Reid To Coleman: It's Over. Concede.

[DainBramaged]

Source: TPM

In a statement given to Election Central, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has called upon Norm Coleman to concede defeat in the Minnesota Senate race. Reid also reminded Coleman of his own calls early on in this process for Franken to concede and not waste taxpayer time and money:

I believe that tomorrow the bipartisan state canvassing board will certify Al Franken the winner. After all, early on Senator Coleman criticized Al Franken for wanting a recount and wasting taxpayer money. I would hope now that it is clear he lost, that Senator Coleman follow his own advice and not subject the people of Minnesota to a costly legal battle.
One major caveat: Even if Reid wants to get Franken seated immediately, there will almost certainly be a filibuster from the GOP against it, while Coleman pursues his expected legal challenges. And the reality is that there isn't really anything Reid can do to force the desired outcome if the Republican caucus stays united.



Read more: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/reid_coleman_has_lost_and_he_s.php

[Bluzmann57]

1. The likely response to Reid

"Fuck you."
I'm not much of a gambler, but if I was, I'd bet a lot of money the Coleman campaign will say something like that.

[natrat]

69. sure he is,and in the back room he and rham are planning his legal challenge,scumbags

[backscatter712]

2. What? Is that the sound of testicles descending?

Or is that a false alarm?

Still, if Reid did indeed have a spine, he would only need to bring two Republicans across the aisle for cloture.

Fifty-seven members of the Democratic Congress (not counting Franken or Burris, but counting Sanders and Lieberman), and because there's only 98 members of the Senate with Franken and Burris not seated, that means they only need 59 votes to break a filibuster.

It's possible. Not very likely given Reid's history, but possible. Maybe Biden's cracking some skulls in the background and telling Reid and other Democrats that he'd better see 59 Democrats when he takes office.

[DainBramaged]

3. t is STILL scary that so many morans voted for Coleman, scary

I think the people up ther left their brains at a fishing hole.

[Deja Q]

79. Possibly, but I know people who are very left-leaning who voted for what's-his-name... Broccoli?

Barking? What was his name? Dean Barkley?

Anyway, I know one such person and she wasn't fond of Franken but certainly didn't like Coleman; she felt her vote was a waste. (in which case, why vote in the first place, but whatever...) That was her choice; I'm not going to label her a freeper or anything else for her right to exercise her right to vote.

Still, it's nice (for once) to have a hollywood figure that's not a "R" or a Ventura...

[MindMatter]

6. Remember that the GOP threatened the Nuclear option

And in fact used that thread to take away the traditional 60-vote effect. The super-majority rule was never rescinded, but that is only because the Dems agreed to voluntarily give up their rights. It is time to play that same hardball game. Either the Republicans start acting reasonable or else we'll blow if the Super-majority rule.

[Wabbajack_]

12. "that means they only need 59 votes to break a filibuster."

No you need 60 votes to force cloture not 60%.

[backscatter712]

13. Nate Silver said otherwise.

He mentioned on fivethirtyeight.com that if two Senate seats were unfilled, 3/5 or 60% of 98 was 58.8. According to the rules, you always round up in this calculation, which means that for cloture, you need 59 seats. The official Senate rules say 3/5 of the sworn members of the Senate (in other words, vacancies don't count.) I'm presuming that Silver looked up chapter & verse on cloture rules.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/01/can-franken-give-burris-his-daily.html

[rhett o rick]

58. The point is MOOT. You ain't never going to get all the so-called Demos to vote for cloture.

There are 5 or 6 that will vote with the republicans.

[sce56]

80. Does the new President of the senate count? Joe Biden! n/t

[rhett o rick]

57. With Harry's record it's just empty rhetoric. nm

[MajorChode]

4. There's always the nuclear option

At the very least Reid should threaten the nuclear option, just like the Republicans did and force the pugs to negotiate.

This is a very dangerous precedent the pugs are going down. It means that any candidate that doesn't like the election results can tie up the court system with frivolous lawsuits indefinitely and keep a rightfully certified Senator from performing his duties.

The state of Minnesota has spoken. It's not up to the US Senate to decide. Coleman can do all the pathetic legal action he wants, but that doesn't mean the rest of the nation should suffer in the meantime until the courts process his endless string of delay tactics.

Tell Corny to lock and load and jump if he feels froggy. The pugs have a LOT more to lose in that fight.

[backscatter712]

5. I like the nuclear option in this case.

When the Repubs threatened it, it was in the case of judicial appointments - they claimed that because it's the Senate duty to vote on Presidential appointments, filibustering indefinitely was unconstitutional, thus the threat to go before the Senate President (Cheney) and ask him to get rid of filibusters in that case.

