Smokers face a hit as tobacco taxes spike

[onehandle]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON – However they satisfy their nicotine cravings, tobacco users are facing a big hit as the single largest federal tobacco tax increase ever takes effect Wednesday.

Tobacco companies and public health advocates, longtime foes in the nicotine battles, are trying to turn the situation to their advantage. The major cigarette makers raised prices a couple of weeks ago, partly to offset any drop in profits once the per-pack tax climbs from 39 cents to $1.01.

Medical groups see a tax increase right in the middle of a recession as a great incentive to help persuade smokers to quit.

Tobacco taxes are soaring to finance a major expansion of health insurance for children. President Barack Obama signed that health initiative soon after taking office.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090329/ap_on_go_ot/tobacco_tax

---

:nopity:

[BooScout]

1. Welcome to my world....

Cigarettes are about $10 a pack here in the UK.

[glowing]

2. I'm quitting. Sorry, poor children, I won't be able to fund your healthcare.

[Bandit]

14. You also won't be the cause of the children needing Health care.

From your second hand smoke.. I say it is a win win for you..

[Bake]

128. How do you know he/she smokes around children?

Typical ...

Bake

[kiva]

131. Yes, because the only reason children need

health care is because of second hand smoke. :crazy:

[LanternWaste]

167. Tobacco taxes is the only funding the program receives...?

Tobacco taxes is the only funding the program receives...?

ed:sp

[panader0]

3. I'm a light smoker

What if the new taxes (most of the cost of a pack of smokes was already taxes) were used only for smokers? I pay land taxes and those monies are used for local things like roads, schools, services, etc. I shouldn't have to pay for schools and roads in Delaware.
Tax fast food, it contributes as much to poor health, or more, than tobacco.

[debunkthelies]

55. I second that,

Fast food is one of the biggest contributors to child health problems there is,you can keep them away from second-hand smoke but when you fill their bodies with poison, junk food.......which is worse?

[Thor_MN]

68. Don't you have that backwards?

Or are you claiming that being in the same room where junk food is being consumed is bad for your health. You can keep your children away from second hand smoke, but are absolutely helpless at keeping them away from junk food?

I agree that junk food is not healthy, but that does not mean that tobacco should not be taxed.

[debunkthelies]

96. You read my post wrong.

I did not compare being in a Mac D's was the same as being in a smoke filled room, and the point was people don't keep their children away from junk food, they buy it for them because it's quick and easy not because it's healthy. What's worse walking by someone smoking or feeding kids fast food burgers and fries loaded with MSG.:eyes:

[ProudDad]

93. Get real!

Your $5 pack of cancer sticks have will have about $1.25 of tax in them.

By no laws of mathematics to which I am familiar is that "most"...

You're being ripped off by your friendly corporate drug dealers in North Carolina NOT by the Feds trying to cover the cost of your filthy habit...

Get a grip and keep your filthy habit away from my breathing apparatus.

[panader0]

100. What's your "filthy habit"? Or are you pure Through and through?

Hypocrite.

[TroglodyteScholar]

122. Are you implying that everyone has a habit as filthy as smoking?

Far from true....

[bunnies]

162. Educate yourself.

That poster already pays $2.00 a pack in state taxes ALONE.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/245.html

$2.00 + $1.25 = $3.25.

I know you're not familiar with the "laws of mathematics" but in elementary math $3.25 = MOST of $5.00.

[ProudDad]

179. You should brush up on your reading skills

That poster does NOT pay $2.00 per pack in state tax.

And even if she/he did, it's still not enough to cover the state and federal costs for the damage that ciggs do.

[roguevalley]

120. tax both. they both kill. there are zero levels of safe smoke for non smokers.

tax both.

[noamnety]

135. The two are separate issues, but

I would be very happy to see unhealthy food additives taxed instead of subsidized.

[old mark]

4. Quit. nt

[Why Syzygy]

5. I already dropped 'em when they raised their prices!

I cannot do $7, much less $8. For now, I'm on roll your own, after a fail at quitting.
I'll try the quit later though.

[ohio2007]

6. I went cold turkey years ago

forced myself to smoke three packs a day in the final week before my target quit day.

If I can do it.....

But then again, I really WANTED to give it up.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

7. Federal taxes

Cigarettes - $6.40 per carton on all cigarettes.
Cigars - 33.6% increase.
Little Cigars - $2.20 per carton.
Smokeless Tobacco - 158% tax increase.
Pipe Tobacco - 158% increase in the tax.
RYO Tobacco - 2,159% tax increase,
$9.33 per 6 oz bag, $24.87 per 16 oz bag.
Cigar Wraps - 2,159% tax increase - $5.00 per box.
Cigarette Tubes - $0.16 per 200 ct box.

[Summermoondancer]

130. It is the price you pay

we are not talking taxing food folks...it is cigarettes you don´t need them to stay alive.
I think we should legalize drugs too and do the same thing. If you don´t like the price of a product you don´t need do not buy it.

[The_Commonist]

8. Cigarettes are $10 a pack in NYC...

...and some brands are even $10.50

It's gotten so that most people I know who still smoke buy the American Spirit rolling tobacco.
It's $8 a pack, and lasts about a week.
You can even mix a little something special into it, and stretch that further too...

[billyoc]

9. Who the hell pays taxes on cigarettes?

http://www.dutyfreedepot.com/

What now, bitches?

[tosh]

12. Thanks for that, billyoc.

[onehandle]

18. Almost all smokers buy in convenience stores or grocery stores.

I read that "bulk buying" actually makes smokers think twice about how much they spend on smokes.

Buying a pack or two at a time increases the odds that they will stay hooked.

[billyoc]

22. Well, those smokers deserve to foot the bill for health care

if they're willing to pay 5x more for smokes.

[santamargarita]

39. Has anyone tested this site?

http://www.dutyfreedepot.com

[Seedersandleechers]

89. Thanks for that link

I can save $20 on a bottle of Opium!!!

[Abacus]

126. I used to use yesmoke, but they quit shipping to the US

I haven't smoked for ~4 weeks now; good thing I didn't know about that site then.

[SOS]

129. Good to read a post from someone who lives in the real world

These threads usually revolve around such issues as "filthy habit" and "regressive taxes".
All well and good, but irrelevant to actual cigarette purchases in areas where the taxes have reached absurd levels.

