Tenn. lawmakers approve allowing guns in bars

[HopeHoops]

Source: AP via Yahoo! News

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Handguns will soon be allowed in bars and restaurants in Tennessee under a new law passed by state legislators who voted to override the governor's veto.

The legislation that takes effect July 14 retains an existing ban on consuming alcohol while carrying a handgun, and restaurant owners can still opt to ban weapons from their establishments.

....

Bredesen spokeswoman Lydia Lenker said after Wednesday's House vote that the Democratic governor expected an override when he vetoed the legislation last week.

Following Thursday's Senate vote, Bredesen, who is a gun owner and hunter, reiterated his stance to reporters.

"I still think I'm right," he said. "I still think that guns in bars is a very bad idea. It's an invitation to a disaster."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/ap_on_re_us/us_xgr_guns_in_bars;_ylt=AiuFV.lHVmomPz6RuzH_jhCs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJ1Z2VrdTcyBGFzc2V0Ay9hcC8yMDA5MDYwNS9hcF9vbl9yZV91cy91c194Z3JfZ3Vuc19pbl9iYXJzBHBvcwMzBHNlYwN5bl9oZWFkbGluZV9saXN0BHNsawN0ZW5ubGF3bWFrZXI

---

"invitation to a disaster" - Ya think?

Why the HELL would you want guns in bars in the FIRST place? And it states that the ban on consuming alcohol while carrying a handgun is still in place. I'm SO sure that will be enforced.

The clock is ticking...

[47of74]

1. Guns + alcohol

Always a winning combination!

[TommyO]

25. Guns + alcohol + the highest rate of depression in the US

Even more winning!

[ensho]

29. kick

its as insane as letting college kids have guns on campus

knowing how many college kids drink until drunk.

[JonQ]

101. Or letting poor people have guns

knowing the rates of alcoholism in the lower classes. Or the irish. Or minorities, knowing how much they love narcotics. Or asians, knowing how bad their vision is.

I'm all in favor of stripping away basic rights based on broad stereotypes. It's progressive.

:sarcasm:

PS; not in favor of guns in bars, where alcohol is a given. Strongly opposed to labeling all 21+ college students as irresponsible alcoholics.

[IndianaGreen]

35. On the positive side, a bunch of rednecks will end up shooting themselves

Those that live by the gun, shall die by the gun.

[TankLV]

64. Ahh - I see future Darwin Awards...

you could be on to something...

just hope they do it all BEFORE breeding...

[panzerfaust]

88. And anyone else who happens to be in the way of their bullets

Truly, it has been decades since I visited Tenn & this makes it likely that it will be decades more.

[struggle4progress]

40. Peter S. Lyde Jr., a gentle big man, dies at 25 (Philly Daily News | 5 June)

By JOHN F. MORRISON
Philadelphia Daily News
[e-mail] 215-854-5573

... Like a lot of big men, Peter was gentle and soft-spoken beneath his bulk. All he wanted out of life was to be a good friend and son, and to have a good time.

But his happy life ended brutally early Sunday, when he was struck by a stray bullet during a fight in a North Philadelphia bar where he was working security.

Peter had never been in the Pleasure's bar at 22nd Street and Ridge Avenue before and he had no involvement in the fight. He and another man had been hired to provide security during the bar's grand opening.

Guns were pulled, shots were fired, and Peter, in the wrong place at the wrong time, was hit. He died shortly after in Temple University Hospital ... http://www.philly.com/philly/obituaries/20090605_Peter_S__Lyde_Jr___a_gentle_big_man__dies_at_25.html

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. Did the shooters have concealed handgun permits?

[struggle4progress]

49. Oh, I'm SURE that's the TOP question Lyde's family and friends are asking themselves today

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

50. Never miss an opportunity to turn someone's tragedy into your personal political soapbox.

[struggle4progress]

51. FACT: "guns+alcohol=real people shot." Policy should follow facts

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. More like Criminals+Illegal Guns+Alcohol. At least according to your stories.

[primavera]

80. You mean, kind of like you're doing now?

[FailureToCommunicate]

103. Exactly right, Primavera. "Pot, meet Kettle"

[friendly_iconoclast]

111. If Lyde's killer didn't have a CHL, then why did you post the story?

The OP being about CHL in premises that serve alcohol and all...

And if the killer did, you should fill us in on the details.

