Combat Brigade Ready for US Operations

[unhappycamper]

Source: military.com / The Gazette

Combat Brigade Ready for US Operations
October 09, 2008
The Gazette, Colorado Springs,Colo.

If U.S. Northern Command needs troops to respond to a national emergency, commanders now have 4,000 Soldiers on alert to answer the call.

Northern Command at Peterson Air Force Base, Colo., which was created after the Sept. 11 attacks to coordinate the military response to everything from the aftermath of hurricanes to nuclear fallout, has relied primarily on part-time National Guard troops.

That changed last week with the Army announcing full combat brigade will be on alert for the next year, ready to roll out nationwide.

Despite conspiracy theories that this could be a first step toward martial law in the U.S., there won't be tanks on Main Street or active-duty troops putting down demonstrations. That is barred by federal law banning the military from being used on U.S. soil for domestic law enforcement.


Read more: http://www.military.com/news/article/combat-brigade-ready-for-us-operations.html

[Homer Wells]

1. I call BS!!!!

Federal law has not gotten in the way one whit when it comes to this Regime!!!!!

:grr: :grr: :nuke: :scared:

[fascisthunter]

2. Welcome to a Fascist Police State... brought to you by Bush and his GOP

[Doctor_J]

3. I think * revoked Posse Comitatus during a particularly gripping episode of American Idol

So the only people who noticed were those who like living in a police state, like Dana Milbank and others in Big Media.

[dgibby]

8. It was reinstated by Congress: however,

Bush accompanied it with one of his infamous signing statements, and of course, the law never stopped him before, so it's a moot point.

[SpiralHawk]

4. "Round up the Americans." - Republicon Homelanders

"We've had it with this U.S. Constitution crap."

- Republicon Homelanders

[Javaman]

5. When the election gets thrown again, you will see why they are here. nt

[Nambe]

6. Fill the moat and powder the cannons.

Viva la Revolucion!

[eagertolearn]

15. 4,000 won't be enough to hold us all back if this is the case! n/t

[Javaman]

23. won't take more than that.

all it takes is one incident to show they mean business and everyone will fall in line.

[shanti]

52. and don't forget

they have their "secret" weapon in the wings, according to bob woodward...

resistance is futile! ;)

[tuckessee]

28. There's plenty more where they came from.

Plus local police, county deputies, State Police, Federal Marshalls, jail guards, constables, contractors, deputized gov't workers, etc.

They have been cooperating for over eight years with the military for just such a purpose. .

Harbor no illusions, the organized military/security apparatus would crush any rising by the unorganized masses as easily as stomping on an empty can of PBR.

[eagertolearn]

35. Now that you say that, all the cops around here are repugs.

Is that the norm in most places? I guess people will do anything in the name of religion/ racism.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

90. Actually, at least 13,500 troops...from CCMRF alone

These operations involve all branches of the military, plus local law enforcement, and who knows what else - probably Blackwater.

1st Brigade 3rd Infantry is only part of CCMRF.
CCMRF "Sea-Smurf" = Consequence Management Response Force

From the Air Force Times:
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/06/airforce_ccmr ... /
Beginning in October (2008), a federal military response will be available for the worst disasters....Three CCMRFs, each with about 4,500 troops from all branches, are in the making.

They have been trained as part of National Level Exercise 2-08, which involved a variety of local, state and federal disaster response agencies...The training was successful in terms of proving the units’ capabilities, Cunniff said, and was an early step toward the kind of CCMRF training NorthCom leadership envisions. That training will start with individuals perfecting their “basic warrior skills,” *such as wearing and maintaining protective gear* :eyes: , Cunniff said.

“We envision that could be regionally based,” Cunniff said, perhaps one on each coast and one in the middle.

This found on another site:
Three brigades form the core of the force: the 1st Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart; the 1st Medical Brigade, Fort Hood, Texas; and the 82nd Combat Aviation Brigade, Fort Bragg, N.C.

The response force will be assigned on Oct. 1 to U.S. Northern Command, Peterson Air Force Base, Colo., and placed under the operational control of U.S. Army North, Fort Sam Houston, Texas.

This week, Col. Lou Vogler, U.S. Army North's chief of future operations, and Marine Corps Lt. Col. James Shores, director of plans and policy for Joint Task Force Civil Support, participated in a round table interview with online journalists to discuss the force, including its unique mission and training.

