Clinton challenges Obama to Lincoln-Douglas style debate

[yurbud]

Source: AP

Clinton took the debate dispute to a new level, challenging Obama to face off with her in a debate without a moderator, Lincoln-Douglas style.

"Just the two of us, going for 90 minutes, asking and answering questions, we'll set whatever rules seem fair," Clinton said while campaigning in South Bend.

Her campaign made the offer formal with a letter to the Obama campaign. Obama aides said they were studying the letter.

The more open style of debating where each side presents an argument gets its name from the famed debates that took place during the 1858 U.S. Senate race in Illinois between Republican Abraham Lincoln and Democrat Stephen Douglas.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080426/ap_on_el_pr/democrats

---

If Hillary had done something like this early on, this would be a very different race.

[DJ13]

1. And Obama challenges Clinton to a Hamilton-Burr duel

This is just silly.

[JeanGrey]

29. Yawn..................They have debated endlessly.

Hillary got a little boost from that unfair god awful debate and now she thinks she can pull it off again. He should tell her "no thanks".

[TroglodyteScholar]

61. Not sure she could pull it off....

...without Georgie Stephanopolous doing her dirty work.

What a disgrace that was.

[Occulus]

64. That's a joke, right?

Because- and please, correct me if I'm wrong, but- during the last several Presidential election contests.... the "debates", on all sides, have been nothing of the sort.

They're more like individual interview in miniature than they are debates. I agree with the OP- is Hillary had done this early on in the race, the whole thing would look very different today- and we would likely still have at least Edwards in the race.

[zabet]

2. It is a good idea but,

I do not see uh uh uh uh uh Obama going for it.

[MidwestTransplant]

33. I wouldn't debate in that fashion with somebody who had nothing to lose either.

[JeanGrey]

45. Why should he? She's done. If he keeps debating her he just

keeps her coming 'round like some guy who won't take "no" for an answer.

[YDogg]

3. "If Hillary had done something like this early on, this would be a very different race."

you mean she'd already have dropped out?

[yurbud]

6. if she had dropped out after making moves like this, she would still have the respect of many of us

[JeanGrey]

46. Yeah. She had bad negatives before, whoo boy.

Now I had to tell my friend she right about her. That hurt.

[MercutioATC]

4. Absolutely not. Clinton doesn't play fair.

Plus, it does nothing for Obama and gives Clinton free airtime.

[tekisui]

5. Yeah, they'll agree to rules.

Just so Hillary can ignore and twist them.

[AlinPA]

10. Like Michigan. She signed off on it then changed. yuk

[raystorm7]

47. Right on Point! I don't trust her to follow any rules at this point.

[blm]

7. Sen. Clinton, tell us why BushInc was protected throughout the 90s by a Clinton White House

more interested in servicing the secrecy and privilege of GHWBush and his powerful elite cronies than preserving the accuracy of this nation's historic record, as demonstrated by the deep-sixing of all BCCI's outstanding matters throughout the two terms of the Clinton administration?

Take your time, we're all ears.

[yurbud]

8. we could compile a pretty good list.

[madrchsod]

28. they had more important work to do....

who else was there to protect the money class in this country? it was hard work but someone had to do it.....

[AlinPA]

9. Clinton 1st question:"Where is your Flag Pin?" Clinton 2nd question:

"Why do you hate America?"
Clinton 3rd question: "Tell Americans about your kindergarten papers"...........

[lapfog_1]

11. Today is the ONE YEAR anniversary of the first Democratic

Presidential Debate. There have been 20 more in the last 12 months.

Why do we need yet another one? Does NO ONE in Indiana or North Carolina get network broadcasts or cable or the "series of tubes" that make up the internets?

We do not need another debate.

We need Hillary and her supporters to realize that it's over.

(About today being the anniversary... I'm going by what I heard KO say a few days ago)

[Evergreen Emerald]

12. He cannot do it. She will out debate him. She has a better grasp of the issues

and a depth of understanding of what is needed to make the right changes in our society.

He just mimicks the handlers. It shows when he debates.

[Zuiderelle]

14. I agree. And he won't accept.

[Peregrine Took]

15. Agreed. He'll never go for it. Debating is her forte and not his and they

both know it.

