Industry man contests arrest outside Obama rally(Open Carry Handgun)

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A Beaver County man who routinely wears a pistol on his hip says he was illegally arrested by local law officers before a rally for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

"I am a threat to no one. Mr. Obama doesn't trump my constitutional rights. The president of the United States doesn't trump my constitutional rights," said John Noble, who was handcuffed, questioned for about two hours and then told by state police that he would receive two citations for disorderly conduct.

Mr. Noble, 50, of Industry, said he wore a holstered Glock 19 when he entered the park across the street from the Beaver County Courthouse more than an hour before Mr. Obama arrived for a campaign appearance Friday night.

"I had a Bible in one hand and an apple in the other. I was going to pass out my fliers (on the rights of law-abiding Americans to carry guns), but I never got the chance."



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08243/908351-100.stm

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I have a CCW and live in PA one county away from this numbnut. They've been staging stuff like this to drive their gun rights and right to open carry which we do have in this state. Personally these idiots are going to screw up everyone else's rights as they seek to push their agenda.

Idiot needs to figure that the times we live in the Secret Service and the local LEOs working at their orders are not going to let any firearms (or other weapons) any where near any candidate or the president/VP. And I have no problem with that. After all some nut even tried to assasinate Reagan.

Wonder if any of these open-carry numbnuts tried this stunt at the McCain rally today which is down in Washington county today which is one county away from me.

On a side note I'm watching CNN and McCain is getting a big crowd there. The wingnuts really like this NRA Palin pick even though she's totally unqualified for VP let alone CIC.

Shows how friggin' shallow they are.

[MercutioATC]

1. I think he's 100% right.

If the Secret Service (or any law enforcement) wants to suspend carry laws for a specific event, it's up to the to define the new boundaries.

[RamboLiberal]

2. And for how long have we been dealing with 1st Amendment zones?

A mile or more down the road where Bush or Cheney never even drove by in the motorcade?

I'm a smart gun-owner. I'm going to avoid taking my weapon in to an area that will be under a zone of protection by the Secret Service.

IMHO this guy wanted a confrontation. And I bet he had no plans to do this at the McCain rally today.

[MercutioATC]

7. Oh, I'l bet he wanted a confrontation too. And he had every right to.

Restricting certain things in a certain area for security reasons may be valid. Refusing to set these boundaries and harassing law-abiding citizens when they cross some invisible line isn't.

I wouldn't do it either but I think his action, and the response, illustrates an important point.

[movonne]

8. I just don't believe that we should go back to the old west where

everyone carries a gun and shoots whoever they think deserves it...

[TankLV]

11. Oh - I believe we SHOULD go back to the wild west

where responsible and law abiding communities BANNED ANY FIREARMS WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS!!!

too many gun nut assholes forget THAT "small" part of history...

[MercutioATC]

13. Good, because nobody's suggesting that.

Certain communities have CHOSEN not to adopt laws banning open carry (and this has nothing to do with shooting anybody).

If a governmental agency wants to restrict that right in a specific area, it's their responsibility to define the area. If they refuse to do so, they're infringing on somebody's rights.

[TankLV]

10. Good point...it's somehow DANGEROUS to SPEAK freely near a candidate

but goddamn it all - we'll all carry our guns where-ever we damn well please...

[MercutioATC]

16. It's the exact same issue.

If they refused to set a "1st Amendment Zone" but just randomly arrested people on the street who they felt were "too close", that would obviously be bad.

That's, in effect, what happened here. A man was exercising his rights and was within the boundaries of the law...and they arrested him.

[Faygo Kid]

24. Exact same issue: Yelling or waving signs and pulling out a gun, shooting a presidential candidate.

Exact same.

Of course, they could beat Barack to death with that sign. A gun is slightly more efficient.

Bullshit.

[MercutioATC]

25. Again, nobody is talking about shooting anybody.

The man was carrying a gun within the limits of the law, just as protesters are voicing their opinion within the limits of the law.

Had he shot anybody...or if protesters riot and become a danger...THEN a law has been broken

The issue is that the government should not have a random and arbitrary ability to restrict our rights when we are complying with existing laws.

