China considers buying GM and Ford

[antimatter98]

Source: 21st Century Business Herald reported in thetruthaboutcars.com

Chinese carmakers SAIC and Dongfeng have plans to acquire GM and Chrysler, China’s 21st Century Business Herald reports today. The paper cites a senior official of China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology– the state regulator of China’s auto industry– who dropped the hint that “the auto manufacturing giants in China, such as Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) and Dongfeng Motor Corporation, have the capability and intention to buy some assets of the two crisis-plagued American automakers.

At current market valuations (GM is worth less than Mattel) the Chinese government can afford to buy GM with petty cash. Even a hundred billion $ would barely dent China’s more than $2t in currency reserves."

Read more: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/breaking-news-chinese-may-buy-gm-and-chrysler/

[tblue]

1. Welcome to the United States of China.

Egad! Will it ever end? Please, Dems & Obama, save us from ourselves.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[apnu]

81. Um, GM and Ford are publically traded companies on an International level.

So, uh, technically, they are not "American" in the view of ownership.

[happyslug]

89. The Chinese can buy Ford but they can NOT control Ford.

When Henry Ford died, his family spent a good bit of money on how to divide his stock up so their would retain control AND sell stock. While non-voting stock had existed for decades, the Ford family took it to new heights. Yes, the Chinese can buy GM voting Stock and Ford Non-voting Common stock, but not the Voting stock, that is held by the Ford Family.

As early as WWII, over 94% of Ford Stock was "non-Voting", the remaining 6% was controls by the family members who ran the company.
http://books.google.com/books?id=fMDZKHnYMScC&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=Ford+non-voting+stock&source=web&ots=-5b18doZKF&sig=KfE4bntFPpX1uUObMwQ3jAWADmI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

The Ford Family still controls 40% of the Voting Stock and this with an investment that equals just 5% of the total equity in Ford.
http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EDGARpro.dll?FetchFilingHTML1?ID=1066742&SessionID=g70iWeDu1WEpXP7

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B02E7DD1631F936A25757C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

So the Chinese may be able to buy GM via its stock, buy Chrysler from the investors who own it and buy Ford Common Stock, without the co-operation of the Ford family they can never control Ford. They can Control Gm and Chrysler but not Ford.

[crazylikafox]

2. Geesh. That will be real helpful if we go to war with China & need to build tanks.

We NEED a domestic manufacturing sector.

[Taverner]

4. I thought General Dynamics and Northrop Grumman made those?

[Angleae]

61. They do, but Chrysler designed them.

[raccoon]

12. Well, that might be a deterrent to launching "pre-emptive" wars. nt

[scheming daemons]

37. It means China wouldn't risk going to war with us, or we'd "confiscate" their plants...

[crazylikafox]

41. Good point. I didn't think of that one.

[Ghost Dog]

42. Why the hell would anyone want to go to war with anyone

as long as mutually-beneficial 'business' is being done?

- Unless, of course, fanatics, religious or otherwise, which most Chinese people clearly are not.

[NeoConsSuck]

55. I don't see the Chinese as a threat to world peace

I can't say the same for my country based on the last eight years.

[WriteDown]

76. You may want to ask S. Korea about that. nt.

[pampango]

78. Why? Because of what happened 55 years ago under Chairman Mao?

The initial invasion of South Korea at the beginning of that war was by the North Korean army. China didn't join the war until the UN forces counterinvaded North Korea and got close to the border with China.

The current Chinese government has got little to do with how things were in China 50 years ago, other than they still call themselves "communist". That apparently is just for old times sake, since there is nothing "communist" about the way China is today.

[WriteDown]

80. Talking about their support for NK today. nt

[trudyco]

82. Not if they move it to china like they have with other purchases -nt

[Better Believe It]

62. If "We" Go To War Against China That Would Make Tanks Irrelevant

It would be a nuclear exchange.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Ergo, no bankruptcy and no bail-out.

Aren't you glad China isn't as communist as it used to be?

[tismyself]

5. Can we apologize

for our colonial tantrum (we do love to apologize) and give ourselves back to England now?

[jimshoes]

6. Thanks george,

you've really gone and done it now. Wanna know how history is going to judge you? It ain't going to be pretty. What's next, Saudi Arabia going to buy Oregon, or North Carolina maybe? Will the workers have to learn Chinese? What a bunch of shit.

