GM says open to moving from Detroit headquarters

[OhioChick]

Source: Reuters

11 May 2009, 2208 hrs IST, REUTERS

DETROIT: General Motors Corp is open to considering moving its headquarters from Detroit, selling off U.S. plants and even renegotiating parts of
its restructuring plan with its major union, the new chief executive said on Monday.

CEO Fritz Henderson, on a conference call with reporters, said it was more probable that GM was headed for bankruptcy by June 1 - the U.S. government-imposed deadline for the automaker to restructure or face bankruptcy.

"It's more probable that we would need to accomplish our goals in a bankruptcy," Henderson said. "There's still a chance for it to be done outside a court proceeding."

A move by GM to leave Detroit would represent another blow for the economy of a region already reeling from the bankruptcy of Chrysler LLC and the sharp downturn in auto manufacturing.

GM purchased its glass-towered headquarter building known as Detroit's Renaissance Center last year for $625 million. The 100-year-old automaker has been based there since 1996.


Read more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/International-Business/GM-open-to-moving-from-Detroit-HQ/articleshow/4510913.cms

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Snip~ The UAW, which is crucial to GM's turnaround plans since it is also a major creditor, has raised strong objections to GM plans to increase vehicle imports from plants in Mexico and Korea, saying that runs against the job-saving intent of the U.S. government's support for the automaker.

[blue_onyx]

1. If GM moves its headquarters from the Detroit area

I will never purchase a GM again.

[damntexdem]

20. Neither will I.

Of course, I never have bought a new GM vehicle, either. ;-)

[sufrommich]

33. Me neither. Assholes.

[PassingFair]

2. We are SO dead.

Stick a fork in us.

:cry:

[Not Me]

3. What a colossal waste of money that would be.

I worked for a company that was headquartered in a Northeast Rustbelt city.
They brought on a new divisional VP from Atlanta and he would not sleep until he pulled his division out of the HQ and into new digs in ATL. The costs (not only of moving, but increased travel costs and the never-filled space they vacated) were astromonical.
All for one guy's ego.

In the end, it usually does no good to move headquarters unless some other dynamic in the business requires it.

[damntexdem]

22. Some other dynamic in the business = union-busting.

If they're going South because they're going south, we might suggest further south -- as in "go to hell!"

[Hugin]

4. Any guesses where they'll be moving?

I have my suspicions.

[WriteDown]

6. Alambama, Arkansas, South Carolina etc? nt

[Bluebear]

8. Bangalore? Shanghai?

[blue_onyx]

9. Certainly somewhere in the south

Maybe Tennessee, North Carolina, or Georgia?

[Lorien]

64. Are there any States with a lower cost of living than Michigan?

Even in the rural areas of the South you can't often find a nice Craftsman bungalow for $12,000.

[Hannah Bell]

18. beijing.

[Xithras]

66. I'm actually kind of shocked that the Chinese haven't made a play for these companies.

The Chinese have been wanting to get into the US car market for years, but have issues with US perceptions of their safety and reliability (rightly so, I might add). A Chinese car with a Chevy brand name on it would be another story.

[KansDem]

58. UAE?

Dubai?

Maybe Halliburton has some office space for them.

[global1]

5. What Will Moving HQ Accomplish?

It makes absolutely no sense and it would be a very costly proposition at this time of financial strife that the company is undergoing.

[blue_onyx]

7. I agree...it makes no sense

It would be very costly to move. I hope it's just a ploy to get more government money. If GM does move its headquarters out of Michigan, I hope Obama cuts off government assistance and lets the company go under.

[Blue_Tires]

10. if they can do it on the government's dime

and if a warm, fresh southern city offers them a shitload of tax breaks and other perks, (see Nissan's move to Nashville from L.A.) they would do it tomorrow...

[AngryAmish]

54. It is very hard to attract good people to Detroit

Primarily because it is in Detroit.

[Romulox]

60. What a stupid (not to mention uninformed) comment. nt

[liberal N proud]

11. How can a company that is broke afford to move?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Kolesar]

12. Flint, Michigan

...would like the business.

[MichiganVote]

13. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon

[WriteDown]

14. There may actually be some legitimate reasons for moving

the HQ. Get away from MI state taxes, attract a different pool of labor who normally would not move to Detroit. Mind you this is HQ we are talking about so these are white-collar jobs.

