US, Russia anchor military ships in Georgian ports

[gi4obama]

Source: The Fremont Tribune

BATUMI, Georgia - A U.S. military ship loaded with aid docked at a southern Georgian port Wednesday, and Russia sent three missile boats to another Georgian port as the standoff escalated over a nation devastated by war with Russia.

Georgia's government said its short war with Russia had caused $1 billion in damages, while European leaders called the Kremlin's moves in two breakaway Georgian regions an unacceptable attempt to unilaterally redraw the map of the Caucasus region.

The dockings came a day after Russian President Dmitry Medvedev recognized the Georgian territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states, which Georgia answered Wednesday by recalling all but two diplomats from its embassy in Moscow.




Read more: http://www.fremonttribune.com/articles/2008/08/27/ap/headlines/d92qqfj82.txt

[amyrose2712]

1. This is an important topic we should not let fade into the background n/t

[BrotherBuzz]

10. It's not going to fade away with the Neocons massaging the message all next week

GOP convention talking heads are orgasming thinking how they will spin this story to McCain's advantage.

[inanna]

2. Cold War tension rises as Putin talks of Black Sea confrontation

From the Times Online:

A new Cold War between Russia and the West grew steadily closer today after the Kremlin gave a warning about “direct confrontation” between American and Russian warships in the Black Sea.

Dmitri Peskov, a spokesman for Vladimir Putin, the Prime Minister, declared that Russia was taking “measures of precaution” against American and Nato naval ships. “Let’s hope we do not see any direct confrontation in that,” he said.

Any attempt by countries in the West to isolate Russia would “definitely harm the economic interests of those states”, he said.

Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4622422.ece

[Demeter]

3. Can We Arrest BushCo et al. for Real, Now?

They are crazy putting "aid" on a war boat and sending it into a war zone.

[Vincardog]

4. Does anyone realize that the Georgians started it? At BusHitlers prompting of course

[Submariner]

5. If you want your finger on the pulse of what the Russian attitude is

Check out the daily posts from the Russians and some Europeans and Americans at this link.

http://engforum.pravda.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=2

on edit: for humor alone, their comments about Saakashvili's tie sucking is funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrRN1_2pM08

[antisoros]

6. Good Stuff Submariner

There are strong indications that the Russians are sitting on material that will destroy the McCain candidacy, but they WANT that bozo to be the GOP candidate. And they want an Obama presidency to assist in establishing a stable peace in the Caucasus. They don't want another Cold War; McCain does.

If Bush believes that he is a great humanitarian, then he might ask for a second opinion from the 3.5 million Iraqis who are in exile because of his "liberating" mission. Another million or so are dead, and many of same are civilians who died at the hands of US forces. What the hell is his self-image?

I have no doubt that US advisors directed Saakashvili's murderous barrage against Tskhinvali civilians. Satellite data reveals conclusively that they were attacked. Then there is the matter of the movement of artillery and rocket launchers to the border with Ossetia, from whence the attack commenced. Georgian TV covered said barrage within minutes of its launch at 11:30 PM on Aug. 7. It was a set up. Captured Georgian troops confessed to participating in a pre-meditated mission, referred to as: "Operation Clean Fields." It involved a BlitzKleenz operation, conducted from the same base which housed over a thousand US troops only days before.

After the crowning of the GOP pig, Obama needs to demand release of Defense Intelligence satellite photos of the
Rokia Tunnel south side, to either confirm or deny Georgian claims of Russian tank presence in South Ossetia. Locals swear that the first Russian tanks entered Tskinvali 14.5 hours after the barrage.

Bush wanted the Russians stopped at the border with South Ossetia. Really? The war crimes were committed on Georgian soil. He wanted to protect the restricted technology that he allowed to get into Russian hands.

