Davis Recall Group Claims 1.4M Signatures

[newyawker99]

Organizers of a Republican-led effort to oust Democratic Gov. Gray Davis declared Tuesday that they have 1.4 million signatures - more than enough to force a recall election in the fall.

"An election's going to happen here pretty quick," said Tom Hiltachk of Rescue California Recall Gray Davis.

The effort needs 897,158 valid signatures - 12 percent of the number of voters in the previous California election - to get on the ballot.

The signatures collected will be sent to county election officials to be verified. They will report the results to the secretary of state on July 23. If the secretary of state certifies that enough signatures have been gathered, an election must be called within 60 to 80 days.

davis recall

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. To all California DUers

I understand that there is a great deal of frustration with Governor Davis and some of you would like to see him ousted.
I would remind you that if the Republicans were in this situation they would all unite behind their candidate. Just see how the conservatives have united behind Bush. Remember what Reagan said, "Never speak badly of a fellow Republican".

Remember the energy crisis!!! That was due to the Bushistas Enron friends, not Gray Davis!!!
And, do you really want a Republican in the Governors office. They are the one's that started this whole thing
in the first place.

So before shooting yourself in the foot consider this!!!.

:)

[shanti]

32. as a california voter

you are preaching to the choir. i have every intention of voting (again) for davis if he should be recalled.

[Hobarticus]

2. Don't like an election result?

Just make up your own! It's the Neue American way!

[Pax Argent]

3. The poor benighted sheep

With the collapse of the dot-coms, 9-11's bite on tourism, and Bush & Co.s shenanigans with the energy crisis, California has been hurt badly (dare I say, a trifecta?). While Davis is less than awe-inspiring, most of this has not been his fault.

It makes you wonder what's going to happen when the next person gets the thankless job of being the governor of our fair state. Without the ability to raise revenue (i.e. taxes, fees, etc), California is going to remain in the toilet in regards to education and services.

[Hobarticus]

5. You're right...

...but they'll blame it on Davis, even if they botch recovery attempts. Two years later, if the economy doesn't rebound, they'll still be blaming him.

And the only people who'll get hurt are the citizens.

Sounds familiar.

[EconomicsDude]

20. Grrr....

...and Bush & Co.s shenanigans with the energy crisis.....

Please, this is just not the case. I know it is a popular belief, but it is just that a belief. There were noticable problems prior to the big meltdown in the late summer of 2000. Further, the big meltdown started in 2000 and Clinton didn't do anything either.

By the time Bush got in office the crisis was well underway and it was actually the FERC under Bush that finally solved the problem.

You can see some of the evidence of the problems here at the Cal ISO's website.

http://www.caiso.com/surveillance/overview/Committee.html

That is the website for the Market Surveillance Committee which was to keep an eye out for market power. This report in particular is revealing, IMO

http://www.caiso.com/docs/09003a6080/04/30/09003a60800430ed.pdf

In the report is this bit:

An indication of how prices can spike, even during conditions of moderate aggregate demand, is found in the movement of energy and ancillary services prices on October 1, 1999, the day the price cap in the ISO’s real-time energy and ancillary services markets was raised to $750/MWH. On this day, Path 15, the primary transmission path between northern and southern California, was de-rated to 900MW in the south to north direction for most hours of the day. In addition, the California-Oregon Intertie (COI) was congested in the north to south direction. This circumstance led to day-ahead energy prices in the NP15 congestion zone of close to $700/MWH in four hours of the day. Price spikes also occurred in the NP15 ancillary services markets for Spinning and Non-Spinning Reserve for several hours during the day. A detailed discussion of the events in all ISO and PX markets on October 1, 1999 is given in Section 3.G of the October Report.

What these guys are saying is that one of the big problems was the lack of a demand response due to the rate freeze that was put in place by AB 1890.

Also, AB 1890 which brought about deregulation was supported by Repubs and Dems, and the vote on the bill was unanimous. This was a problem tht nobody can really avoid taking some of the blame.

Although to be fair to Davis, he didn't sign AB1890 and he was only Lt. Gov. at the time. Still he was very late in responding to the crisis and his refusal to remove the retail rate freeze allowed prices to be pushed up even higher making the crisis in some ways worse.

So Davis deserves some blame, but not all of the blame. And there is plenty of blame to go around. Hell, even the voters deserve part of the blame. Term limits have ensured that the legislators that are in office are woefully under-informed about issues. Back during the height of the crisis, have of the time was just spent informing the legislators how the market was setup and designed to work!

