India hammer US on 'No Bangalore'

[EricSmith]

Source: timesnow

"When it comes to outsourcing, it would be to my mind not a right thing, to look at it negatively. As I mentioned, outsourcing has generated more employment in America itself. Indian FDI in America is more than America's FDI in India. Indian investments are more. Globally if you look at the acquisitions and merges in the last one decade, it is India which takes the lead. If we have taken 24,000-30,000 H1B visas, then we have also created huge employment."


Read more: http://www.timesnow.tv/India-hammer-US-on-No-Bangalore/articleshow/4320012.cms

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Outsourcing to India creates jobs for Americans? H1/L1 high tech slave trade creates jobs for Americans? India, Inc. insults Americans' intelligence.

[Deja Q]

1. Could they provide more details as to what sorts of employment?

Especially with so many numbers going down, you bet I'm willing to listen to solid facts that show the contrary.

[Irreverend IX]

31. They've created lots more jobs for repo men and payday loan clerks. nt

[Skittles]

2. offshore = cheap shore

they're cheap fucks and it shows in their work - and no, they DO NOT create employment in America - that is RIDICULOUS

[OhioChick]

8. No shit. n/t

[musette_sf]

3. BULL SHIT.

that is all.

[cosmicone]

4. All this brouhaha over outsourcing is cleverly disguised indophobia

Outsourcing is done to a lot of countries - not just to India, including Kenya, Russia, Egypt, Philippines, Vietnam and China; however, on DU, India is singled out for the barrage of unfair attacks.

Secondly, the infrastructure for doing the work in India doesn't occur in a vacuum. To set up a call center in India requires American made cement, fasteners, heavy equipment etc. The airconditioners are made by Carrier. The computers are made by Dell or HP. The routers, switches and phones are made by CISCO. The software to run all those is made by Microsoft or Apple.

Thus, in a typical $100 million investment in India, some $40 million comes back to the US.

Furthermore, the H1Bs and L1s that come here don't bring their food and housing with them. Most of the money they make in the US is spent on US housing, US food and US consumer goods.

I am simply amazed that some DUers can out-dimwit even the freepers.

[msongs]

5. umm India is the one making threats over outsourcing. nt

[cosmicone]

9. India is not making threats .... just protesting a singling out. n/t

[EricSmith]

6. India, Inc abuses H1/L1 most

25% of H-1B visas to US given by Chennai consulate

MADURAI: One fourth of H-1B visas to the US from India are issued by the US Consulate in Chennai, which caters to the four southern states,
Consul General Andrew T Simkin has said.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Features/Visa/25-of-H-1B-visas-to-US-given-by-Chennai-consulate/articleshow/4319545.cms

[cosmicone]

10. How is that abuse?

Perhaps there are more educated people in that consulate's jurisdiction or more companies headquartered in that consulate's jurisdiction.

[EricSmith]

16. Indian body shops don't hire Americans

Small shops hire 100% Indians. Big shops like Infosys or Wipro hire 90% Indians. Indian body shops discriminate Americans on the American soil.

[EricSmith]

7. atleast 10-12 Indian H1Bs in a 2 bed apt

"Most of the money they make in the US is spent on US housing"

atleast 10-12 people in a 2 bed apt

Not so good things About US Software corporation : Training is so bad, trainer will do really well in basic session classes(about 2 classes) then after that every thing is really bad, will not complete training. Will compell to include fake experiene(5-6 ys min), will say no body need freshers. Marketing sucks, those persons and the owner don't have any idea of real IT field. they will always say, read books and study from internet. I don't think a real IT person wil say to read and study after putting 5-6 yrs of fake experience. Another fun is accomodation. When I was in their guest house, I saw atleast 10-12 people in a 2 bed apt, and among them 2 were girls,most are their H1 consultants. Don't ever be trapped. Owner is abig time cheater, never keep his words, don't know the value of education, will do anything for money, really greedy

Review Submitted on : 10/04/2009

http://www.desicrunch.com/DisplayReviews.aspx?company=US_Software_corporation

[cosmicone]

11. Some companies abuse their employees .....

they are few .... doesn't and shouldn't reflect on everyone who comes on an H1-B visa correct?

Abuses must be stopped and severely punished ... but not everyone abuses the system.

[EricSmith]

15. 99% of Indian IT sweatshops abuse their employees

The Evil called "Desi Consultant"

“If we don’t act now this menace called desi consultants will grow into a big mafia powerful enough to suck the blood of genuine employment seekers in the US”

http://www.sonyvellayani.com/2007/04/evil-called-desi-consultant.html

Take a trip to desicrunch.com

[Deja Q]

19. I agree. I recall reading an article on google...

Defintiely an exception, but should be a rule. I liked how they had a relaxed atmosphere, had employee recreational outdoor games... I don't think anything like that exists in the US...