In NYC cigs are $10.50 a pack.
Other than tourists, no one pays the tax anyway.
They went too far and have created a whole new world of bootlegging, counterfeiting and hustling.

This link, courtesy of the New York Times, gives a good idea of what is happening in the real world:

http://www.discount-cigarettes.org/

No checking account? There are plenty of bootleggers, selling out of car trunks, who will sell for $6.

Tax policy has to be reasonable.
If the taxes create $11 packs of cigarettes, people will find a way around it in about five minutes.

[Carni]

134. Wow there are some great prices on spirits!

Thanks for that link!

[ixion]

10. ...

:grr: :argh:

[Kajsa]

11. Yet, no such tax increases

on alcohol.

Are we being targeted?
(especially in CA)

Hell yes!

:(

[ohio2007]

15. when did congress pass this tax increase?

Guess thats what Barack meant when he promised tax cuts for 95% of americans



The other 5% must be bending over ready to put their heads up their arses

[Kajsa]

17. See the link,

from the OP,

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090329/ap_on_go_ot/tobacco_tax

[ohio2007]

38. Barack Obama signed that health initiative soon after taking office.

Bet he doesn't have to buy his smokes

[endless october]

20. alcohol is in line for taxation

i believe fattening food is next in line, though.

[Abq_Sarah]

147. Good.

Maybe if we taxed alcohol the way we do cigarettes, people couldn't afford to drive drunk here and kill people.

[Odin2005]

13. Oh noes, get the WAAAAHmbulance!!!

:nopity:

[Kajsa]

26. Just wait till beer gets hit with

a 30% price increase- lots of Waahmbulances
needed then.

[frustrated_lefty]

45. Warmth will fill my heart

when they tax your fat, flatulent ass for all of the extra space you take up and the offense to the eyes which you present. Are we fair now? :)

[russspeakeasy]

80. ABSOLUTELY !!!

All you fat bastards that are laughing about the tax increase,
don't be surprised when I nudge your fat ass back into your
own seat and check with the stewards' to make sure you paid
50% more...have a salad once in awhile.......

[Webster Green]

16. Great additional incentive to quit (n/t)

[Milspec]

24. My incentive was two weeks ago

When I bought 2 cartons of American Spirits,at a indian smoke shop her in Tulsa. Cost $100.00

[Speck Tater]

27. My incentive was a good friend's lung cancer diagnosis.

She probably has less than a year to live.
I'm at smoke free day number 29. (And I had been smoking so long that I started out paying $2.50 a CARTON.)

When cigs went from 25 cents to 30 cents a pack my mom said she would quit if they ever hit 50 cents a pack. In reality, she kept right on smoking till about 3 years ago when she finally quit after her sister and two of her brothers got lung cancer. Even in her mid eighties, her health improved after quitting. It's never too late, until it IS too late, and then, well, it's just too late. Better to quit right now.

[pmorlan1]

44. Incentive? I Think Not - Try Coercion

The only people who see this as some type of an "incentive" are non-smokers. Smokers see it for what it is - coercion

Incentive - a positive motivational influence

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS306US306&defl=en&q=define:incentive&ei=fbbPSfqyL96JtgfVoJTTCQ&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

Definitions of coercion on the Web:

the act of compelling by force of authority
compulsion: using force to cause something to occur; "though pressed into rugby under compulsion I began to enjoy the game"; "they didn't have to use coercion"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Coercion (co-er-shion) is the practice of compelling a person or manipulating them to behave in an involuntary way (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats, intimidation or some other form of pressure or force. ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercion

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS306US306&defl=en&q=define:coercion&ei=KLfPScTdOJmxtgfi2MzUCQ&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

[Webster Green]

47. Ah jeez!

That's pretty hardcore grammar-nazi of you, but I see you're from tobaccy country. :P

[harun]

51. It help me quit, but that was years ago when they first really starting taxing

them heavy.

[WheelWalker]

158. My incentive was surviving a massive myocardial infarc. n/t

[endless october]

19. i hate regressive taxes.

glad i quit.

[G_j]

21. since tobacco is arguably more addictive than heroin

and addiction is considered a disease, something feels wrong about substantially taxing addicts.
& It would be nice to have help available for this disease.

[primavera]

37. But then the government would have to find legitimate ways of funding pork

As it stands, smokers can be compelled to foot the bill for any and all pet pork projects. If the government was to actually act upon their alleged concern for public health and fund smoking cessation programs, they would have to go out, hat in hand, and find money for their pork the old fashioned way, by convincing the public to fund it. Why on earth would anyone want to have to go to all of that trouble when you can just get smokers to pay for everything?

[vanboggie]

69. Exactly

I would check myself into a nicotine addiction rehab facility in a minute if there was one nearby. There are very few available in this country, because I've looked into it. The hard-core smokers, the most addicted of us who pay the exhorbitant sin tax do so because we're addicts. Other than Chantix, nothing else has come close to helping me, and I've tried everything. I relapsed after quitting with Chantix, though I do smoke 75% less than the 3 packs a day I did before. I'll try Chantix therapy again one of these days, but intensive therapy in lockdown is really what is needed for the hardened smoker.

It's too bad the sanctimonious non-smokers don't put their efforts into a medical solution instead of berating smokers and profiting from our addiction by letting us finance OTHER public programs. It is also too bad that at least a portion of the money we pay in cig taxes isn't used *constructively* to help us beat the addiction. Breaking a habit sounds easy, but try beating an addiction while trying to carry on with a normal life.

Do you really think the states and federal government expect us to quit when they raise our sin tax? If they did, they wouldn't be depending on our money to finance other public programs.

What bothers me more than anything is seeing good Democrats and progressives with such a Republican-like intolerant attitude toward smokers.

[Robb]

84. Well put. nt

[pamela]

108. Have you tried the electronic cig?

I love mine. I've owned one for about a month now and I think it is amazing. I'm still smoking a little bit but about 75% less than I was smoking a month ago. There is talk of banning them though, so I'm stocking up.

[vanboggie]

109. Never heard of it

I would be interested in more info. Is there a link to where you can get one of them online? Why do they want to ban it - does it zap you or is it so effective that the Tax Man doesn't want it out there?

[pamela]

113. check out this forum...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

There is a lot to learn about them and that forum is great. Don't buy the ones they are selling in malls-they are over-priced and the quality isn't as good as some of the independent suppliers you will find on that site. From the suppliers on there I've used Altsmoke and Puresmoker and liked them both but a lot of them have been having problems keeping things in stock lately. Puresmoker restocked the other night and sold out in about an hour. There is a new supplier on there that seems to have stock now-DietSmokes. I've heard good things about them.

