Swine flu: Vaccine is safe, CDC says

[hedgehog]

Source: St. Louis Dispatch

Each year, three flu viruses are included in the seasonal flu vaccine. The swine flu strain started circulating too late in the spring to be included in the 2009 flu shot, so a separate shot was formulated. There are no signs of increased risks of side effects from the swine flu vaccine when compared to the yearly flu shot given to millions of Americans, CDC experts said.


Questions have been raised about another swine flu vaccine that in 1976 was linked to Guillain-Barre Syndrome, a rare nervous system disorder that can cause muscle weakness and paralysis.

Vaccine experts will be watching closely for the syndrome, but aren’t expecting the same reactions. The 2009 swine flu vaccine is different from the 1976 version in that it doesn’t use the whole virus, officials said. Today’s vaccines are essentially “cleaner,” Schuchat said.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/fit-bits/influenza/2009/08/swine-flu-vaccine-is-safe-cdc-says/

[HuckleB]

1. I hope so!

[hedgehog]

2. Scientists know a hell of a lot more about viruses and the immune system than they

did in 1976. As I understand it, older vaccines used entire viruses or bacteria to elicit an immune response. Most of the time, this involved killing the virus or bacteria. It can be tricky to do this properly in production. Expose the batch to too much heat and you destroy the agent so the vaccine doesn't work. Use too little heat, and some of the virus or bacteria is still alive and active, so the vaccine actually transmits the disease.

Nowadays, scientists can manufacture something that looks like the virus or bacteria, bur effectively is a hollow shell. The shell is enough to trigger immunity, but without any working parts there's no danger of accidental infection.

[Demeter]

68. It's Not The Scientists I Worry About

It's the paper pushing pharmaceuticals and govt. types who will do anything for money, including killing people.

Let's see if these researchers get themselves immunized, shall we? AND the CEOS and other high-power types.

[2Design]

3. I had the one in 1976 and not sure I would do it again n/t

[hedgehog]

4. I'm not an expert in designing vaccines, but I think comparing

the H1N1 vaccine to the 1976 swine flu vaccine is like comparing the egg salad sandwich you just made yourself in your own kitchen to the egg salad sandwich that's been sitting in a vending machine two days past the due date. Yeah, technically they're both egg salad sandwiches, but realistically they're very different.

I have a 1976 Chevette that was wonderful back in 1976 and is still in good running condition. Next to today's compacts, there's no comparison.

BTW - I didn't get vaccinated in 1976.

[ohio2007]

24. Once everybody gets vaccinated, then it will be fair to draw a conclusion and compare the two

I can't recall how many people died in that first govt ordered swine flu shot plan but I'm sure the #'s are out there.

So, when are you going to get your government provided swine flu shot ? You freely chose not to take the one available in the 70's ?

[hedgehog]

31. That was then, when Gerald Ford cried havoc based on two cases of

swine flu.

This is now, with over 30 years of vaccine development, when the WHO has declared a pandemic because of the number of cases worldwide.

[Iowa]

35. Hedgehog, regarding your '76 Chevette... you might enjoy this short video.

This lady reminds me of my mother and my aunts.

http://retrorenovation.com/2009/07/02/rachel-and-her-1964-comet-caliente-time-capsule/

[endless october]

5. good. i'll be getting the vaccine ASAP.

i'm a believer in yearly flu shots.

[bobshin]

30. Faith, it does a body good. nt

[tavalon]

6. Well if the CDC says it's safe, they by golly, it's safe

10 years ago, I wouldn't have been saying that sarcastically, but I lost my religion about 7 years ago and was heartbroken to see how many times they lied to me for my own good.

[Milo_Bloom]

7. Another shot to skip.

[Prometheus Bound]

8. Yet she says there are risks.

“The risks associated with this illness are much higher than the risks associated with the vaccine,” said Anne Schuchat, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases.

[HuckleB]

12. Yes, there is always a risk-benefit equation.

[Posteritatis]

65. Well, yeah. Anyone who expects 100% perfect safety out of *anything* is a fool. nt

[teriss]

66. Risks of Swine Flu Vaccine

1) they are only testing reactions for 21 days, after that your immune system is so badly damaged -you will be susceptible to cancer.
2) the ingredients in this shot are 2 unapproved ingredients and it contains aborted fetus cells, aluminum, mercury, the viruses of three bacterias: swine, avian, and human flu.
3) they are growing these strains on diseased monkey kidney cells.
4) they asked the govt. to prevent any law suits from you - the gullible pubic that are being forced to take the pig jab.
5) most of the deaths reported -had underlying causes of death not recorded.
6) you have to take 2 or 3 of these shots -to make sure they kill off your immune system.
7) Baxter the drug company that is making this vaccine -applied for the patents on H1N1 vaccines -One year ago!!
8) the origins of the flu are still unknown, and no one is investigating it-other than unsanitary conditions at a 1 million pig industrialized farm, and they have not been shut down, quarantined or fined.
9) the kid who supposedly got it from the pig-is still alive and well.
10) they are forcing people to have this vaccine against the constitution and you have a right to refuse it.
11) I would not take it or give it to a pregnant mother unless you want birth defects and a baby that will be born with no immunity to any diseases for the rest of its life.(that means its going to be very sick.
12) Avoid this govt. madness and do not get this vaccine -unless you have a luxury health insurance policy like some of the senators -even they are not going to get it.

