't just go to war for Halliburton. He went to war for the American way of life and until the day that we are willing to change that way of life and become simpler, more self-sustaining and less coercing towards other nations that are forced to subsidize us, nothing can change because that need for oil will always be there and no one wants to prop us up for free anymore. We got a little too arrogant in our imperialism.

It's very easy to say you're anti-war when the blood starts flowing and your conscience is bothered but it doesn't mean squat unless you are willing to do what it takes to prevent wars. In this case, it means gradually changing our entire system until the point where we won't need the mighty military muscle to back up the economic wars when they don't work against countries resisting our corporate globalization of the world. Kucinich's anti-war stance isn't the center-piece of his campaign. Justice is. And that balanced sense of justice is sorely lacking in the campaigns of the other candidates

To pretend that Howard Dean is an anti-war candidate and should be given a free pass for his centrist support of corporations and the American way of life that leads to wars is to totally misunderstand what being anti-war and even anti-Iraq war is. Additionally, it's ludicrous to say you're anti-war but pro-occupation. Occupation is nothing more than low-intensity war-fare.

To pretend that being anti-war is the apparent centerpiece of Kucinich's campaign is to misunderstand his campaign entirely. The center-piece is justice. And justice is always balanced, a continual balancing act.

It's really nothing odd about it.

[Dhalgren]

82. Well said, Tinoire.

DK's campaign has always been of a whole cloth. We must become a better nation, a better people. We must support justice, fairness, and world citizenship at home and abroad. We have to start behaving as adults - honest, fair-minded adults - before we lose everything we consider ourselves to be. Kucinich has never been a "one issue" candidate.

[lostnfound]

87. Very, very well said.

Thanks for the reminder.

[prolesunited]

35. I don't see Edwards as conservative

What positions does he have that makes you think that?

[Ediacara]

37. See my post #32

for clarification.

[JoFerret]

45. Support (of whatever kind) for the war

is not the only issue in politics. There are other measures. The political spectrum has other colors, other issues. Dean for example, on many of those other issues is veritably conservative.
I am beginning to think that a Kerry/ Edwards ticket maybe the most electable and also provide a solid counterweight to any Bush

[Ediacara]

52. but it seemed that Dennis' ENTIRE campaign WAS the war

And yes, I know there is more to Dennis and his campaign than that, it's just that it was the only thing I ever heard from him or his DU supporters.

[Tinoire]

77. No- We talked about globalization, wages, poverty, genetically modified

foods, health-care, pollution, etc...but those threads always sunk because not many people here care about these issues anymore. And to be frank, the newer DU members we have don't seem to care about those issues anymore. But they're there. Even mad cow was addressed from a Kucinich justice point of view because he's been fighting the corporate industrialized farms for a long time (why do you think Willie Nelson went to bat for him? That was all for the farmers, Farm Aid) but nobody wanted to listen. All we heard from people, and even from you I believe, was that DK is a fringe leftist. That showed us you hadn't looked at him at all or what he stood for.

You heard what you wanted to hear. This is why you're not understanding the affinity between many Kucinich supporters and people like Edwards and Kerry.

The best thing Dean has going for him is, imo, most of his supporters (not all, some are real non-thinking a-holes) and the populist movement they've put together. If I ever back Dean, it will be for that reason and that reason only. To be part of a populist movement that sticks it to the DLC. I don't think I will ever like Dean, I'm not thrilled with any of his positions because they don't go very deep but if Dean is the movement behind him, I can hop on board passionately- for the movement, not for Dean. For issues, there are other candidates whose positions I prefer to his. It's the balance I'm looking for and- if Kucinich doesn't make it, I'm going to have to spend a lot of time soul-searching. And all of that is said with 100% anti-war, Liberal conviction.

[Zhade]

79. Amen.

Very well-said, as usual.

[tlcandie]

80. Tinoire ... I read Edwards' book ....

After reading it...I would go to bat for him! I think THAT (what you get from reading his book)...his heart is why Kucinich backs him. I believe he knows that he would not screw the people over and is TRULY interested in the people!

You can overlook a LOT if someone can take care of his own people. War is NOT ever good and I think that Edwards would not be gungho for it.

He's always fought for the underdog and I can't see him changing that! Kucinich supporter here, but will back EDWARDS in a heartbeat and even moreso with Kucinich's nod!!

[joeunderdog]

85. I'm with you on your points. In a word, he's "trustworthy."

He hasn't been bought and paid for. He means what he says and without the doublespeak political polish that pisses me off about Kerry sometimes (although not as much recently).

