Roeder charged with murder in death of abortion provider Tiller

[sabra]

Source: AP

Prosecutors charged Scott Roeder with first-degree murder in the death of late-term abortion provider George Tiller.

Roeder was charged Tuesday and made a brief court appearance.

The 51-year-old appeared via video from the Sedgwick County jail.

Roeder is accused of shooting Tiller to death Sunday as the doctor served as an usher at his Lutheran church in Wichita. Roeder also is charged with aggravated assault for allegedly threatening two people who tried to stop him.

Police have said it appears the gunman acted alone.

Read more: http://www.ktka.com/news/2009/jun/02/roeder_charged_murder_death_abortion_provider_till/

[musette_sf]

1. "it appears the gunman acted alone"

BULLSHIT

[AndyTiedye]

2. Time to go RICO on Operation Rescue's Ass NOW

[Justitia]

3. Amen. Just another in a long line of "lone wolf" religious terrorists, right?

:sarcasm:

[KansDem]

5. Wait till we waterboard him...

All kinds of info will leak out, especially if we do it 184 times.

We still waterboard, don't we?

[jmowreader]

31. Yes...

We SHOULDN'T be waterboarding, but there are some people for whom I'd be willing to make exceptions. And at the top of the list is Neal the Mule Fucker.

[24601]

58. Nice to know your principals are locked in jello n/t

[damntexdem]

19. Acted alone, like many have 'acted alone' after being programmed to do so.

Think of it as an old story: crusades, jihads, religious wars. George Tiller is just the latest martyr to be cut down in church (or synagogue or mosque) by those who are sure that God (or Yahweh or Allah) wants them to. The most-shocking thing may be that it's in Wichita rather than Baghdad; but don't forget that Dr. Tiller was shot before, and had his clinic bombed. It's just a smaller instance of the terrorism that visited Oklahoma City and lower Manhattan; and one in a long line of anti-choice assassinations that have been perpetrated over the decades since Roe v. Wade. And just think of Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limpballs as the latest Henry II to ask "who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?" Except rather than be overheard by a few knights, they have repeatedly proclaimed it to millions in their audiences. The gunman may have ACTED alone on Sunday; but he was programmed to act that way by hateful organizations and personalities.

My family was visiting my mother in Wichita on this weekend. Her house is only about a mile from the church. We were driving past the church on Sunday and saw a bunch of emergency vehicles. Later found out what had happened. At least we were there to attend the vigil that night with several other people -- and Fred Phelp's crew being kept across a street by the police. We know several people who worked with Tiller or otherwise knew him. And of course he was a major, important source of medical care for women nationwide, as well as an important political player in the pro-choice cause. He cannot be replaced, although perhaps more providers can be encouraged to take on some of the care he provided. It hit us hard; and it will hit millions of women hard across the nation, even if many of them don't know it yet.

[barbtries]

57. wish they'd tell the truth!

we got him, this is easy, next case! the fact is roeder's life and times should be examined in minute detail so that his co-conspirators can be brought to justice. i doubt it will ever happen. as far as i'm concerned, even if he "acted alone" on the day of the murder, he still has co-conspirators.

[onehandle]

4. What? I can give you directions to falafelboy's studio.

He'll be there this evening. Easy as pie.

[FreeCajun]

6. Why isn't he being charged with terrorism?

Terrorism is, according to 18 U.S.C. §2331<25> "…activities that involve violent… or life-threatening acts… that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State and… appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping…."

[AsahinaKimi]

7. I agree...

Totally agree. But I guess, terrorism is only if your terrorist comes from OUTSIDE the United States, um...so they would have us believe.

[ckimmy57]

24. What about domestic terrorism

Wouldn't this fall into that category :shrug: Just wondering.....

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. He's white and a "Christian"

only brown skinned Muslims are terrorists, doncha know. :sarcasm:

[drmeow]

17. brown skinned Muslims

and white extremists who bomb government buildings ... cause the only thing that causes terror in Americans is destroying their government buildings :sarcasm:

[DFW]

21. A real Christian, alright! LOL

Bill O'Reilly is Christian like Pat Robertson is a member of the Black Panthers.