[xxqqqzme]

106. "...Peter was proud of being the grandson of Joe Frazier..." nt

[struggle4progress]

41. Bar Fight Leads to Fatal Shooting (Fox Houston | 5 June)

Updated: Friday, 05 Jun 2009, 7:38 AM CDT
Published : Friday, 05 Jun 2009, 7:38 AM CDT
* DOUG DELONY

HOUSTON - Police believe a fight in a north Houston bar led to the fatal shooting of a man a short time later.

Around 2 a.m. a large crowd inside the Buffalo Bar started fighting before a manager kicked them out, and the fight carried into the parking lot.

That's when witnesses say someone pulled out a gun and opened fire ... http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/090605_bar_fight_fatal_shooting

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. Did the shooter have a Concealed Handgun Permit?

[struggle4progress]

42. Richmond man agrees to plead guilty to felony charges in shooting death case

... Police allege Maish shot Middleton in the basement of Maish's home, 815 S. Eighth St., and then waited for more than two hours before calling 911 on Feb. 14, 2008.

Police said Maish and Middleton had an altercation at a Richmond bar in the early morning hours of the day Middleton was shot. Police said Maish left the bar and went to the South Eighth Street address and Middleton followed him there ... http://www.pal-item.com/article/20090605/UPDATES/90605018

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

48. "Maish in April for the obstruction and unlicensed handgun charges"

[dotymed]

95. I remember this.

I live in Cambridge City..

[Honeycombe8]

60. Oh, Gawd. Even in the Old West, some bars made you check your guns at the door.

Booze and guns. Not a good match.

[primavera]

81. Unfortunately, when it comes to guns, we've devolved since then

We're halfway to our primordial ooze roots.

[K Gardner]

2. Only in Tennessee. Unbelievable.

[HopeHoops]

13. I don't know - Texas seems like another place this could happen

Although I suspect it already is an unspoken rule.

[mbperrin]

20. Nah, licensed or unlicensed, carry into a Texas business receiving 51%

of its income from alcohol, it's a felony.

http://www.txchia.org/txcarry.htm

We sold both our bars when concealed carry was passed, anyway. Way enough guns out there before folks were encouraged to carry....

[X_Digger]

21. Actually, there are many states..

Of course this is for restaurants, and some states have restrictions like you can't carry in a liquor store where alcohol is NOT being consumed, others say you can't carry in a business that derives 51% of income from alcohol, and others say you can carry in the restaurant part, but you can't go up to the bar.

Just goes to show that people don't know what they think they know.

[eilen]

34. Burning question, how easy is it to obtain a concealed carry in these

states?

In NY it is very difficult, almost impossible in some counties unless you are a police officer.

[X_Digger]

38. There are only two states..

that do not have some form of concealed carry (IL, WI). Two states do not require a permit to carry concealed or open (AK, VT). 39 states are 'shall issue' which means they have to grant a permit to someone with a clean record who has passed an examination on the laws of their state and qualified in a life fire qualification (or military / LEO certification.) Nine states (including NY) are 'may issue'- which usually means it's about who you know and if you are a politician or celebrity.

[michreject]

54. Only in 37 other states

Duh!!!

[-..__...]

69. O'rly...?

As primitive and insane MA gun control laws are, carrying in bars/where alcohol is served is allowed.

Fancy that!!!!!

[tanyev]

3. Can you nominate an entire state for a Darwin Award?

[tularetom]

14. Not until the entire state permanently removes itself from the gene pool

(Ya gotta already be dead to receive a Darwin).

Of course I notice this includes restaurants so there may be a fair chance of this happening.

[angstlessk]

4. okay, okay, okay, okay...let me get this straight...you cannot consume alcohol while carrying..

BUT you can carry a hand gun on your hip or if you have a concealed permit in your belt under your shirt...into a bar, but you cannot drink while in said bar? why the f**k go to the bar? I recon if you are going to a bar looking for your enemy who is drunk enough to be shot by you..it's okay?

[HopeHoops]

5. VERY clean summary!

:toast:

[Old Hob]

6. why does anyone go to a bar really?

To drink overpriced beers and watered down booze? I don't think so.

[HopeHoops]

7. To wait for a priest, a rabbi, and a naked blonde with a poodle under her arm to walk in.

Why else?

:beer: Okay, draft beer.