Edwards is electable because he has Jimmy Carter Honesty with duke-it-out-with-the-big-boys experience. His life story is the American Dream in many ways. He can win southern states because of his roots and because he will appeal to FAMILY VALUES kinds of people in the Bible belt. No foreign policy experience, but what can Bush really brag about there? Stick Clark on the ticket and you've got a real chance.

[Terwilliger]

40. very troubling

[Guaranteed]

64. I don't get it.

The one thing that I have agreed with the Republicans on is that Edwards is just an empty suit. He's a trial lawyer- and that's exactly what he seems like.

[kanrok]

69. Get bit by a trial lawyer in your youth?

What exactly does a trial lawyer seem like? Please elaborate.

[0rganism]

71. If you ever go on trial, I hope your lawyer is more than an empty suit

I hope your lawyer has at least half the charisma and wit of John Edwards.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. I guess I am a bit perplexed

DK was very much the anti-war candidate although he has not played this to the division of the party in the manner that Dean has.

I am simply surprised (but not displeased) that he chose Edwards given Edwards voted for IWR...it will be interesting to see the response in GD04.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Some of us like Edwards NSMA

In fact DesertRose met him and was very impressed. Personally I like that son of a millworker.

[GreenArrow]

well, I guess I'm a little displeased

why not let his supporters figure out who they want to go to instead of offering support to a candidate whose positions are radically different from your own; death penalty, drug war, "war on Terra", IWR, NAFTA, and so on. Not like there is much choice among the remaing 7 though.

[Tinoire]

78. It was just a strategic cooperation

No one offered supporters to anyone. A little strategic swapping was done to fight a system where thousands were flown in and strategically dispersed throughout the state. JE and DK just wanted to make sure each could cover as many hills as possible and with a little cooperation they were able to do that.


Good for both of them I say.

[Trajan]

24. I think that 'anti war sentiment' ...

... plays a variable role in the minds of Democrats as a whole: .. some placing more weight on it than others ...

It's so easy to get confused by what "Anti-War" means in every instance: ... I am generally anti-war, though I would support war in extreme instances where going to war is ABSOLUTELY necessary, and with the overwhelming consensus of our fellow human beings ...

One neednt be completely pacificist, to reject war in general ...

One also neednt be completely anti-war to reject the fraud of the justification provided by the Bush/PNAC cabal to engage Iraq ... One can hold both positions with constistency ...

I am surprised by this development though ...

Who'd have thought ??? ...

[Jerseycoa]

9. Very interesting

What did he give as his reasons? It's coming over now again. MSNBC. Amazing. Embeds from both campaigns reported it.

[NNN0LHI]

16. Whodathunk? DK wants Bush beat as bad as I do

He knows what he is doing.

Don

[wtmusic]

17. DK was so emphatically antiwar

it's a bit strange. He may lose some of his base to Dean.

[JohnKleeb]

19. We have the war issue yes but domestic issues

:shrug:
I am sure some of us will go Dean, I wont personally.

[wtmusic]

33. On domestic issues it will be a tough combo to beat

there is a lot of talent out there. With *'s numbers dropping like a brick things are looking pretty good for Nov.

[shanti]

63. can you even vote?

i thought you were under 18?

[radfringe]

18. heard about it early this morning

at that time is was just reported as a "rumor"

according to the "then rumor" DK supporters were to call campaign headquarters AFTER the first round of votes and request instructions

I had guessed that DK would stay in therace until at least after NH - but if he's already postioning his supporters to throw in behind Edwards then I think he will drop out BEFORE NH

[bspence]

20. Geez, you could have typed out his NAME!

DK = Dennis Kucinich. Who knew? It only took me about ten posts before I figured it out.

[LifeDuringWartime]

26. ditto

i hate all of the abbrevs. used here



;)

[joeprogressive]

31. Who knew it?

Everyone on this board minus one. However, I will clarify just for you next time. My apologies.

[bspence]

34. No problem

I don't bother to read Dennis Kucinich articles, because he doesn't have a snowball's chance. I read this site tons, but I don't get into the abbreviations (and I'm certainly not the only one). It's fine for inside the thread, but not in the subject line.

I learned all I need to know from Kucinich long ago, and I don't agree with some of his politics. I think we've got better guys out there (like Edwards). I think this will be good for John.

[jenk]

21. An official endorsement?

Thanks Dennis!

this could really help once the Kucinich caucus goers have to break up, I don't really know what kind of volume he's going to get. But if he pulls in 3%, and that 3% follow his lead and go for Edwards, it can really make a difference!

[0007]

22. Who'd a thought?

?