[kfred]

11. Federal Crime?

I think terrorism is a Fed crime - this is a state crime from what I'm gathering. Will the DoJ step in? I think they might need more proof of collusion. It does contrast with the Arkansas murder at the recruitment office. I believe he's been charged with terroristic acts. IANAL and that is a good question you asked.

[Downwinder]

25. Does Kansas have a terrorism rider like Minnesota?

I thought that was standard practice.

[davidpdx]

28. Was shocked they can't even go for the death penalty

But maybe that's a good thing. He knows he's going to rot in prison for the rest of his life.

[defendandprotect]

29. I think it's a good thing because you wouldn't want to turn this jerk . . .

into a martyr . ..

[Downwinder]

45. On the other hand you could identify his enablers and supporters. n/t

[defendandprotect]

50. Yes . . . and that is something very much on my mind . . . but ....

I'm also concerned about how we do it - and by what means.

I put up in one of my posts a link to Fox, thinking of O'Reilly and his
baiting -- and the wonderful interview that Rachel Maddow did with the
former "pro-life" fanatic where he spoke of their "knowing."

Of course I've always felt that was true, but we now have info from the
inside.

I'm thinking about what I want to say to Fox -- and how we can make our
feelings more fully felt by the network. Both re O'Reilly and by
Limbaugh, Randall Terry, etal.

There was also a very important interview on Olbermann tonight with a woman!!!
someone who knew Dr. Tiller. I didn't catch every bit of it -- but at one
point she was making clear what women's groups have been saying for decades -
law enforcement isn't doing its job!

And, considering that Dr. Tiller was asking at the time of his death for more
protection and attacks on his clinic were excalating, I think that's quite clear
not only re local enforcement but Federal enforcement.

I think we all need a way to make a very strong statement about who we think the
"enablers and supporters" are . . . and make clear that we should all be
watching this whole scenario much more closely.

Women's clinics are under a huge threat. Terrorism has pretty much won the day
re abortion!!!

Any suggestions?

[keepCAblue]

33. Muhammad charged w/capital murder PLUS 16 counts of terrorism...why the disparity?

Two men commit murders within 24 hours of each other: Scott Roeder and Abdulhakim Muhammad (formerly, Carlos Bledsoe). One is charged with capital murder for shooting to death a physician in front of a packed church; the other, for shooting to death a U.S. soldier in front of a military recruiting office.

Both suspects allegedly "acted alone"
Both suspects fired shots at or into a public faciliity
Both suspects had prior criminal records
Both suspects had political and religious motives for killing
Both suspects believed their murders were justified or moral, based on the perceived crimes of their two respective targets (Tiller "murdering" babies and the military's past crimes against Muslims)

One suspect was caucasian and fundamentalist "Christian." The other, black and a Muslim convert.

Yet one is charged only with murder while the other is charged with both murder and 16 (SIXTEEN!) counts of committing a terrorist act.

Muhammad: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_re_us/us_recruiters_shot

Roeder: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_re_us/us_abortion_shooting_suspect

[Igel]

49. How's this?

"Both suspects believed their murders were justified or moral, based on the perceived crimes of their two respective targets (Tiller "murdering" babies and the military's past crimes against Muslims)."

You said it in your last two clauses: Roeder killed Tiller because of what Tiller did, to stop Tiller. Roeder tracked down Tiller, said things about wanting to stop Tiller. It was about Tiller. It wasn't about NARAL, it wasn't about other abortion providers. Or, if it was, that info has yet to come out, and since it's not incredible salient it almost certainly wasn't a large part of his reasoning. He targeted a particular person because of what that particular person had done, in order to stop that particular person. That's not terrorism, trying to influence the government or a group.

Abulhakim Muhammed killed the soldier and shot the other one because of what the US Army did, not what these soldiers were accused of doing. There was no accusation that these particular soldiers had done much killing, no indication that he even had a clue who they were as individuals. They had on the right uniform, they were there. They were killed because they were identifiable members of a group who was accused of doing something.

Had Roeder killed an abortion provider in Minnesota saying he did it because of what Tiller did, there's a greater chance you could say he was after a group and then the label "terrorist" that people so want to stick on him could be stuck on him. At least it wouldn't come unstuck immediately.