[madrchsod]

26. barack is a puppet who is controlled by the lords of the over world

[JeanGrey]

31. Better "grasp" of the issues? You mean when she isn't lying?

[Evergreen Emerald]

40. If you are truly concerned about "lying" rather than if anyone has a grasp of the issues

Why are you totally unconcerned about Obama's lies? And, if you don't know what his lies are than how the hell are you on this board complaining about Clinton?

[JeanGrey]

43. Please explain to be a bald faced lie that Obama told that

was even CLOSE to the sniper fire story? Do you not even CARE that Hillary threatened to "oblierate" another country with a nuke?

What would you have said if a republican said that?

Look support your candidate. But it's got to stop because it is already over and it's been over. I know it's a bad break that Hillary had to run with there was a better, black candidate for those that have always settled for them. But it's just over.

I fully expect her to sue over Michigan and Florida, and probably have be dragged away with her fingernails digging into the wood. And that's a shame, because I used to like her.

[Evergreen Emerald]

57. LOL

The fact that you have made the Bosnia story an issue shows how far you have to reach to find reasons to hate Clinton.

Bosnia: they flew into the FRONT LINES OF A WAR. I saw the tape that showed a CBS report where there was SNIPER FIRE while she was talking. War zone, front lines. Not far off of reality.
A non-issue created by the media and by the Obama camp continuing to e-mail the media attempting to get them to air the story 24/7.

Lie one: Obama at first denied that he had anything to do with hyping the Bosnia story. Turns out he lied as his camp daily sent e-mails attempting to get them to make into something it was not.

Lie: he is a different kind of candidate: turns out he is only pretending as he gets his surrogates to send e-mails to the media asking them about Clinton connections to "pinjab" and asking why Bill Clinton's infedlitiy is not covered in the media.

Lie: NAFTA and Canada
Lie: He said Clinton had a part in killing Bhutto. Quickly changed his line when he say the fall out. Of course the media let him change it because he is allowed to get away with lying.
Lie: How much Rezko gave him. Friday dump showed he was given lots more than he said.
Lie: His relationship with Rezko
Lie: Clinton and healthcare. He sent fliers out lying about her stance.
Lie: That he takes no money from lobbyists. That is a big lie. He takes money from surrogates of lobbyists...what "is is."

The fact that you do not know his lies, and you still call Clinton a liar about the silly Bosnia story, makes me wonder how such an uninformed person can continue to vilify Clinton when you have no knowledge of the facts.

[humbled_opinion]

66. WIth that kind of talk its...

No wonder 20 percent of the Hillary supporters will jump ship and vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee. You sound exactly like a Repuke. Small minded, intolerant, bigot.

[Evergreen Emerald]

69. What? How do you possibly come up with your conclusions?

I have obviously read and researched the issues. I am fully aware of both sides of the issues, and have made a decision--not based on media or political talking points (those are obviously what this threat op did).

Intolerant and bigot? Where the hell did that come from? Because I don't support Obama I am a bigot? You have it backwards. Those who continue to claim that Clinton is a "Racist!" to win an election--those are bigots and small minds.

unbelievable.

[JeanGrey]

75. What total nonsense you write. HILLARY LIED ABOUT SNIPER

FIRE. There is video of it, plain and simple, your lame attempts to cover this up notwithstanding, are pathetic.

She is a liar.

[Yael]

13. Shut up, Hillary

He has more important things to do than entertain you for 90 minutes. Like talking to voters.

[Evergreen Emerald]

23. Actually, he is hiding from the debate because he knows he will fail

like he did the last time. This is not about more "important things to do." What is more important than answering questions of citizens? This is about hiding from his shortcomings.

[Yael]

30. Or, he is not supporting 90 minutes of free air time to the Queen of Broke

FAIL.

[earthside]

35. That was the first thing I said ...

... when I saw this story reported on CNN: "Oh, please, SHUT UP!"

Billary is as phony as a three dollar bill ... Barack shouldn't be wasting anymore time "debating" the Bosnian liar.

I am so tired of her political stunts and cheap shots that I just turn off the TV whenever her wrinkled face shows up.

[Evergreen Emerald]

42. you don't even hide your misogyny.

"shut that wrinkled bitch up." Let's get back to some B. BAll.

Lovely. Progressive.

[earthside]

48. "Wrinkled"?