[angstlessk]

16. now THAT was rib tickling funny!!!

[slackmaster]

8. It's a good day for Designated Drivers and AAers who still socialize with their drinking friends

:toast:

[angstlessk]

17. thought it was against AA rules to go to a bar or parties where they drink alcohol?

just askin :shrug: So now bar brawls can be settled by the designated drive with just a shot or two (non alcoholic shots that is..ya know, from a gun)

[slackmaster]

18. Not that I am aware of

It's often difficult for someone who is dealing with an addiction to be in the presence of people using whatever they are addicted to, but as far as I know AA members are free to make their own personal decisions about people they associate with and under what circumstances. Three people I know who are in AA came to my blowout birthday party last year, and there was plenty of alcohol served. One of them left when people started drinking shots of tequila.

So now bar brawls can be settled by the designated drive with just a shot or two (non alcoholic shots that is..ya know, from a gun)

It sounds like you have a very negative and inaccurate preconceived notion about people who are licensed to carry weapons for self-defense.

[angstlessk]

19. well, ya know, people who DON'T shoot people don't get their stories in the news

so, the few I do hear about are all negative, including cops with road rage.

[slackmaster]

23. Millions of people carry weapons legally every day without incident

Incidents in which LICENSED people misuse their legally-carried weapons are very rare.

The state of Texas tracks conviction rates for all types of crimes for its concealed-carry permit holders. The numbers speak for themselves.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm

[boppers]

52. 160 convictions, in one year (2007), in Texas.

Yes, the numbers do speak for themselves. They confirm that CHL licenses are sought by all kinds of people, and that if you cherry-pick the range of a data set, you can count lots of crimes not committed by people with CHL.

...but CHL carriers are still committing crimes *every other day* in that one state.

This helps to puncture the myth that CHL are responsible, crime-free, citizens.

[X_Digger]

58. 160 out of 350k licensees

less than 0.000457% of CHL holders, or a crime rate less than even cops.

TX Licensees were 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public - 127 per 100,000 population versus 730 per 100,000.
TX Licensees were 14 times less likely to be arrested for nonviolent offenses than the general public - 386 per 100,000 population versus 5,212 per 100,000.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/ConvictionRatesReport2007.pdf
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/PDF/ActLicAndInstr/ActiveLicandInstr2008.pdf

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

61. I guess he can't cherry pick that.

[SOS]

115. 9,000 dead every year from alcohol-intoxicated homicide

That's a 9/11 every four months.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa03.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/homicide.htm

Hard to cherry pick that too.

[stlsaxman]

26. if AA rules had stated: "You are hereby prohibited to be ANYWHERE alcohol is served"

I 1) would have told them to go fuck themselves or, 2) never made a living doing what i love- playing saxophone- (because it involved being in a tavern or party) or 3) been banished to the Antarctic with every other recovering alcoholic- (because that's probably the only place on THE PLANET where there aren't people imbibing- and the chances are a penguin would come along with a pocket flask and offer me a drink to "keep warm") and finally- 4) would have ended up dead long, long ago.

I mean come on!?!?- THINK about it.... Obviously, you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Alcoholics Anonymous. Hopefully, you will never need AA. But, if you ever do, let me tell you- it saved my life, taught me how to deal with life on life's terms... like "normal" people do.

I'm not afraid of other people drinking around me- it's not MY problem. Heck- for 99.99999% percent of people who are able to drink- it's not their problem either.

:hi:

[TrogL]

32. AAers can go anywhere they want as long as there's a reason

There are no rules in AA, just some rather pointed suggestions. One is to stay out of "slippery places" unless you have a justifiable reason for going there.

I routinely go to the bar with friends. They're aware that I'm in the program and I'm careful to watch my drink so it doesn't get mixed up with somebody else's.

I also go alone to jazz clubs for the jam sessions and see the big-name acts they bring in.

I do NOT go to bars alone for the sake of random socialization.

[angstlessk]

36. I have certainly received lessons by responding to this particular post!

between reasons to bring a gun into a bar to the rules of AA I have been schooled!

[benEzra]

30. Because a whole lot of restaurants you might want to take your family to have bars or wine lists. nt

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wysimdnwyg]

10. This is just another straw piling on after the fact

Most TN bars have been something to avoid for quite a while now. This law just makes me even happier that I've all but quit drinking and haven't set foot in a bar in several years.