[tabasco]

60. Thanks republican voters too!

We got a pResident you idiot fundie freaks would like to have a beer with.

[hughee99]

7. They're just looking for a product they can make

that will enable them to use all this excess plastic they seem to have. They already tried getting rid of it in the food they shipped.

[LibinMo]

8. I've given up Budweiser

since the Belgium company buyout. Now my car????

My Focus is 8 years old and I was hoping to replace it next Spring. I hope they stay away from Ford.

[Sub Atomic]

36. That's quite reactionary, don't you think?

Budweiser is still brewed in the U.S. Your refusal to continue to buy their products may cost an American a job.

And if China buys GM/Ford/Chrysler, those vehicles will continue to be made here as well.

Xenophobia isn't the answer.

[Doremus]

46. Xenophobia - you're kidding right?

You have no problem with a sizeable chunk of our manufacturing base being sold to overseas interests, but most people I think would take great exception to it and for very good reasons, not a single one having to do with the overused-to-triteness 'xenophobia.'

Do you rent your house or own it? If you own it I think you should sell it to China and have them rent it back to you. You shouldn't have any problem with that, right?

Then, after you're all settled in with the new landlords, come back and give us a report about how well you like the new arrangement. Thanks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. 'xenophobic' seems right to me

the difference is that a board based in Belgium controls the company, with more Belgian shareholders. The US has to finance its trade deficit somehow - either by selling the extensive interests it has owned overseas for years (did you expect all the locals to boycott all those American-owned companies, like Ford in Europe, or Opel, or Vauxhall?) , or selling some assets in the USA, or borrowing money from foreigners.

The objection here seems to be to foreign managers. Yes, I'd say that's xenophobia. I spent 12 years working in the UK for an American-owned company. Are you saying I should have refused, because any subsidiary outside of the country of origin is a bad thing?

[Telly Savalas]

53. We don't own the Big 3 and we didn't own Budweiser

These businesses are/were owned largely by very rich individuals who don't have any more concern for the interests of American workers than the new Chinese owners would.

[entanglement]

84. Try explaining that to the class unaware - they support "their" capitalists

It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

[sam sarrha]

9. thats why they created this crash, to sell off th last national security we possess to Bu$h Commie

cronies.. and let the banks buy up the mortgage industry.. i remember when Bank of America wanted to buy a mortgage company before this manufactured crash and the government wouldn't let them..

[alfredo]

24. That's what the shock doctrine is all about. Force a crisis, then sell off

everything, including national treasures to foreign investors.

[onehandle]

10. Thank you, Future Masters! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! (Everyone grovel!)

Chinese lessons anyone?

[AsahinaKimi]

28. If I wasn't working so hard on my Japanese...

I would love to learn Mandarin.. or even Korean. I don't think anyone will be forced
to learn Chinese. Japanese companies have come here and no one was forced to learn Japanese,
however, the amount of people who love anime, and manga, now want to learn Japanese and that's so
cool.

First Mandarin lesson!! "Nihao ma!" How are you.. and o yeah,
"xie xie" (pronouced shay shay!) That means "Thank you!".

I think its great to take up a second language !

[KamaAina]

48. Michael Phelps wanted to learn Chinese before the Olympics,

so he got Rosetta Stone. :eyes:

[sixmile]

11. 3,000,000+ people won't care where their check comes from

China, Detroit, the Moon - as long as they get paid.

[dhpgetsit]

13. Dammit the Chinese are going to OWN us if we don't act!!

Cons has literally put us into the position where the Chinese can simply buy our land and our factories and engineer a coup! We are in for a real struggle, and we need to form a united front to succeed. Higher wages drive the economy but it has to come with trade policies to protect domestic labor.

We have to reverse course REALLY QUICK! We need to pass card-check, enact fair trade policies, impose tariffs on products made with cheap foreign labor, and GET BACK ON OUR FEET!

[Thothmes]

72. Sounds like the 80s when the cry was the Japanese were going to own us.

[pampango]

79. Got to watch out for those hard working Asians, you know.

(Not that I am alleging any xenophobia about that.) :)

[David Zephyr]

86. It is the same.

The xenophobia here is disconcerting.

[LeftHander]

14. "This not your father's donkey cart."

DongFeng Malibu - "A Chinese Revolution."

"Ping pong, fried rat, Nian Gao and DongFeng."