So, now "wrinkled" is a misogynist term. I didn't use the word "bitch" -- that was YOU.

This is just another reason why a lot of genuinely progressive Americans are done with the Clintonites ... twist, distort, lie, conflate, mislead ... shut up, indeed!

[Evergreen Emerald]

56. You do not know that reducing a woman to her appearance in a demeaning way

is not sexist? You have a lot to learn. "Progressive?"

[earthside]

58. Hilarious!

Great!

I'm glad to know that all those Billary supporters on DU that include that touched-up photo of her on their posts making her look like she's still 25 years old are really --- SEXISTS!

It looks like you've got a lot to learn about logic, consistency and, yes, being genuinely Progressive.

[humbled_opinion]

67. Isn't it obvious...

The Clintons don't need to be back in the WH to get a BJ they can just head on over to Evergreen Emeralds house.

[rainbow4321]

16. "I am broke and need all the free publicity that I can get"

No. Way. In. Hell.


Why is she acting like no one in the upcoming states had access to the past 21 debates????? It's 2008, not 1708....if one really wanted access to previous debates, they could have done so.

[Lady-Damai]

20. Too funny....but true.....

I hope Obama just ignores her. Anytime I see her....I keep imagining when Dorthy's house fell on the Wicked Witch of the East.

She annoys me greatly. :7 I regret voting for her as my senator. If I only knew.....this mistake would come back to haunt me.

What was I thinking?! Oh....there was no other better choice. x(

[rainbow4321]

34. Don't feel bad

Chimp is in the WH because of only 20,000 Texas votes...

How is that?
Back during chimp's 2nd run for TX gov the ** LT GOV race** was a blood bath, making this primary race look like a lovefest.
The repuke Lt Gov won the race, allowing chimpass to announce his bid for the WH. Had the Dem Lt Gov won it would have kept chimp from running for Pres cuz there was no way hell he would have let a Dem Lt Gov take over as Tx gov.
The whole time chimp was swearing to Texans that he would fulfill his 2nd term, he had plans from the beginning to bail out, meaning that the Lt Gov would take over as Gov.

The repuke Lt Gov had won the race by only 20,000 votes.

Eight years of misery, war, death, economic woes because of 20,000 votes. How many of those 20,000 realize this today??

[fascisthunter]

73. OUCH

Very true though...

[bigbrother05]

17. Why should he prop her up

there her mistakes, no free air time, so she can pay off her debts
Flawed campaign on her part, all along.
Starting with Shame on you, still the same trick

[balantz]

18. I like the idea. Good clean riproarin' debatin'!

But Edwards should be included, just for the Hell of it!

Edwards would actually add some substance and direction to it and debate the issues, not the fluff.

[Pastiche423]

19. She can't afford more exposure

So a (free) debate is the only way to get her face out before a large audience.

Her husband was in my neighborhood yesterday. I did not go to hear him. I've heard enough from the both of them to last me a lifetime.

[nancyr]

37. Yes, me too.

He was just a few blocks from me and I had no desire to go either. I am sick to death of the Clintons and just wish they would go away. Him talking about Hilary's Campaign for Change???? Jeez.

[creeksneakers2]

21. That's a much better format than the one ABC News used

Its just a little late for a debate now. Perhaps one more though might set a standard so Obama can challenge McCain to the same type of debate. I don't believe a GOPer could survive the intense heat.

[Zachstar]

24. Interesting

If they both pummel each other over issues it will set the tone as the right debate style and democrats can ignore all other offers for moderated debates.

[Zachstar]

22. While I do not agree with another Debate. I applaud Clinton for atleast thinking

This is a risk for her. Because NOBODY will be blamed except her when it comes to silly questions. One fuck up and she will be on soundbites for days.

They will BOTH be constrained to the issues.

[madrchsod]

25. they are going to debate on the court house lawn?

boy talk about going old school....

look up the lincoln douglas debate in google-

does anyone think the television audience in the up coming states would listen to the real lincoln -douglas debate if it were on television...?

[DontTreadOnMe]

27. 2nd Place

The candidate in second place is always asking for a debate...

[raystorm7]

32. I say let her debate herself. That would be interesting :p

[JeanGrey]

44. Hey she could! The gun toting, whiskey slugging, sniper fire

dodging Hillary could debate the woman who is gentle and smart and has everyone's best interests at heart. Snort! What fun!