There probably wouldn't be anyway; it's not "cost effective" to do so for us overpriced yank grunts; just use us and discard us because it's easier to discard than to repair... a disposable society. (how's that for cynicism?)

[treestar]

46. This one is usually reserved for Mexicans!

Get your stereotypes straight!

[nbcouch]

13. your post is full of interesting revelations!

E.g. there is no source for infrastructure manufacturing in India! They don't mix concrete there, I guess. And when you buy a Dell or HP computer in India, the parts and assembly for said computers all come from the US, unlike the ones you buy here - amazing!

Do you have anything like a source for that $40 million to $100 million ratio?

Regarding the spending by guest worker visa holders, you're talking about THEIR hourly rate, which is going to be less than the rate earned by a US worker, plus you neglect to account for the balance of their BILL RATE (I'd estimate it at roughly double the worker's rate), most of which is going to go back to India. I have nothing against the visa holder, who is only trying to make a living as best he can, but the companies like Tata and Infosys and Wipro who send them here have benefited mightily from US foreign worker policy. They and the policy deserve PLENTY of criticism.

[OhioChick]

14. I beg to differ.....

"In India, these decisions have raised hackles. India's IT sector is
seen as a source of national pride - an area where Indians see
themselves as competing successfully on the global scene. Moreover,
the millions of Indians living overseas send back more than $30
billion a year in remittances, making up 3 per cent of the country's
GDP, according to estimates by the International Labor Organization."

http://www.rediff.com/money/2009/mar/07bpo-worries-grow-about-obamas-outsourcing-policies.htm

As for H-1B/L-1's....they're riddled with fraud. "Most" U.S. corporations use India as their outsourcing destination for cheap ass labor....Google is your friend. I cannot believe with unemployment this high in the U.S., one would suggest such lunacy.

There are thousands of articles about H-1B visas and their abuse. Following is a list of key articles about H-1B visas, their abuse, and refuting myths about American IT workers:
· H-1B visas do not create new jobs, InfoWorld, Oct. 25, 2005, http://www.infoworld.com/t/tech-industry-analysis/h-1b-visas-do-not-create-new-jobs-865
· H-1B visa holders are paid less than US counterparts, Hindustan Times, Jan. 13, 2007, http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=cda81c51-7247-4c2a-8e36-2414c5f9686c
· Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers, eWeek.com, April 4, 2007, http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Study-There-Is-No-Shortage-of-US-Engineers/
· Parsing the Truths About Visas for Tech Workers, The New YorkTtimes, April 15, 2007, http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/business/yourmoney/15view.html?_r=1&ref=worldbusiness
· Skilled American's Jobs May Be in Jeopardy Again, Associated Content, April 19, 2007, http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/220331/skilled_americans_jobs_may_be_in_jeopardy.html?cat=3
· The Science Education Myth: Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support, BusinessWeek, Oct. 26, 2007, http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_827398.htm
· Look Into Their Eyes: These people lost high-tech jobs to low-wage countries. Try telling them that offshoring is a good thing in the long run, FastCompany.com, Dec. 19, 2007, http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/81/offshore_profiles.html
· Study Says H-1Bs Aren't the Best or Brightest, eWeek.com, may 12, 2008, http://blogs.eweek.com/careers/content001/h1b_foreign_workers/study_says_h1bs_arent_the_best_or_brightest.html
· A computer science professor's never-ending H-1B fight, ComputerWorld, July 21, 2008, http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyId=13&articleId=9110379&intsrc=hm_topic
· High Rate of H-1B Visa Fraud, BusinessWeek, Oct. 8, 2008, http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/oct2008/db2008108_844949.htm?chan=rss_topEmailedStories_ssi_5
· Government Study Finds 21% Of H-1B Applications Violate Rules, InformationWeek, Oct. 20, 2008, http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/h1b/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=211201998
· Pfizer Accused of Using U.S. Workers to Train Foreign Replacements, e-Week.com, Nov. 5, 2008, http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Pfizer-Accused-of-Using-US-Workers-to-Train-Foreign-Replacements/
· 533,000 Jobs Lost in NOV -- But the Feds Imported Another 140,000 Foreign Workers the Same Month!, NumbersUSA, Dec. 5, 2008, http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/533000-jobs-lost-nov-but-feds-imported-another-140000-foreign-workers
· Expatriate executives making way for local hires, The Economic Times—India Times, Jan. 28, 2009, http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Jobs/Expatriate_executives_making_way_for_local_hires/articleshow/4039529.cms
· While Americans lose their homes, go without medical care, America offers fat stipends to foreign students, excellent jobs to H1B foreign workers, India Daily, Feb. 5, 2009, http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/20501.asp
· The H-1B visa has got to go: With more than 200,000 tech workers on the unemployment line, there's no longer any reason to look abroad for employees, InforWorld—Bill Snyder Blog, Feb. 12, 2009, http://www.infoworld.com/t/tech-industry-analysis/h-1b-visa-has-got-go-258
· Indians involved in major US H-1B visa racket, The Times of India, Feb. 13, 2009, http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/US/Indians-involved-in-major-US-H-1B-visa-racket/articleshow/4124465.cms
· Report finds fraud in 20% of H-1B applications, The Seattle Times, Feb. 15, 2009, http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008746255_h1bside15m.html
· College enrollment in computer science, engineering on the rise, USA Today, March 18, 2009, http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-03-17-engineering-computer-enrollment_N.htm
· It's Time to Overhaul H-1B Visas, BusinessWeek, April 2, 2009, http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_15/b4126063331942.htm
· India's Business Schools Out of Date, The Washington Post, May 3, 2009, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/02/AR2009050200702.html?hpid=moreheadlines
· US: H-1B workers outnumber unemployed techies, ComputerWorld, May 26, 2009, http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133529
· Work Visa Bill Threatens Indian Outsourcers, Finance.Yahoo.com, June 3, 2009, http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Work-Visa-Bill-Threatens-bizwk-15423373.html?.v=1
· Analysis: If N.J. sees H-1B use driving down wages, will Congress? , ComputerWorld, June 4, 2009, http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133957]
· Wal-Mart to Start Outsourcing More to India, BusinessWeek, June 8, 2009, http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2009/gb2009068_435509.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_global+business

