Why'd Obama switch on detainee photos? (Iraq's PM) Maliki went ballistic ("Baghdad will burn")

[sabra]

Source: mcclatchydc

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama reversed his decision to release detainee abuse photos from Iraq and Afghanistan after Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki warned that Iraq would erupt into violence and that Iraqis would demand that U.S. troops withdraw from Iraq a year earlier than planned, two U.S. military officers, a senior defense official and a State Department official have told McClatchy.

In the days leading up to a May 28 deadline to release the photos in response to an American Civil Liberties Union lawsuit, U.S. officials, led by Christopher Hill, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, told Maliki that the administration was preparing to release photos of suspected detainee abuse taken from 2003 to 2006.

When U.S. officials told Maliki, "he went pale in the face," said a U.S. military official, who along with others requested anonymity because of the matter's sensitivity.

The official said Maliki warned that releasing the photos would lead to more violence that could delay the scheduled U.S. withdrawal from cities by June 30 and that Iraqis wouldn't make a distinction between old and new photos. The public outrage and increase in violence could lead Iraqis to demand a referendum on the security agreement and refuse to permit U.S. forces to stay until the end of 2011.

Maliki said, "Baghdad will burn" if the photos are released, said a second U.S. military official.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/69213.html

[ThirdWorldJohn]

1. So Iraq is indeed a much more dangerous place thanks to Bush/Cheney. n/t

[saigon68]

46. Nah Malaki is our Puppet Mayor of Baghdad

Similar to our handpicked Puppet Mayor of Kabul

He is a Catamite to the present occupants of power in amerika

Since Joementum and Lindsay Graham ( Repuke McLame Supporters) don't want the photos released

Puppet Malaki is trotted out for comment.

[OKNancy]

2. I trust Obama

I suppose that isn't popular to some people here. He is a very smart man and I figure he knows more than I do about the situation.
I also figure he knows more than the doubters here on DU.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

4. It's such a disaster in Iraq, I understand not wanting to make it even worse

I'd be angry about the photos as well if I could be sure I wouldn't do the same thing if I were in Obama's position. Which, thankfully, I am not.

One think I do believe is that a revision to the FOIA laws is not the way to deal with this situation.

[madokie]

9. I'm with you and President Obama

I voted for the man to lead us. I didn't vote for him to give me a supposed right to nitpick him. I trust he will make good decisions based on info that I can never know. President Obama I have your back

[Xipe Totec]

19. Power corrupts

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

That is why we have three branches of government, and a fourth estate.

And even that might not be enough.

It's time for the courts to step in and determine the limits to presidential power.

We elected a President. We did not crown an emperor.

[tabatha]

32. So you want more dead and maimed children?

[Xipe Totec]

45. So you want to shred the constitution?

[saigon68]

47. Don't waste your time arguing with them

They are in a state of rapture

Each and every one of them

[No Elephants]

63. The best way to provoke terrorists is to cover up and refuse to prosecute.

[JDPriestly]

23. We need prosecutions for torture. Even General Petraeus

admitted that issues regarding torture are up to the courts. Only a court can definitively determine whether the Constitution and international law permit Congress or the executive to perform certain acts on detainees and prisoners. It's called separation of powers. It's in the Constitution. There is no way around it. Obama is wrong on his failure to prosecute Bush, Cheney and others who authorized torture.

[caseymoz]

43. I'm afraid at the rate he's going, Obama might be tried for complicity in torture.

I mean, the same law and treaty that outlaw torture also outlaw complicity and accommodation of torture. This is turning into a crisis for both parties.

[No Elephants]

64. The treaty requires prosecution and Obama refuses (so far) to prosecute.

[caseymoz]

71. My point exactly. nt

[sofa king]

16. Please don't do that.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but your statement above closely echoes that of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82py_wk5vE4">Britney Spears about George Bush. Britney may be a doofus; you, on the other hand, almost certainly are not.

It's very unwise to put your trust in any politician, and it's virtual suicide to ascribe some sort of "hidden knowledge" to our leaders. That's what nearly did us in with the last guy.

Unlike those people on the other side of the aisle, our leaders work for us, not the other way around. It requires our diligence and our oversight to hold them to a higher standard than that of the gangsters who robbed us of our futures and our dignity.

And seriously, I'm sorry for calling you out like this, but it is important to me and I hope you will find it is also important to you.

[OKNancy]

20. Barack Obama is not George Bush

That's the only thing that offends me. It must be a very hard life to be so cynical.

[sofa king]

30. Well, we agree on that one!

One of the things that I dearly love about our President is that he does listen. But he listens to everyone, including the evil people--and they are evil--who have a lot left to cover up and conceal. So we have to make sure that he listens to us more closely.

