Dean Loses a Big New Hampshire Endorsement

[DemBones DemBones]

Fmr. U.S. Senator John Durkin (NH) is now undecided, turned off by Dean's speech Monday night after the caucuses.

This was an exclusive to CNN, which showed Durkin talking with a reporter.

Durkin: "Iowa dramatically changed the whole picture here."

I'll look for a link, this was just up on CNN about ten minutes ago.

[phillybri]

1. Holy cow...

This Iowa thing is getting blown a little out of proportion...

[Catch22Dem]

2. I agree

It was an impassioned speech, but it's been portrayed as some kind of looney rant. Dean isn't really my first or second choice, but I like the man, and I know a smear campaign when I see one.

[Beetwasher]

5. Yeah, I saw it as a passionate speech, nothing more

This is ridiculous what's going on...

Though I must say Howard Stern did a pretty funny bit on the speech this morning, he played all these songs w/ states in them like "Hotel California", and whenever the name of the state came up he edited in Dean's voice. I was LMAO. BTW, Howard was actually defending Dean saying he saw nothing bad about the speech and thought it was just Dean being excited/passionate...I agree...

[loudnclear]

48. It is blown out of proportion BUT folks are looking for someone to BEAT

Bush, not just run against him.

Wesley Clark is now self-destructing over the "rank" issue. there are many more non-officers than officers AND America has already allowed the Supreme Court to select an AWOLer for President so being a general and using that to almost snear at Kerry will not be helpful to Clark.

Folks we are down to four candidates: Kerry, Edwards, Kucinich, and Sharpton. We all know Sharpton is not a viable candidate but a valuable candidate. Kucinich is the most solidily Dem, for working men and women and had the absolute correct position on the Iraqi invasion AND he is right on all the rest of the issues as far as I am concerend BUT at this time he is not electable because of the shallowness of the American public.

So we are left with Kerry, Edwards...just make the best of it.

[bushisanidiot]

79. You've Got To Be Kidding.. Right?

"Folks we are down to four candidates: Kerry, Edwards, Kucinich, and Sharpton."

uh.. I don't think so. Kucinich and Sharpton haven't been viable contenders since day one. As much as I like both of them, they can't beat Dean, Clark, Kerry or Edwards in any primary. They may possibly give Lieberman a run for his money.. but that's it..

It's funny how quickly you wrote off Dean and Clark as if Kerry and Edwards have run a flawless and squeaky "clean" campaign and are above criticism.

I really like all 4 front runners and will work enthusiastically for whomever wins the nom.. but I'm leaning toward supporting Edwards in the primary now. There's a lot more to him than I initially gave him credit for.

[Loren645]

6. Yeah, it's really turning out to be an outright campaign assination

I hate the friggen media.

[dolstein]

9. More like Doctor (Dean) assisted suicide

Sorry, you can't blame the media for this one.

[Beetwasher]

15. Sure You Can

Absolutely you can blame them. Would they give the same completely out of proportion coverage if a Republican did this? You know they wouldn't. Bush has done countless boorish crude things on camera that you'll NEVER see discussed on TV. There was nothing crazy about Dean's speech or the infamous yell. I saw it, I heard it and it was spontaneous and passionate, but not angry nor crazed. And I am NOT a Dean supporter, I'm quite undecided at this point, but the media most certainly is blowing this out of proportion.

[maryallen]

29. When Chris Matthews plays the clip ...

From the Dean rally TWO TIMES a night on his show -- for the last THREE NIGHTS -- I'd say a major propaganda push is directed against Howard Dean.

[RichV]

38. Say that all you want

But here in my house full of Democrats we all were in shock and then broke down laughing during that Dean speech when it was on live. And we've got to rallies for the guy and are supportive. I can only imagine "how it played in Peoria" as they say. If Dean doesn't recover, that speech will be the most clearly defined turning point of this primary season.

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. Two words

Wellstone memorial.