"U.S. Army North is the Army component of U.S. Northern Command," said Vogler, "and we're charged with coordinating the federal military response in the land domain for domestic operations or disasters, to include CBRNE."

[bdab1973]

39. I'll take a bet on that...and I bet you're wrong

I'm in the military...those that serve, the vast majority are professional people who understand their purpose. We all took oaths and most of us take that oath seriously.

We are NOT in the business of supporting any political party or individual person. We do not take up arms against our own people to help "thrown elections". There may be election fraud issues come November, but I guarantee you that the US military is going to stay out of it. After all, WE ARE CITIZENS TOO! I don't belong to some "other" entity, I am an American.

Bottom line: The NORTHCOM troops exist for natural disasters (ie, Katrina) and emergencies such as a 9/11-style attack (security for first responders, etc). They don't exist to suppress everyday Americans from voting, or "round up Americans" for political motivations. A significant number of my family are Obama supporters, and while I don't really get into everyone else's political leanings, these conspiracy theories would have me "rounding up" most of my family...NOT GONNA HAPPEN. I think if you asked people throughout the military if they would serve in a capacity that would prop up one political party over the other, and arrest everyday citizens on political grounds, the answer would be a resounding NO. That goes from the lowest Private/Airman/Sailor up through the officer corps.

[llmart]

61. Then where were they during Katrina?

n/t

[bdab1973]

62. They were there

My squadron alone sent 3-4 airplanes and crews to evacuate people from the airport...nearly every active duty HH-60 squadron sent helicopters and crews to New Orleans to help...the other active-duty C-130 squadrons also sent aircraft and crews...aeromedical evac squadrons had people down there. The active-duty Army also sent aircraft, medical teams and other support units.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

92. Do you know which "security" forces fired on the civilians?

Any ideas?

[NoSheep]

93. The one you asked never answers when the going gets real.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

95. I was hoping he'd answer ...

and tell me it was Blackwater - in part because I hoped it wasn't our own troops.

[bdab1973]

97. There were a lot of parts and pieces to the Katrina response

I was particularly in the know about the airlift effort, because that's my background. I had heard that the Guard troops had exchanged a few shots with looters, but that's about all I had heard through the rumor mill.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

99. thanks for your response

I am glad you are here! Your perspective is important and interesting.

[lonestarnot]

66. And since I think you are right, I am not concerned about this brigade, but the private bunch are

another matter.

[shadowknows69]

7. BS the original missions statement from the DOD said they'd be used for crowd control

[readmoreoften]

47. It's such bullshit. How dare they call "conspiracy theory" what they said OUTRIGHT last week.

The good news is: we're putting them on the run a bit.

[kickysnana]

9. Xpost ANTHRAX-Emergency Declared Oct 1st

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4195810

[kickysnana]

11. Xpost Interview - Naomi Wolf - Give Me Liberty "The Coup is complete"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=207570

[kickysnana]

12. Xpost Rummy invented a "new"[military] oath to be repeated by soldiers everywhere many times a day

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4193553&mesg_id=4195019

[bowens43]

10. "barred by federal law"

as if this matters when a republican is in the oval office.......

[Ignis]

34. That's exactly what I was thinking!

"That is barred by federal law" ... and this has stopped Bush when exactly?

[L0oniX]

13. V ...doesn't work

Oh yea ..and remember what these patriotic American troops always say ..."we're protecting your freedoms and democracy" and now these patriotic troops are going to -murder- us when we resist and fight against the rich bastards who have stolen our government and country. Still support the troops? Remember Kent State? Think it won't happen again? Buy your guns now while you can because the next war is going be right here in America and it will start when American troops start killing Americans???

[dkofos]

14. Noble mission MY ASS.

[FirstLight]

16. Has ANYONE covered this???

Why are we not hearing this on KO or Rachel at least? WTF?

Who else ? Will Madame Speaker give a shit? What sucks is that Obama could easily win, but there are still months to go before January, don't think they will let him just walk into the White House. Unless the bonfires we see are the burning of evidence...

[bdamomma]

20. this should be publicized by either us to our Congress people

I think they fully well know something is up and they do not want us to panic, to late we already know.

and if Representative Sherman is saying that they were bullied into signing the bailout bill by an outset of martial law being implemented in the country, I think we have the evidence to go along with that, and also Representative DeFazio who never got an answer regarding Continuity of Government or the NS PD 51. All these things are underlying issues that must be addressed.