We can play that game too. Since the Senate has a duty to decide on the qualifications of its members, and make a decision as to whether to admit a member, we can argue that it's unconstitutional to delay such votes indefinitely, and we can go before the Senate President (Biden) and ask him to get rid of filibusters in this case.

That, or we can suggest that the Republicans start acting like adults if they don't want us to go nuclear...

[MajorChode]

8. I see it this way

The Republicans in the Senate need to be sent a message that there's a new sheriff in town. No more will their obstructionist tactics be tolerated like the last session.

I very much believe in the power of the filibuster. However when this power is being abused time and time again to obstruct the will of the people, the case for the termination of that power becomes stronger than the case for retention.

This showdown is very much a test of how the rest of the next two years are going to go. The Democrats cannot afford to lose this one. Corny needs to be shown his place, which is on the back row.

[Hawkeye-X]

9. If Reid had any balls and spine, he'd invoke the nuclear option immediately

after the first filibuster, and make it clear to the Republicans that we mean business, and that the Republicans has had their chance for over 28 years to fuck up the country, and it's our turn to take care of the country and fix everything, and that means REVERSING all of Chimp and Reagan's fucked up polcies, revoke ALL of the pork for the Rethuglicans and divert it to everything that the US needs. Kill the Iraq war, kill the Afghanistan war, pull the troops out immediately, cut the DoD spending to 1/3 of its FY 2008 budget, teach the defense assholes to account for every dime they spend, or they will face further cuts of more than 1/2 of the FY 2009 budget. Dismantle the Fatherland (uber Alles) Security, kick Lieberman out of the party (Nuclear option is already invoked, simple majority is needed, and Lieberfuck can go find someone's else's butt to kiss), and put monies into tax cuts for the middle/poor class, kickstart the economy by removing all corporate personhood, impose a 100% tariff on all foreign imports to the United States, and 200% for those who off-shore our jobs and send it elsewhere. Let the corporate fuckwits learn their hard way - get their asses fired, and no golden parachutes either.

I'm sure there's much more.

Hawkeye-X

[MajorChode]

11. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater

At least at this stage of the game.

What is going on here is Corny is about to get a promotion. Sen. Kay Hutchison is about to quit the Senate so she can run for governor. That will make Corny king shit senior Senator from Texas. Right now he is trying to flex his political muscle to see if he can get his other ball to descend. The Democrats in the Senate need to wait until it drops before they castrate him, and I can just about guarantee that just the THREAT of the nuclear option will invoke a chorus of pugs telling him to shut the fuck up. Right now the ONLY thing that makes any of the Republicans the least bit relevant is the filibuster.

Imagine all the Obama appointments that will be making their way through the Senate in the next 2 years. The list is mind boggling. Just the thought of all the pugs sitting on their hands through all of it will cause them to shit down their trouser legs. They will take Corny out in the parking lot and beat the shit out of him themselves if they have to.

[rhett o rick]

59. What do we have to lose if we invoke the "nuclear option". And don't tell me you don't

want to piss off the republicans. We need to hit them as hard as we can between the eyes with a 2 x 4 (metaphorically of course) and never look back.

I know, I know, it will never happen. Just dreaming. Pretending we had a true two party system.

[Acadia Blue]

76. It would be nice if the repiglican party ceased to exist.

[MajorChode]

82. Because I believe in the power of the filibuster

That belief has nothing to do with the pugs. Sometimes an issue transcends party lines. Even a Democratic Party Senator can stand up and filibuster a bill if he or she doesn't like it. So this is not just something only for the pugs' exclusive use when they have been marginalized by the voting public. So I don't necessarily want to see it go away unless the pugs are going to continue to abuse it in order to obstruct anything that appears to come from the other side.

[MindMatter]

7. Exactly, I was typing the same thing before I saw your response.

It would be worthwhile to review how that went down. In exchange for the GOP not officially ending the 60-vote cloture rule, the Dems voluntarily agreed to use it only in a few extreme cases. That's exactly what should happen now.

[MajorChode]

10. That agreement really only applied to Presidential appointments

At least as I understood it, and it only was in place over a short period of time. However, you are correct in that the spirit of that agreement should definitely apply.

[rhett o rick]

60. Disagree. You are thinking of the compromise agreement. By simple majority the Senate

can change the number of votes required to end cloture. It is a Senate rule.