Yes, I am a very cynical person, the result of a couple hard knocks and some very bad decisions on my part. But in the past eight years I rarely went too far astray by expecting the worst of those people, although I consistently undershot how bad the "worst" actually was. Part of the reason is because those guys screwed me, personally, far sooner than they screwed the rest of you. That changes your perspective.

And I'll say this too, just so you know I'm not entirely poisoned. If I had to put my trust in a politician, it would be the Big O. I've never seen a fellow screwed down so tight, and yet so brilliant, whose personal ambition seems to be so closely aligned with a sense of altruism and responsibility and a desire to achieve the greater good. He's a good guy. Let's keep him that way.

[ProgressIn2008]

36. Wanting accountability over personality or party is not cynicism. It's citizenship. nt

[solstice]

54. Well said.

[No Elephants]

62. Yet, in every single court case that was pending, Obama has taken the exact same position Bush took.

Failing to face reality does not necessarily make for an easier life, certainly not in the long run.

[tabatha]

33. see #32.

[No Elephants]

65. See # 63. We're lucky if we don't get another 911 because of Obama's positions on this. It's

one thing for Muslims to say Bushco were bad apples. It's another thing for them to see this as what America wants.

[truth2power]

35. Thank you, sofa king. I totally agree, and I think you articulated it

exceedingly well.

I'm not about to give over my critical thinking ability to anyone, especially a politician. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, so to speak.

That said, I think that entire article is a steaming pile of horse manure. The headline is misleading. Nowhere is there evidence that Obama actually talked to Maliki or that that is the reason he declined to release the photos, other than the narrative presented by the anonymous "official". Yes, there were others who allegedly corroborated the story, but this official carries the tale.

And that paragraph about what the photos show: a woman holding a broom "suggestively"? Nudity? Sure....that'll set Baghdad aflame. I've seen much MUCH worse on Bill Moyers and on the internet.


WE ARE NOT BEING GIVEN THE REAL REASONS.


ETA> I think the photos should be released. The Iraqis already know. It's the American people who need to face up to what we've done.

[primavera]

59. Bravo

A democracy not only allows for, but requires, the active participation of the citizenry. Citizens have a duty to stay informed and contribute their views to the public policy process. The attitude that it's okay to just trust an elected official and relegate one's civic responsibilities to that person is antithetical to what a democracy is all about.

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it is morally treasonable to the American public."

- Theodore Roosevelt

[emilyg]

18. I don't trust any politician.

[Diane R]

25. I trust Obama, too. Completely.

[telmerc]

44. I trust him as well

I am headed back to Iraq in the Spring and I am glad the President is going to censor the pictures, things have calmed down a bit and these pictures would reignite the attacks on US military personnel if they were released.

[psychopomp]

56. I suspected the same

That is, that the photos would make things much more deadly for the US troops in Iraq. Given the tissue-thin stability we have in Iraq, I would say that now is not the proper moment to make those pictures public.

[ShortnFiery]

50. It's a fool's paradise. He's leading this Nation off of a cliff but with a smile and the banksters

secure.

We're being PLAYED and saying, "Thank you Sir, take all of our wealth and give it to the upper 1%." :puke:

[MisterP]

3. soooo we have to deceive the world to prolong our illegal occupation? how--Reaganesque n/t

[caseymoz]

29. Not quite Reaganesque, I think the Iraqis already know about the photos.

They know what's in them. There's a different between that and seeing them in their complete obscene horror. The difference is a matter of the extra emotion they will evoke, by people who won't forget them. Some images just burn into you. It won't just be the Iraqis, I could see the whole Middle-East being rocked by them.

At first I was stunned that Obama wouldn't release them. I thought we could have handled the anger. I don't think so now, especially since Maliki gave the advice.

[caseymoz]

42. I'm ready to recant that.

Now that I found out Obama is hurrying a law through Congress that gives the President authority to prevent images from disclosure from 2001-2009. I stupidly didn't realize what suppressing the pictures would mean legally.

I'm heartbroken with Obama now. He's now following GWB's policies to a T concerning rights. I'm this far (-) from totally abandoning him. He has an "F" for rule of law and rights so far. It's getting to be a disgrace.

[No Elephants]

66. How do you know Maliki gave the advice? Because allegedly two military

people who are anonymous allegedly said so?

this story so does not ring true.

[Eric J in MN]

5. Obama needs to hide war crimes in Iraq to keep the Iraq War going.

The Iraqis can't be trusted to make an informed decision.

The American people can't be trusted to make an informed decision.