[PaDUer]

57. This must be the article

I read re congress about 1 1/2mos ago that was to be discussed and congress did not have the heart to discuss it due to the seriousness of it because they had to come to terms w/ it...yes, they do know....and you can bet that some of them will be protected and others won't..

Wouldn't surprise me that's why passports were being featured in our local papers DAILY for a week or so. Look at how many people have left this country and living elsewhere..

Calling these sophisticated troops here isn't for crowd control, IMO.

[paparush]

17. We used to be Citizens. Now we are Suspects.

[bdab1973]

38. Not the intention...

I'm in the military and this is supposed to be for natural disasters, etc. It's not designed to "round up Americans".

Geez people, why don't you give the officers and leadership of the US military a little credit...I swore an oath to defend this country, NOT arrest people for political reasons.

[paparush]

40. Ok..then why not bring home more National Guard Units? Why an Army brigade?

Help me understand the reasoning?

Why not bring more volunteer soldiers, than full time, active duty soldiers to do a job they aren't particularly trained to do. Not saying they can't be trained. Not saying they can't be effective. Months of fully armored, urban combat patrols doesn't seem to be the appropriate kind of preparation for the mission they are to fulfill here at home.

Isn't natural disaster response, and "civil unrest" the purvey of the National Guard? Isn't that what the N.G. was created for?

[bdab1973]

41. Short answer to your question about the Guard: NO

The National Guard's primary mission, despite what you might think, is NOT simply to clean up after natural disasters. The primary mission of the National Guard is to provide a reserve force for the regular active-duty military. The National Guard has existed in some form or another since the beginning of the US, however it has evolved over time. The Militia Act of 1903 formed the basis of the Guard as we know it today. This act made the state militias a fully functioning reserve of the federal military.

Since it is officially a reserve of the active military, the National Guard's #1 mission is to provide reserve combat capability...not disaster relief capability, not crowd control capability, but combat capability. In the past 20 years, other acts have further clarified the role of the National Guard versus the Federal Reserves. The Reserves (ie, Army Reserve, Air Force Reserve, etc) focuses on combat service support, such as medical and clerical units. The National Guard's focus became combat and combat support, ie infantry, armor and aviation. These National Guard units are not stand-alone units...they belong to larger active components. When I flew for the Louisiana Army National Guard, our unit had state administrative control during peacetime. If our unit was activated, we would belong operationally to the 3rd US Army. It's that way for the ANG as well.

Seriously, did you think that the National Guard's primary mission was natural disaster clean-up? If so, they why did the LAARNG operate the 256th Infantry, complete with M2/M3 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, and M1 tanks? Why did the LAANG operate the 159th Fighter Wing with F-15s? To help people during a hurricane? NO. Those missions are additional duties, and during peacetime when the Guard's operational control is governed by the state, those missions ARE the primary missions since individual states don't have the legal constitutional capability to wage war on their own.

As far as your question regarding "why an Army brigade", it's for speed of response. IF we suffered another natural disaster like Katrina, or a 9/11-style attack, the active-duty unit is available 24/7 without any legal red tape in the way of their use. The Guard, unless they are federalized, can't be called up so quickly. States can volunteer their units, or the Federal government can activate them if needed, but all that takes time. In the event of an emergency, active units can respond within hours, not days. Calling on a Guard unit to respond to a disaster takes time...each member of those units has a civilian job, and may live hours from the unit....it takes time to call everyone in and get them activated.

Just FYI, I am active-duty now, I made the switch about 9 years ago. And whether you know it or not, the active units have played an important role in recent disasters. Katrina? Most of the search and rescue operations, and air evacuations were done with active duty assets and personnel. The Guard played a role, but if you remember it took them a few days to respond...my squadron had C-130s on the ramp of New Orleans international the NEXT DAY after the disaster occurred, and we started flying supplies in and patients and refugees out immediately. This latest Hurricane my squadron had crews and airplanes ready to go, and they did fly relief flights carrying supplies for FEMA as soon as the weather improved.

This notion that only the Guard responds to disasters, and that it's the only mission the Guard serves short of full scale war is a myth. Do some research and you'll see that the Guard and Reserves are both integrated into the active-duty structure, it's often referred to as Total Force. For example, the Guard even does full-time training of active-duty aircrews, like they do at the base I am at. I think your idea of the Guard is stuck in 1965.