[WillyT]

41. Great Point TBE !!!

Republicans can foaminate about Dem 'treason' and filandering, while all the time ruining this country and cheating on their spouses.

But... I guess, since Dems are better people, they get held to a higher standard. Weird, ain't it???

:puke:

[trogdor]

69. I was thinking of two different ones...

...Bill Buckner. :-(

[FredScuttle]

75. But you do acknowledge

that Bill Buckner has been unfairly maligned for "losing" the World Series for the Red Sox, don't you?

[Cuban Peril]

80. The point isn't

how the media portrayed the "meltdown", it's; Did the meltdown actually happen? Quit blaming the media for reporting the news.

[The Night Owl]

10. As though Bush's lies are presidential.

Judging by the amount of negative press Dean is getting for being too exhuberant, one gets the impression that Dean's primal scream killed someone.

Also, I have heard various pundits and journalists talking about how "unpresidential" Dean is. What a sad state this country is in when being overly exhuberant is criticized as being unpresidential but the president's lies are never criticized as being unpresidential.

[kskiska]

11. Was it presidential when * spit out his gum into his hand?

When * wiped his glasses on that girl's sweater on Letterman?
When * picks his nose in public?
When * called Adam Clymer an a**hole?
and on and on.

[PaDUer]

14. yes...but remember this....

what's being done was planned by them and the freepers carried the ball.
And, the freeps (R) have been donating $$$..was all part of the plan.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

22. Bush* appears unpresidential every second. But he's already there.

What I'd really like to see is the video of Bush* two minutes before he announced the official invasion of Iraq that was 'accidentally' shown to the UK when the BBC opened their live TV feed a little early.

Bush* acted like a frat boy at a sports event and pumped his fist and proclaimed "FEELS GOOD!"

THIS is the clip that the moveon.org commercials should keep running with a segue to coffins, dead soldiers, maimed civilians, unemployed, homeless, families in emergency rooms for health care etc. over and over and over..."FEELS GOOD!"

I thought the du postings bemoaning Dean's exhuberance were alarmist after I found a clip to download. I don't have TV and had to see for myself what all the fuss was about. I liked and admired Dean's energy.

Seems that media and doubters have been looking for a whiff of mannerism to beat Dean over the head with to say 'I toldya so.'

I think Americans want to see a real personality in office, rather like Jesse Ventura or Ahnuld but with creds. Dean can be that. I accidentally saw him in person in Philly last August during a business trip and I was impressed. I remain uncommitted to a candidate but appalled by Clark.

This Dean speech flap is piffle and palaver signifying some people's uncomfortableness with political leaders showing honest emotion. Tsk, tsk. Mustn't do that. There's no market for honest human emotion, not when there so many people to kill and torture. I know-let's nominate Clark! He's proven he's got the steely demeanor and stomach for lots of blood. And that's what we want in our president. Right? Right?...ech.

Guess I'm becoming a proponent of ABB+C. If Clark wins the nomination, I'll support him with fingers crossed and head bowed.

[JoFerret]

35. He was out of control...

...reminded me of Bush before the handlers took him over completely. Anyway - whatever we think of it on DU it does not play well. It will be ridiculed and mocked. Dean blew it - literally. The tea-kettle exploded. Personally - I know exactly how that feels - I too am that angry. But - as an election winning performance/ way to be it fails. I fear Dean blew it Tuesday night and it is over for him. He did the invaluable task of dragging the field of Democrats to an anti-war stance/ unafraid to attack Bush. Now the benefits will be reaped by others. now th task is to harness all the energy generated by dean to take the fight to Bush with whomever carries it.

[piece sine]

46. I'd do anything...

...for what you write to NOT be true, but the sad fact is you're post is painfully accurate....damn it! Kerry is going to break the Dean campaign's back in New Hampshire. There are wild shifts in the polls; Kerry is now ahead by 10 points. Dean's got the dough for a vanity campaign all the way to Boston, but all Howard would accomplish would to be take Dennis' seat at the table.