[Pax Argent]

28. Great response!!

I've wondered what the lead-up to the late 2000-early 2001 fiasco was. I recalled (bad word in this thread!) there being blackouts during the summer of 2000, but I didn't remember the whole price-gouging thing starting until Bush got "elected". I remember the whole thing coming unglued about November-December of that year (we were told not to have Christmas lights for fear of a blackout). Yes, this was under Clinton's watch, but he was a lame duck at the time with a largely Republican congress. I'm not sure what he could have done.

Why I place this largely in Bush's lap is that the energy companies doing the gouging were out of state, and California wasn't the only state getting reamed. I don't know enough about energy regulation across state lines to say if what they were doing was fraud, but it sure looked that way, and the impression that I got was that the current administration was aiding and abetting by invoking market forces and telling us that the energy problem was the fault of our cell phone cradles (remember the call by Cheney and Co. to go after these "energy vampires")!

Its also an interesting coincidence that about the time that Enron and the others were raping the whole west coast, Enron was fighting going down the toilet. Maybe its tinfoil time, but I think that Bush's laissez faire attitude towards the whole thing at first was his way of trying to subsidize some breathing space for his boy Kenny at Enron. Unfortunately the west coast wasn't quiet about the whole thing and the money stolen wasn't enough to stop their fall.

Thanks again for the thoughtful response!
R

[LiberalFighter]

24. Raise revenue?? Taxes? Fees?

No way...

They will follow in monkey boy's steps and have tax cuts!

[Bandit]

4. Hey coups work.

America is doomed if this is allowed to happen. Any democrat will be subject to a recall if enough republicans sign the petition. And we all know how the voting works and if there is any doubt just throw it to the extreme Court.

[JonasQuinn]

6. I have a question about the procedures for a recall.

I haven't gotten a good answer about it. From what I understand, if this gets on the ballot, the ballot will include something like the following:

1. Should the current governor be removed from office?
2. Which of the following candidates should replace him?


My question is this: if you vote NO on the first question, do you still get to vote on the second question? In other words, should the second question be:

2. Regardless of your vote on question 1, if the governor is recalled, which of the following candidates should replace him?

Regardless of the outcome of this recall effort, I think the California legislature needs to make some changes in these procedures, like maybe making it similar to Louisana Senatorial races -- have a bunch of candidates on the initial ballot, then have a run-off 6 weeks later if no one gets >50%. That way they could avoid having someone elected with only 22% of the vote.

[aquart]

13. That's what my sister is screaming about.

If she votes NO, she doesn't get a vote for the next governor. It stinks. Reeks. Smells like a Bush.

[LiberalFighter]

26. If it is NO then it should count as a vote for Davis

nt

[sam sarrha]

7. cant win ...for losing...

the republicans initiated the energy deregulation because it will create competition and yak yak yak yak.. then the Shrubs enron buddies lay into our pocket books like a bunch of monkeys at a salad bar.. here in el paso, tx they have been investigating or not investigating the collusion of pipeline charges enron style, a company here raised charges for their little part of the Pipe 2,800 times of that before the deregulation. so the republicans set us up for a fall, then GOUGE big time and shut down plants in the summer for "REPAIRS" which you dont schedual at the busiest time of the year..to create a really really big artificial shortage and raise prices so high the state is literally bankrupted.. then start pointing fingers at the democrats as the problem, and the media on the right wing leash bangs the drum all the way to the gallows where freedom and the american way will be hung to the chears of the DC Fascists.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

8. Ban the Recall Election:

Last November the people of California re-elected Gray Davis, that's right, they RE-ELECTED him!
I do not belive that the recall election should exist. A law should be passed banning this! What this recall election law says in effect is that if you do not like the choice you have made then you should be given a second chance!
If you get a second chance for this then why not get a second chance for everything that you do. If you make a mistake, even one that has grave consequenses(which cannot be reversed), you do not get a second chance.


DEMOCRATS IN 04' :kick:

[Hobarticus]

10. There's a measure that should be on a ballot!

Ban Recall Elections!!!

[EconomicsDude]

21. Unfortunately it is...

...the law. So long as the recall people cross all their t's and dot all their i's there isn't much that can be done to stop the recall. Although I have little doubt a "Davis supporter" will file a lawsuit, which of course Davis will have "little knowledge of". }(

[lazarus]

9. however

The odds are pretty good a large proportion of those signatures are fake.

