STOCK MARKET WATCH, Wednesday October 1

[ozymandius]

Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Wednesday October 1, 2008

COUNTING THE DAYS
DAYS REMAINING IN THE * REGIME 111
DAYS SINCE DEMOCRACY DIED (12/12/00) 2808 DAYS
WHERE'S OSAMA BIN-LADEN? 2533 DAYS
DAYS SINCE ENRON COLLAPSE = 2824
Number of Enron Execs in handcuffs = 19
ENRON EXECS CONVICTED = 10
Enron execs conveniently deceased = 3
Other Arrests of Execs = 54

---

U.S. FUTURES &
MARKETS INDICATORS>
NASDAQ FUTURES-----------------------------S&P FUTURES

---

AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow - 10,578.24
Nasdaq - 2,757.91
S&P 500 - 1,342.90
Oil - $27.69/bbl
Gold - $266.70/oz.
$1 USD = EUR 1.06678
$1 USD = JPY 116.6200

In recognition of those prescient of the Dow's precipitous return of Bush values (9/29/08): JuneBourder and AnneD

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON September 30, 2008

Dow... 10,850.66 +485.21 (+4.68%)
Nasdaq... 2,082.33 +98.60 (+4.97%)
S&P 500... 1,164.74 +58.35 (+5.27%)
Gold future... 880.80 -13.60 (-1.54%)
30-Year Bond 4.31% +0.14 (+3.46%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.83% +0.20 (+5.37%)






GOLD,EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver

---

PIEHOLE ALERT

Heads Up!
Preliminary info on appearances by Bush & Co. throughout the country. Details & links are added as they become available so check back. And if you know more, are organizing something, or would like to, contact [e-mail]

For information on protests and other actions Citizens For Legitimate Government

---

Read more: du

[Demeter]

1. Chilling Cartoon!

Good morning Ozy! Ready for Rollercoaster III? I didn't think so.

[ozymandius]

3. Good morning.

:donut: :donut: :donut:

No I'm not ready. It's so nerve racking.

[DemReadingDU]

40. that is a chilling toon

but I think something like that must have taken place

[ozymandius]

42. I think of it as a policeman's sketch.

Sure the House Republican's killed a bull. But if they had not followed through with the ant-Bush protest then something else would have been gunned down. The dollar for starters...

[ozymandius]

2. Market WrapUp

Financial Upheaval & the Ring of Fire
BY FRANK BARBERA, CMT

For the last two weeks most Americans have been mesmerized by the financial train wreck unfolding before our very eyes. We have witnessed major banks like Wachovia, Washington Mutual and other (FNM, FRE, AIG, Lehman, Merrill Lynch) financial institutions collapsing on a nearly day-to-day basis. We have watched in hope that somehow Washington could ride to the rescue and help slow down the pace of this collapse, possibly limiting its impact on those of us who are forced to work hard and who have no golden parachute “downside protection” should we fail in our daily work. In retrospect, it is abundantly clear that the initial Paulson bill was a disaster -- that it did not have much chance at success even if rapidly passed.

Importantly, there has been for most of us, a set of dual concerns at work during this time. On the one hand, there is the ideological concern to see something unfold that is “right for the country” and aids the broad markets. On the other hand, there is a second set of concerns, which is often more personal, the “what do I do with my money, and how is this going to affect me” aspect of the current crisis. On that second level, most of us do not want to see markets move lower as happened yesterday, as valuable capital is being destroyed. Just yesterday, a staggering 1.2 Trillion dollars was lost -– granted, on paper -- but still the number speaks to the potentially enormous impact these types of swings can have, and the kind of dramatic upheaval which has been unleashed.

.....

In my view, this crisis is, at present, most likely in the second or third inning and no further than that. Maybe only the second inning. Is this the beginning of a Great Depression? In my view, the answer is quite possibly, yes. The economic contraction now underway represents a global collapse on a scale only seen in the 1930’s. For most, the economic landscape a year from now, will bear few similarities to the care free days we now enjoy. This is a matter of economics and to a very large degree, an extended collapse has already been baked into the cake via the years of gross excess that embodied the recent historic boom. The present monetary system could now be in the process of dying, and its death process could be long and drawn out, eventually yielding to an entirely new monetary regime.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

[Demeter]

4. Crossposting: Email From My Corporate Banking Brother

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4127627&mesg_id=4127627

An insider's look at the credit crisis...

[Demeter]

6. Crossposting: I Want a National Bank

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4140690&mesg_id=4140690

Lots of interesting stuff coming in from all sources...

[AnneD]

85. Morning Marketeers......

:donut: and lurkers. I was listening to an interesting story on NPR on the way in to work this morning. A reporter was talking about the volume and the complexity of the news stories coming out today, especially the financial news. He was talking about the difficult of reporting them in depth etc.,etc.,etc.

And then it hit me. This is a watershed moment-like 1968. In fact, what 1968 did for our culture.....this time 2008 will do for economics. As 1968 was a blow back from our domino war strategy with communism, 2008 is a blow back for this trickle down crap and the war on terra.

Maybe I am spit balling here, but I do see some strong parallels. The Congress, esp the House, has woken up to the fact that John and Jane Q. Public are paying attention to the situation and they will either pay attention to the public or the their corporate overlords. I have noticed a change in tact with these folks trying to sell the public on this plan more than Congress. They are trying to scare us, sell us a plan that even THEY are sure it will work. I think that the longer the public holds out-the more they will sweeten the pot. If the high up muckity mucks really understood how things really were on Main Street, they would know that threats of 'how bad it will get' doesn't scare us. WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN LIVING THIS RECESSION/DEPRESSION for 1-2 years now. I think we should continue to hold 'their' feet to the fire til they feel OUR pain.

Well, I have already changed my coffee to decaf-I may have to give it up for tea to keep my blood pressure down. Maybe I should unplug totally-ignorance is bliss after all.

Happy hunting and watch out for the bears.

[Demeter]

109. It's Been 7 Years for Michigan

We've been in Depression since 9/11/2001.

Don't know if it's because of our Arabic immigrant numbers, or disdain of the Motor City, or what, but we've been getting the short end of the stick for so long, we're kind of used to it.

[AnneD]

122. Remember....

lot's of folks have had "jobless recoveries'. We have been tipping toward recession since shrub came to office, we are in a full fledge Depression now. Nothing will change that-not even 700 billion. I think it will only buy a few months.

[ozymandius]

5. Today's Reports

00:00 Auto Sales Sep
Briefing.com 4.5m
Consensus NA
Prior 4.5M

00:00 Truck Sales Sep
Briefing.com 5.9m
Consensus NA
Prior 5.9M

08:15 ADP Employment Sep
Briefing.com NA
Consensus -53K
Prior -33K

10:00 Construction Spending Aug
Briefing.com -0.4%
Consensus -0.5%
Prior -0.6%

10:00 ISM Index Sep
Briefing.com 50.1
Consensus 49.5
Prior 49.9

10:35 Crude Inventories 09/27
Briefing.com NA
Consensus NA
Prior NA

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm

[UpInArms]

36. Layoff announcements rise 33% in September

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/economic-report-corporate-layoff-announcements-up/story.aspx?guid=%7B76F2CAEE%2DC736%2D4F5F%2DB3EE%2DF1E7183B4232%7D&dist=hplatest

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Large U.S. companies announced plans to eliminate 95,094 jobs in September, 33% more than a year earlier, according to a nonscientific tally released Wednesday by outplacement firm Challenger Gray & Christmas.

For the third quarter, layoff announcements rose 48% from a year earlier to 287,142, the highest three-month total in nearly three years.

Although the collapse of several big financial firms dominated the news in September, the financial sector actually announced relatively few cuts during the month: 8,244.

"It may take several weeks or months for the fallout from September's Wall Street turmoil to hit the employment numbers," said John Challenger, CEO of the firm that bears his name.

Workers' fate, he said, "remains in limbo," while some firms are taken over by other banks, some are liquidated and others are taken over by the government.

<snip>

In July, for instance, a total of 1.7 million workers were let go, representing about 1.2% of total employment, according to the latest available data from the Labor Department. By comparison, 2.5 million people quit their jobs voluntarily in July.

...more...

[Demeter]

38. Challenger, Gray Christmas? Are they having you on?

It's sounds like Dewey, Cheatham and Howe!

[UpInArms]

39. actually a reputable firm

:hi:

http://www.challengergray.com/offices/aboutus.aspx

Challenger, Gray & Christmas, Inc. is the nation’s first, oldest and premier outplacement consulting firm.

Founded in the early 1960s, the firm’s primary goal is to assist displaced workers make the transition to reemployment. It has a proven record of success, conducting fully individualized programs and one-on one consulting for each individual who participates in the process. The firm’s clients find new jobs in a median time of 3.2 months compared to the five months cited by the Wall Street Journal as the average job-search length.

The company achieves these results through an operating philosophy that places emphases in the importance of the job interview and going out and attacking the job market rather than mailing letters, sitting back and waiting for the phone to ring with job offers that may never come. Clients are counseled on the necessity of daily interviewing as the means to successful reemployment.

The firm has offices in major cities across the nation in addition to Canada and overseas, which expands the company’s ability to assist individuals who conduct regional and/or national job searches.

At Challenger, Gray & Christmas, the counseling and sales functions are separated, with a full-time professional staff which does counseling only, rather than sales executives who function as counselors when they have time. It assures that the client works one-on-one with a counselor who is readily available and is not distracted by making sales calls.

...more...

[Demeter]

41. It's Just Sounds Like the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come

a challenging, gray one!

[UpInArms]

43. ...

:scared:

[Dr.Phool]

50. Is that a subsidiary of Dewey, Scruem, and Howe?

[Pale Blue Dot]

44. Wow.

:-(

[UpInArms]

45. From the Always Wrong ADP - ya think they might be a bit off?

01. U.S. Sept. ADP employment index down 8,000 jobs
8:16 AM ET, Oct 01, 2008

a loss of 8,000 jobs is such a hoot!

that would be a great report!