Clark will self-destruct next. Kerry / Edwards beats Bush, if we all stay in-line.

[cavebat2000]

50. How the hell was he out of control

You obviously did not see the video. lol He calmed down several times, and actually was busy calming the crowd down. Thats just a rediculous statement.

[piece sine]

58. I saw the video

I saw it live; I saw on the the morning talk shows; I saw it on the news; I saw it replayed over and over on late-night TV talk shows; I've ever the audio at DU again and again...I've heard the DU remixes, also on DU.

Cavebat2000 -- Dean was out of control.

[RetroLounge]

61. Wellstone Memorial

eom

[Lugnut]

44. It reminds me of...

The uproar about the passionate, uplifting memorial service for Paul Wellstone. Same game, different target.

[SKKY]

47. Couldn't agree with you more...

Heaven forbid that a potential presidential candidate have a personality and show a bit of charisma. They criticized Gore for being Data-like, and now they criticize Dean for just the opposite. I'm really starting to hate the media.

[wildwww2]

59. I hope more people start hating the media. The media has hated us for

a long,long time. By us I mean people to the left of the usurpers whom have taken our country on a path to hell. The american media is nothing more than an attack tool. Owned by the Republicans. And accusing themselves of being liberal. Only very gullible people should be falling for their crap by now. Don`t you think? But then again I always remember the picture of that pro-war freeper that floats around DU. Holding a sign saying: "Get a Brain Morans" And I come back down to earth and realize some people are that stupid.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[kskiska]

3. It's easy to see how the networks are manipulating

and spinning this to convince people they should be outraged at Dean's pep rally. Unfortunately, even judging by posters here, it's working.

[BadGimp]

23. Remember the Wellstone Funeral?

Remember how the media/GOP hacks spun that into a victory for the GOP!!??!!

These folks are soo much smarter and better at the "game" than the Dems.

Amazing and sickening at the same time.

Four more years of Gush is looking more and more like a certainty.

[Democat]

25. Dean speech is the Wellstone thing again

Here is the problem, it's not just that Democrats are wimpy non-fighters, but we don't own the media.

The entire U.S media leans right, so without our own Fox-like network, we are always going to get screwed.

Think about Salon vs. Newsmax and look at how even the most "liberal" or media actually tries to be fair, where right wing media doesn't even pretend to be fair - they get only their message out without apologies.

Until we get some media, and learn to stop being fair and nice, we will continue to lose to those who don't care about fairness or niceness.

[demdave]

26. I think your analogy is fault

Du = FR
Buzzflash = Newsmax
????? = Drudge
That is where we are lacking. There are no shortage or heavily bias Dem. sites. I am sure anyone here can give you a laundry list of them. What we don't have is a site that is viewed by the general public as a news site with a slight Dem. lean. That is why Drudge is so damaging, as is Fox, they are percieved by the general public as beibg neutral.

[Democat]

27. News Max and Salon are opposite sides of the same coin

I guess it's how you look at it, but judging by website traffic and how they are constantly quoted as news by people on the web, I think that Salon and News Max are very equivalent. Buzzflash is a level below either of them as far as a "source" and in the number of people who visit them each day.

The difference between News Max and Salon is that Salon, which is the "liberal" one, spends as much time bashing the left as the right, whereas News Max only bashes the left and praises the right.

[NV1962]

30. Wellllll...

What about http://informationclearinghouse.info ?

Tons of material there to work with, every day.

I think the problem is rather that on the right hand side, their dark ops are better coordinated, as are their individual organizations.

Diversity and openness also has a "weakness" in that it is harder to make a hard-hitting fist.

IOW: if you want a hard-hitting pulpit, don't complain - make one.

[demdave]

31. Your link could hardly be mistaken for a neutral site.

That was the point of my post. Hard-hitting sites are a dime a dozen. What we need is an outlet that is percieved by the general public as being neutral. That is how Drudge does it and then he very slyly selects the news to lean right.