My husband laughed when I first mentioned the e-cig. I'm a hard-core smoker and he thought I'd try it and toss it aside. I LOVE IT! When he saw how much I cut down with mine he wanted one, and he likes his too. The only reason I haven't switched completely is I'm afraid they are going to be banned soon. Lautenberg (D-NJ) has already asked the FDA to ban them-that's why I'm stocking up.

Also...
Read this thread about other DUers experiences with them.http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=326x473 If you decide you want to try an e-cig PM me and I will try to give you some advice. I'm relatively new to it though so you could probably learn more from that forum I mentioned.

[vanboggie]

139. Thank you Pamela!

I can't read through it right this minute, but appreciate the info and will check out you links a little later. I appreciate the info!

[Bryn]

146. When you get your first e-cigarette you will enjoy ....

Smoking INSIDE (not really smoking since you'd be vaping instead)

Awaiting with great anticipation the first person to see you smoking who just takes a quick glance at the smoke-like substance and instantly goes into that bloody annoying fake coughing routine, merely so you can point at them and make them feel stupid for being an ignorant douche when you reveal the whole.. lack of tobacco smoke thing.

Having a cool toy to confound and enthrall everyone in town who's never heard of e-smoking.. So.. Everyone, basically. And then shooting them to e-cigarette websites.

Of course you will save tons of money

I ordered my first DSE901 from www.totallywicked-eliquid.com. This website even has a forum where you will learn more.

[vanboggie]

151. Most interesting

That UK site put aside my fears about smoking mysterious liquid from China. At first glance they are pricy, but then I just paid $56 bucks for a carton of Marlboros at a Michigan discount tobacco store. I can see where it would be cheaper in the long run, plus I'd love to have one just to drive people crazy who think I'm smoking in prohibited area. :evilgrin:

Thanks for the additional info, Bryn. I think I may try it. Besides, I could have my two favorite vices, coffee and cigs, all in one handy dandy dispenser!

[suffragette]

148. They are nice, aren't they?

I use mine inside. On weekends I use my Pilot and Dura more then my cigs, which really surprised me the 1st time that happened.
I wonder how many of us are members of both forums?

[pamela]

114. Oops sorry, I didn't answer your question about the ban...

It's complicated. There hasn't been adequate testing yet on them and they are made in China. Anti-smoking groups are really pushing for the ban which is crazy considering that you are not smoking with them. They say that it will lead kids to try them and then get addicted to nicotine and other such bullshit. Basically, they are a threat to Big Tobacco and Big Pharm and yes, I think the fact that they haven't figured out a way to tax the hell out of them yet plays a part in it too. A few smoking cessation specialists have come out in support of them recently though so it's not all bad news.

Sorry I'm kind of rambling but I'm in a hurry. I can try to give you better answers this evening if you are still interested.

[snooper2]

127. thanks for the info- how long do the cartridges last you?

I was looking at one company and they said one cartridge lasts about the same as 15 cigarettes?

[pamela]

141. Cartridges can last indefinitely...

On most models, cartridges can be refilled with eJuice. Most suppliers sell bottles of liquid (eJuice) that you can use to top off your carts when they start to get dry. The liquids consist of nicotine, propylene glycol and flavoring. They come in a lot of different flavors and at first that sounds strange but it quickly becomes fun trying the different flavors. I've bought sampler packs from several suppliers and have found that I love some flavors I thought I'd hate and hate some flavors I thought I'd love. It's strange.

My husband has one of the little models that looks like a cig. His cartridges are harder to refill but still doable. I have a DSE901 and a penstyle and the cartridges are very easy to refill on those models. I use different carts for different flavors and refill the carts for days. After a few days it will start to taste a bit stale but even then the cart filling can be taken out, washed, dried and reused-good as new. The pre-filled carts that come with the cigs aren't as good (imo) as the ones you fill yourself. You can buy empty carts and fill your own which is what most people do. This not only saves money but is a better vaping experience.

[Bryn]

144. I love my e-cigarette which is DSE901

Amazing isn't it? I ordered DSE901 from Totally Wicked website because other websites were out of stock. Jason (owner of Totally Wicked) is quick on shipping and his e-juices are wonderful! He's British, but in Florida. I also have ordered 501 TEC TITAN from same company, but via Totally Wicked in UK, but I have heard of this one having some problem like carts not fitting so I will see. And then I ordered a penstyle from epuff website that has 4 holes. I am also stocking up in case USA decides to ban those which would be sad.

Keep this thread going so that people can be aware of this e-cigarettes as many of them don't know about it.

[ms liberty]

118. Well said. Thank you. n/t

[ProudDad]

174. Having gone through withdrawal

from a 2 pack a day - nearly 30 year heavy addiction to ciggs, the main requirement is a true desire to quit.

Then use whatever it takes to quit.

I used nicorette gum (back when a prescription was required -- you can buy it over the counter) and a final, complete desire to quit and have been tobacco free for over 25 years now.

Try doing a written inventory of the shitty things the habit costs you and how much better your life would be without the addiction.

Then realize that it only takes one day at a time for about 30 days to get past the worst of it.

Good luck...

[ProudDad]

94. You'ld rather they sling their asses into prison? (n/t)

[G_j]

102. I don't understand your question. nt

[Doremus]

152. Wouldn't it be nice to have free smoke cessation treatments, clinics and such?

You would think that some of that windfall from the tobacco lawsuit several years ago could have found its way down to actually helping people instead of lining corporate pockets, huh?

Same old story, different day: pad the corporate coffers and blame it all on the baaaad, baaaad people.

[Mari333]

23. looks like I will have to change my addiction to something cheap toxic and deadly

http://www.goveg.com/contamination_antibiotics.asp

[Mauibob]

25. tobacco tax

This tax especially hit the least that can afford it. They smoke at a much higher rate than the wealthy. I fit into that class and just received my first order from russia. The cigarettes aren' near as good, but for $17 versus $57 dollars, I'll suffer through. So, this tax increase will not result in me paying more taxes at $1.01 but I no longer will be paying the old $0.39 tax per pack. The best part is that, thanks to Obama and the democrats, I will get my taxes reduced twice and gain a windfall on my savings from buying my cigarettes from overseas. I will also assist in destroying the US tobacco industry. Sorry farmers and factory workers. I love Obama.