[Deja Q]

20. wow. That's a home run of a response... which also proves we are merely reacting to

the media's own indocentrism...

The chap you're responding to -- if he came up with such a list of major offshoring articles that didn't pertain to India, I'd read it with equal passion.

But it's not racism or phobia if everything in the media is concentrating on one country. That's not exactly our fault. We're reacting to the news. The news seems to be concentrating on one country. Maybe those claiming "indophobia" (not "Indophobia"?) would consider who to argue with...?

[EricSmith]

25. Chinese, East European or Filipino don't involve H1/L1 high tech slave trade

except India. India, Inc. has bought off all the American MSM and brain washed Americans with "labor shortage" over
10 years. No country has done that.

[ChromeFoundry]

17. You gotta be kidding me

Carrier Corporation has manufacturing facilities in Gurgaon, India - http://www.carrierindia.com/

Dell and HP manufacture a lot of their hardware in China - http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_24/b3787031.htm
Dell has a manufacturing plant in Sriperumbudur, India (near Chennai)
HP has two manufacturing plant in India. The newest in Pantnagar (2006) and one in Bangalore since 1999.

Cisco has a manufacturing plant in Chennai, India since 2006.

We all know both Microsoft and India outsource a hell of a lot of work to their many Indian offices.

It's amazing to me that you come on here with these half-baked claims and attempt to call the others on this board "dimwits". Go crawl back in your hut and leave the discussions for people that actually know what they are talking about.

[Jim Sagle]

28. Bill Gates, is that you?

[ChromeFoundry]

29. Oh no, not me...

I'm about as anti-Microsoft as they come!

I'm assuming that you are replying to the post upstream from mine? :fistbump:

[Jim Sagle]

30. I lost the thread.

Where's muh car keys, dadgummit? :dunce:

[Deja Q]

18. Except the computers, switches, phones, and air conditioners are not made in the USA either...

Profits come here. The work, regardless of quality, is done elsewhere - with little oversight. I'll try to spare the tangents...

You have some valid points, mainly in that offshoring (it's not "outsourcing", that's just being sloppy) happens everywhere, but don't forget it's the media that's being India-centric. If not the corporations offshoring there. Many of us talk about other countries' products and services that have been recalled as well, and I've had other DUers even criticize me because I've (okay, rarely) mentioned that not all Americans are so bright either, but my excuse to that is any issue with our students is based on other factors, which I'll get to in a moment... Nor does one need to be bright to realize it's about cheapest costs, without regulation or quality control or transparency or responsibility. 10,000 sub-sub-subcontractors CAN be wrong too...

Most of us either talk about America's economy or the variable nature of goods and services made elsewhere. About our working class; not the executive class - some of which are ethical and some are not.

And I've worked with a few dimwits from America too. Indeed, corporations have a point about America's students as I've seen grade averages for two entry level classes I'd taken. For one class, there are real problems. Then again, if these high school grads don't give a bleep about the future, then we have a reason WHY they're not putting in the effort. Cause and effect. It's not always "sense of entitlement", which the media also skews and spins... oh, there are MANY bright American students. There are a lot of people who don't care out of apathy, or didn't understand it the first try. I suppose the ultimate point is how a country's citizens treat each other, and if they will cheat one set of people, they'll cheat everyone else too.

Most of the money made on all this goes to show inflated profits while local jobs keep vanishing. The knock-on effect will ultimately rebound worldwide as well. Wait, that's been happening for some time too.

