JPMorgan Chase May Acquire Washington Mutual After FDIC Seizure

[steve2470]

Source: Bloomberg

Sept. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Washington Mutual Inc. may be seized by regulators later today and parts sold to JPMorgan Chase & Co. in what will rank among the biggest banking failures in U.S. history.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. plans to take control of Seattle-based WaMu, the biggest U.S. savings and loan, according to the CNBC television network, and New York-based JPMorgan will buy deposits and branches, the Wall Street Journal said, without citing any sources. The FDIC insurance fund is not expected to contribute any money, the Journal said.

WaMu's fate played out as Congress tried to reach an accord that will ease the global credit crunch, which has already driven Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and IndyMac Bancorp out of business, and Bear Stearns Cos. and Merrill Lynch & Co. into hastily arranged rescues. As many as five banks had considered bids for WaMu without making an offer, balking in part because the lender faced as much as $19 billion in mortgage loan losses.

Resolving WaMu's situation ``is a positive,'' said Patrick Becker Jr., who oversees $2 billion as chief investment officer at Becker Capital Management in Portland, Oregon. ``That's been a big cloud over the market and financial shares.'' His firm does not own JPMorgan or WaMu shares.

more at link above

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBEEMxmXu4CY&refer=home

---

The FDIC mention is a new twist, aside from JP Morgan.

[whistle]

1. Whay allow Morgan to have it, sell to highest bidder

[MsRedacted]

41. Umm . . .what makes you think they weren't the highest bidder, or the only one who would take them

They are "buying deposits". My guess is that they are paying face value for them (it's really just a transaction negotiated to keep the FDIC out of it).

And they will buy some branches -- which means to me that there are some branches that are still profitable -- or at least not completely bankrupt. And those were negotiated as part of the deal to get the deposits.

I mean it's not like other banks are lining up to take on WaMu's accounts. These situations are carefully negotiated by the feds -- to try to keep the house of cards from falling.

My question is: what happens to WaMu's debt? Are they gonna file for bankruptcy, or hope the congress reaches a deal? I didn't see that in the article when I read it earlier this evening.

[L. Coyote]

71. They were the highest bidder.

[BlooInBloo]

2. NO. Not "among the biggest" - BIGGER THAN THE PREVIOUS TOP 10 COMBINED!

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/09/wamu-cliff-diving_25.html

"WaMu's stock price now off 31%.

Fitch and S&P both cut their ratings earlier this week. And any hope for a deal is apparently fading ...

Bank Failure Friday might be interesting tomorrow. With $310 billion in assets (hat tip Nemo), WaMu would be the biggest bank failure in history - in fact it would be larger than the previous top ten added together (although maybe not in inflation adjusted terms).

UPDATE: Analyst Richard Bove put an estimage on a WaMu failure, from Bloomberg: FDIC May Need $150 Billion Bailout as Local Bank Failures Mount (hat tip Michael Brian)

A federal takeover of Washington Mutual, which has assets of $310 billion, could cost taxpayers $24 billion ... according to Richard Bove, an analyst at Miami-based Ladenburg Thalmann & Co. "

[depakid]

6. Kinda answers the question about those 5% term deposits

[Blue Diadem]

3. I heard on CNBC that FDIC was moving into WAMU tonight.

They seemed to think it was a rather strange move.

[steve2470]

4. Seattle Times tidbit about FDIC...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2008203093_webwamu25.html

CNBC reported late this afternoon that federal regulators will take over the embattled Seattle-based thrift, and have brokered a deal for JPMorgan Chase to acquire the bulk of its deposits and retail branches. The Wall Street Journal also is reporting the JPMorgan deal, citing people familiar with the matter.

JPMorgan said it has scheduled a conference call for 6:15 p.m. Pacific time this evening. The subject was not announced. A webcast of the call will be available online at www.jpmorganchase.com under Investor Relations/Investor Presentations.

CNBC, also without citing sources by name, says the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. acted without telling WaMu.

[BlooInBloo]

5. Calculated Risk has such details as are available....

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/

[steve2470]

7. details from the FDIC if you are interested....

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/wamu.html

[question everything]

72. Thank you. I just wrote a check on this bank account

and, according to this link, it should be OK.

[Zenlitened]

8. Washington Mutual to Sell Deposits to JPMorgan

Source: New York Times

The federal government has arranged for Washington Mutual to sell its deposits and some branches to JPMorgan Chase, people briefed on the matter said Thursday night.