[MajorChode]

83. I'm thinking about the compromise agreement...

because that's what I was writing about. Using the threat of the nuclear option will at the very least force the pugs into negotiations regarding another compromise agreement.

[Peace Patriot]

66. "It's not up to the US Senate to decide." I don't think that's true. I think Congress

has the ultimate say as to who is seated in a disputed election. I know this is true of a disputed presidential election. Congress can even nominate, elect and empower a non-candidate as president, if an election dispute cannot be resolved. Not 100% sure as to the Senate and House. But I think this is also true of Congress. Any Congressional rules scholars here?

This is one of the reasons that I was so outraged when the Diebold II Congress failed to act on the obviously stolen election in FL-13 in 2006. They basically deep-sixed the matter, I think out of fear of (or in some cases collusion with) ES&S (brethren to Diebold), the far rightwing Bushite-funded e-voting corporation whose 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines 'disappeared' 18,000 votes for Congress in a Democratic area, in an election that the Puke 'won' by only some 350 votes. I am fairly certain that Congress had the power, in that case, to seat the real winner, Christine Jennings. At the least, they should have--and had the power to--insist on a new election. There was a lot of hanky-panky, in my opinion, in how that matter got buried, when it was brought to Congress (by Jennings). It was taken to Congress because Congress is the final arbiter of a disputed Congressional election. And I think this is the case, also, with Franken.

[NBachers]

14. Let them spend their political capital on Franken

If they start right off filibustering against Franken, then they'll look even worse if they turn right back around and try it on Burris, if we decide to seat him. Or Eric Holder, or any of the other Obama nominees. Let them keep driving their old, broken-down jalopy into a brick wall over and over again. Eventually they'll destroy themselves.

I welcome repuke filibusters. It gives Dems a chance to wind up our own noise machine and make the pukes look like the obstructionist pigs they are.

IF the Dems don't back down. Time for some fortitude, Dems.

[kpete]

15. Reid To Coleman: It's Over. Concede.

Source: TPM Election Central

Reid To Coleman: It's Over. Concede.
By Eric Kleefeld - January 4, 2009, 9:58PM

In a statement given to Election Central, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has called upon Norm Coleman to concede defeat in the Minnesota Senate race. Reid also reminded Coleman of his own calls early on in this process for Franken to concede and not waste taxpayer time and money:

I believe that tomorrow the bipartisan state canvassing board will certify Al Franken the winner. After all, early on Senator Coleman criticized Al Franken for wanting a recount and wasting taxpayer money. I would hope now that it is clear he lost, that Senator Coleman follow his own advice and not subject the people of Minnesota to a costly legal battle.

One major caveat: Even if Reid wants to get Franken seated immediately, there will almost certainly be a filibuster from the GOP against it, while Coleman pursues his expected legal challenges. And the reality is that there isn't really anything Reid can do to force the desired outcome if the Republican caucus stays united.


Read more: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/reid_coleman_has_lost_and_he_s.php

[sellitman]

16. So....will Colman be a hypocrite?

He is Republican so it would come natural to him.

[Dennis Donovan]

17. "Hi Norm? It's Harry. Pack up..."

"...git the fuck out. Oh, and hit that light switch when you leave. Thanks..."

Senator Al Franken. Wow!:woohoo:

[Rhiannon12866]

29. Is that a pic of the candidates?

Which one's the winner? They both look as if they're the loser... :shrug:

[Dennis Donovan]

31. That's Franken & Davis (Franken's on the right...)

:D

[Rhiannon12866]

32. Got it! Should have recognized him.

He does appear marginally happier, if you look closely... But who'd you say the little guy was? Oh, right, Ariel Sharon's son, Omri. Is he still in huge trouble? He has good reason to look bummed out... :-(

[w4rma]

40. That wasn't cool of Donovan. They are the Kiwi comedy duo: ‘Flight of the Conchords’

http://www.hbo.com/conchords/

They are good, but not everyone in the world has heard of them or seen them.

[Dennis Donovan]

50. I know Rhiannon knows who they are...

It's an inside joke between us.;):hi:

[w4rma]

64. lol!

:hi:

[Rhiannon12866]

81. Thanks! :-) I do know who they are, but I was joking with the newbie... ;)

When I saw the pic on his post on another thread, I thought that the pic related to the post, but couldn't see the connection... :shrug:

And my friend in Australia is a fan of theirs, so I guess that they're more popular than I imagined... :-)

[silverojo]

52. Al Franken's better looking now than he was back then

He's also a lot funnier...I remember wanting to throw bricks at the TV whenever Franken & Davis polluted the airwaves.