[mikeytherat]

11. We tried this in Virginia under Gov. Macaca. He called it (I shit you not), The Saloon Bill

Just the image you'd want, eh? Wild West, saloons, six-shooters, Yosemite Sam coming through the swinging saloon doors, guns-a-blazing. Thankfully, it was defeated.

mikey_the_rat

[Tim01]

24. Guns are allowed in Virginia in bars right now.

I carried in a "bar" last night. I had to go open carry which is stupid in public, but that is the way it is in Va.

I see open carry fairly often in Va., often in places that serve alcohol. So what.

[JenniferJuniper]

12. Just like the good ol' days of Wild Bill Hickok

He of "dead man's hand" fame.

States' rights, I guess. I'll stay away.

[Lucky Luciano]

15. Good! Now maybe the Freepers can bring their guns and party

and get drunk with their guns...then over an intercom system, we can say, "Look, I see Obama!" Maybe there will be fewer freepers after that? :shrug:


:evilgrin:

[Tim01]

22. So what. Virginia has always allowed guns in bars. It doesn't matter.

[stlsaxman]

27. Can't wait to see Red State Update's Jackie and Dunlap do a video about this!

[Turbineguy]

28. Redneck population control.

Woman, tired of being barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, sends husband to bar. Hilarity ensues.

[Karenina]

31. Reducing the excess American population.

Guns in national parks, on campuses, in bars... Severe economic stress, health problems, poor impulse control, rampant abuse, a culture of hate-mongering...
Here comes another long, hot summer... I do wish you all the best.

[DebbieCDC]

33. Guns in bars....how long till the first Saturday night shootout?

What blinding genius resides in Tennessee.

[truthisfreedom]

37. Idiots. They don't use data to make these decisions. Only politics. Lookin' for votes

in redneck country.

[X_Digger]

39. Smell the irony..

A majority of states already have this or similar measures, you don't hear about shootouts in bars, do you?

What 'data' are you referring to?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. I'm guessing we won't see an answer here.

[MISSDem]

43. It is not only in bars. It is whereever they want to go, ie,

restaurants, parks, etc. If they have a license to carry they can carry it anywhere is my inderstanding.

[Abq_Sarah]

44. If a bar owner doesn't want firearms

In their establishment, all they need to do is post a "no firearms" sign right next to the door.

[Blandocyte]

53. Wonder what the fine is

if someone's seen drinking and an employee sees the gun print and calls the cops. I know that the Chief of Police is very eager to get guns off the street-- maybe he'll encourage owners and employees to report suspicions. "Gun? Oh, no, Officer, it's just a very oddly shaped kidney tumor..."

[X_Digger]

59. If they've posted a 'no guns' sign, it's criminal trespass & loss of license

..if they ask the patron to leave and he refuses.

[Lorien]

55. Why? Because second amendment rights trump every other right according

to at least a few on this board and every Freeper out there, many of whom have been known to say "America was founded on the second amendment" (seriously, I've heard this statement come out of people). Bottom line; there's a lot of right wing bed wetting thumb suckers out there who are so terrified of everyone and everything that they only feel safe leaving the house when armed. Overwhelming fear+ guns+ alcohol....not a winning combination!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. Quote one person here that said that. Come on let's see it.

[friendly_iconoclast]

109. Got any evidence to back up your 'faith enhancing rumor'?

Thought so....

[Endangered Specie]

57. Is this just 'bars' or 'places that serve alcohol'

in NC, you cannot carry into a place that serves alcohol, this includes ALOT of restaurants (and bars). Ironically, the only dining establishments you can pack heat in NC are family restaurants with alot of kids!

I see no problem with this... I mean, you can go into a bar even if you *drive* there, despite the fact that if you consume a fair amount of the products inside its against the law to drive again.

[benEzra]

65. Any restaurant that serves alcohol in any form whatsoever. It's not about "bars"

though the MSM certainly wants people to think it is (and from the looks of this thread, they've succeeded).

[JonLP24]

79. I went to Bud's in Milton, Washington one time

I saw alot of instant DUIs. Cops just crowd the outside of that place and closing time when people got into their cars I saw alot of pullovers. Lota instant DUIs. That was the only bar I ever went to in the state of Washington where Cops monitor the parking lot. Theoratically they could have instant DUIs at any bar in that state.