(snip)

The firm recently hired Goldman Sachs to solicit potential buyers, and the list has included the likes of Citigroup, Wells Fargo, HSBC and Banco Santander.

While Washington Mutual argued that it has adequate capital, it has suffered debilitating downgrades of its credit rating over the past two weeks, endangering its financial health.

The talks have continued amid heightened concern about all financial companies and an intense political battle over creation of a giant bailout fund on Capitol Hill. Washington Mutual plunged into the subprime mortgage and credit card business over the last few years, and has been ravaged by the worsening housing crisis. Analysts suggest that it could rack up losses totaling $30 billion or more.


Read more: http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/washington-mutual-to-sell-deposits-file-for-receivership/index.html?hp

---

(Updated with details from new source, NYT)

[Pale Blue Dot]

9. Holy shit.

There you go.

BOOM.

[Changenow]

13. What is going to happen now?

McCain doesn't want a solution.

[Pale Blue Dot]

19. The news story is unclear on if the FDIC will be paying out.

If they do, it will use up almost all of their reserves.

[Phred42]

22. The FDIC only has 1/3 of the $$ needed to cover all deposits

if there is a run- it's over

First come- first serve....step right up

[AlCzervik]

10. WAMU is big here and lots of people are going to be losing their jobs.

this just sucks.

[jannyk]

32. Yep, I'm in the Bay Area and it's gonna get rough. n/t

[Connie_Corleone]

11. WHAT!

[gateley]

12. Whoops -- I saw on the news that some acquisition deals had fallen through.

Another one bites the dust -- and they're predicting a few more over the next several days.

[Pale Blue Dot]

14. Never mind. Got it.

[CountAllVotes]

16. JPMorgan to buy Wamu deposits: report

NEW YORK (Reuters) - JPMorgan Chase & Co (NYSE:JPM - News) has agreed to acquire the deposits of struggling savings and loan Washington Mutual Inc (NYSE:WM - News) in a government-brokered deal, the Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday.

Earlier, JPMorgan, the third-largest U.S. bank, said it would hold an investor conference call at 9:15 p.m. EDT on Thursday, but it did not say why.

JPMorgan officials were not available for comment.

Sources have said that JPMorgan was one of the banks circling Wamu, the largest U.S. thrift, which has been talking to buyers about selling itself.

Link:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080925/business_us_jpmorgan_callbiz.html?.v=1

[aquart]

15. "SEIZED"?

Holy shit. That seems...strict.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Turbineguy]

17. WAMU was run into the ground

by management. They were going to be in trouble anyway.

[CountAllVotes]

20. bunch of crooks IMO

I had some dealings with this place. They were a pack of greedy fuckers, I'll say that much.

:kick:

[Hawkeye-X]

31. *whistle* look down - got a WAMU horror story for ya.

:hi:

[aquart]

18. So the FDIC forced the sale?

[MsRedacted]

42. They can't force. They negotiate.

They didn't want to have to insure all those deposits -- so they simply got another bank to take them over. Makes good sense to me. Now what are they going to do about the debt?

[Gin]

83. JP Morgan is getting too big to fail

[Oregone]

21. "The firm recently hired Goldman Sachs to solicit potential buyers"

LOL

[happyslug]

23. Sell DEPOSITS??? this makes no sense.

Deposits are cash on hand, cash invested into WAMU. You do NOT sell Deposit, you ask people to DEPOSIT they money into your bank (WAMU is a S&L but the same rule apply). on the other hand you sell loans. No loans are mentioned in the Article. What is going on? What is Washington Mutual actually selling? Control? Cutting out its previous investors? Only time will tell.

[depakid]

27. Their retail branches and deposits have assessable value

How much less that is than what it would have been, had they not made such an aggressive foray into predatory lending is anyone's guess- but it would be a lot more than I imagine that they're getting.

[MsRedacted]

43. It makes sense. JP will take over the deposits accts, and give Wa Mu the value of those deposits

or some portion thereof.

It keeps the FDIC from having to insure the deposits.