[Mari333]

28. oh what website did you use to order from russia

and welcome to DU!

[Mauibob]

32. russian cigarettes

It takes a couple of weeks to get them so keep that in mind.

http://www.cigoutlet.net/

[Mari333]

33. thanks! nt

[onehandle]

34. See reply #18. nt

[debunkthelies]

58. Thanks

From those who refuse to comply.:toast:

[pmorlan1]

41. No Russian Cigs for me

I guess I'll just wait until I can buy smuggled cigarettes from some drug dealer or wait until smokeasies start selling contraband cigarettes.

[DavidMS]

76. Thats my only problem with higher tobacco taxes

Increased organized crime, lawlessness and tobacco smuggling. I would prefer to raise the taxes at a slightly slower rate to discourage smuggling and organized crime.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. What's ironic to me

is that they are helping health care using a smoked plant that is habit forming and not considered moral by many. Yet when asked about doing exactly that, Obama laughed in the faces of the askers. When he had just signed this tax. Which raises money by taxing a plant that is smoked, and far more unhealthy than the other one....

[riverdeep]

178. That 'other' plant causes pleasure.

You can't have people going around getting pleasure that isn't tied into the corporate grid. Trust the corporations to give you pleasure as needed, they know best.

[DissedByBush]

30. Hitting the poor the hardest

I love the idiocy of taxes like this. If they succeed in ridding the country of smokers there will be no more money for what the taxes fund.

Don't worry, some other Congress, some other President down the road will have to deal with that. Not our problem.

[onehandle]

31. Nicotine slavery hits the poor the hardest.

And if there are no more smokers, states will reap Billions in savings that can go towards prevention, rather than sickness.

[DissedByBush]

52. May I choose another vice to persecute?

You don't have a problem persecuting smoking. What vices do you have that we can persecute. Do you drive a fossil-fuel car? Do you drink alcohol? Do you play contact sports? Do you eat fatty foods?

The last one is perfect! A "Fat tax." Obesity puts a huge strain on our health care system. We can tax the fatsos out of their hamburgers, candies and whole milk so that "states will reap Billions in savings that can go towards prevention, rather than sickness."

Everybody wants to play God.

[onehandle]

62. Yes. That's one of the handful of old responses throw out.

Cars drive me places.

Alcohol, not in excess, can improve your health.

Food is fuel. Again, not in excess.

Contact sports? That's a weird one to throw out. I exercise. Maybe the weight machine or treadmill could fall over on me. Whatever.

And all of the above is taxed one way or another.


Smoking serves no real purpose and it is an addictive drug. That's why it is an easy target.

[DissedByBush]

87. Alzheimer's

Studies have shown an inverse correlation between smoking and Alzheimer's.

"That's why it is an easy target."

Exactly! In our overlords' effort to tell us how to live our lives, they pick the lowest-hanging fruit first. They pick those things they think they can get the public behind. It's the same public that will be wondering what happened when their vices are hit.

"And all of the above is taxed one way or another."

Yes, it is taxed. But it is not taxed maliciously. Too many people are fat, so we have to raise taxes on fattening foods to stop them from getting so fat. People drive cars that hurt the environment, so we raise taxes on gas to discourage driving. Both of course hurt the poor the most.

BTW, if you play sports *I* consider dangerous, you up the healthcare costs for me. Therefore you are not allowed to play them.

It's all the same attitude. And it is just as wrong.

[christx30]

97. Or better yet,

don't use taxation to try to force social engineering. Just use taxation to fund the needed functions of government.
And a lot of people here are complaining about higher taxes on cigarettes. But no one is complaining about the higher income taxes. Guess when it is you that is expected to dig a little deeper, you complain about it being a regressive tax. But when someone else is expected to give 50% of his income (which he or she can't avoid by just not buying something), they are assholes for complaining about it.
Either put up or shut up.

[vanboggie]

103. self delete

but I had a great comeback

[christx30]

143. If you don't want to

reply to me here, you can send me mail. I'd love to hear the comeback.

[Tyler Generation]

43. Poor people don't have an excuse to smoke

I'm sorry I don't get the bleeding heart for poor people that smoke. Like they don't know it's a horrible addictive waste of the little money they have.

[DissedByBush]

49. And you think you have the power

To make such such choices for other people?

I've heard such attitudes before but it usually comes from Republicans.

[debunkthelies]

59. How True

Sounds like a Repug is in here:shrug:
Some people just don't get it.

[Tyler Generation]

71. Wow, objective thought process from you two!

Oh, I must be a Republican, must have really thought that one out. I'll be more hive minded next time so I don't offend you, and I thought we were all grown ups here.

I'm tired of seeing poor people patronized on here like they are children who need College Educated Democrats to make all their decisions for them. There is not a single reason for anyone to use dangerous tobacco products when the health information is readily available(on the cigarettes themselves for example). If they do make the decision to continue smoking, it's there responsibility to pay for it or quit.

Seriously, low income people are just as intelligent and capable of making bad and good choices just like anyone else. Forgive me for not broad brushing and coddling them, or justifying a stupid decision like smoking.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

74. Being poor is a huge stressor.

Try reading up on Nicotine's effect on the Limbic system some time, if you have a few minutes between bouts of being smug and self-satisfied and grossly judgmental.

[Tyler Generation]

79. I smoked for 10 years and quit actually

Sorry if expecting personal responsibility out of all people in all income brackets is being "smug" and judgmental.

You know what, I'll go tell all the poor people I know that don't smoke(and I know a few) to start smoking to help deal with their financial stress, great idea. Brand new health problems and setting aside money for cigarettes, that will just be wonderful.

[ElboRuum]

125. So, what, you want a cookie?

You're not smug because you "expect personal responsibility out of all people in all income brackets". You are smug because you succeeded where many others fail, knowing full well how difficult quitting is, and proceed to tell it as though it was the easiest bloody thing in the world to do. The condescension is quite palpable.

[Dreamer Tatum]

136. I wonder how you'd respond to the following tobacco industry report

"Research Indicates All Marketing Efforts Should be Directed Toward the Stupid and Poor"

Which they do, anyway, but you're in the curious position of DEFENDING the outcome.