[Hobarticus]

11. What about the certification?

Isn't there something about the timing of the certification of all the signatures, how it could take too long for the measure to be passed? i heard something in passing, anybody know?

[EconomicsDude]

22. Yes...

...which is why they have collected almost 2x the number necessary to recall Davis. The number necessary is just under 900,000 with 1.4 million they have room to chuck around 500,000 signatures as not being legit.

So don't pin your hopes on enough signatures will be tosed.

[lazarus]

39. heh

roughly half again as many sigs as they need, not twice.

I haven't pinned my hopes to anything. I'm doubtful the sigs will go through, but whatever. I do not see Davis losing, however. Too many Republicans in California are as opposed to it as Dems.

[no_arbusto]

30. Yep.

I am going to school in CA right now, although I am officially a PA resident. I was approached at a local store to sign the recall petition. I didn't, and gave the kid shit about recalling Bush instead. Anyways, what if someone like me signs the petition? I am not a resident and I am registered to vote in PA. Who will verify this information?

[jab105]

12. Has this ever happened before?

I'm not up on history of this kind of thing, can anyone enlighten me?

[EconomicsDude]

25. AFAIK...

...not any time recently. Almost every governor has had a recall effort, but all have sputtered and died. This one however has a wildly unpopular gov., a major state crisis, and a well financed recall drive.

Here is a website that has lots of info.

http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_recall_faqs.htm

Apparently there have been 31 previous recall attempts and none of them have succeeded.

[Tempest]

34. There was one successful recall of a governor

It was in Montana during the 1930s or 1940s.

[slackmaster]

37. Only one Governor has ever been recalled in US history

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/text/2003/jul/07/070708521.html

[LeftCoast]

14. Howdy folks! A CAlifornian here

There were some questions thrown out to Californians in general so I thought I'd answer them from my perspective.

I am a CA Dem who voted for Davis (both times), though less enthusiastically the second. He's mediocre in terms of what I want from a governor, but in the grand scheme of things when you compare him to any potential Republican he's miles ahead of them.

As to the recall. At this point, I sure as hell don't want to get rid of it. The repukes have let this genie out of the bottle. No matter how this turns out, the next Rep Governor is going to be recalled. If by chance Davis loses the recall and a Repub gets elected, expect to see another real recall within 1 year.

The recall goes as follows. First question: recall Davis Yea/Nay? Second Question: Pick a replacement. No matter how you vote, you still pick a replacement in case the recall succeeds. Otherwise you would be effectively disenfranchised.

I plan on voting against the recall. I also plan on actively getting as many folks as I can to the polls. Voter turnout is really really important. I think the Davis folks have this thing worked out so that the recall happens at the same election as the Pres. Primary. If it happens any earlier than this potentially BIG PROBS for Davis.

The Sec'y of State is currently using a loophole to delay the vote count. As you stated:

The signatures collected will be sent to county election officials to be verified. They will report the results to the secretary of state on July 23. If the secretary of state certifies that enough signatures have been gathered, an election must be called within 60 to 80 days.

However, it doesn't say specifically WHEN the Sec'y of State has to count the ballots. I'm not sure of the exact terminology of the law, but I believe it gives him till Aug 30th to count.

Davis is an incredibly savy polititian. This is by no means a done deal.

on edit: the recall has been attempted 31 times since it was established (1906?).

[Democat]

15. Another recall should be started the day after the election

If any Republican wins, he or she must be recalled within a month of the election to make a point. There are plenty of Democrats in California and getting 1 million signatures in a month should be no problem.

There should be no question that any Republican who tries to steal the election will be recalled immediatly, without exception.

[Hobarticus]

16. Dirty pool....

...but I like it.

[tlb]

42. Politics by spite ?

"Another recall should be started the day after the election"

That will sure go a long way in proving to California voters the democrats are the party best able to run the state. Maybe a more mature idea might be to offer the voters better, more competent candidates in future elections. Of ocurse, if all the California party has to offer is spite, I guess it just will have to do.

Davis has been a bad investment. As much trouble as California seems to be in, the best thing the voters could do is cut him off and replace him with someone from either party who might be more interested in governing then in squeezing more " contributions" from the California business groups and government unions.

As for doing away with the recall, that is probably a good idea. It's certainly messy and leads to the sort of paralytic ill will I am replying to, and that's suicidal in modern times. ( Ask Newt Gingrich if you don't believe me. ) But bear in mind it was a reform given to Ca by the oldtime progressives. Power to the people you know. As someone above pointed out its been used over 30 times already, including against Reagan. I wish people would please give the "coup" hyperbole and paranoia a rest.

