Unvaccinated kids 23 times as likely to get pertussis, Kaiser study shows

[depakid]

Source: The Oregonian

Children whose parents refuse to let them be immunized against pertussis are at much higher risk of getting the disease than vaccinated kids, a Kaiser Permanente study shows. So-called "vaccine refusers" in the study had a 23-fold increased risk for pertussis, or whooping cough, compared with children who got the vaccine. The study, carried out in Colorado, appears in the journal Pediatrics.

The finding is relevant in Oregon, which allows medical and religious exemptions from school-age shots, defining religion as "any set of beliefs, practices or ethical values." The statewide exemption rate is about 4 percent, but it's much higher in places such as Ashland, where one in four kindergartners was exempted from at least one vaccine last year.

Parents who exempt their children from immunization sometimes claim that they will not be at risk because most of the surrounding children are vaccinated -- a protective phenomenon called "herd immunity." But the new Kaiser study undercuts that belief.

"This study dispels one of the commonly held beliefs among vaccine-refusing parents -- that their children are not at risk for vaccine-preventable diseases," the study concluded.

Read more: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/05/unvaccinated_kids_23_times_as.html

[Dark]

1. Vaccines? Health insurance companies?

:popcorn:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[D23MIURG23]

20. OH NOES ITS TEH PHARMA !!1!!121 n/t

[pnwmom]

2. If the vaccine did NOT vastly reduce the chance of getting an infection,

THAT would be news.

Of course there is a much higher risk of infection among the unvaccinated; that's the whole point of vaccinations.

[hedgehog]

9. I think that a lot of non-vaccinators are depending on the fact

that most kids are vaccinated to protect their offspring. In other words, our kids take all the risk but their darlings are protected with no risk. The study indicates this isn't so.

[TimesSquareCowboy]

3. What about what they don't get, vs. those who are vaccinated?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rosesaylavee]

5. How nice that Kaiser Permanente did such a study...

being the unbiased casual observers that they are.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joshcryer]

26. I would hope that the scientific journal "Pediatrics" tried to be unbiased.

But given how people treated the chemo case here on DU, it's possibly that "Pediatrics" is in fact a scam and any scientists involved in the study are in the pockets of the higher ups.

[kimmerspixelated]

43. DING! DING! DING!

Thanks!

[midnight]

36. Exactly!!!!

[depakid]

38. Actually, if they had bias that would be a good thing here

As their judgment would be based on having to pay either for cost of vaccination (and any compliations arising therefrom) or the costs of treating a kid with whooping cough.

Same holds true with governments with universal healthcare- which of course is a fact that knee jerk hate 'em all folks and anti-vacciners can't seem to (or don't like to) wrap their minds around.

[xchrom]

8. lucky #7

[DesertDiamond]

10. Try google searching "babies who died after being vaccinated" and you may be surprised

I have friends who have been following this subject for years. I myself have gathered my own information. On a first-hand level, I used to do medical transcription and transcribed reports in which babies either became autistic within 24 hours after being vaccinated, or got the very disease they were vaccinated for. But that's the tip of the iceberg. I attended a seminar by a German scientist who had been researching the subjectd for more than 20 years and had volumes of government documents showing the harmful effects of vaccines. She described what a baby's body goes through aftger being vaccinated, and said that there are approximately 32,000 infants who per year in the US who within days after being vaccinated. Not many people are aware that the U.S. has an infant death rate more on par with third world countries than with our more developed counterparts such as England and France. There is evidence that the high amount of SIDS is due to vaccines.

And then there are the other possible side effects later in life, such as ADHD, obesity, depressed immune system.

And who are the leaders of the campaigns to prove vaccines are necessary? Could they be the owners of the vaccine companies? Remember, this is a billion dollar industry. Don't you think they want to protect their profits?

Here's another google search for you: Tamiflu. The harmful side effects, and Rumsfeld's involvement in distributing a batch of Tamiflu in the U.S. that was known to be bad, because they didn't want to lose the money.

And we're supposed to trust these people?

[progressoid]

12. And there is evidence that the chronically misinformed have adverse reactions to too much Google

Now, back away from the keyboard and go watch Good Morning America.

[DesertDiamond]

13. And there is way more evidence that when chronic BSers meet an argument they can't answer

They go watch TV. So, go ahead.