[Faygo Kid]

29. Oh yeah, let's allow people with "Bibles and apples" to carry handguns to Obama events.

OK, you are a sentient being, right?

[MercutioATC]

32. The Secret Service has every legal right to set a perimeter.

They didn't, and this man was in full compliance with the law.

To deny him his rights is to weaken the rights of ALL protesters, armed or not.

[liberal1973]

67. WTF?

"had he shot somebody"?

How about not waiting for the dumbass to kill somebody.

[Paladin]

69. Standard Gun Nut "Thinking," liberal1973

They never propose anything proactive in the way of preventing gun violence, it's only AFTER somebody goes psychotic, and AFTER that person puts together an easily acquired arsenal, and AFTER that person kills some prominent politician or turns a shopping center into a slaughterhouse, and AFTER that person either kills himself or is killed by law enforcement. AFTER all that, the gun loons are finally in favor of getting tough with such a person. Such "thinking" would be entertaining if it weren't so Goddamned dangerous.....

[TankLV]

28. wrong logic - guns HURT people - speech doesn't

nice try - but ain't even apples and oranges - more like apples and orangatangs...

but you gun toting nuts will never see it...

[MercutioATC]

34. Guns don't hurt people.

A crowd with pickets...or rocks...can kill.

Again, this isn't about guns, it's about people who are in full compliance with the law being harassed (and, in this case, arrested).

[Faygo Kid]

40. A gun killed JFK, as I recall.

Also Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley.

I am waiting for you to cite the president who was assassinated by rocks.

Tick, tick. By the way, what the hell are you doing here on DU? The FReepers would seem a much more hospitable site for the likes of you, who wants to allow handguns at presidential candidate events.

[AlinPA]

43. That's out of order. I'll defend MercutioATC as a DU'er even as I disagree with him

on this one issue.

[Codeine]

46. Back off.

Accusing DU members of being Freepers simply because you disagree with them is strictly verboten.

[MercutioATC]

48. Actually, there are many solid Democrats who support reasonable gun rights.

...and I realize that our versions of "reasonable" probably differ.

I stand by my assertion. The danger is the intent, not the device. If a person is carrying a gun, in full compliance withthe law, they shouldn't be harassed any more than somebody should be harassed for exercising their right to free speech.

Don't like the law? Change it. Until then, it confers rights...and when somebody impinges on those rights, it affects ALL of our rights.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

52. Must have been some gun, I've never had one of mine act on their own.

[liberal1973]

66. You got it right

This asshole republican wanted to cause a confrontation. What a stupid ass.

[jwirr]

3. We have many community buildings such as the medical clinic that

have signs at the door banning guns on the premises. Would it have been legal to put signs around the event?

[RamboLiberal]

6. Sure - they could've put signs up

But the rallies I attended for Kerry or Edwards back in '04 I took it as a given that around that zone would be security. I would also take it as a given if outside the rally area that if I decided to open carry I would draw scrutiny and possibly detention. I think the Secret Service has a very difficult job. I want them to keep both candidates safe and even Bush and Cheney for in the latters cases I wouldn't want to make them a martyr.

BTW the last Edwards rally I attended the Sunday before the election I was actually appalled at the lack of metal detectors. If I was an assasin I could've easily taken a hidden gun in and since I was standing on the risers behind the candidate - well you get the picture.

[nebenaube]

47. yeah...

as far as I'm concerned both hands stay visible and I wonder exactly where the cross-hairs on me fall.

[Faygo Kid]

4. He's an idiot. Given the nation's history, this is ridiculous.

"I had a Bible in one hand and an apple in the other."

Crazed nutcase. No guns at any of these events.

Geez.

[Tutonic]

22. Bible in one hand, apple in the other, nuts hid in jaws.

[fascisthunter]

5. Wingut Activism.... "Let's Make American Society a Militant Gun Society"

yay... for our gun manufactirers.... duh

[TankLV]

9. Mr. Obama doesn't trump my constitutional rights.

umm - yes, at this time and this place - it DOES "trump" your perceived "constitutional rights"

sorry - there is a time and place for everything all you gun nut assholes - and carrying a loaded gun to a political rally is not one of them...