[ozymandius]

47. Anything to avoid framing our malaise as a 'recession'.

More of the soviet ideology bubbling out of the Bush bureau of facts-n-figures.

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

76. No kidding

I am amazed at how many "experts" still refuse to say we are in a recession.

[Dr.Phool]

51. I was gonna come back and post, after I finished the thread.

Just for a joke, I was going to see who wanted to make a bet that they said 10,000 jobs were created. I said, nah, even they wouldn't be that stupid. Even as a joke.

I guess I was wrong.

There's probably 8,000 jobs missing, just in Tampa.

[Roland99]

74. U.S. Sept. ISM manufacturing index plunges to 43.5%

U.S. Sept. ISM manufacturing index plunges to 43.5%
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B38771BDA%2DEC70%2D41C6%2D8365%2DA1DE37303BA3%7D&siteid=mktw

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The nation's manufacturers cut back production at a much faster pace than expected in September, the Institute for Supply Management reported Wednesday. This is the lowest level since October 2001. The ISM index plunged to 43.5% in September from 49.9% in August. This is the biggest drop in the index since 1984. The drop surprised economists. The consensus forecast of estimates collected by Marketwatch was for the index to slip only a bit to 49.6%. Readings below 50 indicate contraction. The ISM index has been holding near 50 since the summer. The previous low this year was 48.3 in February. Economists said the ISM index was near recessionary levels. End of Story

[Dr.Phool]

84. Near recessionary levels......

We've been hearing that for a year. When does it hit?

[UpInArms]

94. It's time for the "Rate Cut Boogy!"

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/economic-report-ism-factory-sector/story.aspx?guid=%7B154120DB%2D1C5E%2D46C6%2D8657%2D483621B89419%7D&dist=hplatest

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The nation's manufacturing firms were contracting at a much faster pace than expected in September, one of the clearest signs to date that the economy has entered recession territory, according to a closely watched survey of top executives released Wednesday.

The Institute for Supply Management index fell to 43.5% from 49.9% in August, much lower than the 49.6% expected by economists surveyed by MarketWatch. See Economic Calendar.

This marked the sharpest one-month drop in the index since 1984. The index is now at its lowest level since October 2001. Read full survey.

Prior to September, the ISM has been treading water, hovering around 50. This seen as a signal the economy was muddling along. But now economists said there is little chance that months of negative growth can be avoided.

The index is known to be a favorite indicator of Federal Reserve officials. The drop adds to evidence that the economy is slowing enough to bring the Fed off the sidelines to cut its benchmark interest rates below 2% when they meet at the end of the month.

Readings below 50% in the ISM diffusion index indicate that more firms are contracting than growing. The ISM tracks the breadth of growth across firms, asking purchasing managers if business is better this month than last.

...more...

[UpInArms]

79. U.S. Sept. ISM manufacturing index 43.5% vs 49.9% in Aug.

04. U.S. Sept ISM manufacturing index well below 49.6% consensus
10:01 AM ET, Oct 01, 2008

05. U.S. Sept. ISM manufacturing index 43.5% vs 49.9% in Aug.
10:01 AM ET, Oct 01, 2008

[UpInArms]

91. Petroleum Inventories Report:

01. U.S. crude supply up 4.3 mln brls last week: Energy Dept.
10:36 AM ET, Oct 01, 2008

02. U.S. distillate supply down 2.3 mln brls: Energy Dept.
10:36 AM ET, Oct 01, 2008

03. U.S. gasoline supply up 900,000 brls: Energy Dept.
10:36 AM ET, Oct 01, 2008

[UpInArms]

104. TABLE-Ford Sept U.S. vehicle sales off adj. 30.9 pct

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0150960920081001

Oct 1 (Reuters) - Following are Ford Motor Co (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) U.S. sales of cars and light trucks in September 2008 versus the
same year-earlier month and for the year to date.

                       Sept 2008      Sept 2007    % Change

 All Vehicles               116,356        175,504      -30.9%
 Domestic Car                40,453         50,212      -16.1%
 Domestic Truck              75,903        125,292      -36.9%
 Import Car                       0              0        N.A.
 Import Truck                     0              0        N.A.
 Dom+Imp Cars                40,453         50,212      -16.1%
 Dom+Imp Trucks              75,903        125,292      -36.9%
 Domestic Vehicles          116,356        175,504      -30.9%
 Imported Vehicles                0              0        N.A.

                      Yr-to-Date      Prev Year    % Change

 All Vehicles             1,528,387      1,844,117      -17.1%
 Domestic Car               550,752        588,001       -6.3%
 Domestic Truck             977,635      1,256,116      -22.2%
 Import Car                       0              0        N.A.
 Import Truck                     0              0        N.A.
 Dom+Imp Cars               550,752        588,001       -6.3%
 Dom+Imp Trucks             977,635      1,256,116      -22.2%
 Domestic Vehicles        1,528,387      1,844,117      -17.1%
 Imported Vehicles                0              0        N.A.
 -------------------------------------------------------------

Percent changes are based on the daily sales rate, and
reflect 24 selling days this month vs. 25 in the month last
year, and 230 this year to date vs. 230 last year to date.
Excludes Volvo and heavy truck sales.

[ozymandius]

7. Oil rises to near $102 on bailout plan hopes

SINGAPORE - Oil prices rose to almost $102 a barrel Wednesday in Asia on expectations that U.S. lawmakers will pass a revised bank bailout plan that they rejected earlier this week.

Light, sweet crude for November delivery was up $1.34 to $101.98 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange by midafternoon in Singapore. Overnight, oil rose $4.27 to settle at $100.64.

....

Investors also have an eye on the weekly oil inventories report to be released later Wednesday from the U.S. Energy Department's Energy Information Administration. The petroleum supply report was expected to show that oil stocks rose as much as 1.5 million or fell as much as 1.5 million barrels, according to the average of analysts' estimates in a survey by energy information provider Platts.

The Platts survey also showed that analysts projected gasoline inventories fell between 1 million and 3 million barrels and distillates went down between 1 million and 2 million barrels last week.

....

In other Nymex trading, heating oil futures rose 3.18 cents $2.9265 a gallon, while gasoline prices gained 3.23 cents to $2.49 a gallon. Natural gas for November delivery rose 13.2 cents to $7.57 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices

[Demeter]

10. When Are These Idiots Going to Accept Reality?

Whatever the bailout will be, it will not be more of the same. It can't be. This economy will not support another bubble of any kind, and the voters won't stand for it. The Party's OVER!

It's time for the giddy, emotional types to get into their Grandparents' Great Depression mode and plan accordingly.

[ozymandius]

12. On the other side of the coin: other idiots need to 'get it'

Any bailout at the magnitude that has been proposed will flatline the dollar. Oil goes up because of hedges against a drop in the dollar's intrinsic value. So the world is populated with idiots hither and yon who don't give a shit about anything but a balance sheet.

[sendero]

24. I've been trying to explain..

... the inflation/interestRateRise/dollarDrop that will be a certain result of throwing 700B more dollars at this problem with limited success.

It seems to me that DUers are only a little more savvy than the average American about economics, which is to say they are not savvy at all.

Many here seem to think there is a magic bullet solution to the mess we find ourselves in, when it comes to economics there are and never have been ANY magic bullets.

[ozymandius]

27. It makes me think that Bernanke never read any John Locke.

Or maybe Bernanke read Locke's thoughts on the value of money through access to supply (and value dilution) but doesn't care.

[sendero]

30. It might just ..

... be simply a matter of who's ox is getting gored. Bernanke knows full well what this will do, but he's decided that sticking it to everyone who owns a dollar is preferable to sticking it to the banks that made this mess.

[Demeter]

139. I Think You Overestimate Bernanke

I don't think he knows what will happen, furthermore, he doesn't care. He's not even concerned that he doesn't know. He is a closet Shrugger.

[Dr.Phool]

37. Wander out into GD, and you'll see mission accomplished.

A lot of people are scared shitless. As if they've never experienced Bush fear mongering before. Try to explain to them exactly how the dollar will flatline, and this cure is worse than the disease, and you'll get the same reception as David Duke at a Black Panther reunion.

No body gets it, that that bill was Grover Norquist's bathtub. The Gov't will be so drowned in debt and inflation, there will be nothing to pay for anything.

[Tansy_Gold]

48. They may be scared shitless, but they're still begging for the

bailout.

Maybe the bathtub analogy is appropriate -- the bail-out is really a bail-in to drown us in the debt.


People (including those on GD) are terrified of a "great depression" scenario with 20% unemployed, soup and bread lines, etc. They haven't reached the point yet of understanding that the longer the surgery is delayed, the more drastic it must be and the less chance there is of the patient's ultimate survival.


Tansy Gold, surviving so far

[Dr.Phool]

73. I meet some interesting people at the dog park.

I was talking to a guy on Sat., he's self employed in tech support, and computer repair, and he's about to go under. He's also in a Reserve Unit. He's trying to get back on active duty, because he'll make more money, and get healthcare benefits. He wants to go back on submarine duty, no less.

He said that the reserve keeps a close tab on what people are doing on the outside. He say's according to their figures over 30% of his unit is unemployed. And about 50% of his unit were self-employed small business owners, and a lot of them have gone under recently.

[Roland99]

70. Are we the DU elitist?

;)

[Tansy_Gold]

87. Well, apparently that is a bad thing

I just started reading "The Uncivil War: How a New Elite is Destroying Our Democracy" by David Lebedoff. A friend who knows Lebedoff lent me the book.