[progressoid]

25. Looks like you're new to this so let me give you a synopsis of how this works

You post some woo woo and then one of us smart-ass science lovers will dispute it with pier reviewed research and facts and shit like that.

You'll post some other anecdotal "evidence" and again some fact loving DUer will poke holes it that.

At some point you'll end up linking to a Jenny McCarthyish blog just chock full of voodoo science. At this point most of us will write you off as a lost cause and move on. You in turn will decide that we are shills for big pharma, or blind to the truth(tm) or some such nonsense.

This battle has been waged a thousand times here. I'm just going to skip all the drama in the middle and move on.


Have fun tilting at your windmills. :hi:

[kiva]

39. What a great synopsis.

But you forgot the shrieks of outrage, the deleted posts, and you know someone will be accused of being a fascist for insisting that vaccinations save lives.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

55. But.......one of my friends, sisters, friends kid got the autism from a vaccine.

[ForrestGump]

78. Pier reviewed research

I've done lots of that.

But, then, I was a marine biologist.

Spent a lot of time on docks around the world, reviewing my research with my colleagues and minions...

[progressoid]

80. Think DU can get a homophone checker too?

:shrug:

[gauguin57]

83. Yes ... we've forgotten this stage in the DU downward-thread-spiral ... spelling correction.

First someone posts anecdotal info, and someone who reads science refutes it, then there's the Jenny McCarthy blog, and THEN comes the spelling correction, and THEN everyone moves on.

[CreekDog]

28. don't confuse "can't answer" with "too stupid to answer"

:think:

[Confusious]

19. And who are the leaders of the campaigns to prove vaccines are necessary?

I don't really follow any "leaders" to prove that vaccines are necessary... There's history. No more polio, no more small pox ( which by the way killed more people in history then all other diseases combined, including the black death)

Personally, I'd like to drop you in a place that still has those diseases for a year, and then you can tell me if vaccines are necessary. I have no doubt you would be a little less ignorant and singing a different tune at the TOP of your lungs!

~Not many people are aware that the U.S. has an infant death rate more on par with third world countries~

Yea I know that, and the US has alot more people without health insurance which covers PRENATAL care!

~reports in which babies either became autistic within 24 hours after being vaccinated~

How can you tell a baby, which does not talk, is autistic? Whos to say it wasn't like that already?

I'm not defending the medical companies, I'm defending my child from getting sick from ignorant people like you!

[depakid]

40. Polio hasn't been eradicated- and thanks to unvaccinated kids- it recently returned to Minnesota

5 Cases of Polio in Amish Group Raise New Fears
November 8, 2005

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/national/08polio.html

[Pavulon]

53. Hey we agree!

these people have lots their minds. Their kids dont die because they have the luxury of everyone else not being idiots. Drop them in Namibia for a year with no money and lets see what they say.

Arguing against vaccination has to be the most ignorant position outside of the nambla people's position.

[CreekDog]

27. Oh well Google said so

:eyes:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

67. lets see what Google says about the Holocaust...

nope... didn't happen - a link I found with Google says so.

[uppityperson]

35. "babies...became autistic within 24 hours after being vaccinated" .Fail

[kimmerspixelated]

44. Good Post Desert Diamond!

[Pavulon]

52. Try "polio africa", hop a plane to the HOA

you people are happy go lucky morons. Protected by those who choose to be responsible. If you people had to live in the fucked up armpits of the world and watch your kids die you would have a different perspective.

Voodoo over science. no excuse, evidence produce (peer reviewed statistically significant studies)it or sit down. That is real information, all else is a fucking opinion.

Back up EVERY bit of your horseshit with information from journals or please delete it. I call bullshit.

[Jennicut]

11. My 3 and 4 year olds have been fully vaccinated AND had flu shots every year and are just fine

I think this fear mongering against vaccines that prevent kids getting sick is ridiculous. My husband had scarlet fever as a kid, I had chicken pox and whooping cough. My kids have had just regular colds and a few fevers here and there. My youngest daughter can get bronchiolitis at times (where the airways are smaller and constrict more) so I'm just happy she has not (so far, knock on wood) gotten anything worse then a cold to bother her breathing.

I am a diabetic and WAY more worried of the girls ending up with it then getting sick from vaccines. And as a diabetic the flu vaccine can be a life saver.