[sarcasmo]

55. Go to youtube and look up Fema Camps and Blackater and then say "Geez people"

[PaDUer]

58. You say natural disasters..

ok, tell us about the natural disaster that will take place then..Thanks!

[bdab1973]

63. Fine, love the condescending "I know more than you do" attitude

During Katrina, my airlift group (active duty C-130s) sent several aircraft to New Orleans to help evacuate patients and refugees. After Ike, my current squadron sent people to Texas to assist. The active duty Army, Navy and Air Force all sent aircraft, medical teams and other support units to Louisiana after Katrina. This Army brigade is there to give us a manpower pool during events like this without having to do the usual cobbling of personnel from here, there and everywhere.

[EFerrari]

70. Maybe because we've seen too many of them lying their asses off

during Congressional hearings about everythig from fragging to torture, from bad water for our guys to no bid contracts? :shrug:

I hope we see the day when the leadership of the military deserves our respect again.

[bdab1973]

74. I am one of the military's leadership

So thanks for your insult.

[EFerrari]

79. Then I wish you better company than you've had in the last 8 years.

I really do.

I'll never forget Taguba's face while that panel lied their asses off about TORTURE. He looked like he'd hurl if he could.

I'll never forget Rumsfeld looking into the camera and saying "Digital cameras" and later, putting up "no photography" on signs at Abu Graib prison as if the images and not the acts were the problem. Or Rumsfeld saying "These are the worst of the worst" about the bakers and religious tourists and teenagers and shephards and grandfathers that they collected for their perp walk into Gitmo. People who have now been released and who hopefully will be able to sue the crap out of these assholes for stealing years of their lives.

If you can't deal with that reality, I'm so sorry. But those things happened. Just like Jessica Lynch almost died while DOD was getting their camera crew together and just like Pat Tillman's mom was lied to, is still being lied to.

You have a choice. You can continue to defend these men that have disrespected and defiled your service or you can choose to look for a solution to what they did.

[bdab1973]

80. I would take serving with the fellow officers I work with now

over working with you any day. I don't tolerate know-it-all fools that don't have much of a grasp of what they are talking about.

The people you speak of...Rummy, et al...those are politicians. They are a whole other animal altogether. Even the general officers...they are a hybrid...half military officer, half politician. I have met some really bad generals, and I have met some outstanding ones. That being said, you have an organization of one million people, you're liable to run across a few retards. But having worked in the civil sector AND the military, I take the military, hands down. The civilian workforce, from what I've seen, is full of people that only give two shits about what's in it for them.

[EFerrari]

81. And apparently the military is "full of" people who insult strangers

without addressing the issues.

Rationalize it as you will. We have a problem in the military. My grandfather was a general officer, thanks. My dad was a sailor. I don't think either of them would take kindly to your attitude or your language -- but they would be wrong. :)

There is no doubt that our military has been corrupted during the Bush years. All you have to do is dial up any of the Congressional hearings at CSPAN and listen to them spin or think about the no-win missions our people have been tasked with. While they are under supplied and tossed aside once they get home.

If being informed = know it all to you, that's cool. But leadership has to stand up in their boots or, it's not leadership, is it?

[bdab1973]

89. So I'm supposed to take general insults to my profession and thank you for it?

Sorry to disappoint you. I'm not going to jump in line with you there and go on and on about how officers in the military are "corrupted" by the current administration. Many of the officers that serve entered service when Clinton was in office (myself included).

I'm very glad your family has military vets...so does mine, and it goes back far (Revolutionary War). But my parent's, grandparent's and great grandparent's service no better qualifies me to speak about the officer corps than your family experience. So let's not start carting out the "my daddy was an officer, and my granddaddy too"...fine. But you're missing something...what experience do YOU have besides watching CSPAN to give you any educated stances on military leadership and military officers? I'm tired of clowns sticking a finger in my face telling me I'm naive and uneducated about my own profession while they crow about how knowledgeable they are because they read Time magazine or watched CNN...and as always, when I call them out on it, they go with the "my daddy was a...". Whatever.