Though I'm only a few pages into it, I'm finding it very disturbing since it seems to be an indictment of the liberal elites as trying to replace "democracy" with a kind of rule by people who think they know more/better than the uneducated masses. The masses -- the blessed majority that is the essence of democracy -- will unerringly vote for the candidate who seems most like themselves and LEAST like the smart-ass know-it-all elites. (Clinton overcame this by seeming to be a good ol' boy and effectively disguised his know-it-all educated elite true self. Supposedly. . . .)

Does this have something to do with the general dumbing down of the American electorate over the past 20-40 years? :shrug: I dunno.

Personally, I *like* smart people! Guess that makes me one of them?


Or trying to be



Tansy Gold

[Roland99]

89. They don't know (or don't care) that dumbing down America will lead to its demise (as we know it)

[Demeter]

110. Sounds Like Hooey To Me

There haven't been any smart people in government for so long that I've given up hope.

Jimmy Carter was smart, but his buddies were total idiotic good ole boys.

Let's not even discuss Reagan. Nancy was the smartest one there.

Then Poppy Bush--enough said.

Clinton was smart, and he had some smart people, but by then Congress had been so dumbed down by Gingrich as to be less than useless and actually harmful.

Bush the Sequel--not gonna go there, wouldn't be prudent.

Then along comes Obama, and I'm beginning to think maybe it can be done. Maybe the governmental IQ can get somewhere north of 100 again, and ethics will come into fashion. Maybe.

[PassingFair]

134. That reminds me of this:

When a candidate for public office faces the voters he does not face men of sense; he faces a mob of men whose chief distinguishing mark is that they are quite incapable of weighing ideas, or even of comprehending any save the most elemental -- men whose whole thinking is done in terms of emotion, and

whose dominant emotion is dread of what they cannot understand. So

confronted, the candidate must either bark with the pack, or count himself

lost. His one aim is to disarm suspicion, to arouse confidence in his

orthodoxy, to avoid challenge. If he is a man of convictions, of enthusiasm,

or self-respect, it is cruelly hard…

"The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small

electorates, a first rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even a mob with him by the force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second or third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically the most devious and mediocre -- the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual

vacuum.

The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is

perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the

plain folks of the land will reach their hearts desire at last, and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."


--H.L. Mencken, The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

[TalkingDog]

90. Elite. We are elite.

Elite is a fact. Elitist is a slur.

We should own elite. We should reject elitist.

I ask people: Would you rather have brain surgery performed by an elite professional in neurosurgery or by a regular folks orderly?

(p.s. I know you are teasing... anti-intellectualism is my button, and I cop to letting it get pushed.)

*Maybe I've had too much coffee....*

[Roland99]

96. good point!

[Tansy_Gold]

130. I don't mind being elite. I sort of mind the connotation, but . . . .

. . . . it seems that "elite" has become synonymous with smart, educated, capable of (critical) thinking, tolerant, willing to listen and consider other points of view, nuanced, all those other good things, and I don't understand why anyone would reject them.

At one time, didn't people generally (and genuinely) respect and admire people who were smart, educated, capable of (critical) thinking, etc., etc., etc.? What happened? I know, I know, the dumbing down, and so on.

It seems to me that one of the great accomplishments of 20th century America was the post-WW2 GI bill that gave so many access to higher education. I'm a boomer, and by the time I graduated high school in 1966, fully half of my class of probably 500 or so went on to college. No, not all of us graduated four or five years later (hell, it took me until 2000!) but we at least had the opportunity.

And maybe that's one place we need to re-start, or jump-start, the American renaissance: education. Not this teach-to-the-test NCLB crap. REAL education. And make a whole lot more elites.


Tansy Gold

[TalkingDog]

135. You have defined elite.

Both the haves and the have-nots have redefined it as: a presumption of superiority due to money, power, privilege

Elite:
a. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: "In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them" Times Literary Supplement.
b. The best or most skilled members of a group: the football team's elite.

Notice that there is only one mention of money in those definitions. No mentions of power or privilege - which may or may not be implied. But I certainly don't think the top thinkers and specialists in the field of bivalve anatomy have any more power or privilege than you or I, unless you count a good working knowledge of the best locations for clam digging.

Also note that there is no mention of condescension, attitudes of superiority or disdain toward those who do not share their traits.

Best or most skilled rather than a false sense of superiority based on money, power or privilege.

Which leaves us stuck with both elitism and reverse elitism. Those without hate those that have. Those that have disdain those that don't.

Let them fight each other. Hopefully that will only leave the Elites. And maybe we can figure out a better way.

[Pale Blue Dot]

93. Yep. Very frustrating.

Often they're the same people who were saying months ago that the fundamentals of the economy were strong.

[54anickel]

69. Throwing money at the problem has been the answer throughout the average DUers lifespan. Although

we may have come close in the past, we've always escaped a repeat of a Great Depression. The generation that lived through the GD is pretty much gone now. The ones in my family that are still around aren't looking for any magic bullet. They're recommending stocking up on the ammo and gardening tools though.

As far as economics, I think the professionals are having a difficult time wrapping their heads around this mess. Most people I went to college with had their eyes pretty much glazed over thru Economics 101, including the Business majors.

One would think the inflation/interestRateRise/dollarDrop would have come home to roost long before now with the debt Dimson and friends have run up, but it hasn't yet. We're in uncharted waters here, there's no way to accurately model this based on previous experience. I sure can understand and can't fault folks for clinging to what they know. :shrug:

[Tansy_Gold]

101. The depth (and appeal) of ignorance

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7266900

I posted the link to the DU thread for those who might want to monitor any discussion that transpires.


The thread topic is a Rocky Mountain News editorial on Palin's ignorance, the depth of it and the dangers of it. But at the same time it subtly recognizes the appeal of that ignorance -- and why the appeal itself is dangerous.



Tansy Gold, who is also dangerous

[Demeter]

111. But in The Nicest Possible Way, Tansy!

I know in my heart that you will be ruthless when it's called for, and compassionate at any other time. Those are the dangers of ethics, and it drives the crooked wild.

[Tansy_Gold]

137. Awwww.. . . . . . . .

:blush:

[54anickel]

121. Critical thinking is so 60's! :- p

[Demeter]

141. True That! And Due for a Revival!

[Tansy_Gold]

143. Like a lot of other things from the 60s!!!

(okay, just engaging in a little nostalgia for a mis-spent youth. . .. .)

[Festivito]

8. Debt: 09/29/2008 9,945,578,231,981.59 (UP 56,378,700,532.51) (not including the Fed)

(The Federal Reserve printed nearly 700B$ just as the vote on the 700B$ bill happened. Hmmmm. But that does not affect any of these numbers.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
5,774,962,168,083.97 + 4,170,616,063,897.62
(Public, I think now includes China and Brazil et. al.)

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

HISTORICAL:
President's term ends/begins: Jan 20
01/20/1993 4,188,092,107,183.60 BC Inaugural
01/22/2001 5,728,195,796,181.57 BC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
09/29/2008 9,945,578,231,981.59 ** (UP 4,217,382,435,800.02 so far)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years.)
Borrowed in 1993: (OLDER DATA IS MISSING)
Borrowed in 1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in 1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in 1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in 1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in 1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in 1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in 2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in 2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in 2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in 2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in 2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in 2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in 2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in 2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in 2008: 937,924,859,719.11 so far.

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3519234&mesg_id=3519275

[ozymandius]

15. The Fed acts like rogue organization.

Repos have given the Fed the resources it needs to juice the system. Hundreds of billions of dollars have flowed from The Fed into the banking sector over the past week. Money is running mad.

[Festivito]

23. Hadn't thought of it as a land-grab based outpouring before.

Expected and land grab, but wasn't sure of the manner is which it would be effected.

[DemReadingDU]

49. What day is this debt for?

I'm confused trying to keep up with these massive numbers.

Yesterday was September 30, and your posting concerned debt for 9/29/08.

and today, is October 1, but the debt is still for 9/29/08?

[Festivito]

53. Close of day 9/29. 9/30 is not posted. Will be end of qtr & yr.

That will make it interesting.

The numbers are massive. Try dividing it by the number of Americans. About $36,000 each. I use $4 per billion. Easier. And good to keep the numbers real.

Then multiply by the number of people in your family where you share expenses. Then look at your house and its loan adding YOUR part of the debt and see just how much trouble we are all in.

They cannot hide this information, they can only make us wait, move the site, make it harder to get the data, make it more confusing, even drop data from the past. We need to keep at it.

Thanks for asking.

[DemReadingDU]

54. and thank you for your daily postings

It's stunning the amount of debt this administration has gotten us into.

[Roland99]

71. I second the thanks!

[tama]

127. Broke the 10T, woot!

[ozymandius]

9. Roosevelt talk on unstable economy oddly prescient

ATLANTA - The "mirage" of American economic invulnerability has vanished, along with "much of the savings of thrifty and prudent men and women," the presidential hopeful told the crowd.

"We need to correct, by drastic means if necessary, the faults in our economic system from which we now suffer," he said.

Those words could have come from John McCain or Barack Obama this week, but they were spoken to the graduating class of Atlanta's Oglethorpe University by Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the Democrat who went on to win the 1932 election three years into the Great Depression.

.....

"We have not been brought to our present state by any natural calamity — by drought or floods or earthquakes or by the destruction of our productive machine or our man power," Roosevelt told the crowd. "This is the awful paradox with which we are confronted, a stinging rebuke that challenges our power to operate the economic machine which we have created."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081001/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown_roosevelt

---

I am currently studying Roosevelt and how his administration navigated the New Deal. Eighty years hence and his ideas still reverberate loudly with their relevance.

[ozymandius]

11. Small Banks Score a Coup by Lobbying

WASHINGTON — An obscure proposal to increase federal insurance on bank deposits won the support of the Bush administration, both presidential candidates and Republican and Democratic lawmakers on Tuesday, in a major lobbying coup for community banks.

At the same time that the measure was being hailed by Democrats and Republicans as a way to rescue the rescue plan, thousands of independent bankers scrambled to drum up support for the package in communities across the country.

The chairwoman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, Sheila C. Bair, gave a ringing endorsement for the concept of increasing the limit on insured deposits to $250,000 from $100,000, at least temporarily.

....

Increasing the cap on deposit insurance, proponents say, would bolster confidence in the banking system and would help small-business owners, who often keep more than $100,000 to meet payroll or for daily operations.

....

But the real force behind it — and the big beneficiary — was the group that represents 8,000 local banks across the country, the Independent Community Bankers of America. The group has been in a long-running battle with rival financial institutions like money-market mutual funds and money management companies over insured deposits.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/business/01ideas.html?ref=us

[Demeter]

13. It Was a Sensible Idea, For One Thing

Which makes it unlikely in the extreme to come to pass....

[ozymandius]

14. Regulators Ease Securities-Valuation Rules

Damn these assholes!

WASHINGTON -- The Securities and Exchange Commission and the U.S. accounting-standard setter issued guidance that will allow companies to use more flexibility when valuing securities in a market that has dried up, a move the banking industry hopes will relieve pressure on company balance sheets.

Tuesday, the SEC and Financial Accounting Standards Board issued "clarification" to accounting rules that require companies to value securities at the price for which they can be sold in the market, known as mark-to-market, or fair value, accounting. FASB said it is preparing additional guidance for later this week.

The clarifications allow executives to use their own financial models and judgment if no market exists or if assets are being sold only at fire-sale prices. They were welcomed by banking and financial-services groups that have lobbied the SEC and FASB to change the rules. Those efforts were ramped up in recent days as Congress was drafting a rescue bill.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122282710053493045.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

---

So they can lie? This was done because investors were confused about a company's fair value? This sounds like a scheme to skirt the Sarbanes-Oxley act.

[mmonk]

97. It's because of the credit log jam.

[ozymandius]

16. UBS Said to Eliminate 1,900 Investment Banking Jobs (Update2)

Oct. 1 (Bloomberg) -- UBS AG, the European bank with the biggest losses from the credit crisis, plans to eliminate about 1,900 jobs in its investment banking, equities, and fixed income units, two people with knowledge of the matter said.

The bank may announce the plans at tomorrow's shareholder meeting, according to the people, who declined to be identified because they weren't authorized to discuss the cuts, which would amount to about 10 percent of the total investment banking staff. Support staff jobs will also go, the people added. Rohini Pragasam, a UBS spokeswoman in New York, declined to comment.

UBS, Switzerland's biggest bank, is scaling back its investment banking unit, which it plans to separate from wealth and asset management after mounting writedowns prompted rich clients to withdraw funds for the first time in almost eight years. The cuts add to the 7,000 already announced by Zurich- based UBS, and would bring to more than 131,700 the total number of jobs eliminated at banks worldwide since July 2007.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abPJXo3vxIaA&refer=home

[ozymandius]

17. U.S. Stock Futures Drop on Economy Concern; GE, Citigroup Fall

Oct. 1 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stock-index futures fell, signaling the Standard & Poor's 500 Index may pare the biggest rally since 2002, as investors speculated a $700 billion bank- rescue plan from Congress will fail to avert a recession.

General Electric Co. dropped 2.2 percent in European trading before industry reports that may show manufacturing contracted at a faster pace in September and companies cut jobs for a second month. Citigroup Inc. declined 1.8 percent as people familiar with the matter said regulators probably will resist calls to suspend the fair-value accounting rules that some members of Congress blame for worsening the credit crisis.

S&P 500 futures expiring in December lost 15.1, or 1.3 percent, to 1,153.9 at 11:21 a.m. in London. Dow Jones Industrial Average futures slipped 1 percent to 10,752. Nasdaq-100 Index futures fell 1.2 percent to 1,585.25. Most European stocks and Asian shares advanced, while Treasuries climbed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=aZtODUBzB6sE

[ozymandius]

18. Cash-Starved Companies Scrap Dividends, Tap Credit to Survive

Oct. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Carmike Cinemas Inc., the third- largest U.S. theater chain by screens, suspended its dividend, while Duke Energy Corp., owner of utilities in five U.S. states, tapped $1 billion from a credit agreement and RC2 Corp., the maker of infant and preschool products, canceled an acquisition.

The paralysis in credit markets is changing how U.S. companies do business as banks pull back on loans or make them prohibitively expensive. Some companies are closing plants and stores, postponing takeovers and grabbing any available credit in a fight for survival.

.....

Investors will be watching today to see whether Ford Motor Co., the second-largest U.S. automaker, will repay $1.5 billion in debt with cash rather than tap a revolving credit line, as analysts predict. Slumping auto sales and surging borrowing costs may boost U.S. new-vehicle dealership closures as much as 40 percent this year, the National Automobile Dealers Association said yesterday.

.....

Banks more than doubled the interest rate they charge each other for borrowing dollars overnight, known as the London interbank offered rate, to a record 6.88 percent yesterday, the British Bankers' Association said. Adding to the financial stress was the U.S. House of Representatives' rejection of a $700 billion bank-rescue plan Sept. 29 and the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. on Sept. 15.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aa28qIGme_R8&refer=exclusive

[Tansy_Gold]

35. I know this is a stupid question but......

Why are all these companies "cash strapped"? Aren't they making a profit? Shouldn't they be paying dividends out of profits, not loans?

Shouldn't Ford be repaying debt with profits rather than borrowing more to pay an existing debt? (If this were an individual, paying one credit card with another, wouldn't we call them nuts?)

Am I just really dumb, or am I looking at this Bloomberg article as painting a picture of companies engaging in very UNSOUND business practices?


I guess I'm either dumb or




Tansy Gold

[ozymandius]

19. Citigroup Gains Scale, Confidence From Regulators (Update2)

Sept. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Citigroup Inc.'s rescue of Wachovia Corp. and its banking operations creates the third-biggest U.S. branch network while aiding regulators seeking to prop up confidence in financial institutions.

The purchase gives Citigroup about 4,300 U.S. offices and 3,300 worldwide. The bank will cut its dividend in half, to 16 cents from 32 cents, and raise $10 billion. The stock deal, announced before rejection of a bank bailout sent U.S. shares tumbling the most in 20 years, values Wachovia at $1 a share.

Citigroup Chief Executive Officer Vikram Pandit, who has been shedding assets after reporting two straight quarterly losses totaling a record $15 billion, said on a conference call the Wachovia acquisition made sense. The purchase will push New York-based Citigroup to third place among U.S. bank networks, behind Bank of America Corp. and JPMorgan Chase & Co.

....

Citigroup will absorb as much as $42 billion of losses on Wachovia's $312 billion in loans, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. said in a statement. The regulator will take on additional losses in exchange for $12 billion in preferred stock and warrants.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=akmP0DJ5bk4E&refer=exclusive

[ozymandius]

20. The father of one of my students works for Wachovia.

He told me yesterday that his father still has a job - but the branch nearest the school has been hollowed-out. Many employees left Friday afternoon carrying their personal belongings. The meltdown is so close to home in the faces I see every day. It stings.

[DemReadingDU]

21. Rep Brad Sherman, Karl Denninger - Real Reason for the Bailout

Here is the original video on CNBC...
Larry Kudlow discusses the bailout bill with Brad Sherman D-CA - Sherman says the bill is about buying hundreds of billions of dollars to bail out foreigners
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=873682522&play=1

Here is Karl Denninger's response...
Its not about you. Its not about Main Street. Its not even about Wall Street. No, its about Shanghai, London, Berlin and Sydney.
The cover was blown this evening on Kudlow. If you don't get this video into the hands of the entire American Population within the next 24 hours, you are going to be paying taxes to cover the bad debt on a failed office building - or a hundred of them - in China.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GqIFoBXGizc

[Karenina]

46. Well, Denninger is certainly entertaining!

And his premise is as valid as blaming minorities for the sub-prime mess. WestLB is just the latest institution to br burned by the Americans.

More on that here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3520743

[DemReadingDU]

72. Mike Shedlock: Rep. Brad Sherman On Bailing Out Foreign Investors

video and partial transcript

Larry Kudlow:
Let me just ask you one question. I think you are referring to foreign banks headquartered in the United States. I do not see how foreign investors get bailed out.

Rep. Brad Sherman:
Larry you have to read the bill. It's very clear. The Bank of Shanghai can transfer all of its toxic assets to the Bank of Shanghai of Los Angeles which can then sell them the next day to the Treasury. I had a provision to say if it wasn't owned by an American entity even a subsidiary, but at least an entity in the US, the Treasury can't buy it. It was rejected.

The bill is very clear. Assets now held in China and London can be sold to US entities on Monday and then sold to the Treasury on Tuesday. Paulson has made it clear he will recommend a veto of any bill that contained a clear provision that said if Americans did not own the asset on September 20th that it can't be sold to the Treasury.

more...
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/10/rep-brad-sherman-on-bailing-out-foreign.html

[jdog]

98. Excellent post!

I cannot believe the way this information is being buried. Totally unacceptable!

[DemReadingDU]

22. Columbus, Oh - Trial starts today for National Century CEO

10/1/08
The former CEO accused of turning the nation's largest buyer of health-care receivables into the nation's largest case of private fraud is about to take center stage.

Lance K. Poulsen, founder of Dublin-based National Century Financial Enterprises, is scheduled to go on trial today in U.S. District Court in Columbus for fraud that left investors with losses in the billions.

Poulsen will be the only defendant in the room, but his defense attorneys have made it clear that the 65-year-old won't be the only one on trial.

Some of the nation's biggest banks, which served as trustees for the company, and powerhouse auditing firms are also likely to face attack, the attorneys have indicated in their court filings.

The Securities Exchange Commission found Bank One and JPMorgan Chase, which now owns Bank One, culpable for negligent conduct while serving as National Century's bank trustees.

The SEC has made similar findings with accounting firms PricewaterhouseCoopers and Deloitte & Touche while auditing National Century.

Documents from the SEC's case "could arguably support any theory that JPMorgan Chase or Bank One shared responsibility for any purported wrongdoing or was fully responsible," Poulsen's attorneys have said in court filings.

Pete Anderson and William Terpening, Poulsen's principal defense attorneys did not respond to calls yesterday seeking comment. Fred Alverson, spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office, said prosecutors do not comment on cases before trial.

National Century bought health-care providers' uncollected debt owed by insurance companies or programs such as Medicaid and gave the providers cash to cover expenses.

The providers didn't have to wait for insurance reimbursement, and National Century kept a fee or percentage of what it collected.

National Century amassed funds to pay the health-care providers by selling bonds to investors. The business model was designed with safeguards: keeping 17 cents in reserve for every dollar loaned and a pledge to purchase only receivables that had a high probability of being paid off.

But that is not what happened, federal prosecutors say.

Poulsen paid himself and his executives handsomely and offered millions in unsecured loans to companies National Century executives partly owned. Investors were none the wiser because false numbers were reported to show the company was financially strong.

All the while, the company's reserves shrank and new business was used to simply pay off old debt, prosecutors proved in a trial of five other National Century executives earlier this year.

Donald H. Ayers and Rebecca S. Parrett, who founded the company with Poulsen, along with Roger S. Faulkenberry, Randolph H. Speer and James E. Dierker Jr. all were convicted of fraud that led to the company's November 2002 implosion.

Parrett, who was freed pending sentencing, took off and remains on the lam. The rest were given sentences of between 5 and 15 years.

This is Poulsen's second trial this year. He was sentenced in August to 10 years in prison for obstruction of justice and witness tampering for trying to get the government's key witness in the fraud case to fake amnesia.

If convicted of the fraud charges, Poulsen could get life in prison.

http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/01/Poulsen.ART_ART_10-01-08_A1_4IBFQHQ.html?sid=101


link backwards to previous articles...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3445731&mesg_id=3445770

[struggle4progress]

25. Senate Expects Easy Passage Of Bailout

Senate To Vote Tonight
POSTED: 4:30 am MDT October 1, 2008
UPDATED: 4:47 am MDT October 1, 2008

The Senate expects to easily pass its version of a financial bailout plan Wednesday night ... The Senate is trying to force the House's hand on the $700 billion measure ... The Senate plan would also raise federal deposit insurance limits to $250,000 from $100,000. That's an idea that's been endorsed by both presidential nominees. By also adding legislation to prevent more than 20 million middle-class taxpayers from feeling the bite of the alternative minimum tax, the step could build momentum for a Wall Street rescue among House Republicans ...

http://www.koat.com/save-money/17596060/detail.html

[struggle4progress]

26. US plan to ditch fair value 'shoots the messenger'

Republicans in the US and Tories in the UK propose suspension of mark to market rules to solve global banking crisis
Written by David Jetuah
Accountancy Age, 01 Oct 2008

Banks have no alternative to fair value accounting, a leading standards expert has said, after US congressmen proposed suspending the controversial ‘mark-to-market’ rules as they struck down the US government’s $700bn (£370bn) bailout ...

Republican critics of Hank Paulson’s $700bn bailout for Wall Street said that it would have been better to suspend fair value.

Tory shadow chancellor George Osborne this week echoed the view with a call for a three month suspension of mark-to-market. The Tories say the assets should be valued according to what the banks ‘expect to get out of them over the long term’ ...

‘Mark-to-market has taken some flak in recent weeks, but there is an element of “shoot the messenger” in all of this. 15 years ago, everything was done at historical cost. Saying, “let’s just use averages” for example strikes me as a bit of a nonsense. Accounts are meant to be objective’ <said Ken Wild IFRS leader at Deloitte> ...

http://www.accountancyage.com/accountancyage/news/2227255/plan-ditch-fair-value-shoots-4258985

[ozymandius]

28. This grants a license to lie a-la Enron.

See my post #14. It's foolish to think this tactic will fix anything.

[struggle4progress]

34. Agree -- & link says so too. But it's good to know what ground my enemies are defending

[UpInArms]

29. dollar watch

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=i

Last trade 79.091 Change -0.306 (-0.39%)

Euro Tumbles As Weaker CPI Adds to Speculation of ECB Rate Cuts - Will They Do It?

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/bio1/Euro_Tumbles_As_Weaker_CPI_1222814501512.html

The US dollar rebounded across the majors as the financial markets speculated that the Treasury’s bailout bill would be approved by the US House of Representatives eventually, despite its failure on Monday. Meanwhile, overnight interest rates as measured by Libor surged in the US relative to other countries, providing more incentive for dollar bulls. Likewise, US economic data proved to be better than expected, as Chicago PMI fell less than estimated to 56.7 from 57.9. The bigger surprise, though, came in the form of sentiment indicators, as the Conference Board consumer confidence index actually improved during the month of September to 59.8 from a downwardly revised 58.5. This marked the third consecutive improvement, but looking at the report's breakdown, it is clear that we should remain cautious going forward on the continuation of this strong trend. Indeed, the current condition and outlook figures were clearly split. The present situation reading dropped to a new low with the labor differential dropping (a net 20.6 percent of respondents expect fewer jobs) and perceived business conditions slumped. Countering this, expectations improved for a third month. It’s worth noting that this survey’s cutoff date was on September 23rd, so it may not accurately reflect consumers’ responses to the credit crisis and the House’s vote down of the bailout bill.

Looking ahead to Wednesday, the release of ISM Manufacturing presents a good amount of event risk for the US dollar as the index is forecasted to slip further below 50, signaling a contraction in business activity for the second consecutive month. The news could weigh on the US dollar slightly, but as I mentioned yesterday, going forward, the fundamentals on the other side of the coin – such as emerging recessions in the UK, Euro-zone, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan – presents potential for the greenback to recover.

...more...

ECB calls for bids in overnight U.S. dollar tender

http://www.reuters.com/article/usDollarRpt/idUSFAE00251820080930

FRANKFURT, Sept. 30 (Reuters) - The European Central Bank called for bids on Tuesday in its latest overnight tender of U.S. dollar funds, offering banks up to $30 billion.

Bids are due by 0745 GMT and the results will be published shortly after 0945 GMT, the ECB said on one of its Reuters information pages ECB33.

In cooperation with the U.S. Federal Reserve, the ECB has provided euro zone banks with U.S. dollars since last December in return for euro-denominated collateral, in order to relieve money market tensions.

At 0703 GMT, overnight dollars were quoted at a bid-ask spread of 7.0/9.0 percent on Reuters screens, around four times the Fed's target.

...more...

[radfringe]

31. lipstick and MASCARA too!

Regulators Ease Securities-Valuation Rules
By KARA SCANNELL
WSJ: OCTOBER 1, 2008
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122282710053493045.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

WASHINGTON -- The Securities and Exchange Commission and the U.S. accounting-standard setter issued guidance that will allow companies to use more flexibility when valuing securities in a market that has dried up, a move the banking industry hopes will relieve pressure on company balance sheets.

Tuesday, the SEC and Financial Accounting Standards Board issued "clarification" to accounting rules that require companies to value securities at the price for which they can be sold in the market, known as mark-to-market, or fair value, accounting. FASB said it is preparing additional guidance for later this week.

The clarifications allow executives to use their own financial models and judgment if no market exists or if assets are being sold only at fire-sale prices. They were welcomed by banking and financial-services groups that have lobbied the SEC and FASB to change the rules. Those efforts were ramped up in recent days as Congress was drafting a rescue bill.

-----------

Changing the rules on bank accounting, the fix is in
Posted Oct 1st 2008 4:08AM by Douglas McIntyre
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/10/01/changing-the-rules-on-bank-accouting/

--snip--

In cases where there is not a market in a set of securities, banks can be more liberal in using their own financial models to value them.

So, securities that were valued in Q4 2007 may be revalued using a different method in Q4 2008. The new method for setting prices on the paper may increase its value and allow the banks to mark the securities up. That improves their worth and improves year-over-year earnings.

The new plan allows banks to essentially improve their earnings although underlying assets on their balance sheets may not have changed at all.

The whole plan is a smoke screen for the banking industry.

[UpInArms]

32. In early holiday push, Wal-Mart cutting toy prices

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081001/bs_nm/us_walmart_holiday

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc is cutting prices on popular toys and ramping up the opening of Christmas shops in its U.S. stores as the retailer tries to win sales from cash-strapped shoppers ahead of what could be the worst holiday season in 17 years.

Wal-Mart said on Wednesday that it will sell ten toys, including certain Barbie dolls and Tonka trucks, for $10 each. It is also putting its Christmas shops on the "fast track" and intends to open the shops, which sell ornaments and holiday decor, in its stores nationwide by October 10.

Wal-Mart spokeswoman Linda Blakley said its shoppers, who are increasingly living paycheck to paycheck, are indicating that they will start their holiday shopping earlier this year to stretch their limited budgets.

"Given current conditions, some (shoppers) need to spread out their Christmas shopping over a longer time-frame than they may have last year," she said.

Last year, Wal-Mart cut prices on hot toys on September 30 to try to persuade hesitant shoppers to spend on holiday items.

But this year, retailers are bracing for what some economists predict could be the worst Christmas season since 1991, when the nation had only recently emerged from a recession.

...more...

1991? well, let's see . . .

oh right! that was after 12 years of Republican plundering of the economy!

[Virginia Dare]

55. Rack up more debt, send the Chinese more cash!....

yay AMERICA!!!!!

[Wednesdays]

57. That's bullshit PR

You could always get a basic Barbie for less than 10 bucks...sometimes as low as $6.95 on sale.

Now they're trying to sound like they're a bunch of kind-hearted souls by offering Cheap Plastic Crap from China Bimbo for the astoundingly low price of $9.99! :grr:

[54anickel]

77. It's cyclical you silly rabbit. The Repukes have just had the bad luck of being

in charge during the bad business cycles. Those bad cycles would have been even worse had the Democrats been in charge!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Those are the thoughts of my EXTREMELY Republican nephew-in-law. Oh, and did you know that Dubya will be known as the greatest president EVAH!!!!

Still trying to figure out what my niece sees in there!

[Demeter]

112. Look below the Neck

[54anickel]

118. Good Lord, do you suppose there's the chance they'll procreate? ARRGH!!!!

[OakCliffDem]

145. WalMart wants to extract that last gasp of dollars before Credit Cards put the squeeze on

It doesn't take an economics genius to predict strict limits on unsecured debt in the near future

[struggle4progress]

33. Buck up, world leaders tell US

October 1, 2008

Washington - ... The deepening crisis claimed another high-profile European victim, Dexia bank, rescued in a dawn deal by France, Belgium and Luxembourg who provided $9.2bn ...

Ireland, the first eurozone country to fall into recession, promised to guarantee all deposits so as to bolster confidence in the banks and the economy after Dublin stocks plunged 13 percent on Monday ...

Pope Benedict XVI's right-hand man, Vatican Secretary of State Tarcisio Bertone, said that the "tragic outcomes of all political ideologies" were symptomatic of the hunt "solely for short-term profit" ...

http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=&fArticleId=4638386

[CGrantt57]

52. Two pieces of advice.

1. Invest in cookware. At least that way, you'll have a pot to piss in.

2. Bluto: My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.

Regards,

[DemReadingDU]

56. audio Doug Noland

9/27/08 Update on the Current Credit Crisis: Worse Than Expected
http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2008/Noland.html

[54anickel]

58. Thanks! I used to regularly read and post Noland's Credit Bubble Bulletin. It's nice to put a

voice (and face) to it.

[ozymandius]

59. Understanding the Significance of Mark-to-Market Accounting

"Suspending mark-to-market accounting, in essence, suspends reality."
-Beth Brooke, global vice chair, at Ernst & Young

Misinformation, bad dope, and spin seem to be dominating the current discussion on Mark-to-Market accounting. Let's see if we cannot simplify the arcane complexity of the accounting rules regarding FASB 157.

Understand why this is even an issue: Many banks, brokers, and funds chose to invest in certain "financial products" that were difficult to value and were at times thinly traded. If you are looking for the underlying cause of why some arcane accounting rule is an issue, this is it.

....

Suspending FASB 157 amounts to little more than an attempt to hide this broken business model from investors, regulators and the public. Its not just getting through the next few quarters that matters; Rather, its allowing the market place to appropriately reallocate this capital to where it will serve its investors best. That is what free market capitalism is, including Schumpeter's creative destruction.

....

If FASB 157 is suspended, I would advise our clients and the investing public that owning any financials that failed to disclose their holdings accurately were no longer investments -- they were pure speculations, with more in common to spinning a roulette wheel than owning Berkshire Hathaway (BRK) or Apple (AAPL) or Google (GOOG). Indeed, I know of no faster way to end up on the DO NOT OWN list than to hide from your shareholders what is on your books.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/10/mark-to-market.html

[ozymandius]

60. Quick question:

Can you imagine what the Libor rate would be if FASB 157 were suspended? The Ted-spread? Banks do not trust each other right now because no one knows how much of Big Shitpile anyone else owns.

[DemReadingDU]

61. Ted Spread 3.40

Still lots of Fear out there

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=.TEDSP:IND

[ozymandius]

103. Bonddad also says 'this is a bunch of shit'.

Why the Progressive Solution Won't Work

Mark-to-market exists for a very important reasons: it tells us what an institution is worth. The whole argument that some assets are undervalued in a particular environment is true; right now there are some assets that are valued below what you could sell the for in a roaring economy. The question now becomes, what assets would sell at higher prices in a strong economy and which ones wouldn't? The answer is simple: we have no idea. And anyone who tells you they can tell is lying because there is no way to perform that analysis with any degree of accuracy. There area simply too many variables to consider. People have been trying to do that for years. In market parlance, they are called value investors. Most aren't that good.

.....

Right now everybody wants to get rid of mark to market. The SEC just eased the rules. This is like their short-selling ban -- let's prevent the market from working like it should. Now financial institutions will be able to say, "this is really worth more because at some future date it might sell for X." And that's crap. Because that is a complete unknown.

[UpInArms]

62. Commentary: Why voting against the bailout still makes sense

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-voting-against-bailout-still/story.aspx?guid=%7BCF8BDB02%2D793E%2D4AB3%2D9163%2D3B67AC781A98%7D

LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Lost in all the political drama over the $700 billion financial rescue package is the fact that whether or not it passes, there's still going to be a very nasty recession.

U.S spending is flat. Car sales are anemic. The housing market is shot.

Unemployment is rising. And, of course, the entire financial sector is in disarray.
In addition, the U.S. government is $10 trillion in debt, and that doesn't even count the Fannie and Freddie bailouts and debt guarantees to make problem-bank mergers happen.

It gets even worse.

Because the U.S. is clearly headed into a downturn, costs for unemployment insurance payments will be going up and additional costly stimulus programs will undoubtedly be demanded and approved. This will happen even as tax receipts will be going down. And interest payments on the ever-growing U.S. debt will eat up greater and greater chunks of the budget.

Basically, if you're a congressman and you think a $400 billion budget deficit is bad, you probably haven't seen anything yet.

...more...

[InkAddict]

63. It's 9:40 AM - Online banking on a Wednesday - USBank is down?

[InkAddict]

65. It's up now, TG. n/t

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

64. What doesn't fit here?

Perhaps the RBOB price and the situation with gas in the southeast? Just a thought.

CLX08.NYM Crude Oil Nov 08 99.17 8:39am ET Down 1.47 (1.46%)
HOX08.NYM Heating Oil Nov 08 2.8649 8:39am ET Down 0.0298 (1.03%)
NGX08.NYM Natural Gas Nov 08 7.467 8:39am ET Up 0.029 (0.39%)
PNX08.NYM Propane Gas Nov 08 1.44 8:56am ET 0.00 (0.00%)
RBX08.NYM RBOB Gasoline Nov 08 2.4259 8:39am ET Down 0.0318 (1.29%)

[DemReadingDU]

66. Lehman Hedge-Fund Clients Left Cold as Assets Frozen

10/1/08

Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.'s bankruptcy probably means the end of hedge-fund manager Oak Group Inc. after 22 years in business.

John James, who runs the Chicago-based firm with $25 million of assets, didn't buy Lehman stock or debt. Instead, his potentially fatal mistake was to rely on the bank's prime brokerage in London, a unit that provides loans, clears trades and handles administrative chores for hedge funds. He's one of dozens of investment managers whose Lehman prime-brokerage accounts were frozen when the company filed for protection from creditors on Sept. 15.

``We're probably going out of business and liquidate, game over,'' James, 59, said. ``We've lost 70 percent of our assets.''

The list of funds trapped in the Lehman morass keeps growing. London-based MKM Longboat Capital Advisors LLP said last week it will close its $1.5 billion Multi-Strategy fund in part because of assets stuck at Lehman, according to an investor letter.

LibertyView Capital Management Inc. of Hoboken, New Jersey, owned by Lehman's Neuberger Berman unit, told investors on Sept. 26 it had suspended ``until further notice'' attempts to calculate the value of its funds. LibertyView was not included in the Sept. 29 sale of Neuberger to Bain Capital LLC and Hellman & Friedman LLC.

more...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=adjHB.7sfLDA&refer=home

[DemReadingDU]

68. Lehman's `100% Principal Protection' Means Pennies for Notes

9/29/08
A brochure pitching $1.84 million of notes sold by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. in August, a month before the firm filed for bankruptcy, promised ``100 percent principal protection.''

Buyers had ``uncapped appreciation potential'' pegged to gains in the Standard & Poor's 500 Index, the brochure said. In the worst case, they would get back their $1,000-per-note investment in three years. Only the last in a list of 15 risk factors mentioned the biggest danger: ``An investment in the notes will be subject to the credit risk of Lehman Brothers.''

Lehman's Sept. 15 bankruptcy leaves holders of the notes waiting in line with other unsecured creditors for what's left of their money. The collapse has rattled Wall Street's $114 billion structured-notes business, which Lehman, Merrill Lynch & Co., Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., all based in New York, used to raise cheaper funding as the credit crisis drove bond yields higher. About three-fifths of the $68.1 billion sold this year were bought by individual investors, according to data compiled by mtn-i, a London-based firm that tracks the market.

``Investors are going to be a lot more concerned about the credit of the issuers of these notes,'' said James Angel, an associate professor of finance at Georgetown University in Washington. Until recently, ``the buyers may have been mesmerized by the bells and the whistles,'' he said.

The market for structured notes -- constructed by Wall Street firms from a combination of bonds, stocks, commodities, currencies and derivatives -- has mostly avoided fallout from the slump in sales of mortgage-backed collateralized debt obligations and auction-market preferred securities.

more...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aPQXoCH.fIa0&refer=home

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

67. Wake up, kitty.

Kitty?

[Roland99]

75. 10:18am - Markets wrought with peril

Dow 10,667.87 -182.79
Nasdaq 2,062.39 -29.49
S&P 500 1,145.05 -19.69
Oil $99.05 -$1.59
10-year 3.64% -0.18
Gold $881.60 $0.80

[antigop]

78. WSJ: Securities Lending is Being Squeezed

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122282046109792599.html

Public pension funds and other big investors have long squeezed out a few extra bucks by lending stock held in their portfolios -- for a fee -- to short sellers. Now those funds are starting to feel a squeeze of their own.

The collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Washington Mutual Inc. have set off new troubles in the securities-lending business, and the recent freeze in short-term debt markets has only compounded the problem.

That has left a number of big investors -- from the California State Teachers' Retirement System to giant mutual funds -- with at least temporary ...

You need a WSJ subscription for the rest....

[antigop]

80. Krugman: Bailout narratives

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/bailout-narratives/

There seem to be two prevailing narratives about the bailout plan(s). Both have elements of truth, but are fundamentally wrong.

One narrative is that of the Wise Men and the Destructive Yahoos. According to this narrative, men who Understand What Needs to be Done put together a plan to save the world, but they did a bad job of communicating, and a mob of ignorant people stands in their way.

The other narrative is that of the Evil Plotters and the Righteous Uprising. According to this narrative, the same people who sold us the Iraq war have tried to bully Congress into adopting a plan that is, in essence, a cynical ripoff — a scheme to transfer vast wealth to the rich and cripple the next administration.

As I said, there’s some truth to both narratives. Many of those opposing the bailout are indeed destructive yahoos — read some of the speeches during the House debate. And yes, there were Iraq echoes in the way Paulson tried to ram his original plan through.

But both narratives are mostly wrong.

[UpInArms]

81. Fed drains $20 bln of reserves via reverse repo

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSNYD00030020081001

NEW YORK, Oct 1 (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve on Wednesday said that it was draining $20 billion of temporary reserves from the banking system through overnight reverse repurchase agreements.

Federal funds on the open market last traded at 1.00 percent, below the Fed's target for the rate.

[UpInArms]

U.S. jobless rate may climb to 7 pct-Macroeconomic

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSNYE00040920081001

NEW YORK, Oct 1 (Reuters) - The U.S. unemployment rate may increase to 7 percent by the middle of 2009, as poor jobs conditiions are expected to persist for another 9 to 10 months, Macroeconomic Advisers's Chairman Joel Prakken said on Wednesday.

Earlier, the ADP National Employment Report showed U.S. private employers shed their payrolls by 8,000 jobs in September, less than the 60,000 decline forecast among analysts polled by Reuters.

The ADP employment report was jointly developed with Macroeconomic Advisers and ADP Employers Services, a division of Automatic Data Processing Inc.

...more...

[DemReadingDU]

99. It's already 7.4% in Ohio

9/20/08 Ohio's unemployment rate rises By William Hershey
State's joblessness at 7.4 percent, the highest it's been since 1992.

COLUMBUS — Ohio's unemployment rate increased to 7.4 percent in August, the highest jobless rate since October 1992, according to data released Friday, Sept. 19, by the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services.

The August unemployment rate was up slightly from 7.2 percent in July and more than a point higher than the 5.7 percent rate in August 2007.

The U.S. jobless rate for August was 6.1 percent, up from 5.7 percent in July.

"Ohio's labor market continued to mirror the national trend by showing signs of decline in August," Helen Jones-Kelley, ODJFS directors, said.

"Larger decreases in the goods-producing sectors resulted from continued losses in manufacturing and durable goods."

Overall, Ohio's nonfarm wage and salary employed dropped by 3,700 over the month, from 5,410,500 in July to 5,406,800 in August.

The number of unemployed workers in the state in August was 445,000, up from 432,000 in July.

During the past 12 months, the number of unemployed has increased by 106,000, from 339,000.

The unemployment news comes against the backdrop of a gloomy national economy, declining state tax returns and a continuing state budget crisis that saw Gov. Ted Strickland announce $540 million in budget adjustments last week, including $198 million in spending cuts.

more...
http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/09/20/ddn092008jobs.html

[tama]

107. Hmm

What's the employment rate in US? How many of total population and/or of ages 18-65 are employed, self-employed etc. and paying taxes?

[Demeter]

113. 8.9% in Michigan

We're Number 1! We're Number 1!

[DemReadingDU]

132. An Ohio ad

10/1/08 Republicans have controlled the White House for the past eight years. And during that time, reckless Republican policies have undermined Ohios economy and put its workforce and their families in great danger. How bad have these policies been for Ohio?
-1,087 Factories and Companies in Ohio Shut Down
-180,264 Ohio Workers Lost their Jobs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjYutDMDW9E

[antigop]

82. Rescuers still fogbound

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/30/news/rescue.clarity.fortune/index.htm

The feds find more tools for fighting the credit crisis, but what the market wants from Washington is leadership.

Regardless of what happens with the mortgage rescue bill now headed for a vote in the Senate, policymakers haven't run out of tools for hacking away at the edges of the credit crisis.

Unfortunately, it's far from clear that they can be trusted to use their powers wisely, or to any great effect. And if there's any lesson to be learned from the response to the federal interventions of September, it's that the siege mentality in the credit markets won't lift until investors and taxpayers get a sense that Washington is pursuing a grander strategy than writing checks as fast as it can.

"All Washington wants to do is throw money at things," said Robert Lutts, chief investment officer at Cabot Money Management in Salem, Mass. "What we need is for someone to lay out a tangible plan."

[UpInArms]

83. 10:35 EST numbers and blather

Dow 10,675.36 175.30 (1.62%)
Nasdaq 2,060.39 31.49 (1.51%)
S&P 500 1,146.22 20.14 (1.73%)
10-Yr Bond 3.656% 0.171

NYSE Volume 1,142,341,500
Nasdaq Volume 379,595,750

10:05 am : Stocks extend their decline on news that manufacturing contracted by a much larger-than-expected amount in September, according to a national survey.

Just reported, the ISM Manufacturing Index fell 6.4 to 43.5 (consensus 49.5). A reading below 50 is intended to reflect contraction in manufacturing. ISM prices paid, which includes energy and food, but excludes crude oil, fell a sharper-than-expected 23.5 to 53.5 (consensus 73).

Separatedly, August construction spending was unchanged month-over-month, which was better than the expected decline of 0.5%. On average, construction spending has declined 0.3% each month in 2008.

General Electric (GE 23.32, -2.19) is the main laggard within the S&P 500. The stock is getting hammered on no specific news item, although there is concern that the cost to insure GE Capital debt for five years is at 626 basis points, according to Reuters. The cost to protect GE Capital debt traded between 10 and 15 basis points in 2006.DJ30 -173.55 NASDAQ -28.88 SP500 -20.92 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 790/225 mln/1509 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 899/159 mln/1967

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

86. I have an idea

One of the major reasons people are so desperate to get this bailout bill passed is to prevent a credit "crunch," or a drying up of liquidity. So, instead of buying bad assets from institutions and hoping this will improve the balance sheets of these institutions enough to make banks want to lend to the institutions again, why not start some kind of government guarantor program. Basically, encourage banks to lend again by promising that the federal government will act as a guarantor for loans made to "troubled" institutions and firms. Should these loans go bad and the institution no be able to meet it's obligation to pay, the government would step in at that point.

[Roland99]

88. Who's to say institutions won't engage in even riskier arrangements?

Leaving the gov't on hook for it.

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

95. That's true, but

As the guarantor, the government could demand that it have some oversight as well. After all, under the current bailout plan, the government is on the hook for hundreds of billions any way.

Since everybody's going apeshit over the "credit crunch (nobody is lending, OMG!)," we should address the credit issue by, perhaps, offering incentives for banks to continue lending, thereby not limiting the flow of capital. Just seems like this approach of buying bad assets is, well, foolish.

[Roland99]

106. Personally, I think a good porton of the credit crunch is artificial

A bit tinfoil hat-ish but I'm not convnced Wall St isn't forcing the gov't int some form of bailout.

[antigop]

92. Dueling economists: Experts voice support for bailout

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/01/dueling-economists-experts-voice-support-for-bailout-bill/

Last week, a large group of prominent economists sent a letter to lawmakers opposing the Treasury’s plan to purchase troubled assets. Today, a separate group of economists have come out in support of the plan. Full text of the letter follows:

To the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate:

As economists, we write to support the plan before Congress dealing with the financial crisis. We are well aware that the proposed intervention entails very large sums and considerable risk for American taxpayers, albeit upside as well as downside risk.

Ours is a mixed, private-public economic system. Even in normal times, our government is heavily involved in the economy and holds a considerable claim on the private sector via the tax system. That said, none of us would counsel government arrangements of the proposed type in normal times. Today’s situation is far from normal. Nor, unfortunately, is it unprecedented.

Our country has weathered significant financial crises over the years. It will weather this one as well. The main lesson learned from prior crises is that timely and aggressive government intervention can restore confidence and galvanize the private sector to take mutually reinforcing and economically beneficial actions. This ability of the government to set the economy on a healthy path makes the proposed intervention much less risky than would otherwise seem to be the case.

We call upon all members of Congress to support this important legislation knowing full well that doing so is neither easy nor guaranteed of success. *

Signatures

[TalkingDog]

100. 10 things that will change: Kiplinger's

When the smoke clears on the current financial and legislative turmoil -- the economic landscape will look considerably different than it did just a few months ago. Here's what we see ahead:

http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/Ten_Things_That_Will_Be_Different_When_the_Financial_Smoke_Clears_080926.html

[antigop]

102. Vatican newspaper says crisis shows failure of 'new economy'

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0804856.htm

The current financial crisis pummeling the United States and beyond is a sign that the so-called "new economy" and its risky investments have failed, the Vatican newspaper said.

The booming growth of financial markets did not correspond to real growth or concrete development for society because it created an artificially robust gross national product, said a Sept. 24 article in L'Osservatore Romano.

The only real growth registered in this crisis has been "the commissions, profits of the banks and bonuses for the managers," it said.

The article, with the headline "A costly illusion," was written by Ettore Gotti Tedeschi, an Italian economist and professor of financial ethics at the Catholic University of the Sacred Heart in Milan, Italy.