( I apologize for the crassness of this post.... )

[nc4bo]

15. So what industry do we get to buy in China?

oh lawd. Is this what globalization really means?

[GodlessBiker]

17. The hat pin and buggy whip industries.

[shadowknows69]

22. Yep, them with the financial leverage, own the globe.

Bought right out from underneath the people living on it. How long until we start getting evicted from "our" land so the Chinese people can move here when they have no more room in China?

[pampango]

40. Yep. For many decades after WWII it was us who had the financial leverage

and the rest of the world groused about it. Not any more. Thanks, George.

[entanglement]

85. You get the prize for the most ridiculous post on this thread.

(Unless my sarcasm detector is completely broken.)

[IsItJustMe]

16. From all of the anti labor rhetoric I have been reading in some of these posts, I would imagine that

some here might think this is a great development.

[progressoid]

18. Maybe they'll give us a break on the money we owe them for the Iraq war

[earth mom]

19. Stick a fork in the U.S., it's done if this happens.

:puke:

:grr:

:argh:

[sarcasmo]

26. Bingo.

[OhioChick]

20. The U.S. of Communist China. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

50. For Communists, they are damn good at taking advantage of capitalist dumbfucks n/t

[D-Lee]

21. Those financial wizards who shipped jobs overseas and increased imports

Ah ANOTHER "forgot to consider the consequences" ...

Exactly what did they think China and similar countries were going to do with the money we were giving them? Especially with the creeping devaluation of the dollar?

Utterly foreseeable ...

[BrklynLiberal]

23. Won 't that be perfect....

:wtf:

[sarcasmo]

25. This Country is over if this happen. Just a scary society we are living in.

Yes to Banks, F/U to Union car makers. Who runs the country? Millionaire and Billionaire.

[Romulox]

27. America is finished. This is the worst country in the industrialized world. nt

[AzDar]

29. Oh. Dear. God. I think Congress needs a bit of nudging with torches and pitchforks!

WTF? :mad:

[customerserviceguy]

33. This should actually kill the bailout

Even if the Treasury hands Detroit a fat wad of cash, the stocks of GM and Ford could be bought up on the open market. No, it won't be for the paltry $1-2 a share they're priced at now, if any major buyer came in and tried to buy it all, the price would rise dramatically. Even if these Chinese firms bought half of GM and Ford, that would make the bailout seem to be supporting an overseas firm. You may as well give breaks to the Japanese and European corporations that have manufacturing plants here.

They'll just loot the assets, file Chapter 7, fire the workers, and use the dealership networks to sell Melanine-mobiles.

[KansDem]

30. Don't fret, DUers!!! We still have the "Cuban Blockade"™

We still have some "godless commie bastards"™ to push around!

[aldo]

31. Hey, we're being colonized!

The Ratfucklicans and their water carriers have sold us out, again.

[AlCzervik]

32. and Tata of India bought Jaguar last year, a little reverse colonialism.

[Javaman]

34. Meh, the chinese have been measuring the drapes for a long time now...

however, they are having their own financial problems.

However, I do believe that the congress would prevent this sale from going through. I'm not that worried.

[musiclawyer]

35. I kinda predicted this in an Edmunds thread

way back when Cerberus (sp?) was buying Chrysler. I though their intent all along was to hold and sell to Cherry or Hyundai and that Ford /GM might then be willing to be bought by the Chinese. So I was sort of right.

[scheming daemons]

38. I'm not sure this would be a BAD thing...

Inject their capital into our businesses.

It would then be in China's best interest for the U.S. economy to thrive.


They would NEVER go to war with us, because we'd just take over their "means of production" and make it our own.

[JJ]

66. Ha ha

China has controlled the means of productions for decades.
Forget cars, they're a luxury, period. Go to a hardware store and try to get a part to fix your toilet or sink, or anything else, that isn't made in China.
China could shut this country down overnight, all manufacturing of essentials is now in China and has been for many years.

[scheming daemons]

39. We don't think it is bad that Japanese companies (Toyota, Honda, Nissan) own plants in U.S.

...and hire U.S. workers...

Why would it be bad if China owned the big three?


They'd probably run the companies better than the current management.

[Ghost Dog]

43. Pure fearstruck xenophobia, ain't it.

Think I'll replay those opening scenes of Blade Runner again...