[DissedByBush]

145. Seriously, you get to decide what's good and bad?

That is the same logic used by the Republicans. They have the Christian "absolute morality" on their side, so they get to ban what to them is not moral. Different-race and same-sex marriages come to mind. Let's not forget the disaster of Prohibition.

We don't agree, but hey we gave them the power didn't we? How did we give them the power? Easy, because some of us wanted that power for themselves and forgot they won't always be the ones wielding that power.

[christx30]

173. I don't think

TylerGeneration was trying to wield power over the poor. He was voicing an opinion in that cigarettes are expensive and maybe it would be a better use of the money that they normally spend on cigarettes to do other things like bills or whatnot. But we do have freedom in this country and you can do what you like. If you only have $300 and you want to spend $100 of it on cigarettes when you need to pay water and electric bills and get groceries and you don't have enough, then that is your right. Just don't expect other people to tell you that you are doing the right thing. Smoking is expensive and the government is taxing the hell out of everything these days, and everyone is going to be hit. Rich and poor alike.

[WestSeattle2]

50. I don't get it either....

comfortably middle-class people can't afford cigarettes, so how in the world can low-income people afford them? I've never understood that. Of course I've never understood why poor people's diets are so atrocious, either. Processed food (the bulk of low-income earner's diets) is so much more expensive than fresh produce, and so harmful to our bodies. That defies logic. The less money you have, the healthier your diet should be! I understand that in some inner-city neighborhoods they lack grocery stores that sell fresh produce, however healthy food is generally a short bus ride away. Maybe after the carton of cigarettes is purchased there is only enough money left for a few bags of Dorito's.

[wroberts189]

106. Let me put it this way..

If you are broke .. you live in a different world and life is very tough.

For some that one cigarette or bottle keeps them from suicide.

... I keep finding myself appealing to people for empathy but until you have been addicted you will not have it.

[wroberts189]

105. No "bleeding heart" ...listen ..have you ever got addicted? nt

[madrchsod]

35. i quit smoking in 82 when cigs were around a dollar a pack

i spent about 182 (a pack every two days) and my wife smokes a pack a day so she spends about 2100 a year.

my doctors and anesthesiologists love the fact i do not smoke or drink...

[SlicerDicer-]

36. Thank you feds...

You just violently pushed me to grow my own tobacco.. Till they make that illegal anyway fuck em.

And I have been growing garden hydroponic for the past 2 years now.. even had cops come by lol! Fuck you and the horse you rode in on Feds. You fucking suck for nailing people that hard... 16$ to 41$ a pound, how do you sleep at night?

[Mari333]

40. you are evil because you smoke

thats the new meme. Forget about the industrial polluters, corporatists, military spending and tonnage of antibiotics and pesticides being pumped into the mouths of everyone vis a vis the air and water and food , the agri business and pharma industries and uber wealthy fuckers who run the country..its that little guy over there on his lunch break who just worked 12 hours for mimimum wage lighting up a cig who is the evildoer. its easier to attack him. hows he going to fight back? hes nothing.

[SlicerDicer-]

42. Ok its rant time!

Yeah, lets see.. We are corn! the end... Good luck changing that anytime soon and we are obese as a nation due to it. I dare you to dispute unless you are vegan. (mad props Dennis)

Industrial pollution? As a smoker I went to California and the air there hurt me.. Tell me smoking is worse? I think not.. I could not breath there no wonder asthma is on the rise. Industrial pollution causes pollution of ground water.. Thanks! My water contains arsenic whats moar hazardous? Industrial Pollution? We are permanently damaging our DNA yay!

Military Spending? Bah thats popcorn farts to me I could give a shit.

Tonnage of Antibiotics now there is a interesting thing. I have been doing research on this very thing. I find that its quite incredible how antibiotics are used to sustain factory farming. And true to words the farming will likely cause a major plague outbreak of some form if not stopped. Be it H5N1 or be it a air transmittable Bubonic Plague. These organisms have survived this long and they are not ones to be trifled with.. Pesticides are killing bacteria in the soil that is good... nuking soil and no matter what people think dead soil is about the worst thing you can have. Do some research on Cuba and the recovery of soil..

Then you look at I-NPK that causes dead zones.. incomplete nitrogen cycle.. and a whole host of other problems... So instead of completing the nitrogen cycle we pump our fertilizer that has been in the soil into the oceans.. One of these days we will be so screwed.. we do not reuse our own fecal matter or urine.. All fecal and urine should be recycled to complete nitrogen cycle. We excrete small amounts of macronutrients that plants need so do animals. Without this for so long we have been dependent on I-NPK over O-NPK.

So what do you do? Nothing actually! I cant buy land to make a difference as they have rammed the cost so high.. Either that or zoned it to the point of being illegal.. I cant even do in my own yard what I want due to NIMBY! They wont let me put a greenhouse in my yard as it would look bad..

We are so fucked collectively if we cannot stop the insanity.

BTW: Love your image

[pmorlan1]

46. Authoritarian Tobacco Police

I'm really sick of all the smug tobacco police on this website. For me they are no better than the pro-lifers who try to tell women what to do with their own bodies. Both of these groups of authoritarians seem to take great pleasure in telling other people how to live their lives. We don't need an authoritarian right and we certainly don't need an authoritarian left.

[WestSeattle2]

48. Just wait....

until we have universal health care......The true cost of obesity, alcoholism, and smoking are somewhat hidden today. Tomorrow, when the cost of universal care comes out of our individual pockets, you can bet the health police will be out in full force. The result of course will be a somewhat healthier America, however I, like you, deeply resent others telling me how to live my life. I envision a day when if our body fat index exceeds what is deemed healthy at that time, we will pay much for more health insurance. Same for tobacco products. If our government-mandated annual blood test results indicate tobacco use, our premiums will skyrocket. Lung cancer, COPD, heart disease, oxygen tanks, none of it is cheap.

Granted, none of this has even been mentioned in the president's health proposals, however one need only look to California to see the handwriting on the wall.

[debunkthelies]

61. Amen

Why do some people find it necessary to stick their noses in other peoples lives.
I find most judgmental people could not stand a spotlight on the dark corners of their lives.:hide:

[krabigirl]

154. seriously, everyone is sooo holier-than-thou about everything nowadays. very boring.

[joshcryer]

166. epic post, awesome

[LanternWaste]

168. And they just peacefully pushed me to quit...

And they just peacefully pushed me to quit... I suppose we all make our own choices.