[bowens43]

36. to hell with Clinton

she's finished. she's irrelevant. she has nothing to say that is worth hearing. it's time for her to sit down and STFU.

[Hulk]

38. Desperate housewives.....

She has nothing to lose, and he has nothing to gain. It was bad enough he offers to go on to pravda this weekend with the slimey worm, chris wallace. Now she tries to entice him into her web.

What they will do to an honorable and decent man in this game of politics. John Edwards knew enough to call a spade a spade. Now Obama will go on to the propaganda network for the neocon fascist regime and "play nice" with the scum of the earth.

Hillary is washed up. Go back to being a strong voice in the Senate. You have done all you can do....with honor. Now the desperate streak begins to show.

[lligrd]

39. No Moderators?

Who the hell would shut Hillary up and call her out on lies if there were no moderators? Why don't we just go for a boxing match instead?

[Zachstar]

41. Because if it is fully open the media can pick it apart later.

You can't make mistakes when there is no mod around. You end up on soundbites all over the country.

[forintegrity]

49. "Whatever rules seem fair"???????

Give me a break!!! We have all seen how SHE plays by the rules!!!

And how many frickin' debates do we need? I've seen enough of this stupid game! Besides, he doesn't need to go down this road again because HE'S WON!!!

She is so making a fool of herself every day she continues in this campaign! If it's not this game, it'll be another tomorrow.

Obama needs to focus on McSame. He's his opponent now. Clinton is history.


GOBAMA!

[Malva Zebrina]

50. Obama does not need Hillary to set the criteria or the stage

He is winning; she is losing. This latest ploy of the Clintons is pure desperation. There have been some twenty one debates. I lost count and most people at this point in the game, have lost interest, no matter how much ABC tried to beat Obama to a pulp, no matter how much Hillary was so eager to jump on the smears.

She has lost. Obama does not need another boring crappy debate format that has already lost it's appeal. She has lost and apparently has such great powers of intuition and analyses, that she cannot perceive that fact. Bill probably keeps telling her she can win, so he can get back in the White House, through the back door. She believes him, apparently. LOL

What a pathetic couple they have turned out to be. They ought to take their 109 million and live out their lives in happy prosperity. INstead they chose to go down in infamy and drag their only child, Chelsea,who also lied about the Bosnia sniper fire, with them.

[D23MIURG23]

51. He shouldn't dignify her with any more debates.

She doesn't deserve any more of his time.

[ohio2007]

52. I bet the world would tune in just to wonder if she fancy's herself Lincoln or

Douglas.....




Iran Friday Sermon: Hillary's Comment – "Psychological Attack"


http://www.thememriblog.org/blog_personal/en/7021.htm



a party divided

[electricray]

53. Obama doesn't want this campaign to be about negatives

He doesn't want people voting against Senator Clinton, he wants people voting for him. He knows that in a televised debate with no moderator he'll spend all his time trying to find a way to keep the conversation out of the image politics gutter and his attempts to direct attention to issues will be met with Senator Clinton's best imitation of future McCain campaign ads.

You can't fight bumper-sticker sniping when you are bound by commercial breaks while at the same time attempting to make the debate substantive. She might as well have challenged him to a professional wrestling match. She wants to get him in a spot where she can say Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers as many times as possible and then smile at the camera while Sen. Obama has to waste fully-engaged Americans' time explaining something that has absolutely no impact on their lives. Never mind that he'll have no time to speak of the things he hopes to do that actually can have an effect on them. He'll have no time to give us hope and inspire us. She'll have 90 minutes to crush our spirit about an America that we believe can exist with the correct leadership. She'll have 90 minutes to condition us to expect more of the same when Sen. Obama debates McCain. She'll have 90 minutes to do as much damage as she can in hopes that in 2012 she won't have a powerful inspirational candidate to run against.

I doubt Evander Holyfield would agree to fight Mike Tyson again, but if he did, nobody would watch to see a boxing match. They'd watch to see which body part Tyson bit off this time. Same is true for this. Every time Sen. Obama gets on stage with another candidate, regardless of who it is, he is setting the stage for his future debates with McCain. The last thing he wants to do is help re-condition all of the recently politically engaged masses watching, to feel like they are watching a reality TV show for entertainment value, rather than participating in a process that truly has an effect on their lives.