[emilyg]

64. Good for you.

[Donnachaidh]

14. my son had a SEVERE reaction to the pertussis shot

So bad that his leg blew up to the size and color of an eggplant. Needless to say, we DID NOT have the rest of the pertussis shots. And Kaiser Permanente did this study? How much MONEY do they make with these vaccines? And what pharma company PAID for this study?

[Akoto]

16. With respect, and not intending to defend Kaiser ...

Your son may have simply had a severe allergy to something in that particular vaccine. It happens. Heck, I have a severe allergy to plain old raw onions, strangely enough. I also can't take sulfa antibiotics, which are very commonly prescribed to the majority of people, without spending the night on the bathroom floor.

[Donnachaidh]

24. he doesn't have allergies

And even my doctor was stunned at what happened to him - to the point of making sure his records reflected the reaction, and a warning about giving him the pertussis shot in the future. He had NO problems with other shots.

When a doctor flips out over a reaction, I'm more inclined to believe HIM than others.

[uppityperson]

37. Most of what is in a vaccine is not the active part. Most reactions are due

to the rest of it. Having a localized reaction like that, egg swelling hugely, shows an issue with something in the vaccine, but not necessarily the pertussis part. I would recommend that you find out more about that particular shot and put it in your records for your child later in life.

Clinics keep track of the maker, batch ID, etc. You can get that info, which would be a good idea since people move, clinic records sometimes get destroyed after enough yrs, etc.

Does that make sense? Get as much specific info about what he got, not just "pertussis vaccine" , as that phrase can cover a whole lot of different things and each one may be slightly different from the next.

[LeftyMom]

48. How old is your son?

Not at the time of the reaction, now. I have a reason for asking.

[CreekDog]

29. Kaiser doesn't make a dime on vaccinations

for what it's worth.

[Bill McBlueState]

84. right

So Kaiser would stand to make more money if lots of kids got pertussis. Their study shows that vaccination is an easy way to avoid pertussis.

When the finding runs counter to the organization's expected bias, it's one reason to accept the finding.

[lumpy]

33. One of my grandsons had a serious negative reaction to the

pertussis shot. Parents were advised to discontinue the shot as life threatening.

[emilyg]

65. They don't profit from vacines.

[AnneD]

15. As a School Nurse-I see this every day.......

People tend to forget that at the turn of the century one child in four made it past early childhood. Just go out to an old cemetery and you can tell when an epidemic swept though a town. You'll see little children's tombstones. Children tended to die a lot in those days. That is possibly why our agrarian grand parents and great grandparents had so many kids (that and no TV) :rofl:

I saw an increase in Whooping Cough in New Mexico when we were low nation wide on vaccines and I had many CO's (conscious objectors). In fact one of my notorious CO's infant got in from one of his un vaccinated sibling brought the disease home and his 2 month old infant spent some time in ICU struggling for her life. My CO had a major conversion after that.

I here all those argument about thimesol (I give those a smidgen of credence) and all the side effect (an yes, some kids have to be excluded and that's prudent). However-the risks of side effects are less than the disease and that is a fact. All it takes is a breakdown in society of health care and sanitation and disease will once again take as many lives as it use too. Think something like that will never happen. I just have 3 words to say Katrina, Rita, and Ike.
Those that don't vaccinate take advantage of heard immunity. This shows that doesn't work.
Frankly, I wish we could get rid of the disease, but until then, I still ask folks to reconsider and get their kids vaccinated. The vaccines work. I wouldn't trust some websites on the net.

[slackmaster]

18. Kids who have not been vaccinated for dangerous diseases should not be allowed in public schools

Their parents can make other arrangements for educating them.

[Ian David]

21. Agreed! Or into public PERIOD. n/t

[AnneD]

22. We do make allowances ...

for CO. It is their right-as is the right of their children to receive an education. In fact, I think the children are in desperate need of an education and should not be home schooled.;)

This is America-every one has an equal opportunity to make an ass of themselves and to live free-even if it is a short life span. Maybe this is just another means of natural selection.

[depakid]

42. Oregon has a real problem with that

Fundy's on the right are WAY outnumbered by the scientifically illiterate and conspiratorial on the left- but both get exemptions easily.

Personally, I'm in favor of tightening the laws to provide that only a valid medical waiver- or a titer from a duly licensed physician should be ccepted for admittance to public schools. In fact, there are already similar policies in place at Oregon universities with respect to Rubella (thanks to a nasty outbreask in the 1980's).

