Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination

[Stump]

Source: CNN

KANSAS CITY, Kansas (CNN) -- Army Spc. Jeremy Hall was raised Baptist.


Army Spc. Jeremy Hall, who was raised Baptist but is now an atheist, says the military violated his religious freedom.

Like many Christians, he said grace before dinner and read the Bible before bed. Four years ago when he was deployed to Iraq, he packed his Bible so he would feel closer to God.

He served two tours of duty in Iraq and has a near perfect record. But somewhere between the tours, something changed. Hall, now 23, said he no longer believes in God, fate, luck or anything supernatural.

Hall said he met some atheists who suggested he read the Bible again. After doing so, he said he had so many unanswered questions that he decided to become an atheist.

His sudden lack of faith, he said, cost him his military career and put his life at risk. Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety. Watch why Hall says his lack of faith almost got him killed »

In March, Hall filed a federal lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Defense and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, among others. In the suit, Hall claims his rights to religious freedom under the First Amendment were violated and suggests that the United States military has become a Christian organization.

"I think it's utterly and totally wrong. Unconstitutional," Hall said.

Hall said there is a pattern of discrimination against non-Christians in the military.

Two years ago on Thanksgiving Day, after refusing to pray at his table, Hall said he was told to go sit somewhere else. In another incident, when he was nearly killed during an attack on his Humvee, he said another soldier asked him, "Do you believe in Jesus now?"





Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/08/atheist.soldier/index.html

[fasttense]

1. Damn this country sure has changed in 8 years.

Just as I was retiring after 20 years as a naval officer the bush took over our country. I was an Atheist all that time in the Navy and never was threatened or even commented upon. It just didn't matter until the bush took over our country.

[salin]

2. who knew how much could change,

so quickly.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. you phrased that wrong. "No one could have known that . . . ."

ala Condi Rice

[salin]

67. well that is a first...

to be compared to Condi. Lol.

I had an awful sense of bush when very early in his campaign, in 1999 I believe, when he said that "he didn't really care about policy and that policy bored him" - or something to that effect (the policy bored him was very explicit.) As bad as I thought it might be under bushco - before they were first elected - I really had NO idea of how disasterous on so many levels it would be. I mean these guys are horrendous on so many levels, really who could anticipate that it was going to be THIS awful? Even those of us expecting bad, I don't think could have fathomed back in 1999, HOW BAD.

For the record, I first heard Condi speak back in 1993, and I found her to be a sycophantish yes-woman (to her then bosses), and very insulting to those that she was speaking with. Her tenure as a vacuous "yes-man (woman)" and public veracity-challenged, orwellian spokes woman, I could have (and did) predict.

Yet tonight, I find the comparison so absurdly funny, that I won't take any insult.

[The Croquist]

4. We don't have all the facts yet.

For starters I have never been in the service so I have no first hand experience but of course that won't stop me from mouthing off.
The US military is composed of people from many religions and no religion. Among that group will be people who identify themselves with a religion but do not practice it. His complaint that he was asked "Do you believe in Jesus now?" after his Humvee was attacked doesn't strike me as too outrageous. I wonder how many soldiers say prayers at chow time? Soldiers tend to be young men and young men tend not to be overly serious about religion. Why was he singled out?

The allegations that his life was threatened and he was denied promotion over his lack of religious belief are serious accusations but so far we only have his word.

In my opinion the first Amendment doesn't guarantee the right to not be exposed to religion. When I am with friends for dinner and they say grace I remain quiet until they are finished but I don't join in. I have never lost a friend over this. I call my actions being polite just like when I used to hear the Canadian National Anthem at a hockey game, stood and remained silent.

[varun]

6. His is not an isolated case

This is a growing trend. Just last year, Airforce Academy was sued, and many officers reprimanded for open proselytization inside the Academy.