I missed some of my favorite shows during the writers' strike but looking back I am so happy it happened. The spell of television was broken at an important time. When people watched TV they watched news and debates. When they didn't watch TV they read blogs and newspapers or, more importantly, talked to the people around them. They spent that time engaging more in their own lives and less in the lives of Meredith Grey and Jack Bauer. Based on the last debate I think there seems to be an effort to get back to the "normal" world of old where it mattered to people which Hollywood starlet showed skin this week more than which American soldier lost limbs. Why would Barak Obama want to participate in the re-dumbing-down of the people he truly believes can fix this mess?

[ryanmuegge]

54. They are both so similar on the issues that there isn't much to debate,

other than personal, "character-based" shit that could hurt both of them (though it shouldn't).

Plus, neither one of them can talk substantively about the issues too much because it'll expose how little they have in common with the American public (though they still have MUCH, MUCH more in common with the American public than the Republicans).

[mbperrin]

55. So he's afraid and wants to play it safe.

Nothing surprising about that. The Daley Chicago machine doesn't take many chances.

[ohio2007]

59. Clinton proposes no-moderator debate with Obama

snip
"So here is my proposal: I'm offering Senator Obama the chance to debate me one-on-one, no moderators. Just the two of us going for 90 minutes asking and answering questions. We'll set whatever rules seem fair," Clinton said

snip
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080426/ts_alt_afp/usvotedemocratsdebate_080426230337;_ylt=AnGNDdIJPasQcLjXiTSZf9Vh24cA

That's called "a cage match"

[mbperrin]

70. It's actually a great idea. When's the last REAL debate we had?

The world isn't as scripted as we always pretend it is with the elaborate beauty pageants we've been having since the mid 70s.

[WoodyM]

60. As to the 21 debates

One set up as Hillary suggested would draw more attention than all the 21 have. A debate with mutually agreed rules, without a moderator to ask questions and the debaters asking the questions would generate much interest in the debate. Each would have to consider what implications each question would create and how it would look to the viewers and in the news. Each would have to consider what repercussions the answer would have. Each could ask what questions they wanted to and answer as each wished. Such a debate would bring out details of policy and individual personal quirks and leanings not previously exposed.

It could be a fantastic win or loss.

However it will not be. Obama can make wonderful teleprompter speeches and does well where he answers questions from a friendly audience. However, he cannot debate. He hems and haws, errs and aws. He cannot even explain his own policies in detail.

It would be a disaster for him and he and his handlers know it, so there will be no debate of this nature.

[JerseygirlCT]

62. How about: Sorry, I can't. I'm too busy now registering new voters... nt

[bushesass]

63. Hillary doesn't want a debate.

This is all for show. It makes Obama look like he is trying to dodge the debate and the media will pick it up and run with it.

[mcollier]

65. Screw Hillary! McSame is he opponent

Axillary Hillary is a finished sleezy politican.

Rotate this! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yjcLCDUrAk

[Born Free]

68. Right wing will love this...

When anger lebvel raises and both candidate blurt out things that in the heat of the discussion, the right wing will use it to help McCain. It's amazing how many people play into this entire debacle to help McCain. it will be the first time in history a candidate won so easily, by doing nothing more than allowing the other side destroy their chances of winning. Where are all thes so called super delgates that are suppossed to know how to stop a train wreck before it happens....I can't believe this is still going on.....

[yurbud]

71. the Perot-Gore debate on NAFTA was one of the more intelligent ones in recent history

even if Gore was on the wrong side.

[truthisfreedom]

72. Obama: "Sorry, Hil, I'm too busy saving the party."

[galledgoblin]

74. it would have been interesting to see, but it'll never happen this late in the race

this is a hail-mary move.

[Javaman]

76. More stupidity in the land of horrors...

how about this for a switch? attack fucking mclame!!!

this blood feud monkey poop fight is just beyond disgusting.

I haven't watched one of this faux debates since this whole ridiculous 17 month!!! campaign season started.

It's alllllllllllllll bullshit.

Until they start attacking that asshole mclame, all of this is nothing more than parsing words on a topic they both agree.

I'm ashamed to be a democrat.