[Codeine]

14. No, actually, Obama doesn't.

This man was in a park where he has the legal right to have an openly-worn weapon. It's a stupid law, but that's the way of things. His rights are sacrosanct.

[TankLV]

17. Absolutely fucking BULLSHIT!

protecting Presidential candidates trumps any imagined "gun rights"...

[Codeine]

20. Gun Rights aren't "imagined." nt

[TankLV]

31. carrying guns at all cost to anytime and anyplace certainly is...

it's DANGEROUS and something all intelligent persons opppose.

[Codeine]

36. But he was in compliance with the law.

They had no right to arrest the guy.

Nice how we're all of a sudden police-state apologists when it's not our hobby-horse being attacked.

[geckosfeet]

45. He was percieved as a potential threat to presidential a candidate.

Someone running around with a holstered weapon, a bible, some pamphlets and an apple is bound to raise hackles even under ordinary circumstances. It's called menacing. When there are presidential candidates in the area red flags damn well should go up. I would expect that even for the bUsh gang.

Having said that, the state should take a long hard look at this guy and decide whether or not to pull his permits.

Damn. What if a "real" crazy whacked him over the head, took the firearm and started pulling the trigger?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. Then they need to change the law.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

54. So we should disarm the cops?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Codeine]

15. Even dumbshits have Constitutional rights. nt

[RamboLiberal]

18. Actually that's a state's right in this case to open carry

not a 2nd amendment.

Try open carry in D.C., Chicago, New York city, or many other American cities and see how fast you are busted. You're not allowed any kind of carry in those cities.

And in PA it is a right most don't exercise and most law enforcement don't know about. The people here who do this are getting hassled by LEOs and busted. You don't need Obama or McCain in town to have citizens calling 911 cause most citizens don't know that it's allowed either. 911 was called on a citizen in a supermarket down the road from where I work near Pittsburgh last week cause he OC'ed.

There is a growing movement for OC here in this state by a minority of gun owners. I think they are looking for court cases and what's better than a high-profile one.

As a gun-owner I'm actually wondering if they may create a backlash against gun rights by some of the citizenry. I saw a big disagreement at a gun club about whether members should OC at a gun bash. Some thought it their right. Some thought it kind of in the face to the attending public and would actually make some in the crowd uncomfortable.

[Thundar]

55. Open Carry is permitted in 44 of 50 states without a permit and in 48 of 50 states with a permit

It is a natural right with roots in common law confirmed by the second Amendment to the United States Constitution and in the constitutions of 46 of the 50 sovereign states in this Republic.

I think the open carry movement puts gun rights where they should be. Right into the civil rights arena where they belong.

After all rights unexercized are rights that are lost.

[TankLV]

19. sorry - not in THIS instance...

[depakid]

21. Americans' obsessions with their guns really is impressive

as is the lack of common sense expressed by some on this thread.

[MercutioATC]

26. This isn't a gun issue, it's a civil rights issue.

The government should not have the ability to randomly and arbitrarily restrict our rights when we're complying with existing laws.

Had they set a perimeter within which weapons were not allowed? Fine. They chose not to, and yet they arrested a man across the street who was in compliance with the law.

[depakid]

27. That's ridiculous

The guy's wearing a holstered glock outside a presidential rally- and acting whack about it.

[MercutioATC]

30. ...and he was in full compliance with the law.

He was across the street handing out literature...doing nothing provocative.

You may not agree with open carry laws, but they ARE the law in some places. If he wasn't breaking the law, he should have been left alone...just as protesters without guns should be left alone if they're not breaking the law.

[depakid]

38. He was being stupid and whack

and unlike the usual peaceful protester, presented a potential danger. I'd hope that would be clear for most folks.

He deserved to spend the night in jail. Hopefully, they'll give him a mental evaluation.

[MercutioATC]

49. As long as you make the same claims about a protester who "sounds funny",

you're being consistent.

I may disagree, but I can respect a consistent logical argument.


I'll still adamantly state that neither a person asserting their First Amendment right nor a person asserting their Second Amendment rights should be persecuted as long as they exercise them within the limits of the law.