Taking from your link....How We Got Into This Imperial Pickle: A PNAC Primer .....Lets Not Forget: Bush Planned Iraq 'Regime Change' Before Becoming President: 'This is a blueprint for US world domination ....
EXPOSED: The president's real goal in Iraq: The official story on Iraq has never made sense

This sight would never be seen by the public as being neutral. That is the trick.

[NV1962]

37. Point taken

With a minor addition: "we" don't have a frontpage case - yet. Drudge floated to prominence on Clinton's weewee; looking at it rationally, I see plenty of opportunities to set something like that up. No kidding - pity I don't have a Dutch uncle...

[Beetwasher]

34. How arbitrary

your equities are.

Any source of online news, with the exception of those directly supported by Newspapers or Network/Cable news, could all be considered equitable (to some degree). Some, like Drudge are seemingly, ARBITRARILY given more weight and used as sources to report on TV, and therefore, ARBITRARILY given more "legitimacy". Why is that?

You've given your personal veiw on what sources of ONLINE news are equal to eachother on opposite sides of the spectrum. What Left leaning news outlet exists w/ the scope of Fox? It's Fox, CNN and the echo chamber and network of rightwing propoganda outlets that ultimately legitimize Drudge, among others.

[Cuban Peril]

82. The "right-leaning" media

is coming to Dean's rescue tonight thanks to "repukes (did I get that right?)" Diane Sawyer and ABC News.

[kwolf68]

78. BADGIMP

LMAO...LMAO at your picture of Chimp Gone Wild....LMAO..

[XanaDUer]

4. Clarification

He DID officially endorse Dean, and then went to undecided? Or was thinking of doing so, and was turned off by Monday night?

[foxy loxy]

7. Another ex-Dean supporter

I'm an ex-Dean supporter who wrote letters to Iowa (10), gave him about $100 and passed out flyers for one of his speeches. The yowl was the tipping point for me after defending him for all sorts of increasingly bad screw-ups. He is just not fit to be president. I'm undecided now, but I have to hand it to Kerry and Edwards for sticking it out when everyone said it was over for them. I think they would make a great team. They have a lot of dedication and I salute them. Thank you Iowa for opening my eyes. I will be much more careful in the future.

[baby_bear]

12. Welcome to DU, foxy loxy!

Love your handle!

I agree that signing up one's heart (and cash) can come back to bite you, but you should be glad you got involved, early on. It's never too late change your mind. I was a Dean follower early on, but the encouraged MoveOn.org not to endorse anyone too early in the game, to prevent losing credibility as things progress (unpredictably).

Now, I think a Kerry/Edwards ticket would be great.
I am still making up my mind. We have our caucuses here in WA state Feb 7. I hope to participate.

Again, welcome to DU foxy loxy, and keep posting!

s_m

[ima_sinnic]

24. yeah, no exuberant and spontaneous presidents wanted </sarcasm>

"just not fit to be president" because he's a little too relaxed and outgoing with his supporters? better we elect someone stiff, boring and predictable--which it looks like may very well happen. somehow I find a "yowl" as a "tipping point" to mean not very much connection there to begin with between you and Dean.

"screw-ups"? sheesh. the guy's whole appeal has been his rough edges, his speaking from the heart, saying what he means and meaning what he says. Dean "yowled"--omg, I can't vote for anyone who "yowls."

[Chomskyite]

42. I bet this is a joke post

This cannot be real. You really base your vote on the expletives somebody emits during a pep rally speech?

Good lord.

I bet I'm not the only one laughing at you.

The Dean campaign is well rid of you, certainly.

[RetroLounge]

62. Riiiiiiiight....

:eyes:

[Guaranteed]

70. Yeah, sure you are.

You're really dedicated. You sure understand what Dean stands for.

[newsjunkie]

72. Riiiiight...sure you did

IF you actually did,then you are playing right into the bushites and the bushite controlled media's playbook. Foolish,IMO! You should listen to him further before deciding this. I guess you didn't learn the lesson of how Gore was treated. Now they are doing it to Dean. And for such a weak silly reason! Unfrikkenbelievable!