[TankLV]

63. "La la la la la la la" Nope. Can't hear you....Lal la....

Wow - absolutely NOTHING bad will come of this...

nope...nothing at all...

drunks AND guns...

nice...

[benEzra]

66. You do know this is about allowing the nondrinking to carry in restaurants

that happen to have wine lists and/or bars, NOT about allowing drunks to carry in bars, yes?

From the rather misleading headline, it's certainly understandable how one could get a different impression if one didn't bother to read the article closely. But, alas, fear sells papers and airtime, so you get the "ZOMG DRUNKS CANS CARRY IN BARZ!!" line instead of rational reporting...

[fascisthunter]

67. I´m Convinced that gun Pushers are tapped in the Head

something really wrong with folks who want more guns in this World. Nothing liberal or even democratic about pushing guns on society and using fear to spread them more... frankly, it´s sick.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

68. Who pray tell is doing that?

[smirkymonkey]

83. Thanks, I thought I was the only one.

The sight of a gun fills me with revulsion. It's only purpose is to kill.

[ManiacJoe]

70. Yet to see a news report that gets this correct.

Guns are NOT being allowed into bars, only restaurants.

[struggle4progress]

72. That's not what the governor said: "I still think that guns in bars is a very bad idea. It's an

invitation to a disaster."

Published: June 05, 2009 07:58 am
Tennessee lawmakers approve guns in bars
http://www.chieftain.com/articles/2009/06/06/news/latest_news/doc4a291f62289b8567124104.txt

And I'd bet he, unlike you, actually read the bill

[ManiacJoe]

77. I read the bill, unlike you.

And the law still does not allow guns in bars. Nice try though. You are just the victim of bad reporting.

I cannot speak for the governor, but IF he did read the bill before vetoing it, he certainly did not understand what he was reading.

[struggle4progress]

85. The Todd bill was substituted for the Jackson bill that mentioned restaurants

[ManiacJoe]

90. Exactly.

Unless bars in TN are no longer "age-restricted venues", bars are still off limits to firearm carry.

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB0962

[struggle4progress]

92. No guns allowed unless the under-21 crowd has a fair chance to be shot, eh?

But it seems to me from the bill summary that abandoning House Amendment 1 and insisting on Senate Amendment 1 had the effect of removing the "age-restricted venue" restriction; see: http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/billinfo/BillSummaryArchive.aspx?BillNumber=HB0962&ga=106

[ManiacJoe]

108. It is not phrased well in the summary.

The House amendment removed the 21 limit making bars legal for carry. The Senate amendment put the 21 limit back in. The Conference Committee kept the Senate's "21 limit" version. Thus, concealed carry in restaurants is legal, but carry in bars is not legal.

This is also the way it works in WA state.

[zelta gaisma]

71. Is someone hoping for Darwin Awards to kick in?

[cslinger59]

73. The 'IN BARS!!!!!!!! part is really more hyperbolie then anthing.

The primary reason for the law is to allow those with carry permits to legally carry into restaurants, which 9 out of 10 serve alcohol. One of the biggest safety issues IMO, is if a carry permit holder is required to leave their firearm in a car to legally enter an establishment for dinner. This makes things less safe for everybody IMO.

If one doesn't want to carry a firearm I am all for it, however if they do I am all for that too as long as it is done in a responsible manner. My guess is the general membership here would be shocked at how many folks have and do carry a firearm around them every single day both legally, illegally(by statute not for criminal intent - Think little old lady with a .357 Magnum in her purse while she gets her hair done) and illegally for criminal intent.

At the end of the day there are two kinds of people, those who break laws and those who don't. I could walk around with a belt fed machine gun in the middle of Congress, or a local bar or the local elementary school or the local bank and never so much as point a muzzle in an unsafe direction. There are those, however, who would go on a shooting/robbing/drinking binge but they are not likely the folks who took the time and effort to jump through the hoops to get a permit.

Firearms are dangerous in the hands of those irresponsible or criminal. The problem is those folks are not going to let any pesky laws get in the way to begin with.

Net result of this is basically nothing changes. People will STILL be carrying in restaurants and bars, although with an increase of folks who didn't before because it was illegal and instances will still happen at about the same rates as before.