[blue_onyx]

15. MI taxes aren't particularly high

so there's not really a tax-based reason to move. Are white-collar jobs are useless? These would be thousands and thousands of lost Michigan jobs. My state and metro Detroit would be devastated by the lose of GM.

[WriteDown]

16. Not according to this....

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2009/01/michigan_business_tax_a_top_wo.html

[Hannah Bell]

21. that's one guy bitching about his taxes. do a state-by-state comparison.

http://www.ppinys.org/reports/jtf/businesstax.htm

and since GM rigs its books to show US losses, they ain't paying much tax here anyway.

they got 38 billion in tax offsets in '08.

[WriteDown]

24. Uh....

this looks grossly inaccurate. Try this for some better info.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/bp58.pdf

[blue_onyx]

25. "grossly inaccurate?"

Most states are ranked the same, including MI (20th)

[WriteDown]

27. I may have misread it then.

If so then my bad. Please see post 26.

[Hannah Bell]

28. LOL. the far-right tax foundation = "good source"? they're one of the biggest liars on tax

policy in the game.


http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/the-tax-foundation-is-not-a-reliable-source/

[WriteDown]

30. Didn't you just say that most of the #'s matched your source?

:eyes:

[blue_onyx]

32. Nope...that was me

[WriteDown]

35. Darn donation avatars!!!!!!!!!! nt

[OhioChick]

46. No shit.....I'm grown used to member's avatars! n/t

[Hannah Bell]

37. nope, the other poster. now look at their funders: scaife et al. the same folks

who funded the clinton blue dress attack & every other r-wing propoganda going.

http://mediatransparency.org/recipientgrants.php?recipientID=699

[No Elephants]

52. Write Down seems to have a marked preference for both RW sources and RW positions.

[Romulox]

61. Write Down has proven time and again that she knows ZILCH about the auto industry. nt

[WriteDown]

68. Yeah, supporting union labor and actually reading auto

reviews and judging American automobiles on their current merit is "zilch." Sorry, I can't be like the other Toyota/Honda Acolytes on DU. I was just debating the merits and disincentives of moving GM Corporate from MI. This has ZILCH to do with manufacturing.

[Romulox]

72. Er, the comings and goings of GM most certainly DO have *something* to do with manufacturing

:shrug:

(And no Toyota/Honda acolyte, I...)

[WriteDown]

77. Eh...

We can disagree on that. I'm not sure that moving GM corporate would affect the current factory locations. I could be wrong about that. I would rather that unions be a requirement everywhere and then to allow companies to choose any state they wish.

[Romulox]

78. See, this is what I'm talking about. The only union employees at GM World HQ

are likely janitors or the occasional nurse. The white collar workforce is not unionized. Thus, "right to work" laws won't figure into any hypothetical decision of GM to move it's headquarters. :hi:

"I would rather that unions be a requirement everywhere and then to allow companies to choose any state they wish."

[Lorien]

65. Indeed. a.k.a. "Ignored"

after a while the Right Wing talking points became too tiresome.

[No Elephants]

79. Thanks for the confirmation.

[WriteDown]

67. You seem to have a preference for:

inanity, but I'm not one to judge. :)

[No Elephants]

73. You're entitled to your opinion. And so are your socks. However,

inanity does not violate board rules. RW posters do.

[WriteDown]

76. My socks have an opinion?

:shrug: Actually, calling someone a RW poster violates board rules. You may want to read up.

[No Elephants]

80. No, but they are entitled to your opinion.

I never saw that in the board rules. But fear of getting banned would never cause me to change how I post. I post in a manner I consider appropriate. If a board owner disagrees, so be it. Nothing abounds on the internets like message boards. I'll cope.

I have never been banned from any board in 5 years of posting, though.