I can spot a liar a mile away. Listen to this liar. What bridge? Georgian foreign minister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkIeH3vbaQ&feature=user

Brutal occupation? 5000 Georgians protest at Russian check point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5FNcCOSPyA

From Georgian state website. Not a single city occupied by Russians. Checkpoints used to prevent re-militarization and capture war criminals and sensitive US and Israeli military technology. Food aid passes freely.


Yalu River Chase. Bomber Gap. Missile Gap. Domino Theory. Multiheaded Euromissile Gap. Panama Drug Lords. Soviet Winning Streak. Bay of Pigs. Turkish Nuke Removal (AKA: "Cuban Missile Crisis"). Tonkin Gulf. Grenada Rescue. Saddam's WMD. Waco Pre-emption. Hunting bin Laden. Taliban Heroin in Helmand (Afghanistan). Pentagon Encirclement. Euro-ABMs. Pentagon Zero Sum Game (South Ossetia). Ad nauseum.

[pampango]

7. Here's a different view of the recent history of the region and the events leading

up to the conflict.

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php

[antisoros]

12. Michael Totten is a Bush Mouthpiece

Totten - a former imbed in Iraq - finds exactly what his Bush State Dept masters want him to find. He is more than and imbed he is in-bed with the Bush war criminals.

In my post above, I note how Totten lies about Saakashit's rehabilitation of Georgia's former fascist leader. Gamsakhurdia is more than that. In the seventies, he ratted out his fellow Georgnats to the KGB. In fact,
Russian Intel released this videotape:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-FqH3wJCCQ

Hero or traitor? Georgians hated the Russification programs, ingrained in them by their native Georgian, Joe Stalin. But the love Americafication. Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m5hnDnRL0A&feature=related

[antisoros]

8. Medvedev Defends Recognition of Breakaway States

The 5% of Georgians who are extreme nationalists are ethnic cleansers. President Saakashvili is the worst of that bad lot. At least 15% of Georgians are pro-Russia; many more wants a regional peace in the Caucasus. The 30% who don't speak Georgians uniformly despise the supremacist ethnics.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9c7ad792-7395-11dd-8a66-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1

[antisoros]

9. German FM Admits US Advisors Had Nasty Role

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,572686,00.html

[hack89]

11. Not really

SPIEGEL: Do you believe that the American military advisors stationed in Tbilisi encouraged Georgia to launch its attack?

Schröder: I wouldn't go that far

[antisoros]

13. hack89

All Schroder is saying is that he doesn't accept the evidence that is out there.

Why would you post that when the criticism of the US role is clearly stated? Saakashit is an American Strong Man, like the Shah of Iran. Puppet states don't do anything without their master's approval.

McCain has shown that he is going to portray himself as the only candidate qualified to stand up the the Russian Big Bad Wolf that has been created from NATO propaganda. Only the OSCE can broker a lasting peace in the Caucasus. McCain doesn't want that. He wants payback for the Soviet role in his incarceration in Vietnam.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3395134/John-McCain-Essay-1974

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4689359/mccainiraqtimeline

[hack89]

16. So America encouraged Georgia

to goad a enemy that everyone knew was not only stronger but was itching for a provocation to intervene. And after Georgia launched their proxy war, we stood by impotently as our puppet was crushed and humiliated?

Our troops were there to train Georgian troops for Iraq so that Bush can maintain the fiction of the coalition of the willing. Saakashit misjudged not only Russia but America - he most likely thought that we would intervene in some meaningful way.

[reorg]

18. why would the Russians be "itching" to intervene?

They already were there. And, contrary to what the MSM are trying very hard to make us believe, the Russians did not occupy Georgia proper. The security measures in the buffer zone are being taken to prevent a repetition of the attack on South Ossetia. That is what the Russians said all along and there is nothing to prove otherwise.

Wouldn't it be possible that the Bushies thought the attack was worth a try? Maybe they thought there might be a slight possibility that the Russians would cave in, once again? And what did the US have to lose? The pipeline business does not seem to be affected at all by this confrontation.