At the end of the day we would be much much better off if we spent our time and energy putting first responders on the street, making education available to all and attacking the root causes of poverty. Instead we all (both sides) get into a foaming froth that takes attention away from things that would have a measurable effect on crime and saving lives.

I personally believe hard core gun prohibitionists have put more guns on the street, cost more lives and hindered more legislation that could have actually made a difference then the average criminal on the street has. The average person who view firearms in a negative light is generally just ignorant of the facts (not a flame/uneducated) and simply wants the same things most gun owners want, less crime, fewer lives lost. The problem is attacking legal owners and inanimate items is a waste of time and resources and does nothing to reach that goal.

[Strathos]

74. A lot of local police officers fought this bill, but the republicans wanted their names

To harass them and fuck with them. They'll change their minds when people start getting shot left and right.

[michreject]

75. Another poster in a fog

that doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. Welcome to the clueless club. You're not alone.

[Strathos]

86. Who the fuck are you talking to?

Just askin' before I react.

[friendly_iconoclast]

110. I believe he means you

You know, you could show us where a bloodbath like you described happened after a law like this was passed.

[michreject]

114. The OP

Sorry. Most forums, you hit the reply at the end of the thread. I hate this format.

[cslinger59]

76. Not all those local police officers were there by choice

I have been involved in that world and know some of these folks and not all of them were there by choice.

As to the blood in the streets it will be no more and likely no less then it was last July or the July before etc. The statistics just don't back up this assessment. It has NEVER happened.

Violence increases when the economy is depressed and this bears out historically but not because of the passage of more liberal carry laws.

There is always so much hyperbole and it never comes true. Blood running in the streets is as likely as thousands of carry holders holding off thousands of mass murder attempts.

Net net it will change NOTHING on any great scale.

As for "harassing" isn't that what we should all be doing to our elected and public officials when they do things we do not agree with. Of course I mean legally, verbally through protest, writing campaigns, marches etc. How is this different then "harassing" your elected officials because of their stance on Gay rights or the ongoing wars or health care or abortion or the environment etc. The fact is you SHOULD be harassing these folks, all of em. Sometimes I may agree with you, sometimes not, but if you are not happy with them you should make your voice heard and I will raise a glass to you every time you do even if I don't agree with whatever damn fool thing you are yammering about. I would just hope you would do the same when I am yammering about some damn fool thing.

Chris

[Vidar]

78. Even stupider than guns in church.

[Chovexani]

82. But prostitution is still illegal, right?

Come on, Tennessee, don't be half-assed.

Think of all the tax revenue Saloonland could bring in. Think of the Deadwood re-enactments!

[cslinger59]

84. Serious Question of Forum Etiquette

So I don't clearly understand what goes in the gun forum (gungeon) vs. what is allowed in LBN or GD or other topics such as state specific etc.

It seems sometimes they are opened and stay in LBN or GD and sometimes they are moved.

I am just trying to understand the forum etiquette.

[cbayer]

89. This note attached to the top of the guns forum should give you some guidance.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x95935

[slackmaster]

97. Firearm-related topics remain in LBN or GD until the personal attacks get to a certain level

Then they are moved to the Guns forum so the inevitable food fight can continue.

[panzerfaust]

87. Idioten

More and more the Civil War looks to have been a mistake, should have let these half-wits go.

Wonder if the state can be held liable for the inevitable?

[Claire Beth]

91. GAWD! How embarrassing it is to live in such....

a stupid state!

Thank goodness I have plenty of good friends who are democrats!!!!

[dotymed]

93. X FELONY

That is what they used to call it, if you carried a firearm
into any place that sold alcohol. "X FELONIES" were
prosecuted  tougher than other felonies. I grew up in Tn, and
remember when they passed that law. It was a good law, that
made people feel a lot safer. Ft. Campbell, Ky. is on the TN.
line and there are a lot of gun toting PTSD people there. I
remember one, he brought a pistol in a bar and started
shooting the place up. He hit one patron. Luckily, my friends
and I hid on the other side of the wall (it's a law also in
Tn. that a wall must separate a billiards area from the main
bar area). We snuck out the door and got the hell out of
there, before the cops came or we were shot. This
"new" law is insane. Why allow people who are not in
control of themselves, you never know what a drunk will do,
carry weapons into a bar? My daughter and most of my family
still live there. This makes me fear for her safety. Her
boyfriend does stand up comedy in places where alcohol is
served....his progressive perceptions and "in your
camouflaged face" style, will not mix well with armed
rednecks. They are not all rednecks, but there are a lot of
them "red through and through" people there.