[SaveAmerica]

13. The military assigned him a bodyguard - that sounds pretty serious to me.

This isn't the first post like this at DU, you can do a search and find more from the past few years. And usually in the military you don't rock the boat about stuff, it's taken care of internally. First - you don't talk about this stuff unless it gets to the point that you don't feel safe, then each soldier has a chain of command to channel it through, unless said chain is corroded with religious zealots and then you have to go public. The way they describe this soldier when he first arrived in Iraq doesn't sound like someone who is just going to spout off to make waves.

PS Having people practicing many different religions in the military, including some who do not practice a religion, is not the same as someone saying there ain't no Jesus or God. Them's fighting words to a religious fanatic 'Christian'. Add in an NCO who's looking the other way because he's also got that old time religion, etc, and you'll find yourself in an Army that's not a band of brothers but is every man for himself.

[panzerfaust]

21. US Air Force Academy Used "Former Terrorists" to Proselytize Fundamentalist Christianity to Cadets

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_jason_le_080213_us_air_force_academy.htm
http://www.alternet.org/rights/76686/
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/22/7236/

The US military is becoming the US Christian military - this is especially evident at the Air Force Academy.

Recently I was a contractor on a military base. If you did not go to the prayer meeting every morning, you were actively excluded by those who did: who were mostly officers, and who were most of the higher ranking ones.

[Not the Only One]

30. Bush uses the idea that this war is God's idea to sell it to the soldiers and the public

It's okay to kill the brown people because they are Muslims, just like all of the other vile things we have done against "uncivilized pagans" like Native Americans and the Japanese and Africans.

The military uses the idea of this war being God's will and that they are God's army to increase morale. Bush calls this WOT a "crusade" and he wants the soldiers to be as fired up about killing Muslims as those soldiers in Christian Europe for centuries who battled under banners and flags with crosses on them.

The military is understandably hostile to people who don't believe in ridiculous superstition. Those people are harder to control.

[PatGund]

37. CNN didn't give all the info.....

To nobody's surprise, CNN glossed over this:

http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/jeremy_hall_harassed.html

Among other gems:

"Hall's lawsuit alleges that on August 7, when Hall received permission by an Army chaplain to organize a meeting of other soldiers who shared his atheist beliefs, his supervisor, Army Major Freddy Welborn, broke up the gathering and threatened to retaliate against the soldier by charging him with violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The complaint also alleges that Welborn vowed to block Hall's reenlistment in the Army if the atheist group continued to meet - a violation of Hall's First Amendment rights under the Constitution. Welborn is named as a defendant in the lawsuit.

"During the course of the meeting, defendant Welborn confronted the attendees, disrupted the meeting and interfered with plaintiff Hall's and the other attendees' rights to discuss topics of their interests," the lawsuit alleges.The complaint charges that Hall, who is based at Fort Riley, Kansas, has been forced to "submit to a religious test as a qualification to his post as a soldier in the United States Army," a violation of Article VI, Clause 3 of the Constitution."

Early on the Pentagon said they couldn't find a Major Fred Welborn. Funny, because militaryeligiousfreedom.org found Maj. Welborn's MySpace page.....

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/religious-suit-detailed.h tml

"Welborn, 44, who appears on his MySpace page in his Army uniform, wrote on his MySpace page that he is a devout Christian who received a bachelor's degree in "personal evangelism" and a minor in "Biblical world view" from Temple Tennessee University. He wrote that he is pursuing a second bachelor's degree in Christian studies from Calvary Bible College And Theological Seminary in Kansas City, Missouri. He lists his occupation as "Bible Study--Operation Iraqi Freedom" and wrote that his interest is evangelism and preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

"Currently serving w/3rd Inf Div <3rd Infantry Division> Civil Military Operations (Governance) in Baghdad Iraq," Welborn wrote on his MySpace page. He describes himself as a ""Warrior for the Lord Jesus Christ." He wrote that he and his wife Carla "place all our Faith & Trust in our Savior the Lord Jesus - who provides eternal life to anyone that believes that he is the Son of God, that he was born of a virgin, lived as God in the flesh (as man) was crucified, died, and was buried then rose from the grave the third day, then acended to the right hand of the Father - True repentance (turning away from Sin to God) Being born again, Forgivness & Justification occure to the True Believer in Christ when Baptized w/God's Holy Spirit."