[reorg]

17. actually, he does

state that he believes the US had a hand in it:

"... everyone knows that these US military advisors in Georgia exist ... it would have been strange if these experts had not had any information. Either they were extremely unprofessional or they were truly fooled, which is hard to imagine."

So, Schröder obviously believes they were informed. And they did not stop Saakashvili. Outside of direct military action, the US government supported him all the way. That's pretty nasty in my book.

[unkachuck]

14. cozy....

"A U.S. military ship loaded with aid docked at a southern Georgian port Wednesday, and Russia sent three missile boats to another Georgian port..."

....loaded with 'military' aid no doubt....I think there's strong possibly that Russia will escalate this into a 'hot' conflict with us....and bushco will oblige, just in time for the election....

....they have vital security interests, plenty of money and they've been engaging us for decades....they know what we've been doing in Middle East and around the world, they know our capabilities....I don't think Russia is stupid nor prone to bluffing....

....our support and position in the world has shrunk....they have little to lose and much to gain in re-asserting their interests....and our often implied nuclear threat to lesser adversaries is meaningless with the Russians....

....I wouldn't be surprised if we had some ships sunk and aircraft shot down soon....

[antisoros]

15. NATO isn't the answer

And why aren't these NATO boats staying in port? Georgia isn't a member. The people of the breakaway sections do not want to live under Georgian sovereignty. They want the same self-determination that NATO gave Kosovo. NATO had no authority in a country that didn't threaten a member.

Does NATO solve disputes? Turkey is occupying parts of Greece.

The solution would be to cut the belligerence and adopt the protocols affirmed by every member of the Organization of Security and Co-operation in Europe.

How did Bush get so powerful that Euros jump hoops for him? That is they same war criminal who promised in "Iraqi Freedom" "security" for the people of Iraq. Almost 4 million of them chose exile to his type of "freedom." And around a million other died, some at the hands of US soldiers. Most in the 1400 civil war that the war criminal heated up.

[Igel]

19. Which ships?

That's the problem. I need to ask.

Then again, there's probably a nice ad hominem attack that'll alleviate you--at least in your mind--of worrying about specifics, details, and thinking.

There are three groups of military ships in the Black Sea currently; I think one "group" is a singleton. Keep them distinct; they have different reasons for being there, and were scheduled to be there according to different timelines, and are under different commands.

1. NATO ships. They had a scheduled visit to Romania. The visit was scheduled in the spring to occur in August. They have priority, unless Russia gets a veto. Russia has no veto in this matter; it was fully informed at the time, and presumably didn't lose the memo. The "port" they're officially visiting is in a NATO country on the Black Sea; there is such a thing, you know. Russia was complaining about this visit long before Aug. 1, as it does over anything that is in its old imperial stomping grounds. Now it's merely shifted the basis of its complaint, and become more threatening. It takes two to tango, remember: A crash in the open sea is usually the fault of both parties.

2. Russian ships. They're to be in the Black Sea, since they're stationed at a Ukrainian port by treaty. Whether or not they complied with Yushchenko's ruling to notify them before additional movement is a question I haven't seen addressed. Russia say they don't need to; Ukraine says otherwise. Russia doesn't see that pressuring neighboring states makes them a bit antsy; it helped drive Turkey into NATO in the '40s and '50s; it helped drive Poland and the Baltics into NATO in the '90s and '00s. They continue to do the same thing, expecting different results. (That's a jocular definition for one word that might just apply in Putin's kazus.)

3. Then there's the US destroyer at Batumi. It was to dock at Poti, but went to Batumi ostensibly to avoid Russian patrols in and around the harbor. (Moreover, Poti's pretty trashed, with most of the boats that were there scuttled by the Russians). Probably also to avoid an incident should Russia want to board and search the US navy vessel. Possibly also to warn Russia away from re-occupying it's former rifle unit base in Batumi. Or to help dissidents in Adjaria. So hard to know which of the reasons apply, or even if this is a fairly complete list.