The U.S. financial meltdown has been blamed on "the greed of managers and lack of regulations. But curiously, no one ever refers to the indirect responsibility of the government's economic policy" which, he wrote, tried to cover the lack of any real economic development with a booming Wall Street.

Full disclosure (so as not to be accused of Catholic-bashing): I was raised Catholic. While I am glad to see this admission from the Vatican, the cynic in me asks:
1) Where in the hell has the Church been? Oh, yeah, preaching about the evils of abortion, while the economy crashed and burned.
2) How much has the Church lost on its investments?

:cynicism off:

[happyslug]

117. This is a report of a report in the Vatican Newspaper

Your local Catholic Church may have been concentrating on Abortion, and it is a high priority in the Vatican, but it is NOT the only priority. For details go to the Vatican Web site:

English version:
http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm
For other languages:
http://www.vatican.va/

On the Catechism and Code of Canon Law:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/index.htm

Vatican II Documents (all considered Valid):
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm

Pope Benedict's Speeches:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/september/index_en.htm
Prior Years:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/index_en.htm
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/index_en.htm
Other Documents of this Pope
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/index_en.htm
Of previous Popes (Mostly the last two, but some records from other Popes over the last 100 years, prior to John Paul II, mostly letters in Italian):
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/index.htm


The Newspaper in Question (the L'Osservatore Romano):
http://www.vatican.va/news_services/or/home_eng.html

The article mentioned does NOT seem to appear in the October 1, 2008 English Edition. It may appear in an earlier edition or just NOT entered in the on line edition. I do not know, but my point is the Church has a long list items BESIDE Abortion, even through Abortion seems to be the big issue in the US.

It is a good place to get first hand information from the Vatican but at times difficult to work through. To much and to little, a problem with a lot a Web pages.

[antigop]

123. yep---familiar with all of those. Nothing new to me. Thanks anyway. n/t

[antigop]

105. The lowdown on you and the FDIC proposal

http://blogs.wsj.com/wallet/2008/10/01/the-lowdown-on-you-and-the-fdic-proposal/

The problem is that raising the limits would require the FDIC to ask the struggling banking industry to hand over more cash to fund the insurance. Also on the table is having those costs to the banks waived and have the Treasury Department step in. (Consumers: This could mean either a hike in taxes, more fees from banks, or both.)

[Roland99]

108. Whoa. DJIA just shot up like a rocket what gives?

[Dr.Phool]

114. Looks like it's shooting back down just as fast.

75 pt downswing in maybe 2 minutes.

??????????????????????????????????????

[Roland99]

119. Did that coincide with news of G.E. selling $15 billion of new stock?

[Dr.Phool]

125. Warren Buffett invests $3 Billion in GE.

MSNBC News Services
updated 47 minutes ago

FAIRFIELD, Conn. - Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway is buying $3 billion worth of General Electric preferred shares, even as the diversified conglomerate is preparing to sell at least $12 billion worth of common stock to the public.

GE says Berkshire Hathaway Inc. will buy $3 billion of perpetual preferred stock in a private offering. Such stock carries a dividend of 10 percent and is callable, at a 10 percent premium, after three years. Berkshire also received warrants to buy $3 billion worth of common shares at $22.25 each over five years. GE says that the Berkshire funds will boost its capital position and permit it to make opportunistic investments if they arise.

"The economic environment remains volatile," said GE chairman and chief executive Jeff Immelt in a statement. "However, the company's performance remains on track with the earnings guidance we provided last week for 2008."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26976416/

[uppityperson]

115. Question about the 80 pt ups and downs.

Are they because people are selling a bunch, then buying back when the price drops? Friend of MrUP did this, sold at a point, watched for it to drop a little, bought back, slight up, sold, slight drop, bought.

[Robbien]

126. Wonder if the massive amounts of hedge fund redemptions have something to do with it

Today, the first day of the new quarter, is the last day investors can take their money out before having to wait another 90 days.

It could be very jumpy if hundreds of hedge funds are all trying to unwind their positions at the same time

[Roland99]

129. If so, that will be the dam breaking

False confidence from a bailout will be washed away.

[Robbien]

131. Speaking of hedges

The WSJ today is reporting that while the majority of hedges have been hit hard this last quarter, one hedge fund stands out far above the rest. It had a net return of 19.44% for the year to the end of August.

That fund, Paulson Advantage Plus fund.

[Demeter]

116. I Was Wondering if the Piehole Went Off at 11 AM this Morning?

Or alternatively, who got goosed?

[DemReadingDU]

120. Abbot and Costello - "Find the Submarine"

a little humor for today


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DyNnlIDqfc

[Dr.Phool]

124. So much for ADS jobs numbers. X-post from LBN

Thanks to a find from Purveyor.

Source: CNN Money

October 1, 2008: 10:57 AM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Job losses have been mounting, and the slowing economy and credit crunch is likely to take an even greater toll in the coming months.

<b>Analysts on average forecast that the monthly employment report expected Friday will reveal that the economy shed 105,000 jobs in September - the largest monthly loss in five years. The economy already has lost 605,000 jobs this year.</b>

Unemployment is expected to remain at a relatively high 6.1%.

What's more troubling is that hiring trends have deteriorated even further in recent weeks - and that won't be reflected in government statistics until later this year.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3521015

[tama]

128. Bailout, what's really going on

Many European banks are bigger than their country of origin, meaning too big to save because ECB is not a bank of last resort. Federal reserve, on the other hand, is a bank of last resort.

On the other hand, US is dependent on foreigners financing their ballooning debt. So this deal is panicky agreement between US and EU financial and political elites of mutual back-scratching, even if for few more days or weeks or months before the whole house of cards falls down: US/Fed buys the crow that Wall Street has been selling to foreign banks, other central banks keep on supporting dollar and doing what they can to keep US debt balloon financed.

[Roland99]

133. At the close - Early gnashing of teeth gives way to small *sighs*

Dow 10,831.07 -19.59
Nasdaq 2,069.40 -22.48
S&P 500 1,161.06 -3.68
Oil $98.53 -$2.11
10-year 3.77% -0.06
Gold $888.00 $7.20

[antigop]

136. So Buffett gets another preferred stock deal, with a 10% dividend?

Aren't those the terms he got with Goldman Sachs?

Why aren't we, as taxpayers, demanding something similar?

[dweller]

138. i just heard on Randi Rhodes about the bailout vote tonite

to be held 'at sundown' ... is it just me or is this starting to have an OK Corral feel about it?

House to vote tomorrow also 'at sundown'.

dp

[54anickel]

144. Sundown ya better take care, If I find you been creepin round my back stairs

Shes been lookin like a queen in a sailors dream
And she dont always say what she really means
Sometimes I think its a shame
When I get feelin better when Im feelin no pain
Sometimes I think its a shame
When I get feelin better when Im feelin no pain


Futures aren't too happy about something tonight....

http://money.cnn.com/data/afterhours/index.html

[UpInArms]

140. Every One is a Loser: TABLE - Auto industry U.S. Sept results by auto groups

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0152533820081001

CHICAGO, Oct 1 (Reuters) - Following are U.S. sales and market shares of
cars and light trucks listed by auto groups and their wholly owned subsidiaries
for September versus the same year-earlier month and for the year-to-date.
Percent changes are based on the daily sales rate.

 Makers        Sept 2008 % Chng   Share  Yr Volume % Chng Share
 ------         -------- ------   -----  --------- ------ -----
 GM-Group        284,571  -12.1   29.6  2,430,028  -17.9   22.7
  Traditional    282,806  -12.1   29.4  2,412,666  -17.8   22.5
  Saab             1,765  -24.2    0.2     17,362  -32.4    0.2
 ----------
 Ford-Group      120,410  -31.8   12.5  1,588,415  -17.5   14.8

  Traditional    116,356  -30.9   12.1  1,528,387  -17.1   14.3
  Volvo            4,054  -49.8    0.4     60,028  -25.8    0.6

 ----------
 Chrysler LLC    107,349  -30.0   11.2  1,183,519  -25.0   11.0

 ----------
 VW-Group         24,693   -4.4    2.6    241,184   -1.0    2.2
  Traditional     17,109   -5.7    1.8    175,367    0.2    1.6
  Audi             7,584   -1.5    0.8     65,817   -3.9    0.6

 ----------
 Hyundai-Grp      42,148  -23.4    4.4    565,752   -4.2    5.3
  Hyundai         24,765  -22.3    2.6    337,664   -5.8    3.1
  Kia             17,383  -24.8    1.8    228,088   -1.7    2.1

 ----------
 Other Firms     362,792  -30.8   37.8  4,534,916   -6.3   42.3
  Toyota         144,260  -29.5   15.0  1,793,303  -10.4   16.7
  Honda           96,626  -20.9   10.1  1,180,583   -1.1   11.0
  Nissan          59,565  -34.2    6.2    785,698   -3.4    7.3
  Mitsubishi       7,378  -36.5    0.8     80,105  -24.3    0.7
  Mazda           16,169  -32.9    1.7    215,408   -5.7    2.0
  Mercedes        18,779  -12.9    2.0    177,298   -1.6    1.7
  BMW             18,506  -22.7    1.9    236,327   -4.8    2.2
  Subaru          14,491   -8.3    1.5    143,789    3.7    1.3
  Isuzu              258  -52.4    0.0      4,189  -24.3    0.0
  Suzuki           4,081  -44.0    0.4     74,438   -7.6    0.7
  Porsche          1,458  -42.5    0.2     21,076  -19.8    0.2
  Total          960,742  -23.7  100.0 10,721,112  -13.0  100.0
---------------------------------------------------------------

[Demeter]

142. Those Market Results Are Not Credible

Looking at those graphs, how could anyone claim it's a "free market"? Absent a major terrorist attack, or assassination, free markets don't track like that.