Muhammed was being communalist, at the very least. Personally, "terrorist" strikes me as the wrong term for Muhammed (or Roeder); Muhammed may have been after a group, but it's unclear that he wanted to intimidate them or change US policy. I'd say that Muhammed did what he did because he considered himself part of a militia that was at war with the US army--that it's not 'at war' the way we usually think of it is beside the point, he went to kill US soldiers because the US soldiers were at war with his 'kind'. That makes him not a terrorist, that makes him a traitor who's taken up arms against the US army on US soil out of loyalty to an overseas group--that we define the limits of the group somewhat differently is lamentable and rathe opaque to most people. Somehow I think this is likely to find greater objection among many people than simply calling him a "terrorist" would.

[keepCAblue]

54. Not trying to influence the government or a group?

You don't think Roeder, in the killing of Tiller, wasn't sending out a tacit message to all doctors who perform abortion, or to the government for allowing abortion to be legal? So what is the difference between a religious extremist who bombs an abortion clinic and one who assassinates an abortion doctor? Same message, just a different target...

Have you been to the Army of God website? Roeder is hailed there as a hero, as are the many others in their long list of those who've committed similar acts of violence against abortion clinics and/or the doctors who legally perform them. I might also add that Roeder reportedly had the name and phone number of one of the directors of Operation Rescue in his car. Keep in mind also that the same forces had tried, unsuccessfully, to assassinate Tiller some years ago and that Tiller's name appeared on a "hit list" being circulated by Pro-life extremists--Tiller has long been a target, not just by Roeder, but by the entire pro-life extremist movement. The assassination of someone for political and religious reasons--be it a specific target such as Tiller or a representative target such as the Arkansas soldier--amounts to more than murder; said assassination is intended by the perpetrator to send a clear message of terror. I assure you, those who work in clinics where abortions are performed are, since Tiller's assassination, left feeling justifiably concerned for their safety -- I would call such an aftermath of fear the direct result of Roeder's criminal actions.

[Dogtown]

9. "Police are equivocating..."

"acted alone" in this instance means there was no accomplice at the scene of the crime. We're meant to think there were no accomplices at all and that he received no help, information or logistic aid in planning this assassination.

He should be charged with federal anti-terrorist statutes, but no-one is interested in a *real* terrorist, just the brown/black people they can entrap, or manufacture a case against.

[musette_sf]

10. Please K&R this thread to stand up for OUTRAGE

against Kansas law enforcement!

no death penalty possibility*
no charges of terrorism
"gunman acted alone" bullshit
no Federal case

i am OUTRAGED!

* i am against the death penalty in all cases, but if the state allows for it and the gravity of the crime calls for it, it should at least be in the charges. the fact that it is NOT in the charges demonstrates depraved indifference on the part of Kansas law enforcement to the fact that this was a TERRORIST ATTACK.

[Quantess]

15. Ironically, anti-choicers are largely in favor of the death penalty.

And "enhanced interrogation" for terrorists...

[happygoluckytoyou]

12. http://www.ms4c.org/ SAYS IT ALL>>>>>>> PLEASE DONATE

[Triana]

23. Donated. They have a FB page too - posting his quotes and vigil dates/times. n/t

[musette_sf]

13. to the Greatest!

thanks all

[Triana]

14. Acted alone MY A$$!

He had HELP. LOTS of it.

[ShortnFiery]

18. That's as plausible as the statement: "The subject committed suicide by two bullets to the head."

:crazy: This ACT was the cumulation of nothing short of "an orchestrated campaign" against Dr. Tiller and serves to TERRORIZE future Doctors and their women clients.

[damntexdem]

20. Committed suicide by two bullets to the head, after chaining himself inside a refridgerator.

And dropping it all into a lake.

[maxsolomon]

16. Operation Rescue & Billo

MIHOP.

[Triana]

22. yep. And our gov't and the authorities - you won't hear a peep from them because..

...domestic terrorism is just A-OK. It's only those damn Arabs we need to worry about. :sarcasm:

[saigon68]

26. K & R

[Trocadero]

27. Prison might finally open his eyes to the real world

[defendandprotect]

30. Think the women's groups some time back tried to use RICO laws .....

they pretty much traced this decades ago to "Christian" militia groups --

and Roeder is a member of the Freemen group -- think that's the name of it.