[downindixie]

53. I've been smoking for 53 years and never

asked anyone to pay my hospital bill,because I pay for my insurance.Picking on smokers for second hand smoke in our world of factory pollution is big business way of diverting attention away from them.The tobacco tax is taxation without representation.It is forced on us people of lower income and if we did want to quit the tax should pay for treatment for us to quit.Its like the Kings taxes on the poor people in England that got to be so much they couldn't live on what was left.So they took action against the King.
You don't smoke and thats fine, just leave me the fuck alone!

[debunkthelies]

60. K&R

Well said.

[Dogmudgeon]

54. This regressive policy will hit young smokers hardest!

The average 12, 14, 15 year old won't be able to light up to relieve the tension between classes.

And they'll be forced to beat up old ladies and rob liquor stores to look cool.

Can you imagine Miley Cyrus without a Marlboro Light dangling between her lips? How un-sexy can you get?

We need Smokers's Right's NOW!

Tax Assholes, Not Butts!

--d!

[ohio2007]

67. The Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009 was signed into law oFebruary 4

Federal Excise Tax Increase and Related Provisions

The Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009 (“Act,” Public Law 111-3), was signed into law on February 4, 2009.The Act increases the Federal excise taxes on tobacco products and sets forth new permit and enforcement provisions regarding tobacco products and processed tobacco.

snip

http://www.ttb.gov/main_pages/schip-summary.shtml


long story short, the next (unborn) generation will most likely see the smoking lamp go out permanently imo

[bain_sidhe]

56. Can we at least agree...

that there is something fundamentally wrong about taxing a segment of our population - any segment of the population - to pay for services which they, the taxed, are not eligible to receive?

Honestly, I quit smoking last year, so this tax doesn't affect me, but the hatred toward smokers does. As does the mindset of this tax.

It's just *wrong* to make "some" minority of people pay for services they themselves can't even receive. (Because the taxes are funding SCHIP, which is for children, who legally CAN'T be smokers.)

[bain_sidhe]

70. *crickets*

[ohio2007]

75. ..but in the same breath you have no problem saying

'tax the rich' ;)

there is something fundamentally wrong about taxing a segment of our population - any segment of the population - to pay for services which they, the taxed, are not eligible to receive?


.....
It's just *wrong* to make "some" minority of people pay for services they themselves can't even receive.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3805708&mesg_id=3806051

just sayin
:shrug:

[bain_sidhe]

78. The rich receive the benefits

of most, if not all of the services their taxes help provide. They get the same use of the roads, the same protection from fire and police, the same use of the courts, etc...

This cannot be said of the only people being taxed - adult smokers - to expand health care to more children. Smokers aren't children. They aren't eligible for the services being provided.

[Tyler Generation]

81. Stop making sense!

Amazing how smokers turn into "Tea Baggers" in an instant on here.

[bain_sidhe]

77. *more crickets*

whatsa matter? No answer for that, you anti-smoking zealots? Could it be because you actually recognize that this tax is fundamentally unfair, but just don't care because it doesn't affect you?

[christx30]

99. Would you say that

childless homeowners should have to pay school taxes?
They can't take advantage of the service. But they still have to pay thousands in taxes every year.
And those taxes keep going up.

[bain_sidhe]

138. The difference is

*everybody* (or rather, every home owner) pays property taxes (which, btw, fund a lot more than just schools, including many benefits that childless homeowners *can* use). The point is, though, that childless homeowners aren't singled out to pay for schools. Just as people who have never had a fire aren't singled out to pay for the fire department, and people who never drive on XYZ Road aren't singled out to pay for pothole repairs to that road, and so on.

[christx30]

142. But only smokers

pay tobacco taxes. If you don't want to pay the tax, don't buy cigarettes. Smokers aren't getting singled out. But they do something that brings extra taxes. And there is nothing wrong with that. It's the most easily escaped tax in the country!
If you don't want to pay income taxes, you go to jail. Or you have to use all kinds of legal and less than legal means to hide your money. And I don't see why smokers have a problem with paying more in taxes, but are perfectly ok with income taxes going up.
I guess it's just easier to spend someone else's money. But you don't like paying the taxes.

[wroberts189]

107. Count me in. nt

[rd_kent]

57. Am I missing something? Whats the problem here?

[DatManFromNawlins]

63. Suddenly...

... I can justify smoking a better brand of cigar because of this tax. If I'm going to have to ante up 6-8 bucks for a decent stogie, I'm going to buy them from an overseas company that supplies authentic Cubans.

[christx30]

101. What would you say

if you heard about a rich person that hid his money in an overseas account that the IRS couldn't touch? Would you say that he was guilty of a crime? Would you say that he was a selfish asshole because he didn't want to pay his fair share for the services that he enjoys in this country and should be charged and sent to jail for tax avoidance/evasion?
This isn't just directed at you. Just anyone that wants to raise income taxes on some people to 40 or 50% but not pay their fair share by smuggling cigarettes from overseas.

[annabanana]

64. Those e-cigs are looking better & better, aren't they?

http://www.puresmoker.com/

[Deep13]

65. We can't hope to reform healthcare without contolling its cost.

PART of that means reducing the causes of disease.


I say "part" because I expect some idiot will say I'm putting the burden on working people while letting the corporations off the hook. No, it is only part of the solution. We have to fix (eliminate?) how insurance works too.

[ohio2007]

66. Cigarette tax kicks in April 1st ( 258% TAX increase for the "roll your own" crowd ))

On April 1, new Federal Excise taxes will once again raise the price of cigarettes, cigars, snuff, bulk tobacco and other tobacco related products yet few are aware of the outrageous over 2200 percent rise in taxes on bulk tobacco, the type of tobacco bought by consumers who want to save money and roll their own cigarettes, or the phenomenal tax increase levied on small cigars.

snip
Federal Excise Tax Increase and Floor Stocks Tax
The Act increases the Federal excise tax on all tobacco products and cigarette papers and cigarette tubes, effective April 1, 2009. In addition, the Act imposes a floor stocks tax on all tobacco products (except large cigars), cigarette papers and cigarette tubes held for sale on April 1, 2009.

snip

http://www.ttb.gov/main_pages/schip-summary.shtml
see graph at link

[Tyler Generation]

72. No, some idiot will give Tobacco companies a free pass because of their bias

It kills me how because of people's own vices, one of the worst corporations around get a free ride. Actually it just pisses me off, because there isn't a damn reason for it besides the fact people CHOOSE to smoke.