Most of us want proper globalization and more peoples' standard of living increased. But it doesn't need to be done at the cost of America. If what you say is true, then our housing industry wouldn't be in such dire straits, to say the least.

Just my two cents, for what it's worth.

[EricSmith]

22. American education system produces the most productive population in the world

India education system produces 40% illiterate population, and Indian productivity ranks 126th in the world. Indian
body shops dump their excess population on American soil by faking their resumes.
No wonder our economy is in such bad shape.

[ChromeFoundry]

24. Right you are!

BTW, welcome to DU!

[iamtechus]

23. REALITY CHECK!

In the last two years I bought 2 Dell computers. They were both made in China. All those other products you mentioned, where are they made?? I don't know where all that other stuff is made but it would be stoopid to haul cement from the US to build in India. The same is true for most of that other crap. Routers, switches, phones? Probably China. All that stuff has been offshored.

[PSPS]

26. Sorry, but you're either nuts or work for one of these indian companies

Outsourcing is done to a lot of countries - not just to India, including Kenya, Russia, Egypt, Philippines, Vietnam and China; however, on DU, India is singled out for the barrage of unfair attacks.

India is, by far, the country to which most IT is outsourced today. Microsoft and Dell, for example, have enormous centers there staffed almost entirely by Indians.

Secondly, the infrastructure for doing the work in India doesn't occur in a vacuum. To set up a call center in India requires American made cement, fasteners, heavy equipment etc.

Yeah, sure. "American made" cement? There's no cement in India?

The airconditioners are made by Carrier.

In their Indian plant.

The computers are made by Dell or HP.

They might be assembled in Texas or Nevada. I don't know. But all the parts are from China.

The routers, switches and phones are made by CISCO.

Yes, specifically Cisco Systems India Pvt Ltd. -- their Indian operation.

The software to run all those is made by Microsoft or Apple.

Don't know about Apple but Microsoft has thousands of Indians write code. A friend who works for M$ in Redmond deals with this on a daily basis.

Thus, in a typical $100 million investment in India, some $40 million comes back to the US.

You're just making this up, of course. But even if it were true, having these operations performed by americans located in the US would avoid losing that $60 million figure you made up.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

33. indophobia, bullshit

How about DU FOR ONCE protecting and defending AMERICAN jobs instead of Foreign interests.

[OhioChick]

37. I hear you. n/t

[DainBramaged]

35. And no profile either

I made a decision recently, folks that spew in defense of Foreign interests and have no profile, find themselves on the wrong side of a big red X.

If you are such an expert, move there and work there, but I think that is a foregone conclusion.

[New Dawn]

36. You sound like a "cleverly disguised" right-winger, making apologist arguments for outsourcing jobs!

[gabby garcia]

39. um...

bullshit.

[treestar]

43. Exactly. It is just some IT workers who think they can force the rest of

us to have to pay them more by artificially cutting down on their numbers. The way the AMA makes sure to limit the number of doctors so that their skills stay expensive.

Everybody whines about a "race to the bottom" on the value of their own job, but you can bet they want the cheapest price when they are the buyer.

And everything is computerized now - you can't escape that.

[ixion]

12. outsourcing had depressed US tech wages and taken jobs directly from US tech worker

hands. Period.

[Deja Q]

21. It's technically "offshoring", but "inshoring" and other cutesy terms don't change the meaning...

"A rose by any other name... still has thorns that prick and make one bleed."

[DainBramaged]

32. DU, where the defense of American jobs is considered racist

and imported junk is considered gold.

Some day, when you all realize that there will be nothing except WalMart and Mickey D's unless you wake up, and you find that America has to MAKE and not just consume, it will be too late.

[OhioChick]

38. You're absolutely right. No Jobs = No Recovery. n/t

[New Dawn]

34. Yeah, outsourcing decent paying jobs creates "new opportunities" to work part-time for $6.55 an hour

With no benefits, at McDonalds or Wal Mart (your choice). Meanwhile the billionaires outsourcing the jobs become even more super-rich. Oh, the "joys" of neo-liberal economics!

[gabby garcia]

40. owning our own business..

we get aprox. 30 or more calls a week from "American" businesses looking to finagle $ (we don't have) from us. 99% of the calls are made from call centers in India. I know this for a fact. If I know a business is outsourcing I will have NOTHING to do with them. I have way too many friends who have lost their jobs over this.

[OhioChick]

41. This IT worker thanks you. n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

42. Good for you!

:fistbump:

[treestar]

44. I get these calls too but they are not from India

They are definitely Americans. So unless they've moved to India, they are pestering me from within the US.

[treestar]

45. Maybe it does.

but you do not seem willing to even consider the question.

It is simple minded to assume that in the 21st century any country's economy will never involve international transactions.

[mitchum]

47. self delete