Additionally, Welborn endorses Stephen Mansfield's "The Faith of the American Soldier," a book that defends and praises controversial statements made by retired Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin, the former deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence, who characterized the war on terrorism as a clash between Judeo-Christian values and Satan."

So yeah, there's more to this than CNN lets on

[wmbrew0206]

39. I'd be interested to know if Hall filed an EEO complaint against Welborn

[The Croquist]

45. It sounds like Freddy Welborn is the problem.

The question to be answered is when did the Army find out that he was a religious bigot and what did they do about it? The Chaplin gave permission for Hall's meeting do I don't see that he did anything wrong.
I'm sure that Welborn isn't alone but they have tried to keep things under control in the past. The Air force Academy is an example of that.

It an organization as large as the United States Military you are bound to have bad apples. If you didn't they wouldn't have brigs. The question is does the military try to keep things under control.

[wmbrew0206]

46. An EO Complaint is the avenue that Army would find out what Welborn did and be able to reprimand

him.

If Hall did not file an EO complaint against Welborn, he did not take the formal steps needed to allow the Army to go after Welborn. If Hall just went and reported to the incident to his OIC or Chaplain and they did not encourage him to file an EO complaint, they failed him.

Reading the case, the only thing that Welborn could be charged for is discrimination based on religious beliefs. The way you go about getting someone charged for discrimination is to file an Equal Opportunity Complaint. This complaint is required to go straight to the commanding general who then will appoint an independent investigator to find out what happened. If what Hall says is true, and I have no reason to doubt him, then the investigating officer would find that there is enough evidence to charge Welborn with violating the equal opportunity order and he could be court marshaled.

[atreides1]

59. This sounds like the proper way to go

But do you actually believe that the US Army was going to bring any type of charges against a commissioned officer? You're talking about the same Army that just gave command of a division to a general who was part of a group of officers who were reprimanded for their little "We Love Jesus" documentary that was filmed in the Pentagon while they were on duty and wearing their uniforms!

The same Army that said only a few "bad apples" were responsible for what happened at Abu Ghraib, and the only officer to be charged was acquitted? That Army?

The same Army that insisted that they could find no officer by that name? That Army?

You give the US Army more credit then they actually deserve.

Suppose Hall did try to file a complaint but was rebuffed by his chain of command, or maybe the chaplain that gave him permission to hold his meeting wasn't inclined to speak against a fellow officer. I wish that we knew all of the particulars of this case, but it seems like the media is doing its usual bang up job in reporting all of the facts.

[wmbrew0206]

60. Do I think the Army will bring charges against a Commissioned Officer for an confirmed EO offense?

Absoultely. I've seen it happen and I've also seen it in the Marine Corps.

Also, a military member also has the right to request mast all the way up to the Cheif of Staff of the Army or Air Force, CNO of the Navy, or the CMC.

If a military member feels that their EO complaint was imporperly dealt with they can request mast to go above their commander's head (if he is the bible thumper) and tell his boss that why they think their commander acted imporperly.

[pegleg]

62. All I can say as a believing, practicing Christian is that I wipe my hands

of people like Welborn. I spent 12 years in the military before an injury ended my career, and I never saw anyone harassed about religious belief. Nor was any religion ever forced or prohibited. As a matter of fact I can remember a native American sweat lodge being allowed on base. Doesn't sound like that would go over too well today.

[sarge43]

7. What you said

I was doing the thing in the 60's and 70's. Faith or not was your business; one of the few things that you could keep private. In fact, you expected to do so.

[Liberal Dose]

12. You and I had the same word on our dog tags - NoRelPref nt

:hi:

[varun]

5. The fundies have a captive audience in the military

soldiers who do not question. Who like to follow orders....

what more can you ask?

[wmbrew0206]

10. Probably one of the most offensive comments about the military I've seen on DU.

The military is not filled with people who don't questions orders. Only someone who has never served would make a comment like that.

[Kolesar]

18. "most offensive comment" - then you are easily rankled

Or bored.

[wmbrew0206]

19. Or I served in the military and know that the poster I responed to

clearly has no cle about the military.

[panzerfaust]

22. The WORLD is filled with people who don't question orders

... to claim that the military in general, or The Corps in particular is not, is simply ludicrous.

The USMC that I recall was not real big on grunts asking questions.

Nor did the soldiers at Abu Ghraib seem to be the inquiring kind.

[wmbrew0206]

26. I can tell you that the Marine Corps spends a lot of time going over what is and what isn't

a legal order. If they are spending valuable training time on that, I'd say that aren't expecting the Marines to blindly follow orders.

[J R]

23. I served...

...and yes, blind obedience is expected. Thinking for yourself and/or voicing a dissenting opinion is a punishable offense. I was in the US Army in the 90's and experienced the Christians' strong arm tactics all throughout my career, but I encountered it most intensely during basic training. The US military has become a stronghold for Jeebus fundamentalists.

[varun]

24. I dont have to serve in the military to know this. I have eyes, ears and a brain

I can see how the military officers (high level ones) blindly followed the Bush/Cheney commands to attack Iraq. I see how they "question" the commands after they retire, and not while serving.

If the higher officers are not questioning, what will a soldier do?

[wmbrew0206]

28. That fact that you haven't served means you don't know what to look for or listen for.

You are relying on press reports of specific incidences and then projecting them onto the whole military. This is one case and suddenly the military is "controlled by fundies."

The leading generals are not going to hold a press conference and say they disagree with the POTUS. They will argue what they think should be done during the dicision making process. If they disagree strongly enough with the decision of the POTUS, then they can resign and speak out.

The military recieved a lawful order to attack Iraq. I don't see how that is blindly following orders.

[varun]

32. check reply #23

s/he served.

[wmbrew0206]

35. I was replying to post #24

[Ignis]

36. Plenty of "lawful orders" were executed at Abu Ghraib, eh?

:eyes:

[MindPilot]

63. I served and I think you should have said

"The military is not filled with people who don't questions orders"...and get away with it.

It's a catch 22 because any order given is by definition legal if the person who gave it outranks you. Oh you can question it alright, but don't expect the outcome to be dinner with the Skipper while he says something like "Petty Officer Mindpilot, thank you so much for pointing out where I was wrong."

No you will probably be facing charges; you may be right but you'll be right in the brig.

[Joe Bacon]

8. Christian nuts control the military

Bush and his Republic Party pals have packed the officer ranks with as many wacko Christians as they can get. The upper command is totally infiltrated by Dominionist Christians who want to being on Armageddon by any means necessary!

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation keeps track of the Jesusbots at http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/

[wmbrew0206]

9. Please fill us in on your military branch and your experiences in the military back up that opinion

I servered six years in the Marine Corps and never felt any pressure to express my religious beliefs.

[Orrex]

11. Thank you for your service. Are you a person of faith, or are you atheist?

And when did you serve?

I ask because it's relevant; as an atheist, I frequently feel "pressure to express my religious beliefs" in everyday life, in countless little ways which in the aggregate create a strong sense that I don't belong, that I'm not one of the group.

I can't say whether the military is "controlled" by religion, but it would surprise me to learn that a similar trend was not evident in the military.

[wmbrew0206]

15. I'm Episcoplian and served from '01 to the end of '07.

I don't discuss religion or politics at work and I have noticed that the commands I have served in had that as their unofficail policy. Members weren't discouraged from expressing their beliefs, but I never saw any discrimination based on religious practice or lack of it.

I will say that there are rare occasions that religion is expressed at formal functions, ie the Marine Corps Ball has a prayer before dinner. I have never heard of a Marine getting a hard time for not bowing their head or chosing to excuse themselves during the prayer.

[Orrex]

34. That's refreshing, and encouraging

I've known many who have served, but none of them atheist. Several have described a sort of "religious understanding" by which Christianity was "known" to be the coin of the realm, but not necessarily any moreso than in American society at large.