[YankmeCrankme]

98. I can tell by your posts you're a jerk.

Your ability to read disqualifies you for a leadership role. If you reread her post you would see that she was talking about top leadership, those are the guys/gals that give testimony before Congress and, yes, they lied through their collective teeth.

Yeah, go ahead and tell me I don't know anything because I'm a stupid civilian, blah, blah, blah. You don't know anything about my experience and I'm not going to tell you either. I'll just let you think you're some sort of expert over me because you state in your posts you have "military leadership experience". Yeah, whatever.

I wouldn't want to serve under you for anything.

The military is a tool, and like any tool it can be used as a force for good or bad as history has demonstrated. The fact that you're in it doesn't make it a force for good. Get over yourself.

[Ferret Annica]

100. As someone drummed out of the military for being gay

screw your generals and other assorted bigots, God botherers and willing Iraqi civilian killers and torturers. They will just blindly follow any dumb or criminal NeoCon orders.

And if this brigade is ever used for martial law enforcement, let their doctrine and training come right back at them. If they want to play Red Coat, I know how to play Minuteman. So do allot of other combat arms vets.

AIRBORNE!

[bdab1973]

101. Funny..

that you would say that considering you don't know me or my positions. I am actually FOR removing the restrictions placed on gays in the military. We had an E-5 that worked in our office and she was a lesbian, but none of us cared...there was no need to care because she did her job as well or better than everyone else. There is significant resistance within the military to gay rights, but I also think that trend isn't too much different than the US as a whole.

Back to the original subject...you attack certain people that are in the military as blind servants, yet you chant "Airborne" at the bottom of your post. You must think you're special and only you have a brain and a dedication to serving our nation, while the rest of us are stupid robots. Come on! That's ridiculous. Certainly there are a few that are way too gung-ho, but the vast majority in uniform would never raise a rifle to fellow Americans without cause (by cause, I mean if a guy is a real domestic terrorist trying to kill people or in self-defense). Shooting people because they have different political views isn't a cause and I think the vast majority of those in uniform, officer or not, understands that concept.

I always tell the story of a friend of mine who's a huge Repub fan, and yet when Trent Lott arrived at the airport we were at and tried to get him to pose in a photo with campaign stickers, he declined...why? Because it would have been a conflict of interest to be in uniform, standing in a photo with a politician wearing campaign stickers. He was professional enough to make that decision. Give these people the benefit of the doubt...you would want it, wouldn't you?

[yellerpup]

18. 4,000 soldiers vs. 300,000,000 citizens

That's 80 troops per state. Do you really think our war-weary troops who are sick of killing people over in Iraq are coming home to mow down their moms & dads & cousins, et. al.? Even if every one of them had a tank, do you really think these people would turn against American voters on Chimpy's say so? Even Blackwater wouldn't buy into that. They know we're broke as well as we do! Get a grip.

[yardwork]

21. It doesn't take much to stop public protests. It doesn't take much to scare most people.

They don't need to take it to the level of hand-to-hand fighting in the streets. Eighty troops carrying military-issue weapons, marching in formation in full combat gear, is quite sufficient to frighten most people into submission.

I saw six federal troops marching on the beach in Mexico on Christmas day in the early 1970s. They had their intended effect.

[yellerpup]

33. Yes, I know what you mean.

I saw three Federales with assault weapons on a beach in Acapulco in 1983. Turned my stomach. Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I just don't see our own troops burning down America and killing fellow citizens for having an opposing political opinion. That's not what we are taught from cradle to grave in America. Can I imagine that things could go horribly wrong? I could, but I refuse to visualize it. And, I will work until my dying breath to create a world of peace and freedom, and I will do so without fear.

[ohio2007]

65. Well, doesn't take much to stop a weak " sheeple" protest.

I doubt fourth amendment following rednecks could be called sheeple.


?

lol

You saw an event on a Mexican beach 40 years ago ?

Were they battling drug cartel amphibious landing

or

controlling a population of spring break gringo's ?