Unfortunately, that's what it's probably going to take again- a nasty outbreak, with kids suffering, going deaf from measles or dying.

[dana_b]

30. yep

1 in 4... think about that. Of coure there are risks with vaccines. However the immense benefits of vaccines have allowed generations of people to live.

[AnneD]

34. And a generation....

to forget how it use to be.

[llmart]

76. Yep.

I had both kinds of measles and remember well the bout with the German measles where the doctor was deeply concerned about my eyesight. I have seven siblings and we all had two kinds of measles, chicken pox, mumps and all I can think of now is my poor mother! My two children didn't have to worry about mumps, whooping cough, and measles thanks to vaccines. They did have chicken pox though.

[kickysnana]

31. My take is that there is an reaction in some kids and perhaps if they looked

they could find a way to determine those who would react before they vaccinate and adjust the dose, monitor closely and/or skip it in some cases. One of my sons, born prevaccine, never got chickenpox. EVERYONE in his daycare got chickenpox including his brother who slept in the same small room and played with the same toys while he was sick except my oldest son. The procedures, system and regulations that protected us when Salk/Sabin made the polio vaccine have been watered down.

It was easy for the LymeRix vaccine. Research prevaccine prove that Osp that they used created a chronic autoimmune problem in up to 20% of the people with a certain genetic marker. Those people may also be the ones who get "chronic" Lyme. There were two other vaccines that were in the pipeline that did not use that particular osp but people at the CDC had a monetary interest in this one and it was the first one to finish the approval process (may have chicken or egg thing with the approval). I also cannot trust any industry that makes itself lawsuit proof. I can see limiting claims for the greater good but if there is no accountability there will be abuse which in the case of vaccines means deaths.

We did everything but bring pitchforks to try to stop it and then we spent a year documenting and organizing to get it pulled from the market. Still, I am guessing there were thousands who are permanently ill with severe arthritis and nerve problems that have no idea why. Most reactions started within 24 hours but doctors had no working feedback loop and were relying on the system to have weeded out a dangerous vaccine in trials.

Also, there was never any proof that the damn vaccine worked. If you don't have an accurate test for Lyme then how can you know who does and does not have it and how can you know the vaccine works?.

My kids and grand kids ARE vaccinated but I still feel that it is still a game of Russian roulette when it does not need to be. Vaccine makers will never go the extra step as long as they are protected from lawsuits or responsibility for vaccinations that lead to adverse consequences.

[kimmerspixelated]

45. One thing to consider is the fact that

we have better sanitation than in those days. Handwashing all the time. That's what we as the people of modern nations do. A lot of folks were still using outhouses back then, and no hand sanitizers...even the medical community says it- the best defense is handwashing...it has a lot more to do with disease spreading or the lack thereof than is usually noted.

[AnneD]

50. General good sanitation can improve community health overall...

and we don't have problems with some diseases in this country like they do elsewhere. But some things can become airborne so hand washing helps slow the spread but doesn't prevent it.

[kimmerspixelated]

71. True... ..also some other countries have

much poorer nutrition. The combination of sanitation and immune boosting nutrition goes a long way, and they are key. Thanks for being respectful, I really appreciate that!

[semillama]

59. An older friend's grandmother once told him

"You're so lucky that you won't have to bury a child."

Basically saying that parents could count on losing a child back before vaccinations were a matter of fact.

[slackmaster]

17. My mom almost died of pertussis when she was a little girl

Vaccinations usually do what they are supposed to do, and are on balance a huge benefit to public health.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. all these non vaccinators need to travel to counties where vaccines are not available to all kids

and see the results for themselves.

[kestrel91316]

32. If the children of parents who don't believe in vaccinations were the

only ones to suffer and perhaps die as a result of their unvaccinated status, that would be ONE thing. But they have to go and infect those who can't be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons, and those who don't mount an adequate response to the vaccines they DO get.

They are simply a public health hazard. And it's sad, because stupid people are making that decision for them, and putting them at risk due to pure ignorance or near-religious delusions.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. people who don't vaccinate their kids are fucking idiots

It really is that simple.

[kimmerspixelated]

46. It's truly amazing how rude the pro-vaccers are.

Stunning...

[alcibiades_mystery]

49. "pro-vaccers"

You're a moron, and a danger to others.

I'll be less rude when you're not in the medieval mode of threatening the lives of my children. Asshole.

[Forkboy]

57. "pro-vaccers"?