[maddogesq]

94. I can hear the Lynyrd Skynyrd lyric as we speak:

"...If you like to drink your whiskey, ya might even shoot your-self."

Sheesh.

[slackmaster]

99. And you disregard the fact that the bill applies only to people who are NOT DRINKING

:argh:

[LynneSin]

96. Oh this is just opening a WORLD of stupid in Tennessee

:eyes:

[slackmaster]

98. Being in California I don't really care, but if I happen to travel to Tennessee,

This will in no way inhibit me from going into a bar or restaurant there. Crimes committed by people who A) have a license to carry a weapon and B) are not drinking (the key point that appears to be lost on about 90% of the people who have responded in this thread), are very rare.

[cslinger59]

100. Grew up in and around Baltimore now live in Nashville

Maryland is a may issue state that basically means unless you are well connected you are not going to get a carry license. I had more trepidation, not fear exactly but healthy trepidation in and around Baltimore at any given time then I have ever had anywhere in TN.

I have been in local establishments where somebody comes in open carrying, hogleg on the hip etc. and it simply doesn't even raise an eyebrow. No screaming, shooting, etc. Just pleasantries and or life going on as normal. As a matter of face most folks don't even notice.

I also have an eye and look for folks who are carrying concealed and it is amazing how many folks are, as most do so in a pretty lax manner in terms of concealment, but again nobody notices, no problems occur.

It is a non issue. No more or less crime is likely to occur due to folks carrying. It just doesn't happen and we have years and years of statistics to back it up.

Crazy folks happen, murders happen, robberies happen, home invasions happen and they will happen regardless of the gun laws in a given area.

Chris

[X_Digger]

112. Baltimore has a murder rate of 36.9/100k, nashville 12.6

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/08aprelim/index.html (new 2008 data)

[sakabatou]

102. Guns and beer

what ever could go wrong?

[cslinger59]

104. Nothing that isn't already and will continue to be a problem

There are irresponsible folks all over doing very dangerous irresponsible things with a great deal of devices.

All this law is doing is basically saying the small number of folks who have shown time and time again to be statistically good doobys to a fault can walk into a restaurant and have a meal if they are carrying a gun. These folks are not going to be drinking, much less throwing cans up in the air in the parking lot to shoot at.

The folks who are going to get hammered and start shootin' the place up are not going to have bothered with a permit, the law, any signs on the front of the building or any other darn thing.

Stupid actions should be a crime. I have the ability to yell fire in a crowded venue at any time. I can scream any number of riot inciting things at any moment. I have that ability, I do not, however, do it because it is wrong, irresponsible and dangerous. Should I have a firearm on me I have every ability to start shooting folks at random......do you think I am more likely to do this they scream fire?

[LibertyLover]

105. This is a really bad idea

I have nothing against guns. I have shot a variety of firearms, from a reproduction Brown Bess musket to an H&K machine gun. I've had fun shooting. My husband is a member of a Civil War re-enactment group and has several reproduction rifled muskets and handguns that he shoots in that context, not to mention a British Enfield from when he did World War II reenactment, as well as a modern handgun. My stepdaughter and her fiance like to hunt deer and goose in season. But to permit guns to be carried where there is alcohol being served is simply an accident waiting to happen. I wonder what the reaction of the legislators who voted for this will be to the first (or second or 12th for that matter) shooting that takes place because someone had too much to drink, got offended at something said or done and decided to take care of the situation by using a gun. I'm guessing it will be "who could have foreseen . . .". I also wonder how long it will be after this law goes into effect that someone is wounded or killed who had nothing to do with the gunman. I'd be willing to bet not long.

[X_Digger]

113. A majority of states already allow this, no big deal

39 states allow this to one extent or another, and there hasn't been a rash of bar shootings by CHL/CCW holders up til now. What makes you think the scenario you suppose is likely to happen, given that we have 39 sets of stats to check?

[county worker]

107. There is a long tradition of guns in bars in Tenn.

My dad was from Tenn. He said that when men went into a bar there they sat down at the table or bar and put their piston on the table or bar in front of them. That was some time ago.

[DS1]

116. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee


ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha