Groups rally against extended smoking ban in Dallas

[WriteDown]

Source: Dallas Morning News

A coalition of tavern industry, limited government and smokers' rights advocates say they'll battle efforts under way by Dallas politicians and health organizations to expand the city's public smoking ban to bars and pool halls.

"It's a small group of people trying to have their utopia at our expense," said John Barton, manager of tobacco shop Up In Smoke, during a rally Tuesday at Dallas' Havana Social Club cigar and rum bar. "We're going to meet this head-on. What's happening here – this is socialism. This is communism."

Kathy Grant, a spokeswoman for the Amusement & Music Operators of Texas, called on the Dallas City Council to protect smokers' right to puff freely in "adult venues without children present."

Two other organizations – the Americans for Prosperity Foundation and Greater Dallas Bar & Tavern Coalition – also went on record opposing an expanded Dallas smoking ban, which today includes most public workplaces and restaurants.



Read more: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/080608dnmetsmokingban.3e43ecf.html

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Here we go!

[jdlh8894]

1. The smoke is ready to hit the fan!

[ixion]

2. Good. Fight back. Fight back hard.

Anti-smoking zealots need to be stopped. :woohoo:

[jdlh8894]

4. How 'bout

Affirmative Action for smokers?

[ixion]

5. Like so many things, smoking needs to be tolerated and/or embraced, just

like all other human traits that one group or another deems offensive. I put anti-smoking zealots in the same category as those who are opposed to gay marriage. They're both attempts to legislate human behavior, and therefore deeply misguided, IMO.

[Tikki]

7. Yeah, I used to think I was born smoking....

Then my grandchild came into this world without a cigarette
in his mouth...I got the picture, finally, and I quit.

Tikki

[jdlh8894]

8. Still can't understand

why it is not up to the property onwer (bar, Restaurant , whatever) to allow or not

[onehandle]

11. Gay marriage doesn't spray poison into the air.

If I fire bullets into a crowd, can I claim it's a "human trait?"

[Regret My New Name]

26. well...

stupidity is a human trait, no? :P

[Critters2]

50. Apparently. nt

[Regret My New Name]

25. lol... smoking is comparable to skin colour, gender and sexual preference?

Yeah, I dunno about that... I don't think many people popped out of the womb with a cigarette in their mouths.. I may be mistaken though, I can't keep track of everything...

I'm actually against banning smoking in bars, but I'm not so sure about equating smoking with such things.

[dbonds]

12. God damn smokers think they can pollute the air with toxic chemicals.

(Just responding in kind to your hate filled post - with somewhat sarcasm)

[ixion]

41. hate? no, too strong. very annoyed and disappointed? yep

that would be closer to my feelings. thanks! :hi:

[truebrit71]

27. Hell yeah they do!!!

...

[snooper2]

3. Oh just fucking great...

Plano, Richardson, now Dallas...

Great...I guess we will have to drive to Bedford to have a happy hour after work

[WriteDown]

6. No kidding....

I am not sure where I'll have to go at this point to have a good drink and a smoke.

[onehandle]

9. Give it up. Total public smoking bans are inevitable.

Congress declaring cigarettes a drug is just about the last "coffin nail."

Bar owners should prepare for the future.

[jdlh8894]

10. Bar owners should prepare for the future

Meaning what? Lose their property? Come try to take MINE because I allow smoking!!! You won't like the results.

[frylock]

13. we don't have bars in california anymore thanks to the smoking ban..

yep -- they just had close their doors because nobody would come to their establishment anymore. :eyes:

[Indenturedebtor]

14. They should ban alcohol in bars too. Alcohol leads to loud obnoxious violent behavior

It's also been known to cause acute "Holycrapshe'suglywhy'ssheinmybed?!?!?" syndrome.

Seriously though I don't go to bars anymore, part of that is because I can't smoke. Horrible to drink and not be able to smoke.

[jdlh8894]

17. Thanks for the laugh!

Chewed my arm off a few times!!!

[WriteDown]

18. Truer words were never spoke...

Nothing like a cigarette and a good glass of whiskey with friends.

[Regret My New Name]

29. Ohhh that will open new business opportunities... 'smoke easies'?

bummer... smoke easy is already a common term... I thought I was being creative.

[DailyGrind51]

15. Let Righties smoke, it thins the heard!

[flamin lib]

16. Here's the deal folks. Smoking is bad for everybody that gets near it.

You can't drink in your car. You can't shoot up in your home. You can't smoke in other public places, why can you smoke in bars?

I quit 25 years ago--amend that, I stopped smoking the last time 25 years ago because I quit many times before that. While I was a smoker I thought all those non-smoking whiners were just being babies and obnoxious. After a year I understood just how bad the odors of smoke are and that they linger in clothes, on surfaces and in the air.

About 22% of Americans smoke. In places where smoking is heavy, like bars, non-smokers are acutely uncomfortable. The reason bar owners and such oppose smoking bans is because their patrons are chasing away 88% of their potential customers. My city banned smoking is all public buildings and within 25 feet of entrances. Restaurants could have smoking sections only if they had a totally separate ventilation system. Restaurant owners opposed the ban thinking it would drive customers to neighboring cities. It didn't happen. Business didn't fall off.

Smoke in your own home if you want to but understand that when it comes time to sell it you've ruled out 88% of potential buyers. Smoke in your car if you want, but understand that you'll get a lot less in trade-in because 88% of the potential buyers won't want it.

Your rights stop at my nose. You do not have the right to deprive 88% of the non-smoking public of pubic venues.

I've been there I'm telling you that you simply do not understand how bad smoking smells, forget the 19 known carcinogens you leave lying around after you leave.

Flame on!

[WriteDown]

19. Sounds like you....

have a great opportunity to open a non-smoking bar then. Should make huge profits since there are so few. Right? Right???

[flamin lib]

22. Point remains that none of the restaurants in my town lost business.

Point also remains that while I respect and will defend the rights of the minority to do what they please your rights still end at my nose. Smokers have the right to smoke if they please but they don't have the right to deny me access to public venues. Smokers can choose not to smoke in public places but non-smokers cannot choose not to breathe.

Ban smoking is bars and bars will still operate profitably.

[WriteDown]

How is a bar a public venue?

It is a private business. If I am allergic to peanuts and shellfish, should all restaurants in my area stop serving peanuts and shellfish? If there is such a clamor for non-smoking bars, then someone should just open a non-smoking bar. Does not seem that difficult.

[flamin lib]

28. If a bar is open to the public it is a public venue. If it is a private club

it can discriminate based on race or religion, if it is a public business it can't. If it is open to the public at large it cannot and is considered a public venue.

There is no clamor for non smoking bars because the smokers have chased all the non smokers away leaving bar owners to believe that only smokers drink.

You can choose not to eat peanuts or shellfish, I can't choose not to breathe.

Look, I know where smokers are coming from because I was one for 35 years. What smokers, including me when I was one, don't realize is that all the hoopla over how obnoxious the addiction is isn't fake. It really does stink. I didn't know it back in the day because I stank along with my addiction. It stinks bad enough that many non smokers won't enter an establishment that allows smoking.

I don't want to force anyone not to smoke, why is it so important for smokers to force me to forgo a public place? Smoke at home.

[WriteDown]

33. That is nonsense....

A private business is just that. You have no right to be served in any bar. Ever see a place that says "No shoes, no shirt, no servic?" I actually was in Wilmington, NC when a non-smoking bar was opened. It lasted for a short period of time and then closed down due to lack of business. Its not like these ideas haven't been tried before.

Actually, severe peanut allergy sufferers cannot be in the same room as peanuts. The allergens become airborne and can cause severe shock or death.

I am actually a non-smoker, but I support the right to smoke a legal substance if the bar wants to allow it.

[jdlh8894]

30. but they don't have the right to deny me access to public venues

The problem is that these are PRIVATE, not Public owned properties
I can allow ANYBODY on MY property. I can (by law) keep you out!!

[MadHound]

36. Not necessarily true

In my nearby city they enacted a smoking ban in all bars and restaurants, and in the year and a half since then, at least three bars have gone out of business due to the smoking ban, and all of the remaining ones have seen a serious loss in revenue. Meanwhile, the bars that are out in the county have seen a commiserate rise in their business.

If I own a business I have the right to decide whether it is a smoking or non-smoking establishment. My business isn't a "public venue" it is a private business, and if you wish to patronize my establishment, then you need to abide by my rules, whether it is about smoking or carrying guns or what have you. Instead, there is this big push to tell private business owners what they can and can't allow into their business, I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

This sort of banning is just one more step along the road to banning smoking altogether, and we really saw how Prohibition worked out the first few times we tried it:eyes:

No smoking in public buildings, sure. But let the individual business owner decide if they want smoking in their establishment or not. Then the customer can decide whether or not they want to patronize that business, you know, the market at work and all.

[tpsbmam]

42. Does that go for perfume, too? Just curious....

Not sure I agree with your entire post but I do agree with much of it. But where does it end? I can't claim allergy to perfumes (as far as I know), but i have been near people in enclosed spaces that have caused me to have to leave the area -- sometimes I've even started to feel nauseous. Most perfume reeks to me, including some of the ridiculously expensive stuff. If it's piled on enough, I've been in places (including having someone at the next table in a restaurant) where it's so noxious to me that my eyes start watering. When it's in a restaurant, it's been so bad once in awhile that I can't really smell my food and my taste buds are affected. So where does ending at one's nose stop?

I find the ends at your lungs argument much more effective. I agree with that one. I don't agree with legislating it in all settings, though. I live in the Asheville area. There are smoking and non-smoking restaurants and bars. And there are some that allow smoking after certain hours (usually those that have restaurants in one area and a bar in another -- smoking is allowed in the bars after the restaurant typically clears out). You don't want to go to a smoking bar, don't go -- there are plenty where smoking isn't allowed.

[jdlh8894]

20. No flame -- just a math situation.

22+88 = WHAT?

[flamin lib]

21. Yeah, I'm math challenged. Made one mistake and copied it.

Still 78% is more than 22%.

[jdlh8894]

23. Kind of figured that was it

Not trying to be an a$$,but shouldn't owners be able to decide if they want smoking in THEIR building? Those that don't want the smell(or whatever)can go elsewhere.

[flamin lib]

32. By that reasoning owners should be allowed to ignore vermin and other

health issues. How long will a bar operate if it has an infestation of rats? Is it legal for a municipality to regulate the condition of private businesses?

Seems so.

[Regret My New Name]

31. hmmm let's see here... carry the 5, multiply by 8 raise to the power of 2... divide by zero...

aww crap. I give up.

[jdlh8894]

34. You forgot the Square Root!

Oh hell, let's just find a werewolf in London.

[Regret My New Name]

37. I heard Kid Rock stole the werewolf and took him to Alabama.

[NashVegas]

24. Public Venues Vs Private

A nightclub is a private venue.

[onehandle]

35. If it was that easy, then bars could just use that in court.

And no smoking ban would work anywhere.

There are laws that always override that argument.

[NashVegas]

39. I'm Not Sure

Shopping malls are able to kick people out for wearing political t-shirts, if they choose.

[Taverner]

40. Indoors, you are correct. Outdoors, not so

[onehandle]

43. Really? Are there magic fairies collecting the poison from the air outdoors?

Because when I walked out a local mall earlier today, and walked through the pack of oh-so-cool teenyboppers puffing away, my nose said otherwise.

When I'm walking down a sidewalk and there's a person walking along in front of me smoking... Nope, no fairies there either.

Even when I have my vehicle's windows open, the cigarette smell coming in from the vehicle in front of me discounts that theory as well.

[jdlh8894]

45. First of all

You said you were at a mall.
How many AC units were being used?
Did you drive there?
How much crap did you put in the air?
Are you wearing perfume (or after shave lotion)?
How much crap did you put in the air?

[onehandle]

47. The "lots of things are baaaad" defense.

Gotta start somewhere. Why not with the addictive drug that serves no purpose?

[Taverner]

51. So you have no sympathy for the addicted?

Or respect for those who choose to be addicted?

Honestly - you may not agree with their decisions to smoke but it is their choice, not yours. Respect choice.

My recommendation - stay 10 feet away from them.

[Taverner]

46. Yes, only we science types call it 'wind'

Just because you can smell a whiff of cigarettes doesnt mean they are killing you

I smell gas every time I gas up - does that mean I'm getting killed by those noxious fumes?

[onehandle]

48. Ever notice that little federally mandated sign on gas pumps?

Gasoline vapors are carcinogenic. I read an article a while back that recommended stepping ten feet away and upwind after you start your gas pumping.

I took the advice.

And it's not just about cancer. Pollution of all types add complications to illnesses as you age.

Including passive cigarette smoke.

[Taverner]

49. Good advice, but you could still smell gas 10 feet away

And the Smoker in the car next to you is 10 feet away as well.

More likely, the exhaust from the other cars around you is more dangerous than the cigarette.

[jpak]

38. Another Dreaded Nanny State thread??? *YAWN*

cigar chomping dittoheads can suck it

[jdlh8894]

44. Well

If they're Chomping, they are not sucking!