(supposedly)

[pleah]

6. What a load of crap. If they didn't go balistic over the Abu Ghraib,

then it won't happen now. And, surprise, surprise, they are quotong a U.S. military official who is not named.

This is bullshit.

[DeltaLitProf]

72. Eh . . .

You really don't think the Iraqis went ballistic over Abu Ghraib?

[JVS]

7. "Iraqis would demand that U.S. troops withdraw from Iraq a year earlier than planned"

Well that would be just terrible :eyes:

[ohio2007]

11. Iraqis actually fear a the if the US leaves.if you follow 'non biased' news sources

The minority fear a backlash from the majority

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoAzSn2OJiw&feature=channel_page

[Wizard777]

8. The extremists can still exploit this even if the Photos aren't releases.

Probably even more so. Because they can paint images in the imagination that are far worse than anything the pictures actually show. Like a broomstick going in one end and coming out the other. :wow: Oh no! We must burn Baghdad to the ground. We know extremists to be well versed in this tactic. So it may be a case of you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. At least if the pictures are released you can confine the outrage to the ground of reality. Then there is that other void. The lack of high level prosecutions for this serving as a tacit approval of the acts. If we're not going to do anything about this atrocity. Then the extremists and Iraqi people will have to. As we all know the extremists will fill that void with their authority. Just like any other torch bearing mob.

[truthisfreedom]

10. This sounds like a CIA psy-ops story to me.

Doesn't pass the sniff-test.

[ronnie624]

55. Here's a couple of interesting lines:

- at least two of them depict nudity; one is of a woman suggestively holding a broomstick; one shows a detainee with bruises but offered no explanation how he got them; and another is of hooded detainees with weapons pointed at their heads.

- and McKiernan, who also were concerned that the photos, while not comparable to the pictures of U.S. guards abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib, could ignite anti-U.S. violence.

But according to Major General Antonio Taguba, the photos include depictions of "an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee" as well as "sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube". He also says the pictures show "torture, abuse, rape and every indecency".

This article definitely reeks of psy-ops.

[Chemisse]

12. When he abruptly changed his mind

I figured there was a reason, although I suspected it was a political bending. I think we need to give him a little credit. He is brilliant, he thinks like a moderate/liberal, and he is privy to information that we can't know.

[Nihil]

51. Your faith is touching.

> When he abruptly changed his mind I figured there was a reason,

> He is brilliant, he thinks like a moderate/liberal, and he is
> privy to information that we can't know.

No problem then. Just switch on your "reality" TV, beam those
corporate adverts straight into your brain and trust that
those "brilliant" people are doing "the right things" for you.

:boring:

[No Elephants]

60. He is not a moderate/liberal. He is not even a moderate, unless you mean moderate

Republican.

[Mari333]

13. Its not up to Obama, the court has already ruled for the release

I will keep contributing to the ACLU.

[Number23]

14. K and R. This should come as no surprise to any thoughtful person

[rooboy]

15. They would only go ballistic if nobody was held accountable.

That's the real point here - the release of the photos would serve no purpose when it comes to prosecuting the BFEE.

[knixphan]

40. ding ding ding!

That's the deal right there.

[tomm2thumbs]

17. but the surge is working, the surge is working- democracy has come to iraq

oh, but it can all come crashing down with some old photographs.

such a stable iraq we claim to have created

definitely 'mission accomplished'

[depakid]

21. Yeah, right. As if there's not enough to burn Baghdad already out there on Al Jazeera

and on the streets evey day.

[bemildred]

22. What utter bullshit. nt

[JNelson6563]

24. Imagine! Putting the welfare of Iraq before

throwing a bone to your voting base. A real grown-up. In every way this guy is so the UN-Bush.

Julie

[No Elephants]

67. No, it's more like "Imagine falling for this unattributed story and not giving a crap

about the right of the people to know what their government has been up to."

Much closer.

[xchrom]

26. it's always somebody else's responsibility.

we 'broke' iraq' -- no one is really surprised by our depravity -- except us.

we'll all survive -- south africa did - so will iraq.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. They say "withdraw from Iraq early" as if that were a bad thing

:shrug:

[JVS]

53. Bring it on

;-)

[mbperrin]

74. Yes, that's what I couldn't figure. "If we release the photos, we'll

have to leave."

So WHY didn't we show the photos in real time and GTF outta there!!!????

Never shoulda been there, never oughta be there another minute.

[EndElectoral]

28. Definition of Transparency- "characterized by visibility or accessibility of information"

free from pretense or deceit; readily understood; frank, obvious, clear.

Barack, you promised us "transparency". No one said it would be easy to do so. It takes courage. To make your decision based on the "fear" of what might happen in Baghdad is NOT transparency, but is equivocation.