I WILL NOT GIVE UP ON DEAN. HE IS the one that can take the fight straight to Chimp's ugly face and beat him like the nasty punk deserves. He has the best proven record and is the only one with the vision and passion it will take. Kerry is a Skull & Bones insider,like Bush..don't forget that. It's not a good thing. Our party needs new fresh leadership that can stand tough against Bush regime. Kerry has already let Bush roll him over.Dean will say what he thinks is right for Americans whether its popular or best for him politically or not.

[David__77]

77. Whatever, Ms. Two-Post.

Thanks for contributing.

[hang a left]

8. Qualifier: Undecided

I think I have finally figured out the chosen ones

Kerry/Clark ticket

[imax2268]

13. You know...

I don't remember the media spinning something like this in quite sometime...
You don't see BushCo biting it on that sedgeway played over and over do you...
The whole "pretzel" thing was barely reported...(we all know he was probably drunk, passed out and hit his face on the corner of his desk)...
What about all the bumbleing statements that he as made in the past...(to many to post here)...

But they focus on a man who is clearly using the stage to fire up his troops...like a football coach that you see on inside the NFL...firing up his players...

But nooooooooooooooooo...they play this over and over and over...I even saw one "reporter" laughing after they showed it...

Our media is nothing but ratings monkeys and robotic commentators...the real media is the foriegn press...thank god for the BBC...!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. i agree..i have felt for a while that it was gonna be kerry/clark ticket

[xxqqqzme]

81. rove will be

happy U think so. The rethugs will throw their squatter supporting voting records in their face. U will B reminded over and over and over and over that they did NOT oppose squatter. Look at 2day - they R out campaigning, trying to garner votes of hard working Americans, barely able 2 make ends meet. In their absence, 8 million of those hard working Americans lost their over-time pay. Oh yea, that's a winning ticket!...................NOT!

[Gman]

16. Dean absolutely does not deserve the bad rap he's getting

for that speech. It was obviously to excite the crowd. That's it. There's people in the party that don't want Dean. They found a way to get rid of him. Its unfortunate but such is life playing hardball in the big leagues.

[kskiska]

18. James Carville said the press corps would line up

if Karl Rove were giving out dog biscuits.

[shance]

19. How can someone be so shallow as to be "turned off" by one speech??

You have to be kidding me. This is such a joke.

This guy is a fair-weathered opportunist.. Sounds like he probably changes his mind every time the clock changes.

[Ramsey]

20. A fair weather friend

He probably wants to jump on the bandwagon of the perceived "winner". What a loser.

[Dhalgren]

33. Look, political affiliations with candidates in a primary are fleeting.

That is what the primaries are for. Because a Democrat switches support from one candidate to the next is not only that Democrat's right, it is his/her obligation (and to be exspected). I am a strong DK supporter, but if another candidate begins to appeal to me more or DK does something to turn me away - hey, I'm gone. I do not "owe" my vote to anyone - in the primaries or in Nov.

[diamondsoul]

54. Interesting comment.

Sounds a lot like how some DK supporters feel when we hear the unelectable meme. Stinks, doesn't it?

[Tuttle]

21. Ummm...

link?

Tut-tut

[candy331]

28. I hope he doesn't burn a bridge that

he may have to cross again or maybe I do. Why jump ship before you know you can make a safe landing or maybe he knows. Hum!

[progressivebydesign]

32. I want a president with some life in him!!

ACK!!! I am SO TIRED of stuffed shirts, corporate whores, and anal-retentives running for public office! I WANT someone who is just a bit normal.. Bush is totally incompetent, brash, rude, and bascially pretty sociopathic... but he's likable? I like Dean. I liked him before, I like him now. I think this speech thing is another way to destroy him. I'll say to every supporter of any other candidate. Your turn will come. Do you think that the media will play nice-nice with your candidate? Do you think your candidate is immune that nothing could be twisted and manipulated against them? Dean was first because he was a threat... They forget the true American way. And that is we don't like being told who to vote for and who to like. Give them a few weeks of feeling like someone is being shoved down their throat, and Dean will resurface. He had over 6,000 new people sign up for his emails in the past 48 hours. He must have hit a chord with someone!