I guess Al's living proof that people, like wine, grow better with age. :)

[Dennis Donovan]

53. That's actually "Flight of the Conchords," a folk/comedy duo...

I was joking with Rhiannon.;)

Here's Franken & Davis from way back when:


...another one (from the 80's):

[mountainvue]

70. Ha! He looks like a young Eddie Van Halen in

that first one.

[Rhiannon12866]

84. Al looks like a caveman... :o

So does the guy bottom right... ;)

:rofl:

[grace0418]

37. Band meeting. Bret? Jemaine?

Love those guys.

[Dennis Donovan]

51. ...Todd? Present. Wait... who's Todd?

:rofl:

[grace0418]

56. I'm the mutha-flippin'...

:rofl:

[pfitz59]

46. i like your avatar

"it's business time"!

[Believing Is Art]

18. Coleman to Reid: Waah! Waah! n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

19. Harry, why don't you offer to drive the Ryder truck back to Minnesota for him

Or Brooklyn, since he probably doesn't need to pretend to be from Minnesota anymore. And while you're helping him move, we'll pick a new majority leader.

Everybody wins. :)

[rwheeler31]

20. What is with these republicans ?

They think people like them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Senator Al Franken, anybody has a Billo-CAM?

Congratulations Senator Franken, and if history is any guide, legal challenge or not, Bill-o better get used to it

[sce56]

26. Prepare to fast forward!

Yes. Instant cassettes. They're out in stores before the movie is finished.

DARK HELMET: Naaaaa.

CORPORAL: Here it is, sir. Spaceballs.

COL SANDURZ: Good work, Corporal. Punch it up.

CORPORAL: starts the tape. It starts on the FBI Warning.

COL SANDURZ: Started much too early. Prepare to fast-forward.

CORPORAL: Preparing to fast-forward.

COL SANDURZ:Fast-forward.

CORPORAL: Fast-forwarding, sir.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Looks like marinara

:-)

[sce56]

42. Oh great compare it to food urp uhh I just had Urp stuffed shells and marinera sauce Ralpffffff

Oh just kidding on the Raplff part But I did have the pasta!

[NutmegYankee]

22. How many votes are required to change the rules to require a real fillibuster?

Lets make them stand there and talk for a week.

[Hawkeye-X]

23. 51, if Reid had the balls to invoke the nuclear option

Which should have been done after the 2006 elections. Now that we have 58 Democratic Senators, we can invoke it and show the Republican hypocrisy to the world.

Hawkeye-X

[NutmegYankee]

27. Don't eliminate it.

Just make it hard to do, so that they are shamed by non-stop coverage of their asshattery.

[rhett o rick]

61. Why not eliminate it? Afraid to piss off the repubs?? nm

[NutmegYankee]

71. No, We can find ourselves on the other side again.

We should always remember that.

[rhett o rick]

72. Are you saying that we should be nice to the republicans so that they will do the same for us

some day, maybe?? I say no. Use every tactic in the book. They have been total obstructionist over the last eight years and didn't allow Democrats to filibuster. I say when they are down we need to kick them and hard. My father told me to avoid a fight at all costs, but if it isn't possible, fight to win.

The purpose of the rule is to protect the minority. This rule has been abused for the last two years allowing the minority too much power. The rule works among gentlemen/gentlewomen but the republicans have shown that they are not willing to play nice.

The only reaching across the aisle should be to punch them hard in their noses.

[NutmegYankee]

74. If you eliminate it, and we fall back to the minority, then what do we have?

I'm not saying be nice, just keep the filibuster, but make them actually read a phone book on the news.

[rhett o rick]

75. And I am saying that even if we don't eliminate it, that is no guarantee that they won't.

They threaten the nuclear option to get Sen Reid to capitulate. We lose either way.

[PSPS]

24. A simple majority can change the fillibuster or eliminate it entirely (the "nuclear option.")

[billyoc]

49. Oh, none. It's just become accepted practice to accept the threat of a filibuster.

Reid could just nod his head and eliminate it for the remainder of the session, or just one filibuster, whatever.

[MajorChode]

54. Exactly

The only problem is in doing so you give the Republicans their exclusive soapbox which I'm sure would be widely publicized the first time it was allowed to happen. If you're going to go down that road, you need to require it for ALL of their filibusters, and unfortunately there's just too many things that need to get done so they really don't have the time to spare in what might otherwise be a worthwhile endeavor.

[bluestateguy]

25. If COleman persists, Reid may be forced to send him a sternly written letter

Expressing the hurt feelings of Senate Democrats if he does not concede.