Might Baghdad burn? Possibly. Sometimes, there is pain in revealing the truth. Sometimes there are consequences for coming to grips with what our country has done. By not releasing this information, you essentially have capitulated on one of the fundamental promises of your campaign. Transparency.

[Swagman]

31. and we believe this why ?.

[Titonwan]

34. Horse shit.

I'm tired of being lied to by unknown sources. Put a name to the source or fuck off.

[ProgressIn2008]

37. Even if I believed this BS, it's not Obama's decision to make - he's not a little king. nt

[quickesst]

38. Ouch! ........again. This makes how many?

....The difference between the reasoning and motivations of this president and that of the former White House occupant has been apparent from the start. Odd to me are those who fail or simply refuse to recognize it, and why. Thanks.
quickesst

[autorank]

39. That's interesting and also frightening.

Thanks to the illness of Bush-Cheney, all of the troops are exposed.

What dreadful leaders allowed this to take place. Who was in charge of Iraq when this took place?

On a referendum, the Iraqis have consistently said that we should leave soon, 6 months, at about an 80%
rate. If there had been a referendum at any point, we would have been asked to leave completely within a
time frame of less than a year. No remaining bases, just get out. That's the truth.

But the pics, who knows. If Maliki said that, well, damn.

[EFerrari]

41. Maliki said whatever the Pentagon says he said. n/t

[autorank]

68. Thanks, I needed that!

:spank:

[EFerrari]

69. Look at this from Odierno's wiki entry:

Odierno commanded the U.S. 4th Infantry Division (4th ID) from October 2001 to June 2004, during which he deployed the division to Operation Iraqi Freedom from March 2003 to April 2004. Originally, the 4th Infantry Division was designated to enter Iraq through Turkey, though diplomatic complications prevented such a maneuver. Eventually, Odierno and the 4th Infantry Division deployed into Iraq from Kuwait, and despite the diplomatic complications, still executed the most rapid deployment of heavy armored forces in history.

The division did not deploy in time to start the invasion but joined it as a follow-on force in April 2003, attacking toward Tikrit and Mosul, and later played a major role in the post-war occupation. Headquartered in the restive Sunni Triangle north of Baghdad, the division was responsible for one of the most violent regions of Iraq, as remaining elements of Saddam Hussein’s regime struggled to regain control. In a major accomplishment late in the deployment, Odierno’s troops captured Saddam Hussein in December 2003.

Odierno’s tenure as 4th ID commander in Iraq and his unit’s actions there have subsequently come under criticism from several sources. Some have been critical of 4th ID’s belligerent stance during their initial entry into Iraq after the ground war had ceased, arguing that the unit’s lack of a ‘hearts and minds’ approach was ineffective in quelling the insurgency.<5>

In his unit’s defense, Odierno and others have argued that enemy activity in the 4th ID’s area of operations was higher than in any other area of the country because of the region’s high concentration of Sunni resistance groups still loyal to Saddam Hussein’s regime. His unit was headquartered in Hussein’s hometown and this environment necessitated a different approach from those of units located in the more peaceful regions in the south and the north of the country. <6><7>

* * * *

So, isn't Odierno the guy that mishandled the Sunni Triangle for years? Is that a fair thing to say? I wonder what else he did there.

[sufrommich]

48. Is "Why'd" an actual word? nt

[ShortnFiery]

49. Bullshit! Obama's doing for Dubya what Clinton did for Poppy. It's VILE. We must FORCE HIM to

to stay LOYAL to our Constitution NOT "The New World Order." :grr:

[KansDem]

52. You have a point...

It does seem that every Democratic president since Carter spent/is spending considerable energy covering for the Bush Family...

[underpants]

57. I thought Baghdad already burned

SHOCK AND AWE

[w4rma]

58. Maliki is either lying or misinformed. (nt)

[ohio2007]

70. The story that there were MORE photo's available for release first made the news in early May

or late April.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3903928
coincidence?

Imagine what the #'s would have been if the pics were released?
Lower or higher or...
not applicable to the curve?


Dec-08 14
Jan-09 16
Feb-09 17
Mar-09 9
Apr-09 19
May-09 25
Jun-09 1
http://icasualties.org/Iraq/USDeathByMonth.aspx


Discretion in not releaseing the pics was the better choice,especially for those with family in the country

[Wednesdays]

61. K&R

:kick:

[crim son]

73. It's the right move.

Many disagree and have good reasons to do so, but the fact is that the release of torture photos is not in the interest of our national security. Sure, it endangers our soldiers but it also endangers our nation. We have acknowledged the torture; to protect ourselves that has to be enough.