Good lord. :eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

63. These people are clowns

But they're dangerous clowns, endangering their own children and ours.

They have the same intellectual clout as Tom Cruise on psychiatry, or the intelligent design posse. i.e., none. Pack of fucking jackasses.

[kimmerspixelated]

70. Wow! DO you feel better??!!! You are toxic!

It's one thing to disagree, but you really like to make sure someone hears ya, right??? You need to calm down and learn to RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE! ANd I need to place you on IGNORE!!! I will not stand for your verbal abuse!

[alcibiades_mystery]

72. If only you got so worked up over the safety of children around you

Instead, you put children's lives at risk for your stupid pre-modern little hobbyhorse.

You're a fucking menace to society.

[semillama]

60. Is pro-vaccer supposed to be an insult?

Because it seems to me to be a badge of pride, much like the terms "Liberal", "Intellectual" and "Educated."

[kimmerspixelated]

69. NO, I really didn't mean to come across as insulting.

I apologize profusely. People should have the rights to choose,but they shouldn't have the right to be so batshit crazy rude about it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

73. You have no right to protection from ridicule and contempt when you endanger people's children

for your personal stupidities.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

66. I can't stand it when the pro-vaccers look down on my clove of garlic

It is doing a fine job protecting me from the Miasma thank you very much! Stupid elitists with their "medicine"

[ForrestGump]

79. I like garlic.

We should hang out.

[sweetladybug]

58. Some children CAN NOT be vaccinated against certain diseases because of health problems

I have a granddaughter that had seisures as an infant. Her Drs would not allow her to have the P of DPT vaccine.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. I'm speaking, of course, of people who do so by choice, not necessity

Observing the advice of a physician is usually the non-idiot move, very obviously.

[kimmerspixelated]

47. Here's the deal. My daughter had all her shots and STILL

got Pertussis, so just how effective are the vaccines? I would really like to see the stats on it provided by a non-pharma shill, cuz God knows if I go and quote something from Google-land, it will just be disqualified according to the crap I've read just today! BTW, she was ill only a short time, although I know certainly some kids are not so lucky. Still a built up immune system goes a long way!

[AnneD]

51. That happens sometimes....

I think there are several reasons. Vaccines can be temp sensitive in some cases and can lose potency if stored improperly. They are just now studying waning immunity. Perhaps the increase in folks getting vaccines have lowered the 'herd immunity' causing more folks to be exposed as their titer levels drop.

And then there are cases like me-I had the measles (both types) but had the nasty German measles when I was an infant. I was lucky to survive with just lost of a lot of vision as it tended to settle in my eyes (no deafness or MR). Mom kept me blind folded to avoid exposure to light for weeks and she said it was so bad-I didn't try to pull the blind fold off. Yet every time I take a titer it says I have very little. I even got a shot in the Army (I couldn't object-even though I had it). Even with that shot, I have a very low titer. I doubt I will ever get GM and if I do, it may take a wee bit of time for my immune system to kick in, but I'm not worried. I have seen children vaccinated for chicken pocks come in with them. The cases aren't as bad so I know they have some protection. It just hasn't converted into their immune system.

As a Nurse, all I can do is counsel parents and educate them the best I can. I have been very successful. If I try and fail, well, it isn't any skin off my nose, but should we have an outbreak, these are the first folks screaming for vaccine-THAT WE WON'T HAVE READILY AVAILABLE OR THAT IT WILL BE TOO LATE.

I'd rather deal with the consequences of trying to protect my daughter than condemning my child to definite consequences of my refusal to do all that I could to protect her. But hey, that's just me. I just keep thinking-when's the last time we've had a small pox outbreak. I barely remember the last massive polio outbreak. Vaccines have been very effective at protecting children's lives.

[XemaSab]

54. And has your daughter had

measles? mumps? polio? tetanus? rubella? diptheria?

Sounds like the vaccines are working.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. Wonder why she left all those out? Didn't fit the rant I guess.

[trotsky]

68. No vaccine is 100% effective.

That's a big reason behind boosters. You're striking a delicate balance between making a pathogen just virulent to generate an immune response, but no greater. That's why widespread vaccination is key - to make sure herd immunity is at a level where those whose vaccines didn't take, or those who cannot be vaccinated, are protected by the rest of us. Ya know, social contract, shared risk/shared benefit, and all that "liberal" craziness.