[dreamnightwind]

68. NOT!

I'm sure our Chinese overlords will treat workers with nothing but respect and reverence. NOT!

What's up with people here, don't they see what's going down? This country has been looted, and the vultures are ready to pick through the bones.

[pampango]

73. Japanese management seems to treat their workers well here. Why would the Chinese

treat workers here any differently? I should point out that American management doesn't always treat their workers with respect and reverence.

[sofa king]

44. As a former Reagan Youth Cold Warrior, I say take 'em please, China.

Really. I had a mullet and everything.

[UpInArms]

45. this is exactly what we don't want - please

:(

[On the Road]

47. This Might be the Best Solution

There seem to be no American Iacoccas now, so let someone else try to implement a successful business plan for GM. The Chinese are tough, and they won't allow waste or inefficiencies.

And don't worry that they're going to increase outsourcing. Auto components are already outsourced, and the Chinese would be buying the companies with the intention of increasing their presence in the US.

[unkachuck]

49. "... have the capability and intention to buy some assets..."

"Even a hundred billion $ would barely dent China’s more than $2t in currency reserves."

....see what happens when you manufacture wealth instead of pushing paper and consuming it?....is everybody ready for some healthy protectionism?

....I know, I know, the Communist Chinese are a fine group of hard-working people, but damn it, we're talking about saving American icons, symbols of the good-old USA....a Chinese Chevy just wouldn't be a Chevy....

[Hannah Bell]

51. not going to happen. if you follow the money, the relationship goes the other way.

countries don't buy up countries; "investors" do.

the investors that are busy moving their capital to the developing world.

gm was created by finance capital; it's a shell.

it was never "ours".

[lovuian]

54. We gave them money so they could destroy are way of life

its the ultimate screw job

[roamer65]

56. If this happens, then I definitely will buy Toyota or Nissan.

They'll export most of the jobs to southern China, and ship us toxic, crap cars.

[amandabeech]

57. NO. NO. NO. NO.

If Obama lets this go through, I will do everything possible to get rid of him in 2012, if we still have a country.

BYW, it's GM and Chrysler, not Ford.

IMHO, this is a matter of national security, and if Washington thought that they'd get away with the Dubai ports deal, they haven't seen anything yet.

Even many union busters will draw the line at selling to China.

[Neshanic]

58. Yes, and after that, CitiBank. We LOVE shopping.

[Better Believe It]

63. That Might Be Very Good News: China Rescues U.S. Capitalism

Why would they do that?

1. Because they are the only nation that can.

2. Because a global depression would have a huge impact on Chinese capitalism. It would be stopped dead in its tracks.

[hans]

64. Ya, so why don't we (the U.S. gov't) buy them? Lot cheaper than the bailout. N/T

[Better Believe It]

65. Because Free Capitalist Market Fanatics Oppose Nationalization

of industry .... excluding of course banks and financial service companies.

[cambie]

67. Relax

The time to act is long past. We borrowed a lot of gas money from China to give to Saudi. We had fun while it lasted didn't we? The rest is inevitable.

[HamdenRice]

69. If true, this is good news

The current financial catastrophe was caused in part by trade imbalances between China and the US, with China having no outlet to recycle their dollars into anything "real" and hence that money was only recycled into paper -- t-bills and mortgage backed securities -- which led to the bubble and doubts about the dollar.

If China were allowed to recycle its money back into the US through direct investment -- the way the Japanese, Europeans and Saudis have -- those imbalances would be ameliorated.

We would be an economic colony for a while, but we've been one often in the past, and this too shall pass.

[JVS]

70. sell sell sell!

[mdmc]

71. China? That the place that makes all the stuff!

Well I guess the USA still rocks the cartoons!

[harun]

74. Market cap of Ford is only 3.25 billion right now. Dollar store prices.

[newtothegame]

75. Yeah, scary. n/t

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

77. If ...IF China does it... what's stopping them from merging FORD&GM

and eliminating the UAW ?

[entanglement]

83. Sounds like a baseless rumor to prop up GM/Chrysler share prices

[David Zephyr]

87. It might be the best thing for GM and Ford.

.

[DuaneBidoux]

88. The problem is when you keep giving them dollars eventually they want to buy something.

And eventually what they can buy is any damn thing they want. If we expect the dollar to continue to hold any value we can't give it to people when we buy something from them and then tell them what they can or cannot buy with them.