[happyslug]

73. WAMU already has the value of those deposits, they are DEPOSITS.

WAMU only concern is if the person who had deposited those deposits decided to withdraw them. Up till that point the Deposits are assets not liabilities. The Deposits are NOT like an non-performing loan, no cash coming in, but cash haven gone out and this a liability (And worse one costing money given that who ever WAMU sold the debt to had some sort of guarantee from WaMu that it was a good debt).

My fear, is someone wanted to pull these deposits out of WaMu and JP decided to step in and take over those deposits, so the depositor did NOT pull out their money, and JP then loaned WaMu the equivalent amount of money. In affect someone pulled this money out of WaMu and deposited with JP Morgan, and then JP Morgan loaned an equivalent amount to WaMu for WaMu did not have the money to pay that depositor and its other creditors.

You do NOT sell deposits, they are withdrawn or otherwise returned to an investor but not sold. Something else is going on here, I suspect someone wanted to withdraw their money from WaMu and JP Morgan stepped in and convinced that person to deposit it in JP Morgan and JP Morgan then loaned the money right back to WaMu. Someone wanted this money "Safe" but JP Morgan knew if it was withdrawn WaMu would go under. Thus this deal, which on its face sounds like a sale of Assets, but I believe was someone trying to save WaMu from a huge lost of assets.

Remember your accounting rule:

Assets = Capital plus Liabilities.

Loans are an "Assets", Deposits are technically a Liability, but of a type most banks are encouraged to have. Debts to other banks are also liabilities, but of a type NOT encouraged unless necessary. Some WaMu large Depositor wanted to pull out his assets, WaMu did not have the Cash assets to pay him. The only way to pay him would be to sell WaMu Loans at huge lost, and that lost would have forced JP Morgan to write down a huge amount of their loans (i.e. the lower or cost or market accounting rule). I suspect nether WaMu or JP Morgan wanted WaMu to write off a bunch of loans. The loans are loans no one wants, thus can NOT be sold (i.e. Assets can NOT go up in Value) and if any are sold for a huge reduction is price a huge number of other banks will have to lower their assets to reflect this new Market Price. Thus JP Morgan did NOT buy the Deposits, JP Morgan convinced the Depositor to deposits his money with JP Morgan, and then JP Morgan loaned those same funds to WaMu to pay off the Depositor (Try to do that with your local bank, and see how fast you get hit with fees).

Someone wanted out of this financial disaster and JP Morgan guided him in such a way to avoid anyone having to re-access the market value of their outstanding loans. How often is this going to happen till something breaks down. That is the point I am making, this was to avoid a huge write down, that will have to occur sooner or later. Think about it, one depositor (or a group o depositor, the story is written to avoid that issue) wanted out, and the rest said no. How long before someone else decides they want out, and no one can talk him or her out of it?

[MsRedacted]

77. Yes, but JP didn't "buy" the deposit account from WaMu, they bought them from the feds.

Who took over the bank so that JP could assume the deposit accounts without having to take on WaMu's debt.

[Pale Blue Dot]

24. "The deal isn't expected to result in any hit to the bank-insurance fund."

I really don't understand this deal, but that statement, at least, is good news.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26893612/

[LeftyMom]

25. Does this mean WaMu accounts will be converted to Chase accounts?

I really need to know- I do my Dad's books and all of his accounts and his mortgage are with WaMu. I know the mortgage is okay, but if his account is moving to someplace else, I really would rather it not be Chase. I'd move him to my credit union, but they don't do business accounts and he wants it all at one place for convenience sake.

[bemildred]

28. That's what it sounds like.

Separating the valuable depositary business from the bankrupt mortgage selling business.

I've been thinking it's about time to move to a credit union anyway. This threat of BofA to charge people you write a check to $5 to cash it is going to be a pain in the rectum too.

[LeftyMom]

30. Customer service at BofA absolutely blows.

WaMu was pretty variable from one location to another, but some tellers and branches are pretty good. BofA? Just terrible, every branch I ever went to.

[bemildred]

34. The WaMu branch I used to use blew pretty bad too.

Not that I disagree about BofA, but I have been unwilling to use them for years.

I like IndyMac, their service is great. I never lifted a finger when the Feds took them over.

But now, I think it's time to consider moving to a credit union.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Genevieve]

38. Yes, I have just gotten off the phone with WAMU:

All WAMU banks will be converted to Chase in approx 6 months. All accounts remain the same right now (interest rates, charges, etc) but will be subject to Chase's regulations after the 6-month transition period. There will be no FDIC payouts, as it will not be
necessary (because of the buy-out from Chase).