I don't have the stomach to go check that website!!!

[defendandprotect]

32. Fox and Reilly . . . how many of us have complained . . .???

You can call Fox at 1-888-369-4762

or e-mail . . .

[e-mail]

or use one of these methods . . .

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77538,00.html


And why in the hell does MSNBC/Chris Matthews have Pat Buchanan on every night . . .

at least it seems that every night as I tune in to Olbermann, I'm see Buchanan's ugly

face.

Buchanan is like the GOP . . . sexist, racist and homophobic.

[RoccoR5955]

34. NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

He should be arrested under the terrorist statute, as a domestic terrorist.

[raging_moderate]

35. his "faith" must have failed him

His "faith" must have failed him, because he didn't kneel down to God in the Church where he murdered.... instead he runs away to avoid the earthly consequences of his actions. Another example of pseudo-christianity at work. Jesus didn't teach us violence. God's word does not condone murder.

[kath]

36. Charge him with TERRORISM

because that's EXACTLY what this assassination was.

[kath]

37. Weren't RNC protestors charged w/ terrorism? What.The. Fuck.?

[CTM1978]

38. THIS FUCKER SHOULD BE CHARGED AS A TERRORIST BASED ON RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM, ALSO....

Operation Rescure shoud be treated as a terrorist network as these people are a group of fanatics and no different then those that give out suicide vests in the middle east. O' Reilly, Malkin etc... should be removed from the air as they are DIRECTLY responsible for Tillers death as they painted a big target on his head for every right wing lunatic in the country.

[defendandprotect]

51. Agree . . .

What can we do from here out to make those wishes come true -- ???

[W T F]

39. ask Hannity

If we should waterboard him to save american lives? you never know if more attacks are on the way.:evilgrin:

[winyanstaz]

40. So,,in America now if we THINK about committing a crime like the RNC protesters might have.....

then we are tried as terrorists...just for possibly thinking about breaking the law.....
If our skin is dark and we are muslim we will be also be charged with terrorism if we shoot someone...
But..if we are white Christians and talking heads that conspire to stalk, harass and murder someone in church because of our religious beliefs, ...thats A-ok and it will only get a murder charge.
I just want to be sure I understand how the law works now.

[rpannier]

41. The AP strikes again with more subtle BS

Prosecutors charged Scott Roeder with first-degree murder in the death of late-term abortion provider George Tiller.

How about...Prosecutors charged Scott Roeder with first-degree murder in the death of Dr George Tiller.

[defendandprotect]

52. GOP has made this necessary medical procedure a dirty word. ...they specialize in that . . .

We need to make the GOP and the GOP's "pro-life" movement/network dirty words.

[YOY]

42. White, Between 50 and 70. Divorced (actually) or never married. No kids.

I fucking called it.

Sorry for steriotyping but it's the "FReeper demographic" that goes psycho.

[Dulcinea]

55. I think he has a son in his 20s.

I can't imagine what that young man must be feeling. Apparently Roeder hasn't had contact with his ex-wife or son for a long time. So he would fit the "loner" profile.

[YOY]

56. No kids or never talks to them because "the bitch is evil."

I have said it before or elsewhere.

[MadMaddie]

43. Is this a Federal charge or local jurisdiction?

[jazzjunkysue]

44. Asked for a court appointed attorney. A hotshot will swoop in to take this by tomorrow.

It will be someone with ambition who wants the notoriety. No way do I believe that his will be handled by a newbie with 35 other cases.

[MasonJar]

46. This should be or is a federal crime. The death penalty is too good

for this cretin and his enablers, and I am usually opposed to the death penalty. I also make an exception for Bush and Cheney and their cadre of treasonous war-mongering, greed-infested parasites. My pardon to the natural parasites of nature, who have a place in the scheme of things.

[Downwinder]

47. Put him some place secure, like Gitmo (our own Devils Island).

[chill_wind]

48. K & R. n/t

[uppityperson]

53. k&r, nt since most of the comments say what I am thinking also