There've been a number of stories in the media about chaplains overly aggressive in their proselytizing, whether in the service or in the acadamies. And popular culture is awash with "God is on our side" nonsense, including the beloved "no atheists in foxholes" mantra.

I hope that reality is closer to what you describe, and I value the input of someone who's been there to observe the facts directly.

Thanks again!

[SaveAmerica]

16. Your response goes along with what I just wrote (above), there are many different

religions observed in the military but put an atheist alongside a fundamentalist Christian and you'll have something completely different than if you've got someone who's not attending church or observes another religion (unless he/she is a muslim, then I don't know what kind of crazy could happen). Our congressman was quoted as saying that our military is in Iraq to spread Christianity! http://bluenc.com/robin-hayes-says-we-will-win-in-iraq-by-spreading-the-message-of-jesus-christ-there

[wmbrew0206]

17. I can tell you that the US Military is NOT trying to spread Chrisianity in Iraq.

The practice of trying to spread Christianity to the Iraqi people is a charable offense under the UCMJ. I followed your link and your Congressman who said that clealy has no idea of what is going on in Iraq.

The worse thing we can do in Iraq is preach Christianity. There was a case a couple weeks ago of a Marine handing out coins with Christian scripture on them. This Marine was located and hanked out of his COP as soon as his command figured out who he was. He was probably NJP, in leu of court marshal, and probably lost a stripe.

[SaveAmerica]

40. I understand that, and you understand that, but 27% of Americans still think

that George Bush is doing a fine job. I don't know how close that % compares to the number with the same beliefs in the military, but it still is dangerous. That makes their Congressman calling this mission a crusade that much more irresponsible (his district includes counties adjacent to Fort Bragg). I hear what you're saying about there being rules in place to keep these type of instances in check, but we have to admit that the military isn't running rampant with atheist hating fundies, and at the same time there are some that are able to make an atheist in the military fear for his life and the safety of the mission.

[wmbrew0206]

41. Like I said ealier, occasional you get a bible thumper who tries to spread his views

The command normally will step in and tell him to let the Chaplain worry about his/her Marines souls.

If a superior is especially bad about asserting their beliefs on others and threatens a military member with retaliation for their beliefs, then that military member can file a Equal Opportunity Complaint. An EO complaint goes straight to the commanding general and is the recourse a military member can use if he thinks he is being discriminated against.

I posted earlier that I haven't been able to find anything about this case that states Hall filed an EO complaint against this Major who was threatening him. I would like to know if he did and if so what happened with the complaint.

[Squatch]

57. EO complaints go nowhere.

They're useless and just feel-good measures. In fact, "I'm going to file an EO complaint" is a common threat that is taken, on its face, as an absolute joke. They sure as shit do not land on the desks of any commanding generals.

Now, proceedings from courts martial (especially summary and general courts martial) do usually gain the attention of the CO, regardless of the nature of the alleged offense. If a person has been discriminated against, he or she would be better served by avoiding the EO route all-together and just contacting the SJA directly.

[wmbrew0206]

58. That is such complete BS! Every EO complaint is seen by the Commanding General

In the Marine Corps, any EO complaint and the eventual outcome of that complaint has to be sent by the Commanding General of the unit to his Commanding General. The Commandant is eventually briefed on the outcomes of these EO complaints.

I have seen a lot of EO complaints, some legitimate and some not, but they are all taken seriously.

EO complaints are taken EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY and to say they are not and go now where is laughable. I've seen many careers killed by EO complaints.

[Squatch]

61. I'm sure you have the experience to back that up, but I have the *expertise*

I have worked for and currently work with the SJA for one of the Army's divisions. Furthermore, I have been a company commander, a battalion S-3, and an investigating officer on numerous cases of alleged malfeasence.