For once, and I never thought I'd say this, I agree with Howard Stern. This is no big deal. But. it's a way for the media to win one.. to show that their incessant attacks struck gold, and his exuberance only proves that they were right. He was funny, he was hoarse, he was overtired. He was human. But.. we don't want a human to be president, do we?

I think this fellow in New Hampshire is looking a bit foolish. The quote that was used in the original post said that the race had changed because Dean didn't win Iowa. So.. is he going to switch to someone else after New Hampshire, and call a freakin' news conference after every state?? Have we Democrats just lost our minds completely?

[Dhalgren]

36. Hey, Dean doesn't really have to worry about us at DU.

We will vote for him if he gets the nom. He needs to figure out a way to counter the spin that is being pushed by all the Pravda media. He needs to come out on Letterman or Leno and scream some or something - show everyone that it doesn't "mean" anything. He was going to congratulate Kerry and Edwards, but caught up in the surge of emotion from his troops and turned it (maybe prematurely) into a pep-rally. So he whoop it up a little - big deal. Maybe it felt good? He should tell the American public that his "yowls" are always honest - never lies.

[Oreegone]

40. What Bushit

Nobody in the US can exhibit any feelings or they are out of hand.

We are true Puritanical whimps, ever see the political process in England?

They must be laughing their asses off right now.

[daleo]

43. Kerry in his turn will soon be slagged by the RW media

For something equally trivial - probably that he lacks passion. This is a technique of the powerful. They damn you when you do a particular thing, then they damn you for doing its opposite. All the while, they make the pretense of being objective. It is meant to create the "can't win" feeling in you, otherwise meant as learned helplessness.

Think of the experiment with the mouse, where the experimenter wired up the cage to give electric shocks on one side or the other. The mouse jumped around accordingly. As the experimenter's rewards and punishments became more arbitrary, the mouse eventually gave up and didn't even try to avoid the shock.

The trick is, don't be the mouse. Keep on the offensive, and don't let the bastards get you down.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

45. No. Kerry will first need to do something to give them ammo.

Dean provided them the fodder. It was a joint effort.

[daleo]

49. I hope you are right

CNN did a bit of a 'Kerry doesn't know the price of gas' feature already tonight. They kept it light, but one wonders if they weren't beginning to probe.

I kind of like what I have seen of Kerry - he seems to have a value system that I can live with. The main downside is that * may use Kerry's support of the IWR (even though he now says he was conned) to deflect criticism of the war.

[savistocate]

51. Provided fodder???

What in blue blazes is this shit. I'm reading it --and rebuttals even more at TT Dean thread, few hundred--descibed by some press idiots over the top..crazy insane as told by posters--
wondering how bad this could possibly be to this_ really crazy_ reaction. So 7 News Daily opens with the clip. I cannot see anything over the top in shouting rousing "onward cheers" all of 20 secs!!?? His supporters behind him did not obviously take any exception grinning applauding. Jeeeej

Myletters to some tv press-pundidtiots ask what can be fierce in a political campaign speech overreaching this Cheney-Bush-PNAC fierce militance, militarist policy to overtake , dominate rule the world plans for
our planet. No interpretive concluding here this is the Natl SecPolicy Report of Sep 2002. Not one hint from this worthless empty media.

Jon Stewarts usual face making "Hulk impression" joke seemed stretched to thinnest irrelevance even after finally seeing this colossal exageration. Then shows Sen Kennedy shouting out his intro to Kerry..his face swelling grotesquely voice at wildest decibel. But the only absurdity and real guffaw had to be Kerry comes to the mic so placid wilted spirit dull next to the charged energy of TK. The real laugh and punch line. He'll never win.
Cons. radical RW not even now going after Kerry; they want to run against him. Posts there of Repub pundits still throwing spears at Dean..they are afraid of him.