[Doctor_J]

26. Many of the 20% who think Smirk is doing great will be on the fascist side

But we'll still have a huge numerical advantage

[yellerpup]

32. We know what we will be fighting against.

Will our military continue to fight for an undefined goal? I know Americans have fought Americans during the Civil War, but what will our children be told they are fighting for? They are our children. I think better of them and believe that they can reason. The military is donating 6-1 for Obama. That doesn't sound like unreasoning robots who will follow any despot who gives them an order to the gates of hell to me.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. OK, a quarter of those 300,000,000 are children. Another quarter

would gladly embrace a fascist takeover. You give a unit orders to keep the peace, and they will follow orders. Give them orders to break up a demonstration, and they will continue to follow orders. If a hothead takes a shot at them during the demonstration, they are suddenly seeing the demonstrators as "the enemy" - they are, after all, combat troops just back from the field - and they WILL respond with lethal force. Remember Kent State? Those troops weren't back from Vietnam - they'd just spent weeks dealing with a truckers' strike where they were regularly shot at and THEY responded as a military is trained to do. You think real combat troops would do less? And once it becomes "us or them" all bets are off. 200 troops, equipped with military vehicles and the latest non-lethal weaponry (the 'heat ray' they've been experimenting with, for example) to 20 different cities, which would of course just be a start, could have a HUGE impact.

No, they won't march out tomorrow to gun down civilians. But put them under enough pressure long enough, and convince them that it is their duty and they will do their duty - given time. It also helps if the troops are deployed to 'enemy territory' - send Southern troops to the Northeast, mid-western troops to San Diego, yankee troops to Alabama. Then limit their opportunity for non-filtered news, so all they know is what they're being told.

They will do just as they are told. It is what they are trained to do.

[yellerpup]

31. I think real combat troops might be fed up with following orders

without a mission. I know the training is intense and ingrained and I know it is easy to intimidate civilians with a show of force. Yes, I remember Kent State and I remember that after the students were killed the protests didn't stop, but the National Guard was not sent out against us again. I don't believe that Chimpy is such a charismatic leader that the military will attack anyone and everyone at Home because he wants to stay in power. Of course you could be completely right and I could be completely wrong. Once American troops (who have been in the Middle East fighting for Democracy) get back to the USA and find out that their freedoms have been stripped away here while they were over there, and once they have access to information again--I don't think the news filter could be that strong here--they will surely not fight against freedom.

[readmoreoften]

48. They'll go to prison for refusing orders.

[bdab1973]

78. Really? Is this from your extensive service...

In the US military? I can guarantee you that NO officer in the US military that I know of (to include myself) would order or back up an order to illegally arrest, detain or fire upon the citizens of this nation. We're a little more professional than what you suggest...that we're somehow a roving band of retarded kids that nod yes on anybody's whim.

[EFerrari]

82. But Uncle Sam's retarded children have been used to intimidate

for years and years.

I was ten when my mom and I went to a peaceful protest right here on this beach on the occasion of the felon Nixon's second inaugural. And we got buzzed the entire time by the Marines in helicopters.

You are full of it or you are incredibly naive. To know you may be an officer should just scare the cR2p out of anyone reading this thread.

[bdab1973]

86. 17 years...

of service and I've never gone around "intimidating" anyone.

[Thothmes]

94. Believe the fired on the Veterans demanding their

bonuses in the early 30s.

[Crowman1979]

96. Lest we forget the G.I. resistance during the Vietnam war.

Here is what happen when soldiers were told they would have to supress the protests in chicago in 68'.

starts at the 7:00 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRmXKx-LT9o

[dysfunctional press]

42. those 4000 soldiers are NOT going to support any type of dictatorial moves in the u.s.

stop being so fucking paranoid- they are not mindless automatons.

[yellerpup]

44. I don't think you meant to reply to me. We are in total agreement.

:hi:

[Algorem]

45. they went to Iraq,no problem

[dysfunctional press]

46. ???

you lost me...:shrug:

[readmoreoften]

49. No, they'll just face prison sentences if they refuse orders.

They're not mindless automatons. They're stuck. What part of "police already torturing, hooding, and sexually assaulting protesters" don't you get? If you think the military under executive control will be better than SWAT teams or the National Guard--who are bad enough thanks--then maybe you ought to stop being so "fucking willfully ignorant."

[dysfunctional press]

53. they are not bound to follow illegal orders.

the majority of the soldiers would not be complicit in such actions, despite what the raving paranoics want to think.

the u.s. military and blackwater combined could barely handle the insurgency in iraq...and the u.s. has 100 times the population and area as iraq, and a VERY well-armed civilian populace...

it just ain't gonna happen.

sorry. :shrug:

[readmoreoften]

72. If they were going to refuse illegal orders they wouldn't be patrolling US soil to begin with.

It's a violation of posse comitatus. It's illegal--with the exception of the fact that George Bush tacked on a signing statement saying that it isn't. I suppose you also think that US troops wouldn't torture in Iraq and Gitmo because that's illegal too. :eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

73. it's a lot different than firing on american citizens

and although some would, i honestly believe that most would not.