EO complaints are handled at the lowest level possible. Generals do not want to hear "complaints"...they want to see tangible results. Therefore, if an EO complaint appears to have merit, it is usually handled by the lowest commander (BN or CO) to recommend a course of action, which is usually NJP (non-judicial punishment...aka Article 15). In most cases, EO complaints "die on the vine" and never reach any commanding general's desk.

If you think EO complaints are taken seriously and that EO complaints, in and of themselves, have ruined careers, you are seriously mis-informed.

[wmbrew0206]

65. Most EO complaints do not end up requiring a court marshal as you know.

I know you know this, but I'm spelling it out for others who aren't famailar with the process. BTW, if you were the CG, what punishment would you have given Welborn?

If an EO complaint is not going to result in a court marshal, then the initiating command makes a recommendation, normally a Bn CO, the BCT or RCT CO makes his recommendation, and then it goes to the Commanding General to decide what happens. The CG normally says "I agree" or "I don't agree" with the recommendations. If the CG agrees he can either take action on it himself (unlikely as you stated) or push it down to the BCT or RCT CO, who in turn can handle it or push it down to the Bn CO. If the CG disagrees he can initiate a new investigation or handle the issue himself.

It makes sense that the Bn CO handle the NJP for NCOs or LoR for SNCO or Officers, since that is a function a Bn CO would normally be given. Also, if a CG or RCT CO felt the complaint was serious enough, they could choose to handle issue themselves.

In the Marine Corps, an EO complaint has to reach the CG desk and he is the one who has to take action on it. Like you said, the CG will normally push the decision on punishment back down. But as far as an EO complaint "dying on the vine" before it reaches a general, that is not how it works now.

I've seen EO complaints result in adverse Fitness Reports for officers and SNCOs. For a Marine Officer or SNCO, an adverse fitness report is a career killer.

[Joe Bacon]

44. Then how do you explain all those coins that keep popping up

The Arabic coins with bible verses on them?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/38820.html

[wmbrew0206]

47. Read post #17 where I talked about the coin issue, but I'll summarize

The Coin incident was one isolated incident where one Marine was handing out these coins. The Marine Corps figured out who he was in about a day and then pulled the him out of his COP and probably NJP'd him.

They probably pulled him out of his COP for his own personal safety. Iif his fellow Marines found out that he was handing out coins to try and convert Iraqis, they would have beaten the crap out of him.

[Kolesar]

27. Christian nut

[Joe Bacon]

43. Did you look at the Military Religious Freedom Foundation site?

There are plenty of examples on that web page of religious nuts being given a blank check by the upper echelon of the Armed Forces.

[wmbrew0206]

54. According to MRFF's founder he has recieved over 8000 complaints about this issue

That seems like a lot, but when you compared that to the overall size of the military,approximately 1 million, it comes out to .8%.

So less than one percent of the total military population feels that they have been discriminated against due to religion. Out of the .8%, how many filed EO complaints?

The real question that we need to be asking here is "How many filed EO complaints and feel that their Command did not take approriate action becuase the Commander's personal religious beliefs were the same as the accused?"

[blueatheart]

64. misleading...

First, atheist are used to shutting up as they are a minority. They need to believe or realize an injustice has occurred. Then, they have to know about MRFF and how to contact them about a complaint. Next they actually have to think it is worth it to complain and make the effort to do so. Do you honestly believe every single person in this world follows up on every injustice they incurred?

So, 8000 is not really a small amount.

[wmbrew0206]

66. Your argument isn't accurate either

Neither of us can prove that there were more incidents than the ones this organization claims.

We also don't know how many of the complaints that this organization received are legit.

I'm willing to accept 8000 as a number since makes up for some incidents that weren't reported and also probably includes complaints that are legitimate.

[Squatch]

50. I have been in the Army for the past 12 years and I've never

demanded that ANYBODY show proof of military service in order to form and utter an opinion on that topic. It's intellectually lazy to dismiss a person's comments on the military simply on the fact that she/he had not served.

[wmbrew0206]

52. It is also intellectually lazy to make a broad statement about an organization

that is made up of approximately 1 million people based off a few instances.