[Lorien]

55. Just wait; the bad hair, Grim Reaper

wooden and dull jokes are just beginning. Kerry's LACK of passion and personality will be a huge media theme if he gets the nomination. Count on it.

[regnaD kciN]

83. ...and that's just the beginning!

-- "Massachusetts liberal" (a little like being called a "San Francisco Democrat")

-- "Harvard-educated liberal" (for some reason, Democrats with a Harvard education are automatically assumed to be elitist snobs out-of-touch with average Americans, while no such negative applies to Ivy League Republicans)

-- "protege of Ted Kennedy"

-- "protege of Michael Dukakis"

-- "preppy limousine liberal" (see comment on Harvard above...it applies to upper-class status, too...we're not allowed to have it)

-- "unpatriotic" (ignore his stellar war record...what they will fixate on is his leadership of VVAW, and how "when our boys were still fighting and dying over there, Kerry was starting his political career by giving aid and comfort to the Vietcong")

-- "the man who threw someone else's medals back"

I've always thought that, when people would describe Howard Dean as "unelectable," that the only candidate who would have a harder time breaking through the stereotypes would be John Kerry. Seriously, what we're talking about here is an Al Gore with a New England background (anathema to the South), and an anti-Vietnam record that won't play very well with the military and its supporters. I will grant that its possible for a candidate with high potential negatives to "catch fire" (like Bill Clinton did in 1992) and create a positive image of himself so strong that the negatives simply cease to matter). But whether the patrician Kerry can replicate the appeal of the just-plain-folks Clinton is, to me, dubious at best. And, if not, we could be looking at a blowout of historic proportions with Kerry at the helm.

[WatchWhatISay]

57. It's not about that

What, Cheney's boy didn;'t provide them with a hell of a lot more?!

[RetroLounge]

63. Wellstone Memorial

n/t

[WatchWhatISay]

56. So true

In the end, they will find them all unacceptable, for some trivial reason, so that they can conclude that we should all just stick with Cheney's boy.

[Manix]

52. ..I saw one CNN morning anchor laugh derisively after showing

the clip and then said, "Are we gonna let this guy have his
finger on the the nuclear button?. I don't think so!"

[TomNickell]

67. POTATO(E)

Reminiscent of the Dan Quayle Potato(e) dustup. The mistake meant nothing by itself, but it -did- illustrate a lot of the questions people had about the guy.

In hindsight, Quayle got a bit of a bad rap. He's a -lot- smarter the *. Quayle speaks in complete sentences.

The recurring mystery is why such a dust-up never happened for *. He certainly provides plenty of material.

FWIW, I didn't find Dean's act scary. It wasn't smart tactics--he had the largest TV audience he's likely to have for a while and he needed to impress the general public, not his core supporters in the building.

[Maeve]

68. Much better to have a bozo who tells terrorists "Bring 'em on!"

Yeah. Right. :eyes:

[SoCalDem]

53. Americans are so used to FAKE, they cannot understand REAL

Think about it..

We all "know" that Bush is fake.. He did not WIN, and yet we accept it..

We "know" that Bush is not really even in charge, but we pretend that he is..

We "know" that ,.."The distinguished colleague across the aisle" is NOT their friend, and if they could kill them and get away with it, they WOULD..

We "know" that it's difficult to have a real relationship, but as a culture we are content to watch "Average Joe","Blind Date", and the other "Fake" shows..

We "know" that adventure is good, but we sit in front of the tv and watch globe trekker,Survivor,and Fear Factor..

We "know" that the media "feeds" us nonsense, and we accept is as news..

We "know" that ALL of the candidates will say whatever is needed , in order to win, and yet we want to believe that they are sincere..