Smoker's need to put up or shut up. Unless you all are against health care for kids, or expect the money for it to just come out of thin air.

[downindixie]

73. I pay for my own kids health care

For all the other kids I would expect the cost to come out of everyones thin air not just mine!

[primavera]

86. ROTFL!

I see! So smokers are either "against health care for kids or (they) expect the money for it to just come out of thin air"? Umm, pardon me for asking the incredibly obvious, but why isn't that a question which applies equally to everyone in this country? You have no difficulty assuming a position of superior righteousness by being in favor of health care for children, yet you strangely seem to have no problem reconciling that professed commitment with the straight-faced expectation that the monies for it will "come out of thin air," or at least from somebody other than yourself. Well, sure, it's easy to be generous when you can pass the costs on to others while you yourself pay nothing. So, you're totally at ease hitching a free ride from other citizens, but perceive no inconsistency in rebuking those other citizens for not wanting to give you that free ride. Tell me, how do you manage to hold this extremely convenient viewpoint without bursting into laughter?

[bunnies]

163. By that logic...

anyone who doesnt smoke is against health care for kids. Genius.

[russspeakeasy]

82. You are really Jeb Bush aren't you????

Your brother is smarter than you...!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deep13]

123. If this were a sporting event....

...I would have won by forfeit.

Explain what you mean.

[williesgirl]

83. So how are they going to fund SCHIP when we all stop smoking? Get ready beer drinkers, wine, butter

anything they can say is unhealthy, yet LEGAL. Does anyone realize just how many Americans will lose their jobs over this misguided law? You are hitting ONE INDUSTRY with all of this, and it's a totally American one whether you agree with their product or not. How bout taxing the hell out of companies who buy children's toys from China, complete with lead? At least when that industry got creamed it's not an American one.

I'm sorry. I agree with SCHIP, just not how they funded it. It's nuts. Flame away.

[Codeine]

85. You're not going to quit.

You don't want to and you couldn't even if you did wish to do so. They could charge twenty bucks a pack you'd pay it and pat yourself on the back for enjoying your "freedom," which is in fact absolute and total corporate slavery.

People have used this bullshit argument for years, that somehow they'll run out of smokers to tax. Never happens. Never will.

[Bryn]

98. You're wrong

Smokers will switch to e-cigarettes. Most of them still haven't heard of a e-cigarette. When I got my first e-cigarette, I stopped smoking within two days. Now I am loving my e-cigarette and have already ordered two more. Much cheaper and healthier. My sisters and brother in law have already switched to e-cigarettes. No $$$ from me for SCHIP, sorry poor children.

[Marrah_G]

119. Yes- they will. I did.

As the prices kept rising here in Mass, I quit. It's been 3 months now.

I would still be smoking if it were not for the cost.

[rasputin1952]

88. A "fair tax" would be on something everyone uses...I figure

toilet paper should be taxed to the hilt, as virtually everyone uses the stuff...and recycling is pretty much out of the question.

edit for typo...:hi:

[ohio2007]

90. the gas tax is only a few short months away from the floor of congress

oh,
they have their health care and retirement plan nailed down already and we will take it up the gas and like it
:sarcasm:

[rasputin1952]

91. Gas can have unwanted consequences...

Florida student suspended from bus for passing gas

March 24, 2009


LAKELAND, Fla. (AP) -- An eighth-grader was suspended from riding the school bus for three days after being accused of passing gas. The bus driver wrote on a misbehavior form that a 15-year-old teen passing gas on the bus Monday to make the other children laugh, creating a stench so bad that it was difficult to breathe. The bus driver handed the teen the suspension form the next day.

Polk County school officials said there's no rule against flatulence, but there are rules against causing a disturbance on the bus.

The teen said he wasn't the one passing gas.

Whether he did it or not, he might have gotten off easy. A 13-year-old student at a Stuart school was arrested in November after authorities said he broke wind in class.

[ProudDad]

92. WooHoo!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[martymar64]

95. Sounds like a black market opportunity

One can buy tax-free smokes at the Indian Reservations and make a killing selling them back home.
While your at it, go ahead and prohibit alcohol. I'm sure I can make a mint from bathtub vodka.

I love free enterprise!

[kster]

111. Better hurry

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--cigaretteheist0329mar29,0,6707841.story

[wroberts189]

104. I am an x-smoker who has great empathy for those who still smoke.

Took me many attempts.

Its an addiction that never leaves you completely. I still get it when I watch old movies where the star lights up.

Sometimes after dinner... I am missing something ..what is it?... oh a smoke. damn.


For some its smokes or going postal. The slightest thing will activate the most ferocious of tempers.


Please have some understanding for those who still smoke. When you tax the hell out of them you are not making it any easier to quit. You are adding stress. Most are poor and smoking to relieve tension. Some can pay the tax and have no worries. So you basically hurt the poor... and then most states just take the money and do not use it to help smokers.

Universal comprehensive health coverage could reduce the number of smokers and eventually drive big tobacco out of business.

[Bluebear]

112. +1

[kster]

110. An unfair tax always creates an underground "Heist nets more than $90,000 in cigarettes"

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--cigaretteheist0329mar29,0,6707841.story

[canineunits]

115. Smokers are too easy of a target.

[TXRAT2]

116. Smokers are too easy of a target.

And who will they tax when there are no more smokers? They will make up that loss of revenue from somebody.

Don't tax him, don't tax me, tax that man behind the tree.

[primavera]

121. Why do you think the taxes collected never go to smoking cessation programs?

Government obviously doesn't want smokers to quit, they just want them ostracized so that no one will perceive anything unfair about forcing them to foot the bill for everything.

[KillCapitalism]

117. I don't see a problem with this.

No one NEEDS cigarettes to live & also they are a total waste of money.

[ElboRuum]

124. I see a problem with this...

A country that adopts an attitude of "fair" persecution, regardless of the intent, good or bad, invariably adopts it as a tool for justification of more and more "fair" persecutions.

Whether you may think so or not, the fact is that "sin taxes" have always been used to curtail legal behaviors and activities that segments of the community find immoral or damaging. Typically, these sin taxes are bifurcated in their justification. Usually there is a reasonable aspect to their justification, however it is the other, the societal admonition, which drives the zealotry to implementing them.