[boxster]

23. Reading the posts so far, I'm surprised....

Several people are commenting as though the war is Dennis' only issue and that Edwards' stance on the war should preclude him from Dennis' support.

There are other issues in this campaign, folks. Obviously, Dennis took other factors into consideration before making this statement. Not everyone is picking Dean or Kucinich solely because of their stances on the war in Iraq.

[JohnKleeb]

25. Its far from it

I like DK a lot for his domestic issues. I am totally cool with this although I prefer Kerry to Edwards of the so called big 4.

[alfredo]

29. It is good long term too. Edwards is a southerner.

We need the south. If Kerry gets the nod, a strong showing by Edwards may convince Kerry to consider Edwards for the veep position.

DK did the right thing by giving the boost to Edwards.
Always liked Edwards. He seems like a very dynamic personality.

[joeunderdog]

86. "This war is destroying our domestic agenda."

That was DK's message. That the war diminishes our chance to carry out the things that are critical for a strong America. He stressed that the war was not an event unto itself, that it's impact will kill our schools and programs and future. Lots of people aparently missed the point.

[Ernesto]

27. LINK?

[CivilRightsNow]

28. I love DK..

and Edwards is my second choice. So, it works out fantastically.

[CabalBuster]

30. Co-authored the Patriot Act Too

This is baffling, given that Kucinich has always been a principled guy. Edwards is a pro-war, pro-establishment, DLC candidate but in *soft* packing.

[kysrsoze]

68. Agreed. I think Edwards tells people what they want to hear

With the exception of minority rights, he doesn't seem very progresive at all.

[Ediacara]

38. NO LINK?

Nothing so far at MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WP or Kucinich and Edwards' sites.

Is there word on TV from someone actually in the campaigns or just reporters quoting campaign insiders?

[NNN0LHI]

41. Its being reported live on MSNBC right now n/t

[Ediacara]

43. by whom though?

I trust you that it's being reported, I am just looking for more meat, and at present there's nothing.

The reason I asked if it's reporters quoting unnamed "campaign insiders," or if it's actually someone in a campaign saying it, is just me trying to satisfy the amount of trust I'll give to the story.

[JohnKleeb]

44. I think they were shown together or something

I found out through a friend via AIM, no TV in here.

[Ediacara]

47. ok thanks John (and Don)!

That's what I was looking for, now let's hope that an actual print story is upcoming, to help explain the questions that have been asked in this thread.

[NNN0LHI]

53. I think the lady identified herself as the Iowa Democratic Caucus Kahuna..

...or something similar to that?

Don

[Shrek]

50. Here's a link!

Just posted in the media forum.

[Ediacara]

57. sweet

thanks

[Terwilliger]

42. This is not good

Did Dennis say why he supported Edwards?

[jenk]

55. it's not good, it's great!

[Leilani]

62. I just heard

they have become friends on the campaign trail & like each other.
Imagine that; some humanity in the middle of all this cutthroat politicking.

[blindpig]

48. he's gaming the system

if DK can't get the votes himself it makes sence to deny those votes to the frontrunners. Keeps the field more even for later in the game.

[jobycom]

54. Whether or not that is his strategy

I agree with you that it will work that way. The longer the top of the field battles each other, the more people will get bored with all of them, and that could help Kucinich.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say DK might be supporting Edwards for social reasons. It still doesn't mean he's not aware of the political strategy involved.

[Guaranteed]

65. That's EXACTLY it.

He's drawing the race out, hurting everyone.

Way to go, DK and Edwards. Way to go.

[blindpig]

66. hurting everyone?

I presume you've got tickets to (fill in the blank)'s corination. Jeez, give the people a chance to vote. You might be surprised.

[Waistdeep]

51. This is not "support"

Whether or not Kucinich and Edwards are friends, whether or not they have similar positions on some issues, this is not Kucinich "supporting" Edwards.

It is a strategic bargain, plain and simple. They both gain from it. Both will end up with more state delegates than they would have without the bargain. Edwards gains more delegates than Kucinich does, but Kucinich avoids an almost total shutout, and gets some representation at the state level (and some influence on the platform).

In short, a no brainer.

[CheshireCat]

60. Correct, Waistdeep!

This is strategy, pure and simple! DK and JE and their teams hope to keep the race open for a while longer. They do not want Dean running away with it, yet.

[Fovea]

61. Right On

Not enough states have caucuses anymore, I guess. Nobody gets it.

I was in a white district that went for Jessie Jackson. It didnt happen on the first alignment, you can bet on that.