We "know" that whoever comes out the winner will disappoint us, but we accept it, over and over, and over..

We "know" that the Bush Slime machine will be in high gear, and spewing lie after lie, but we also know that we cannot stop it..

We are "uncomfortable" with real.. Howard Dean had a "real moment", and in past times, it would be spoken about and maybe written about, but thanks to the ever-present media, and video, it has been immortalized for all time.. He will never "get away" from it..

The only way he could have neutralized it, would have been to embrace it, and say something to the effect of... "Hell yes.. I was carried away with the enthusiasm of the crowd...and I am not a robot"..

It may be too late now, and the "Wellstone-ian" implication of it will be on the top of the "go-to-the-funny-clip" list of every media person in the country...

The bell has been rung, and you cannot un-ring it..

[Braden]

60. I'm not a dean supporter

but what about his speach made him unpresidential? the yell? I saw a passioned guy who defended his right to be considered relevant after a somewhat surprising defeat.

No one thought Bob Dole was unfit for the presidency when he fell off the stage in 96, except me.

[Ilsa]

64. Non-political people wrote on other message boards

that they thought Dean was "scary". Of course they were seeing the clip completely out of context, over and over. But without having the benefit of really understanding what happened that night, I think seeing it even once would have been enough to get some people (uncommitted) worried about who Dean is.

BTW, I like Dean, and i think the media has used the clip for PR mileage, just to have something to talk about besides *'s lame SOTU address.

[Maeve]

65. Remember, the media want excitement

They had built Dean's momentum into "an unstoppable force" and then proceeded to find a way to stop him. They are tickled pink to be able to have a horse race, again, preferably one in the mud. And if they can destroy someone in the process.....

[Cooley Hurd]

66. "From an ex-Dean supporter..."

To those whose vote and support of Dean was affected by his post-caucus speech, all I can say is shame on you for wearing clay Reeboks...
:eyes:

The Doctor is a passionate man - this is something you all knew from the get-go. It's shameful that you've let the corporate media shape your opinion of him...

[Enjolras]

71. Hear hear!!

Remember the generally positive reaction to Bush's potty-mouthed characterization of NYT's Adam Clymer as a "major league asshole", not to mention his various verbal mispronunciations and oratory gaffes (Bushisms)? Is realism only a good thing if you're a Republican?

Why shouldn't Howard get angry? It's not like there isn't plenty to be angry about. Were Orrin Hatch, John Ashcroft, Rick Santorum, etc., angry at Bill Clinton's mendacity and subsequent attempt to parse his way out of it? The conservative base likes the leadership to be angry.

I know this is asking for the moon, but can we just have a little consistency from our friends counterparts on the Right?

[leesa]

73. The Crime Family is really going after Dean. He must be on to something

Considering the "amazing" results of the Iowa primary, I wonder if it was manipulated by the Crime Family and their DNC pals.

[pompano]

74. smear tactic

I am not a Dean supporter, and haven’t been since I was so elequently sterotyped by him, as being from the south and driving a pick-up truck.

That being said...I think what is happening now is nothing but a smear tactic run rampant. So what, the guy shows enthusiasm, raises his voice and rolls up his sleeves? Anyone think ya can get anythig done in Washington walking around as a monotoned robot in a silk suit?

Give the guy a break...

My TV has been on for 1 hour now...I’ve seen the clips I know 5 times...I’ve seen nothing, absolutely nothing that makes Dean look unPresidential IMHO.

Dean is not my first choice...Sharpton is...if Dean gets the nomination I would literally run to the polls to vote for him over Bush.

All of our candidates now are bulleyes for media smear tactics...looks like Dean just happened to be first in line

[2cents]

76. Dean should not back down

Retreat and apologetic submission will only justify the attacks. If the media wants to make much ado about nothing -- capitalize on the attention and turn it to your advantage, maybe even use the yell as his official rallying cry.

If Dean stands strong and goes on the offensive, he can turn it around.