[rhett o rick]

35. Damn, I hope it doesn't have to come to that. What a shame.

:sarcasm:

[Rhiannon12866]

30. Is anybody surprised?! Come on, remember which party you're dealing with...

They'll have to pry those disputed ballots out of somebody's "cold dead hands..." :eyes:

[sakabatou]

33. I can see an op-ed toon of Coleman dressed as a crying baby

[MiniMe]

63. Those teeth in a baby would be scary!

:scared:

[babylonsister]

34. Good for Reid. The rethugs will look really stupid if they fight this.

Fair and square, Franken won. It sucks to have no recourse.

[rhett o rick]

36. Plez Harry plez, force the asshats to actually filibuster. Make them stand there making fools of

themselves over the seating of a duel elected Senator. Plez Harry, don't let me down again.

[gratuitous]

38. Yes, let's find out how united the Republicans are

Will all 41 of them unite to deny a spot to a duly-elected Senator? Somehow I don't think so. Unless, of course, the craven likes of McConnell and the rest would like to see their certified elections denied by a filibuster against seating them.

[demodonkey]

39. Yeah REAL FILIBUSTER. Make 'em read the phone book on C-SPAN.

Do it Harry!

[Hulk]

41. No, no, no.....they don't play by even THEIR own rules.

You know this prick is going to do everything he can to drag it out. cronyn, the ass hole from tx is going to do the same.

It's not "what's good for the country"...it's what's good for the party of neocon fascists.

What is wrong with MN? They either have GREAT politicians, or they have those that should be held by their feet to clean out toilets with. Such trash. That dumb bitch from the House, and then this prick. God, I'm ashamed of my home state.

[pnwmom]

44. Several percent were purists who voted for the MORE progressive candidate,

the representative of the Green party.

So you can blame them.

[DUlover2909]

45. I'm starting to get the impression that Republicans aren't very nice people.

[DFW]

43. In the case of a Republican filibuster

Is Coleman allowed in as a Senator to vote on his own behalf, when it isn't clear that
he is a Senator any more? If not, unless Lieberman votes Republican, they don't have
their necessary quota to block cloture.

[Thor_MN]

55. Well, as soon as the new congress is seated Coleman is no longer senator...

unless, of course, he is seated on Tuesday, which he won't be. Starting Tueday morning, the media should properly be referring to him as FORMER Senator Coleman. Will be interesting to see which ones do it correctly.

[saracat]

47. Like Coleman would listen to Reid? Of course Coleman should concede

but this is just showboating by Reid.Talk about a statement of the obvious made at time it is no longer necessary. One can always count on Harry to never take a stand when relevant.

[LoZoccolo]

48. Oh, so now everybody loves him. n/t

[peaches2003]

62. Why doesn't Reid force a real filibuster?

Why don't we go back to the real filibuster- they want a filibuster, then they can stand there at the podium and talk till they are blue in the face. When the hell was it decided that all one side has to do is threaten a filibuster and everyone then caved in? Let them talk 24/7 if they really want to stop a vote.

[bdamomma]

65. I guess Reid grows some occasionally.

[natrat]

67. his whole wimp act is bs...he is just a crook like most of them

[rhett o rick]

73. Sad to think that there are those that think this qualifies as getting tough. This was rhetoric,

empty rhetoric. Not a threat, not even an empty threat.

[Peace Patriot]

68. Kudos to Al Franken for taking this to the mat!

I was upset with Al Franken because he dissed talk of election fraud after the 2004 election theft, on his talk show, and seemed to be taking his orders from Terry McAuliffe. I have to say that Franken has redeemed himself in my eyes, and I hope also that he now has more respect for COUNTING EVERY VOTE IN PUBLIC VIEW, which is all election fraud activists ever asked for. He has now gone through the fire, and come out a hero! What a fighter!

:patriot: :bounce: GO, AL! :bounce: :patriot:

[Endangered Specie]

77. What about the NUCLEAR OPTION?

[Deja Q]

78. Nice to read Reid saying that.

Coleman did indeed start this mess with "Let's not bother with vote counting, it's just a waste of taxpayer money". It took very little time to reveal things weren't in his favor after all, so that's when he did a total 180.

Good riddance to Coleman.

And if the GOP had half the sense it claimed to have about fiscal spending and being patriotic, they would have zippered Norm's mouth shut ages ago. Given 6 of the last 8 years having them controlling all 3 branches of government and deficit spending rose to unprecedented levels, they can't blame a damn thing on the Democrats. Not this time... so, no, no zipper action - one way or the other.