[Occulus]

70. I've noticed that myself. n/t

[No Elephants]

74. Thanks for the confirmation.

[blue_onyx]

23. There was a change in our business tax

Most companies benefited but there were some that had taxes increase. Usually, Michigan is ranked in the middle of the states as far as taxes. Here is a Detroit Free Press article that deals with this high tax myth:

"Those who argue our business taxes are high ignore the facts. When comparing how state tax laws affect economic performance, the nonpartisan Tax Foundation ranks Michigan 20th best in the country, ahead of most of our Midwestern neighbors."

http://www.freep.com/article/20090409/OPINION05/904090362/1231/OPINION/It+s+fair++State+seeks+right+balance


Michigan being a high tax state is a myth usually pushed by the MI Republican party.

[WriteDown]

26. Makes sense and is backed up by this...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/bp58.pdf

But it would still make some degree of sense to move to TX, FL, OR, etc. I'm obviously talking about white-collar jobs. Unfortunately, many people won't even consider moving to Detroit or Flint anymore. I worked there a lot in the late nineties. A friend of mine described it well. He said it looked like Gotham city out of Tim Burton's Batman.

[blue_onyx]

31. Well....

I've read before that southern states have had problems getting qualified workers for the automotive plants. Michigan's strength is in the automotive sector so leaving doesn't make sense. There are people who wouldn't want to work here but there are a lot of GM workers who wouldn't want to or couldn't follow GM elsewhere. I don't work for GM but I would never want to live in TX or FL. So in my case, I would leave my job. GM could lose much of its workforce if it were to move which is risky at this time. The company needs people who can help GM through this difficult period. Having a company full of newly hired employees who don't know what's going on wouldn't make much sense.

[WriteDown]

34. Different issue...

As far as the blue-collar workers, they would have to stay in MI due to the need for skilled labor and the inability to move them to another state. We're talking about corporate HQ though and that can be moved anymore and most white-collar workers are used to relocating. I've done so MANY times.

[blue_onyx]

38. Many people would be stuck

unless GM offers to buy their homes. Some people have significant others who have jobs so may choose to stay. Also, GM would piss off their strongest market. I know I would never purchase a GM vehicle again if they were to leave the state. In fact, I would want Obama to stop all government assistance and just let GM go under.

This is all hypothetical though...I doubt GM would leave Michigan.

[WriteDown]

39. I've been in those same situations before...

its actually fairly common these days for companies to move. I would still want Obama to stop assistance to banks first though before GM.

[Hannah Bell]

41. "it's fairly common" - who cares? doesn't mean it's not done to fuck the workers.

[WriteDown]

42. I've moved a company before...

much smaller, but I moved from New Rochelle, NY to Wilmington, NC because we could not afford the tax people. The majority of our workers actually followed the company. We then expanded in NC and tripled the workforce(from 20 to around 60). So did we help 40 people or did we screw the 10 or so who did not want to leave?

[Hannah Bell]

43. who cares? seriously, who fucking cares. there is no reason workers should have to uproot their

lives & families to chase work all over the globe so that some stupid company can get lower taxes or cheaper labor.

if you can't see this for the destructive idiocy & labor arbitrage it is, there's no hope for you.

but then, you apparently get your tax "facts" from scaife, inc. the heir of the man who said:

"in a depression, money returns to its rightful owners."

[WriteDown]

48. Done ranting?

Are you just going to keep businesses where they start? So the owner never has an opportunity to move his/her business? What if he wants to be closer to family? What if he just wants a drier/warmer climate? Why limit it to businesses? Why not tax people who move from state to state? Or who leave the country?

[Hannah Bell]

49. The fact that *you* moved a business, or that businesses move "all the time"

has precisely no relevance to the GM issue. None.

Nor do your rhetorical questions.

[WriteDown]

50. My questions aren't rhetorical...

Not in the least. GM is free to move its HQ if it likes. I am a huge supporter of union labor, but HQ has no bearing on that whatsoever. I wonder what the reaction would be if GM was moving from Atlanta TO Detroit.

[blue_onyx]

56. The fact that these aren't union jobs doesn't change

the effect it would have on the Detroit region. Michigan has lost almost as many jobs as Louisiana did after Hurricane Katrina. The only difference is we did NOT receive any federal aid. Losing GM would cut thousands of direct jobs and thousands of more indirectly. Our state would see a sudden drop in population that hasn't been seen before. The disregard and lack of compassion people feel toward Detroit/Michigan is sad.

[WriteDown]

57. You misunderstand...

I hope they stay in Detroit. I was just exploring the reasons they might leave.