[Demobrat]

39. Yes that's exactly what it means.

Your dad is a Chase customer now.

[Xithras]

26. So much for my WM stock.

Fuck. It's trading at 45 cents in after hours. I paid about 28 times that for most of my stock.

Fuck.
Fuck.
Fuck.
Fuck.

:argh:

I think I'm gonna go home and crack open a bottle of rum. This just cost me about $30,000.

[Mojorabbit]

36. .

:hug:

[Demeter]

44. Condolences

I experienced a much smaller loss in the savings and loan crisis--Keating 5, et al.

I swore off stock after watching Enron go down the tubes...

[Hawkeye-X]

29. Thank God I transferred out of WAMU - both bank and CC

WAMU made an eternal mistake with me over the summer, and I am now grateful. Their 3rd party "ChexPay" subscription had me red-flagged for bad checks - except for one problem - I don't use checks at all. WAMU froze my account, and I demanded it closed and I re-opened Bellco CU, and I do NOT regret a minute of doing that - I even did it by doing a 6-month CD at a 3% interest. Bellco are on top of things, and we are reassured online.

As for WAMU CC's - we have two of them, and they were one of the highest rate (near usury) so I transferred them out to a 4.99% interest (AE-Blue) for the life of the balance. We are interested in paying down the principal to cut our debts.

www.bellco.org (for Colorado residents)

Hawkeye-X

[Dukkha]

35. my Chase 401k will get a boost

after it's been going up & down very erratically the past 2 weeks. I was a WaMu customer when I lived in SF I hate to see them go.

[Xithras]

33. Listening to the shareholder meeting now. Banks won't close.

WM banks will simply be rebranded as JPMorgan Chase. No branches will close, and FDIC payouts won't be needed.

The only people screwed here are WM shareholders and debt holders. The FDIC seized the bank, and JPM bought them from the federal government. The FDIC seizure cleared the debtors and allowed JPM to take it over without external liabilities.

This was ENGINEERED to screw the shareholders out of any equity. In a normal purchase, JPM would have needed to convert WM stock to JPM stock, and it would have cost them a hell of a lot more money. This got them out of that. I hope to hell this is investigated and that we get some class actions going.

Now, I gotta get back to my rum. Then I gotta tell my wife. It's going to be a long night.

[mbperrin]

37. This is how it's supposed to work.

No cost to the taxpayer, bad banks close. Depositors are protected, investors made bad bet, lose.

We do not need the welfare limousine king bailout to nowhere.

[Demobrat]

40. Yup. Stockholders are screwed but depositors are fine.

The stockholders took a risk. The depositors didn't. So things still make sense. The only real suckage is the loss of jobs, especially in Seattle. That part is heartbreaking.

[MsRedacted]

45. Yup. I wondered why they didn't do this with IndyMac

Did they not bother to separate out the deposits as an offer? I wondered that. Seems to me that as long as there are solvent banks -- the FDIC shouldn't have to pay out very often.

[swag]

46. Duplicious biggest bank dupe in failure history

Source: New York Times

Washington Mutual, the giant lender that came to symbolize the excesses of the mortgage boom, was seized by federal regulators on Thursday night, in what is by far the largest bank failure in American history.

Regulators simultaneously brokered an emergency sale of virtually all of Washington Mutual — the nation’s largest savings and loan, with $307 billion in assets — to JPMorgan Chase.

The move came as lawmakers reached a stalemate over the passage of a $700 billion bailout fund meant to help ailing banks, and removes one of America’s most troubled banks from the financial landscape while mitigating another potentially huge taxpayer bill for the rescue of another failing institution.

Shareholders and some bondholders will be wiped out. WaMu deposits are guaranteed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation up to the $100,000 per account limit. Customers of Seattle-based WaMu are unlikely to be affected.


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/business/26wamu.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

---

Biggest bank failure in US history

[barbtries]

47. and it ain't over yet.

sigh.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pinto]

48. Wow. n/t

[pinto]

49. Please re-edit back to the actual headline per LBN rules.

Thanks.

[swag]

68. Sorry. This is a dupe thread.

Should be combined with earlier story.

Thanks.

[KewlKat]

50. I'm confused

aren't depositers shareholders? If shareholders are wiped out, then how do depositers get their money?