If we could reason that smokers should be permitted their "habit" among other smokers, it would be a simple matter to see that a public establishment choosing to cater to smokers should not be the subject of a ban. However, that IS NOT what the societal admonition zealotry wants. It sees smoking as a filthy habit, and those that indulge that habit (nevermind that for most of us it's not a habit, but a powerful addiction) are weak and immoral and have to be saved from ourselves... or more to the point, that the society itself must be saved from us. And if that isn't just the sort of fascist authoritarianism we've come to know and loathe, I don't know what the hell is.

Just look at some of the authoritarian hoo-hah being spewed by people in this thread and tell me it isn't the Temperance Movement all over again. The same justifications, the same memes, the same casting of the portion of society they wish to change into some sort of untouchable caste for the sake of a political end.

The price of freedom is paid first and foremost in the idea that in order to have a free society, you have to be accepting of the freedom of others, no matter how distasteful and wrong you may find how they choose to exercise it. You lose that, you lose freedom. But who the fuck am I to talk of virtue? I'm just a pathetic, dirty smoker. It's OK though. I take solace in the fact that when someone can coercively tax the shit out of someone else for justification of the "greater good", I can sit out there and say, "I have no problem with that."

[Dreamer Tatum]

137. Arguing economic freedom against someone named "KillCapitalism"

and who has a Marx avatar might be a low-productivity event.

[ElboRuum]

140. I do not believe that you always pick the low-hanging fruit first.

Then again, maybe Don Quixote was a real person, and maybe, if I look back through my genealogy far enough, I'll see him staring back at me.

[Zavulon]

153. I have a big problem with this.

If I went through your house, would every single thing I find be something that one "NEEDS...to live?"

Just wait until the government pisses away the revenue, needs more, and comes after something you like with a great big tax. Then it'll be fun to see you hop off your high horse.

[ShareTheWoods]

160. Then why just tobacco? How about booze, big macs, sugar etc

Can you support huge taxes for all products that are not NEEDED and have the potential to harm oneself?

[DainBramaged]

132. Sin taxes always affect the poorest in out Nation.

a sin in itself

[Christa]

133. I hope they do the same with alcohol. nt

[SOS]

172. That would be good, but 1,000 liquor lobbyists will stop it.

When the ODCP wanted to include underage drinking in their drug control budget, the booze lobbyists went nuts.
The liquor industry apparently wants teenagers to begin the long, ugly descent into alcoholism.
The idea was killed and no money was approved to educate young people about the dangers of alcohol.

btw - an 18 cent tax on every bottle of beer would pay for Schip in full.

[flaminbats]

149. treat it like the payroll tax..

IMO every penny that comes from federal tobacco taxes should go directly into the Medicare trust fund. If that produces a surplus in the Medicare trust
fund, every penny of that surplus should be used for providing health care to uninsured citizens. Then smokers will be getting something back and the uninsured won't be left holding such outrageous medical bills!

It still amazes me that smokers will pay such a high price tag to destroy themselves while diabetics pay more than $100 for a bottle of insulin just to stay alive. Another reason to legalize pot..then every penny spent on a joint will pay another person's medical bill.

[mokawanis]

150. I intend to keep smoking

but will switch, today, to rolling my own. The anti-smokers and the fascist legislators can all kiss my ass. Fuck them.

[krabigirl]

155. Cool. When I used to smoke, I preferred to roll my own.

[-..__...]

156. Lets place a tax on baby formula, food, diapers, clothing, etc...

and see what the reaction here is like when the shoe is on the other foot.

[ohio2007]

157. They call that a sales tax

happens everytime at the checkout line...8% tax on damn near everythingeverything

[-..__...]

161. Sales tax are instituted by states...

and the tax rate and taxable items vary from state to state.

Taxation of cigarettes can be set by the states in addition to the federal tax, and then there's the additional state "sin tax"/excise tax on certain purchases... let's apply that to to the items I suggested.

Why not?

If the argument is that taxes should be applied to smokers to help/offset health care costs, then taxes on infant/childrens items should be equally applied to help fund prenatal and child health care costs.

[ProudDad]

176. Hate the fucking "kalashnikitty"

What're you some tough m*therf*cker?

[ShareTheWoods]

159. Why not add fifty cents tax to every ounce of booze too?

That would generate quite a bit of income for many more people needing health care. Is there a good reason
not to spread this tax to all the other vices that are detrimental to ones health?

Why just tobacco?

[ohio2007]

165. How about a tax on tea. ? Smokers need tax dog house companion

Alcohol tax is up for discussion this summer btw

[workinclasszero]

164. I quit at one dollar a pack

Never in my wildest dream would I pay 5 bucks a pack for cancer sticks! Jeez!

It should cost one dollar per smoke IMHO. I hate the stinkin smell of smokers even when they are not smoking. It is sooo offensive and I smoked for 20 years. DUH!

You know what they say about ex-smokers? Yeah that's me. Tax the living hell out of them so millions more will quit and millions more kids will never start that filthy dirty addiction.

[LanternWaste]

170. I felt like a schmuck when I realized...

I felt like a schmuck when I realized how much my little vice has cost me over the years-- at a pack a day for 20 years, finding a cost average it worked out to just over $20,000. That's a lot of hungry people I could have been feeding but was a bit to self-occupied to do so.




(Quit the day the new tax hit this month-- feeling pretty good about it, especially after reading all the posts filled with righteous indignation and holy fury :P )

[ohheckyeah]

169. It's the American way

Force people to your way through taxation and nanny state laws.

Were things just boring here so you had to start a smoking thread? They never end well.

[hayu_lol]

171. Ahhhh, the Nicotine Nazis are on a roll...

since so many of them are obviously pot smokers, where are THEY going to smoke?

Booze won't be taxed...they already tried that and it failed bigtime.

How about a huge tax on robocalling and taped advertising messages which are a problem facing all of us?

[ProudDad]

175. Eliminate the advertising deduction

Imagine how much more wonderful the world would be without most of the advertising industry!

And the extra corporate income tax available!

No billboards. Truly public media without the distortion of corporate creation of demand.

Love it!

[Imagevision]

177. Our government knows smokers are addicted to the nicotine and takes advantage of it

while claiming the higher price of cigarettes will be a deterrent in making them stop? - Do junkies stop using heroine because the price goes up? And they still allow the tobacco companies to increase the amounts of nicotine to hook the kissies..