[liberal_rxstudent]

41. I totally agree with you on this issue...

(even though I do not consider myself in any way a "gun nut")...however, I don't think you'll persuade some of the others that this man did nothing that should have warranted his arrest.

[hedgehog]

63. Umm, just what is the range of a Glock? Unless streets in Pennsylvania

are insanely wide, I 'm guessing that the speaker's stand was well within range.

[TankLV]

33. BULLSHIT! It's GUN issue, not a phoney "civil rights" issue...

Our government not only has a duty to do such a thing - we DEMAND they restrict the proximity of guns to political candidates!

PERIOD.

only idiots would thing it's a good idea to be allowed to carry a gun near a political rally...

next you'll be defending the rights of an accused criminal to carry a gun into a courtroom...

[MercutioATC]

35. I responded to your identical claim above.

[TankLV]

37. And my responses to that other poster apply to YOU...

[onethatcares]

23. How far do you think he would have gotten if * was speaking

in that park, or maybe 1.5 miles away from that park? I'd would have loved to see his reponse to arrest at that point.

[bagrman]

39. An armed society and a polite society.

[McCamy Taylor]

42. Bullshit. Gun deaths are a medical epidemic in this country.His glock was an invitation to disaster

The presence of an armed protester that close to a presidential candidate would be perceived by everyone as a threat, which would only precipitate more counter violence.

That guy was there to set it off. The police did the right thing.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. Criminals with guns and suicides have caused the medical "epidemic" not law abiding citizens.

[bagrman]

59. The only problem was they could see his gun, how many concelled weapons do you think were there.

Do you think the cops would beat the hell out of anyone they wanted to if they knew everyone standing around them had a gun.

[Paladin]

44. This Guy Was Just Looking For A Confrontation

Like most idiots who insist in openly carrying handguns, he was hoping for some sort of showdown. And his turning up in the vicinity of a Democratic presidential candidate just makes his twisted mindset that much more evident. I hope he's now on every nutcase list that the government maintains.

Sorry, all you 2nd Amendment Absolutists---your sacred right to pack heat does not allow for putting political candidates in potential jeopardy. If you've got a problem with that, take it up with your pal Fat Tony Scalia....

[Thundar]

51. Why attack "the wrong kind" of political activism?

I disagree with your bigoted statement sir, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
I have openly carried a firearm for over 20 years, does that mean you think I am an idiot? I can assure you I have no desire for a "showdown".

[Paladin]

60. Are You In Law Enforcement?

If not, why don't you enlighten the rest of us by giving a detailed explanation of why you feel compelled to openly carry a firearm. (Extra points for honesty.)

After that, you can tell us all why you think that supporting an openly-armed nutcase in the vicinity of a presidential candidate is a really swell idea. Lotsa luck: most of us have a lot better remembrance of the last 45 years of Democratic Party history than you evidently do.....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

58. The secret service should have been aware of the law and set up a perimeter.

[bean fidhleir]

50. It's sickening, the number of people around here who call themselves liberal

but support fascist ideology (only the powerful have rights, the powerless exist to serve the state, the powerful must be protected at all costs, etc).

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

57. Absolutely agree.

[Thundar]

61. A political activist is blatantly abused by government agents...

and many on this site are happy?

Because you don't like guns it is O.K. for government agents to abuse this political activist?

The man was not in a restricted zone. Read the entire article, the S.S. Agent said so. The man was passing out political literature in a park and breaking no laws.

What a sad day for our civil rights, and a sad day for progressives that refuse to stand up for the civil rights of those with a different political view.

This makes me ill.

[liberal1973]

68. Go to hell

The asshole republican wanted a confrontation.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

70. Rational response, not.

[Bandit]

62. The president of the United States doesn't trump my constitutional rights,"

He doesn't know very much about the man I am sure he voted for. I wonder if he has ever heard of Padilla?

[hedgehog]

64. About the need for the Secret Service to set up a "no gun" perimeter....

Is there anyone in this country who thinks that the Secret Service approves of people carrying weapons within firing range of those under protection?

[slackmaster]

65. I'm sure they would like to disarm everyone

But they don't have the authority to do that.