[semillama]

59. Actually, there is a comparable situation in Michigan history

And that's the shuttering of the copper mining industry in the UP in the early 20th century. Once it became unprofitable to continue mining, all the companies left, and a lot of the population in the UP left with them. Interestingly enough, the auto industry in Detroit lured 20,000 people from the UP alone (about 9% of the total population!).

The overall trend in the UP is a slow decrease in population, although there has been an increase in the last couple of decades. Still, the population is well under its high point from about 1920.

If you like ghost towns, the western UP is a good place to go!

[sufrommich]

69. My Mom was born in the Keweenaw Peninsula,I've been going

up there all my life and I'm 52, even at my age I remember a time during my teens when Calumet was still a thriving town for the U.P , needless to say, we still go up there every summer and I've never seen it as empty as it is now. I'd always hoped it would eventually resemble some of the old west towns that became artist communities and trendy places to hang out. I'm still waiting, it's a shame to see such a beautiful place go to waste.

[semillama]

81. There are a lot of artists up there.

Check out the art gallery in Hancock next time you're up (I was raised in Hancock, so that's why I'm familiar with all this stuff). Back in the mid-90s, the indie arts and music scene really was smoking for a while -loads of great bands and artists.

I did hear a rumor that Shute's Bar closed and I really hope that's not true - one of the most beautiful bars around, in terms of the interior.

[Hannah Bell]

40. who cares? there's no reason for the HQ move but to fuck Detroit.

[blue_onyx]

44. Yep...I don't see a benefit

Detroit continues to get the short end of the stick. I hoped that would change but it doesn't look like it will any time soon.

[Hannah Bell]

45. nope, & it's not only detroit. the movement of workers will drive down wages &

displace people all across the country.

make no mistake, assault on the working population is on the agenda. seriously & deliberately.

[AngryAmish]

55. Or avoid the Detroit income tax

"The City of Detroit has suspended the individual tax rate
reduction that was scheduled for July 1, 2005.

Income tax rates for the calendar year 2005 and
subsequent years are as follows unless otherwise notified:

Resident Individuals 2.50%

Non-Resident Individuals 1.25%

Corporations 1.00%"

GM is not paying taxes now, but they hope to do so in the future. I would not appreciate paying income tax to a city where I lived or commuted to.

[fujiyama]

17. I heard Warren as a possibility

It's where the tech center is based. It's one thing to move it out of the city proper, but it would really hurt to take it out of MI.

[damntexdem]

19. What's good for General Motors is good for the ... fill in the blank.

Would they say "goodbye" and make a good buy in Dubai?

[Jack_DeLeon]

29. There is plenty of inexepensive land down south...

with right to work laws.

[Romulox]

63. GM HQ is staffed by White Collar workers (read: no contract.) RTW is immaterial. nt

[SomeGuyInEagan]

36. 3M's CEO was floating that idea earlier this year ...

... bitching about Minnesota's taxes in an interview on Minnesota Public Radio and brought up the possibility that 3M may look into moving its corporate HQ. 3M announced last year that it would be moving its Optical Division HQ to Asia.

[sarcasmo]

47. Is China your answer Fritz? I haven't talked to my Dad yet but he must be foaming at the mouth.

My Dad worked 37 years at GM and you can just hear the sadness when he talks of his former employer.

[raccoon]

51. Where to--Mumbai or Beijing? nt

[Javaman]

53. So let me guess, they are thinking of moving to the Grand Caymans? nt

[Romulox]

62. GM isn't moving, period. nt

[defendandprotect]

71. Obama and Congress should move to take over GM for the good of the nation ....

Take over plant and workers and start them making electric cars --

We can subsidize manufacture and purchase -- both ends of it --

Let's go!!!

THIS is opportunity . . .

And, let me say firmly that if any of the American corporations want to return to

America after their trade agreement betrayals to "harvest slave labor" --

SLAM THE DOOR ON THEM -- !!!

[JohnWxy]

75. the ripples begin to flow outward. as GM does down many others will be affected.

This certainly won't help the reconstruction of the economy from this Republican Deregulation Dystopia. And when GM goes what's going to happen to Ford when the suppliers go under.

GM would have done better if they were located on Wallstreet and gambled everyone's money away.