[Demeter]

53. Shareholders Owned Stock in a Publicly Traded Corporation

They now own pretty pieces of worthless paper.

[Amonester]

63. Yup. The CEO's cut 'n ran with all their pennies (and more) n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

74. Everything's electronic

So shareholders don't even get to own pretty pieces of worthless paper. It's all in cyberspace now.

Unless you were talking about annual reports? :+

[MsRedacted]

66. No. A depositor has $ in an account. A shareholder own stock.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bozita]

51. I thought Fridays were for bank takeovers. What's with Thursday?

Is there another one coming tomorrow?

[UpInArms]

59. Media leaks pushed US FDIC to find WaMu buyer--Bair

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN2519495020080926

WASHINGTON, Sept 25 (Reuters) - A top U.S. bank regulator said on Thursday her agency acted swiftly to find a buyer for struggling mortgage lender Washington Mutual Inc (WM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) to quell customer anxiety fueled by media leaks.

All the deposits and assets of the Seattle-based lender were acquired by JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) in a transaction that stamped WaMu as the biggest failure in U.S. bank history, Federal Deposit Insurance Corp Chairman Sheila Bair said.

Bair said, during a telephone call with reporters, she worried about the potential impact a WaMu failure would have on the FDIC's reserves to insure deposits. She reiterated that there will be more bank failures but the number will be low compared with the savings and loans crisis more than a decade ago.

so how many S&Ls failed in the 80s?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_Loan_crisis

The savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s (commonly referred to as the S&L crisis) was the failure of 747 savings and loan associations (S&Ls) in the United States. The ultimate cost of the crisis is estimated to have totaled around USD$160.1 billion, about $124.6 billion of which was directly paid for by the U.S. government—that is, the U.S. taxpayer, either directly or through charges on their savings and loan accounts<1>—which contributed to the large budget deficits of the early 1990s.

The concomitant slowdown in the finance industry and the real estate market may have been a contributing cause of the 1990–1991 economic recession. Between 1986 and 1991, the number of new homes constructed per year dropped from 1.8 million to 1 million, the lowest rate since World War II.

...more...

[Demeter]

52. They Didn't Even Wait Until Friday Night?!!

Either panic, or psychological warfare on Congress.

I'd guess....psychological warfare. Even though WaMu has been flying distress flags for months, they could have waited for Friday night.

[tridim]

54. So, my new mortgage holder is JPMorgan Chase.

What am I in for? I've never dealt with them.

[femrap]

55. I'm glad we don't have to bail

WaMu out...let them fail...bunch of dumb ass, greedy, white boys. Let 'em go live in one bedroom apts and work for a living for a change.

[MarieP]

56. Bank Failure

No question...this was planned to try to force the Dems to ok
Bush's plan with no oversites..

[jpgray]

57. What happens to the FDIC after this? Will JP Morgan cover the deposits?

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't the insurance fund rather strapped at the moment?

[KewlKat]

60. The original article I read

said the FDIC would not have to get involved in this one.

[KewlKat]

64. FDIC might have to borrow money from the Treasury

Aug 27, 2008

(Reuters) - Federal Deposit Insurance Corp (FDIC) might have to borrow money from the Treasury Department to see it through an expected wave of bank failures, the Wall Street Journal reported.

The borrowing could be needed to cover short-term cash-flow pressures caused by reimbursing depositors immediately after the failure of a bank, the paper said.

The borrowed money would be repaid once the assets of that failed bank are sold.

"I would not rule out the possibility that at some point we may need to tap into (short-term) lines of credit with the Treasury for working capital, not to cover our losses," Chairman Sheila Bair said in an interview with the paper.

Bair said such a scenario was unlikely in the "near term." With a rise in the number of troubled banks, the FDIC's Deposit Insurance Fund used to repay insured deposits at failed banks has been drained.

In a bid to replenish the $45.2 billion fund, Bair had said on Tuesday that the FDIC will consider a plan in October to raise the premium rates banks pay into the fund, a move that will further squeeze the industry.


http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSBNG28670420080827

[ladywnch]

61. yeah there was a recent post that the FCIC needs 150 million to cover current needs. n/t

[MsRedacted]

67. JP "bought" (re: took over) the deposit accts and many branches.

So the FDIC will not have to put out a cent.