[bdab1973]

77. Ugh, dude, come on...you're killing me!

This regiment is NOT "patrolling US soil". You act as though the active military shouldn't even be on US soil. We are Americans just as you are. This is our home. This unit is in STANDBY for ASSISTANCE, not to go running around shooting Americans in the back.

What a tool.

[EFerrari]

85. Tool, indeed.

[bdab1973]

88. What else

would describe someone who outright gets the mission of the Guard wrong, gets the chain of command of the Guard wrong, claims active-duty troops have no problem subverting the very nation they live in, and then tries to play Mr. Know-it-all on a message board?

[wundermaus]

19. Bring it on Chimpy...

[Uncle Joe]

22. I suspect the number will not remain at 4000, but it could also be related

to this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3532578

"Source: Reuters"

"Climate change seen aiding spread of deadly diseases"

Cheney/Bush are notorious about believing a pound of cure is worth more than an ounce of prevention. They know global warming climate change is for real, and the consequences will threaten life as we know it, our current society will be shaken to it's core.

Bush knows he has no credibility with the people anymore so instead of trying to actually use his position of power and influence to lead the way by promoting dramatic energy changes required in order to avert the worst effects of global warming climate change, something his corporate masters have long fought, they're prepping the military to turn on the people when it all hits the fan.

[KansDem]

24. Will they have chocolate bars to give out while they occupy our neighborhoods?

Perhaps nylons for the ladyfolk?

[MindMatter]

25. Two words: Signing statement

Since when has any law stopped Cheney and Bush from doing anything?

[damntexdem]

29. Well, since the law says a military coup is illegal, there obviously won't be one.

After all, the Bushistas have shown themselves to be so fastidious about obeying the law. ;-)

[Magleetis]

30. Barred by federal law?

Laws don't apply to republicans.

[Zhade]

36. Federal law also bars spying on American citizens without a warrant and starting illegal wars.

That didn't stop this administration from doing just that!

[classysassy]

37. Unrest in the new banana republic

the storm troopers are coming,run for your safety.

[Algorem]

43. they're just for passing out flowers and candy.

[readmoreoften]

50. They're just here to win our hearts and minds.

Except if we greet them with flowers we'll get a face full of chemical spray.

[shanti]

51. kicking for good measure

:kick:

[sarcasmo]

54. Let's play the which city gets Martial Law and the 4,000 troops game.

I find it interesting that they used conspiracy theorist in the article.

[ohio2007]

59. tin foil supports the theory

What good are 4,000 Soldiers on alert if you don't know where to deploy them ?
I doubt they could hold south central LA let alone coordinate a border watch south of LA.
just file it with the yearly Iran invasions

[sarcasmo]

56. Kick, I don't want to be the thread killer.

[Imagevision]

60. Well-Well-Well, the New World Order - at least we were forewarned

[ohio2007]

64. Sorry, buscho will not appoint himself presidente for life under some special decree

160,000 troops certainly don't keep the peace in a country with less then 10% of the population of the US.


4,000 troops supressing 320 million ( plus illegals ) under martial law.

right. Which state would submit to these 4,000 storm troopers ?

[scrinmaster]

67. So when a hurricane hits, and all the National Guard soldiers are in Iraq,

People bitch and moan about that they should be here in the US to help, and when they are here, people still bitch and moan about it.

[readmoreoften]

68. Then why the fuck are the National GUARD in Iraq while the INFANTRY is on US soil?

The solution is obvious: bring back the GUARD to GUARD the people under the Governors' control and send the INFANTRY off to fight wars. The INFANTRY is not supposed to help hurricane-ravaged communities. The INFANTRY is trained to kill enemies and does so under the President's orders. How fucking difficult is this to understand? Do you think it's just some wacky fluke that the Governors' National Guard is overseas while the Executive Branch's heavies are on US soil? It's supposed to be the other way around for a damn good reason.

[tabasco]

69. The infantry is in Iraq.

This is just one brigade.

Please, THINK.

BTW - there are infantry troops in the Guard.