[jobycom]

58. Could someone fill me in?

I've been paying little attention to Edwards for various reasons. Is he pro-war while campaigning, or just because he voted for the Resolution?

I remember claims from a long while back that Nader said if Edwards ran, he would not. Anyone remember that, or is my memory totally bad?

Some of what Dk is doing might just be good strategy. By now he knows it would take a miracle to win, and he might be pushing Edwards with two goals in mind. One, as said above, he could be trying to keep the field confused, in the hopes that people will get bored with the big three. Two, DK may be trying to promote a southerner in the hopes that it will attract southerners to the ticket. The more votes Edwards gets, the more popular he will become, and the more likely he is to be a VP (assuming he doesn't win). I doubt any of the big three would choose any of the other three as a running mate. But if Edwards shows strong, he would be a good VP, bringing in southern potential, and bringing all of the charm and youth he has to the ticket. He's a great VP choice, and the more he wins in the primaries, the more valuable he becomes. And, if he's VP, he owes Kucinich. It's nice to have a VP owe you for his job.

I'm not claiming DK is selling out or putting strategy ahead of ideology. Only that he may be keeping strategy in mind, too.

[LWolf]

67. Could I respectfully request

a title change for this thread? It's misleading. Dennis is not supporting Edwards; they are agreeing to support each other today only if they don't get the needed 15%. In that case, Edwards is also supporting Dennis. Neither of them are giving anything up.

[AlFrankenFan]

72. From CNN.com:

DES MOINES, Iowa (CNN) -- Democratic presidential candidates John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich have struck a deal to support each other should one candidate fail to draw the minimum support needed to compete in Monday night's Iowa caucuses, Edwards campaign sources said.



The decision could give Edwards, a U.S. senator from North Carolina, a boost in the convoluted caucuses, the first major Democratic contest of the election year. An Iowa poll published over the weekend shows Edwards is in a tight race with the four front-runners. The same poll has Kucinich, an Ohio congressman, drawing the support of just 3 percent of likely caucus-goers.

"Both of us believe in a lot of the same things, and we like each other very much," Edwards said. "But both of us also recognize at the end of the day, caucus-goers will have to make their own decisions about this."

In the first round of Iowa's Democratic precinct caucuses, starting Monday at 6:30 p.m. CT, voters divide into groups to register their support for a particular candidate. A candidate's group must have at least 15 percent of the people in attendance for the candidate to be considered "viable." Supporters of candidates who are not considered viable must join another group.

Edwards and Kucinich have agreed that in any Iowa precinct where either candidate fails to garner the minimum needed to survive the first round, their supporters are urged to line up for the other candidate, Kucinich spokesman David Swanson said.

"They both have a positive approach, and they both have an optimistic vision," Swanson said. "Where we need 15 percent, we've got 9 and he's got 6, they'll come to us, and where he's got 9 and we've got 6, we'll go to him."

The two candidates reached the arrangement even though Kucinich and Edwards differ on the war in Iraq, a major issue in the Democratic contests. Edwards voted to authorize the use of military force against Iraq, while Kucinich opposed it.

Edwards and Kucinich have become friends during the campaign, sources in both campaigns said.

The deal was finalized Sunday, and Edwards and Kucinich spoke to each other about the arrangement several days ago, Edwards campaign sources said.

But a spokeswoman for former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, one of Edwards' leading rivals in the Iowa contest, said the pact is a sign of weakness on Edwards' part.

"We are planning on being viable in all the precincts. We have no strategy to coordinate with another campaign," said Sarah Leonard, communications director for the Dean campaign in Iowa.

"It just says something about Senator Edwards' organization that he's needing to rely on Congressman Kucinich's support in order to be viable in some precincts."

And Stephanie Cutter, Sen. John Kerry's press secretary, said the Massachusetts senator "has broad support across the state."

"If we aren't viable, we will reach out to all campaigns," Cutter said. "Because this is not about cutting secret deals, this is about beating George Bush."

[Zhade]

83. OUCH.

But a spokeswoman for former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, one of Edwards' leading rivals in the Iowa contest, said the pact is a sign of weakness on Edwards' part.

I'll bet she wishes now she hadn't said that...

(I would have preferred Dean had beaten Kerry, even though he's not my choice. I'm a Kucinich supporter.)

[Zech Marquis]

81. now that's a surprise

DK has struck as being his own man, and to be honest I like him, he's such an honest and down to earth guy who is very passionate about his beliefs. Here's a toast for you DK :D

[aeon flux]

84. Didn't Edwards vote against the $87 billion for the Iraq war?

Thats a big plus for him in my book.