The FDIC took over WaMu so that JP could buy the accts without buying the debt. JP bought the accounts from the fed.

[bluesmail]

58. so many financial coups, it's hard to keep up.

[galileoreloaded]

62. Sweet deal for Morgan....but the bondholders...well,

they're gonna be pissed. These are the guys we need, not the shareholders. The bod guys just got stuck. The bond holders will react. Guaranteed. Pensions, IRA's, and other institutions are bondholders. Joe six Pack is OK, but what about his retirement.

Big deal here folks, ramifications unknown.

[L. Coyote]

65. So "the biggest bank failure in history" happened today. Bush is going out

with a financial explosion of unprecedented proportions.

Is this the result of tax cuts for the rich?

[MilesColtrane]

69. It's the result of eliminating some regulatory laws, ignoring others, allowing...

...banks to gobble up their competition creating trusts, and allowing the uber rich to invest in God-knows-what. (hedge funds).

The government's solution to prevent a major depression is to print money that it doesn't have, wad it up, and stick it into the holes in the dyke.

Instead of a crash, we will get an ugly sustained slump because of double digit inflation. It's going to be like 1975-1981, only much worse, and will probably lead to a single term for whoever ends up in the White House.

[Mark D.]

70. The NWO Duo. Part of the Trio.

The two most powerful entities in America's elite, Rockefeller (Energy) and Morgan (Banking) are taking this manufactured 'crisis' for all they can for their plan. Rockefeller has a strong presence in Chase, a company he once was the largest stockholder for (and could still be), as well as being a top dog there. Former Fed chairman Paul Volcker once worked for them. And under David Rockefeller, the largest shareholder and head honcho, the headquarters was built in NYC across from the Federal Reserve bank of New York. Chase is also the leading bank of the United Nations. You can say that's all just coincidence, or you can step out of the Matrix for a dose of the reality at work now.

The first British elite Morgan to land in the US founded AETNA, the model from which the for-profit 'health insurance' nightmare began and a leading voice in the fight against not-for-profit single-payer health care. His son became the first Morgan banker, the son of that son was JP Morgan. The most powerful banking family in America that helped create the early 1900 stock-market scare, to 'shock doctrine' a 'need' for a Federal Reserve to 'protect us from that happening again'. With that new powerful tool, Morgan was able to then later steer the nation into the Great Depression. Energy speculation created a lot of rise in gas prices recently, Morgan is the biggest energy speculator.

You know Rockefeller's got a big hand in that energy shit. Thanks to the GOP deregulation, hedge funds became all the rage and are the primary catalyst in the sub-prime nightmare which is the other major factor in this economic downturn. The biggest hedge fund? Morgan. THIS IS NOT A BANK FAILURE. It's the biggest pocketing of an S&L in history by an already overstuffed JP Morgan Chase PIG! Those two, with Rothschild in England, are the money behind the drive for a NWO. Period. Together those three own or control over a hundred trillion dollars in capital or energy in the world, and have profited hugely from every war in the last century they partially helped make happen.

They didn't work for the Nazis, the Nazis worked for them. The Hanseatic League never really stopped working, and the Holy Roman Empire never stopped trying to take over the world. They're just learning new ways to do it. They make us 'fear' sensible socialism to embrace their unregulated disaster-capitalism. They use fear and moral issues to manipulate, 'imPalin' us, to distract from the truth. America was their great experiment, and now it's just the military branch, being no longer a producer of goods, a leader in science, or education or medicine. Those who really try to change that system are gunned down (JFK, Garfield, Lincoln, and almost Andrew Jackson - they'd missed him).

That's why Obama is careful not to call for too much of the real changes needed, I think. And those who speak of them (Kucinich, Paul, etc.) could never win. He's careful to involve the Council on Foreign Relations (powerful, but not nearly as the trio above) and to acknowledge Bilderberg, he knows he has to step carefully to play the game. Perhaps his push for better education will lead to a better educated public that can one day take down this rising Pagan/Mammonist empire before the USA is no more. This isn't conspiracy, this is historical fact, that I state above about the 'real owners' (as George Carlin put it). Just check out 'The Money Masters' for more info on this.

[Imagevision]

75. Question, if you had $47800,00 is it time to take it out of the bank...

[OakCliffDem]

76. More and More power in the hands of fewer and fewer

[fascisthunter]

82. more consolidation... too big to fail

the insanity