Of course many who don't get 100% immunity from a vaccine get partial immunity - resulting in a much milder version of the disease if they catch it. My son got the chicken pox vaccine, but contracted chicken pox in 1st grade. He got 3 sores, never had a fever, and missed just one day of school. The fact that your daughter had such a mild case of pertussis probably means she received partial immunity from the vaccine, meaning it was pretty effective. Better than full-blown pertussis, wouldn't you say?

Still a built up immune system goes a long way!

Sure does! Thankfully vaccines work WITH the immune system so it can generate the proper response when it encounters pathogens in the wild.

[AnneD]

81. Kimmer....

perhaps your daughter had a lighter case because she had her immunization and had some protection. I knew a child that did not have any immunizations and she ended up in ICU for some time. Immunity does wane with time (as we are learning) but the vaccines do help the body recognize the foreign proteins enough to build the appropriate antibodies. In cases of low titers, it may take a while to build enough of these antimicrobial foot soldiers, but I am convinced that your body stores this information whether the information was achieved by immunization or actual infection.

I use my own case to make a point-I had the German Measles (along with mumps and rubeola) as an infant AND had an MMR while I was in the military, yet recently I refused an MMR at work citing my history. They drew a titer and I was low. At that point I stated that my titer was low, not absent and I would there for decline the shot. I signed some papers and that was that. That is informed consent and I will take my chances. I work around kids all day long and even once diagnosed an infant sibling with measles. It does not give me a minutes worry. But having gone through these diseases-I made sure my daughter was vaccinated. The only one I let her make her decision on was the cervical cancer vaccine. Because of the uncertainty of it's efficacy at this point-she declined, but she is aware of what this means for her. I encouraged her, but at her age, it is her choice.

You did the right thing and even though she caught pertussis-you probably saved her life.

[Wednesdays]

61. K&R

:kick:

[Taverner]

74. File under "Duh"

As in, "Water is wet study shows"

Anyone who doesn't vaccinate their kids is guilty of child abuse

[KakistocracyHater]

75. well duh! Vaccines WORK!

where is that excellent thread here that explained "Why We Vaccinate", I've gone to a 19thC cemetary, people don't seem able to comprehend just what is at stake. MMR can be difficult, my sister had a bad reaction, I think they should find ways to alleviate those responses. Polio anyone? Watch the film "Warm Springs" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0423510/

..."A look at Franklin D. Roosevelt's pre-presidency days, from his being diagnosed with polio one year after his unsuccessful bid for the White House as presidential nominee James Cox's running mate, through his rehabilitation in Warm Springs, Ga., to his nomination of Al Smith for Democratic Presidential candidate in 1928. Written by Anonymous

Following an early and promising political career, Franklin Delano Roosevelt is stricken with polio in 1921 at 39 years of age. This film follows his struggle with his paralysis, the refuge he took in an obscure and run-down Georgia health spa, and the family pressure to return to public life and politics. Perhaps the most significant battle he fought with the stigma of paralysis was not in the eyes of others but in his own mind. Written by RosalindLJ"...

[ForrestGump]

77. Vaccinated people unlikely to know what pertussis is, Forrest shows

I had to look it up.

Never had whooping cough. When I was a little kid I thought it sounded like a fun way to be sick, if you have to be sick at all ("whoop! whoop!"), but it turns out that it's anything but fun even if relatively few (at least in the vaccinated parts of the world) die from it these days.

[newinnm]

82. Dont wanna vaccinate your kid

Then dont. But then you should be barred from having anyone else even partially responsible for the medical costs if your kids comes down with the illness.

Riddle me this...how is it that a kid became autistic within 24 hours. How was this determined and by whom.


Such willful ignorance


nnnm

[Bragi]

85. About fundies and vaccines

There are two major groups who are generally opposed to vaccine use: Muslim fundamentalists, and some born-again Christian funamentalists.

I understand the Islamicists concern: they think vaccines are a genocidal plot against Muslims. A far fetched idea, but at least it's somewhat coherent.

So what's the problem that fundamentalists Christians have with vaccines?

I once asked a colleague in public health whether there was a specific scriptural passage that explained why these people opposed vaccines.

he said their vaccine resistance isn't due to a specific passage in their bible.

Their concern is that the bible says that god uses disease and pestilence to punish sinners, so by using vaccines, we are thwarting god's will.

Just savour that bizarre notion.

- B