[readmoreoften]

71. Yeah, why don't you "Please, THINK" or at least please "Read Some History"

Why do you think Posse Comitatus was formed? For fun? On a whim? For no reason at all? The National Guard is intended to be a LOCAL guard controlled by GOVERNORS, not a battle hardened infantry controlled by the Executive Branch of the US Government. If military personnel of all stripes are coming forward and denouncing this move as a coup--including Air Force Colonels--then maybe you ought to listen up.

Obviously you've never PROTESTED anything.

Do you know what ONE BRIGADE can do? Stop all this garbage about one brigade can't fight "300 million people in the streets." There will never be 300 million people in the streets.

First of all--THERE AREN'T 300 million Americans.
Second of all, about 1/2 of the population is either too young or too old to be protesting in the streets.
Third of all, about 35% of Americans are jingoistic religious nationalists, many of whom would actively HELP martial law if they thought it would christianize America.
Fourth of all, only 50% of eligible voters even bother to drive a few blocks to pull a lever let alone risk protesting.

The largest political marches in the past 50 years have been the anti-war marches of 2003, which had about 300,000 people in multiple cities total and the immigration marches which had about a million people in multiple cities. Anyone who saw the phalanxes of police mass-arresting non-protestors sitting in a public park should know that it only takes about 50 police to arrest 800 people with no resistance. And that's sneaking up on them. Add Active-Denial systems, concussion grenades, and chemical spray and you're already cutting down those crowds to 10% of their original power. The numbers protesting are already dwindling. If people knew there would be SWAT Teams AND 3000 Iraq-hardened infantry present at a protest, many casual liberal protesters simply won't show up for fear of arrest and losing their jobs. You're only going to see protests of 30,000 people tops...and those protests are ALREADY under complete control--including barbed wire detention centers, torture tactics, gags, and black bags for the heads of detainees.

Adding a brigade for 'crowd control' (and this is simply a first brigade, there is no evidence as to whether or not it will be the ONLY brigade) can only mean one thing: more repression.

So why don't you "think". Or better yet, research what is already going on.

[bdab1973]

75. You are wrong about the Guard

It is NOT supposed to be a "local Guard" run only by state governors. The stated mission of the National Guard has always been since the early 1900s a ready reserve for the active-duty military.

If the Guard is only supposed to be a "local Guard" then why do they operate F-15s and F-16s? To bomb the locals? Why do they have entire combat ready infantry and armor brigades?

Here's the short answer: To serve as a combat ready reserve force for the active military.

All the "local" stuff is an additional duty when they aren't otherwise being used for their real purpose. Please spare me the "you're wrong" nonsense because I was in the Army Guard for 8 years, and I've been on active duty for 9 years.

[bdab1973]

76. Why don't you go educate yourself first before posting...

The INFANTRY is a TYPE of military unit, it is not a specific branch of the military. The Army National Guard has numerous INFANTRY brigades, armor brigades, attack helicopter and assault aviation brigades and artillery brigades.

The INFANTRY (why the all caps I don't know why) can be either Guard OR active duty.

By the way, it is also NOT the "governor's" National Guard...the National Guard is a ready reserve of the active duty military that has state control when otherwise not required for federal duty. So essentially the states get to control the Guard when the Feds don't want or need them.

You are clueless.

[EFerrari]

83. I feel so much better now!

:sarcasm:

[bdab1973]

87. I guess you'd rather remain uneducated

as to the mission of the Guard, yet make snarky and pseudo-educated comments about it on a message board to make yourself feel knowledgeable. Please return to your Holiday Inn Express room.

[bobd0]

84. For anyone foolish enough to ingore or minimize the repercussions of this I have just two words

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/silent_guardian/">Silent Guardian

Much more at Wired.com

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/10/army-ordering-p.html

No more pesky protesters interfering with the day to day operations of their democratically elected government.

Or you could make microwave popcorn from 700 meters!

[fascisthunter]

91. I Sure as Well Won't Be Showing My Respect to Any Soldier Who Would Shoot at a US Citizen

...even if ordered.... they would be doing something verrrry unconstitutional....

[MetaTrope]

102. Isn't Colorado also where a combat brigade is under investigation for five gang rapes and murders?

Gee, what a nice coincidence.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gow7do7rkoLsupNGqAlv0_W2DdcQ