If the poster has been part of the orginazition and had multiple experiences to back up their braod statement, I think it is relevent to the conversation.

[Squatch]

55. Experience is not a prerequisite to forming and making an opinion

I've never "experienced" the bottom of the ocean, but I am more than able to make broad generalizations about it.

[wmbrew0206]

56. OK, I'll refine that. Experience is needed for a well educated opinion

To say that the military is controled by a bunch of religious nuts, when the organization tracks complaints says there the incident level is less than one percent, is not a well informed opinion.

[derby378]

14. Anyone who read THE SHORT-TIMERS or watched FULL METAL JACKET knows...

Specialist Hall may be what some in the Army would refer to as "silly and ignorant," but he's got guts - and guts is enough to get you far in the military.

[paparush]

20. They want ALL of thier killing done in their god's name. Nice.

[Love Bug]

25. I think there is more to this than we are being told

I'm curious to know what this guy was doing to bring so much attention to himself. I don't doubt for one minute the overly-religious can be obnoxiously pushy, but how did they know of his beliefs? Is this all just because he refused to say grace? There must be more to it than that, although there is no justification for anyone to try to limit someone's beliefs.

I hope he succeeds in his suit, not just for the non-religious, but also for those who practice religions out of the mainstream, such as Wiccans. In 1999, a group of Wiccans in Ft. Hood, TX were harassed by some local church for practicing their rituals. At the time the Army was accommodating them and stood up for them, but then GA congressman Bob Barr tried to get the Army to change their mind. Remember this when complimenting Barr as a Libertarian. He's only a Libertarian unless it's over an issue he disagrees with, just like Ron Paul and abortion rights.

[panzerfaust]

29. Here is a bit more ...

From: http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/new-federal-lawsuit.html

..."It is beyond despicable, indeed wholly unlawful, that the United States Army is actively attempting to destroy the professional career of one of its decorated young fighting soldiers, with 2 completed combat tours in Iraq, simply because he had the rare courage to stand up for his Constitutional rights and guarantees of separation of church and state against a superior officer who was forcefully attempting to intimidate him into accepting fundamentalist Christianity."

"Our new Federal lawsuit will show the almost incomprehensible national security risks to America and the world as a result of the destruction of the wall separating Church and State in the United States armed forces. The United States military is actively engaged in a pernicious and pervasive pattern and practice of unconstitutional rape of the precious religious freedoms of our honorable and noble sailors, soldiers, airmen, marines, national guard, reservists and veterans. This evil is a noxious, institutional force-feeding of fundamentalist Christianity by our nation's military command structure in complete defiance of the United States Constitution."

[varun]

31. I am not surprised

I felt discriminated as a non Christian in a southern University (a place where we challenge authority). I had to call ACLU to show the "authorities" what they were doing wrong.

Army and military are "conformist" institutions. If this is happening in a University, I can only imagine what happens in the military.

[Love Bug]

33. Ah, I see now. For that officer to proselytize is an abuse of his authority.

eom

[Nevernose]

38. Athesists are discrminated against all the time, in every profession

And in every situation. And I mean discrimination in the same ways that other groups are discriminated against. There's a lot of data to back this up. A good primer can be found at http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistactivism/p/PrejudiceBigots.htm . Click the links for subpages with lots more detail.

[Stump]

42. No doubt...

I have to hide my agnosticism, or else... No doubt my career would immediately dead-end as I work in fundie-land.

[fascisthunter]

48. How Prevalent are Christian Extremists in the Military?

[wmbrew0206]

49. They are probably about as prevalent as they are in America Society as a whole

The military is a solid cross section of American society as a whole, give or take a few percentages here or there.

[Squatch]

51. They're quite common.

In fact, I have met more religious extremists in the military than in general society.

[fascisthunter]

53. well... they are the most unquestioning of all the folks in society

Over the last several years I have heard that this is becoming a major issue in the military... I hate drawing parrallels but this happened in Germany too back in the day. Very cult-like types infiltrated very high positions in government and the military.