[GRClarkesq]

17. The election will be held and Davis will win

The recall petition people must be confident of their signature count if they are stopping early. I believe the recall election will be held. Arnold will stay home. Davis will win as long as no major Dem steps into the ring, which looks likely.

Note Bush has stayed above the fray. He is not putting his prestige on the line for a halfwit like Issa who is going down in defeat. Bush's eye is on the prize, all those electoral votes in 04. I bet he thinks backing the doomed recall effort would hurt him in 04, so he is staying away.

I dont think the recall election needs to be outlawed, how often do you see a succesful recall? For a governor I think it was ND in 1921, and I'm not sure that was sucessful.

[webtrainer]

33. when recall election occurs state'll be in bad shape . . .

so that's why I agree that Davis will win. The repubs are shooting down each dem proposal in sacto while not providing an alternative themselves. When services are no longer available people will vote for the party that believes in services for the people.

[twilight]

18. let them claim whatever they want

Reality is this:

Lots of problems with this 'process' of theirs!

They are guilty of VOTER FRAUD among other things.

How many fake/dupe signatures might there be?

Do they have to verify every single signature? If so, they are in BIG trouble.

The anti-recall people has a stack of issues similar to the above that they are planning to use as ammo against these idiots.

Recalling Davis will only cost a lot of money. What good can this do in 2 years? Answer: None exept disenfranchize voters that care not to vote in this stupid recall.

The whole thing sucks!!!!!


:dem:

[EconomicsDude]

19. Just a reminder...

...the Democrats do not have to put forward just Davis. In fact, the field is wide open from what I have heard. That is anybody with enough signatures can get on the ballot. So maybe somebody like Feinstein will step forward.

This doesn't have to be a Democratic loss, but simply a loss for Davis.

[mitchtv]

27. that would have Dems voting for recall too

very dangerous to put foward a competeing Dem. It insures the recall of a Dem but not the win of a Dem.

[Tempest]

35. Feinstein, among other Democrats, have already said they won't be running

Davis will be the only Democrat, and the Repugs will shoot themselves in the foot by running too many candidates.

[rocketdem]

23. Who the hell came up with this law?

Twelve percent the electorate from the previous election?

Typically you get less than 50% turnout for an election so you're talking about less than 6% of the electorate holding the other 94% hostage just because they're pissed off. That's ridiculous. It's certainly not very democratic (but then, nobody has ever accused the GOP of being in favor of democracy).

[cboy4]

29. Hmmm, I wonder if

Kathleen Harris will charter a big moving truck and ship all of her crooked Florida voting machines here to California to make sure the GOP hijacks another election?
This whole recall crap is outrageous.

[newyawker99]

31. Hi cboy4!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[cboy4]

36. Thanks!!!

:bounce:

[hotphlash]

38. Hmmm...so if the economy tanks under a Democrat's watch...

it's the Democrats fault? But if a Repug f-s things up, then its a Democrats fault too?

Wasn't Deregulation a Pete Wilson issue?
Wasn't the power crisis caused in part by Enron?
Wasn't it Dubya the Scumbag who refused to bail California out of this mess caused in part by his Golf Buddy Ken Lay?
Didn't a Republican LOSE the last election for the Governorship?
Don't Republicans HATE HOLLYWOOD CELEBRITIES IN POLITICS?

I'm so EFFING PISSED. Bring EM ON!!!!!!!!!!

Grey Davis in '04!
:grr:

[farmbo]

40. Ohio's Governor lied harder and longer...but no millionaire's after him!

You California'ns are being manipluated by the Moneymen and you ought to throw up the BULLSHIT flag! Every state has been shackled bt Bush's rob-the-poor-pay-the-rich tax scheme, and all states are broke.

I live in Ohio and our Governor (Taft, R) lied himself silly during the campaign. He used his corporate $$$millions to attack his Democratic opponent, Tim Hagan, as "Tax Hike Tim" and won in November. Then, after he was sworn in, he revealed that our state was BROKE...billions in the red! And...get this... he ordered state sales tax hikes!!!

The Republican legislature signed on and now we are totally screwed!!!

The only difference between Ohio and California is: You have a slug-bait GOP millionaire who is paying $5 a pop for recall signatures... and we have a state full of Happy Idiots.

[cboy4]

41. That's a great last line LOL