[OhioChick]

9. Funny how surgeons that I know said they will be by-passing this vaccine for their families. n/t

[Prometheus Bound]

15. And half of British GPs and a third of nurses would turn down the jab.

Half of GPs refuse swine flu vaccine over testing fears
Up to half of family doctors do not want to be vaccinated against swine flu.

GPs will be first in the line for the jabs when they become available but many will decline, even though they will be offering the vaccine to their patients.

More than two thirds of those who will turn the jab down believe it has not been tested enough. Most also believe the flu has turned out to be so mild in the vast majority of cases that the vaccine is not needed.

Last night Government experts criticised GPs who decide not to have the jab, saying they will put vulnerable patients needlessly at risk.

A week ago, a poll of nurses showed that a third would turn down the opportunity of being vaccinated against swine flu.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208716/Half-GPs-refuse-swine-flu-vaccine-testing-fears.html

[StarryNite]

62. But I'm sure it's perfectly safe...

for everybody else. :rofl:

[hedgehog]

38. A prime example of how people trained in one medical field know

so little and have so little respect for other medical fields.

[lagavulin]

42. Quite the opposite, in my experience. Having experience in any field...

...teaches you how little the great majority of so-called "professionals" really know about what they're doing. "Professionalism" in this era almost entirely lies in parroting as well as possible the dominant corporate culture.

I was an investment "professional" for many years. It was clear to me 10 years ago that America was on the verge of financial collapse, that fraud was rampant, that the Fed only knew only one response to our ever-mounting problems which was to flood the system with money, and that the world was secretly desperate to find an alternative to the US Dollar.

What blew me away was how many other investment "professionals" either didn't see this coming or, in most cases, chose to willfully ignore the facts before their face. But to admit it meant having to admit to your clients that they shouldn't be investing with you, that they really should be redeeming to cash, then gradually converting that cash into real asset-investments which might whether a burgeoning series of deflationary/inflationary crises.

But that advice doesn't pay you a commission, and would in fact quickly cost you your job. So it was so much more convenient to ignore the risks in the market -- just as it's far more convienent for the drug corporations/government to ignore the (slight but very serious) risks that vaccines clearly pose, because the profits to be had in the flu-vaccine markets are so huge right now.

(BTW, I left my job about two years before this financial "recession" began, so my conscience is clear. Myself, and those people I knew very personally, cashed out our retirement funds, took the penalties, and we have only benefitted by those choices. And I'm far from the brightest bulb on the tree...I simply didn't have the conscience to lie to either my clients or myself).

[earcandle]

10. No thanks.

[mzmolly]

11. Is there any vaccine they've deemed unsafe?

;)

[HuckleB]

14. At least one, at least initially.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/29/science/sci-prostate29

[mzmolly]

26. Thanks HuckleB. That vaccine was deemed unproven

not unsafe.

"An FDA advisory committee recommended that the vaccine be approved for marketing, but the FDA disagreed, arguing that the study did not provide evidence the vaccine slowed progression of tumors."

It's also not a traditional preventive vaccine, but a post cancer treatment. I will say, I'm glad a pro-science crowd is in charge again however.

[HuckleB]

41. Oops.

Well, I tried. I tried too fast, but...

Cheers.

[mzmolly]

45. No big.

:hi:

[CrawlingChaos]

13. Well if it's so gosh-darn safe...

The manufacturers won't be needing that full legal immunity they're getting from the gov't then. Hmmph.

[Bushknew]

21. Exactly

[Blasphemer]

60. My thought exctly.... nt

[stray cat]

16. Do not get the vaccine!

Safe it for those of us who don't want to get sick :hi:

[diamidue]

34. I hope you get the shot

without the squalene, the mercury, the aluminum or the formaldahyde.

[Warpy]

17. Most of the antivax conspiracy nuts on this one that I know

are also Republicans who claim that the Kenyan born Muslim Manchurian Candidate Communist Hitler in the White House are out to kill them all.

I have a feeling that party will be much depleted this time next year, mostly by people winning Darwin Awards.

However, they're as impervious to facts about this vaccine as they are to any other facts. I say my bit and then move on. Sensible people will listen and antivaxers will not.

[Prometheus Bound]

19. And the half of British GPs who don't want it because of insufficient testing.

Are they all anti-science conspiracy nuts too?

[Robb]

20. Yes, apparently.

The only difference in the vaccine from, say, this year's or last year's standard flu shot, is the strain. The rest of the vaccine is the same, and has had years of testing.

[rubynellie]

52. Absolutely not true

First of all, if that were so, why are they going to require two shots?

More important, it's NOT true. They are putting in an adjuvant called squalene. Google it. Think it belongs in pregnant women and 6 month old babies?

[Robb]

64. Absolutely true.

Read. The CDC agrees with me. They also explain why two shots.

"Google it," indeed. :rofl:

[mzmolly]

27. Absolutely! Anyone who questions anything about a vaccine is an anti-vaccine nut.

:sarcasm:

[diamidue]

33. No kidding.

The arrogance of these "know-it-alls".

[Warpy]

28. There will be sufficient testing by the time it's licensed

I'm sure they'll change their minds.

[Robb]

18. It's a long time to November.

Hope this is not as bad as I suspect it will be.

[starzdust]

22. I just got my flu shot

for the regular variants this fall. My health provider who gave me the shot told me that a local school had already closed due to 30 or more students who came down with the flu. Jesus H... the school year just started. I plan on also getting the two shot regime for the H1N1 when it becomes available. If I don't get the flu vaccine it's a sure bet I'll come down with the flu . The last time I did not get the flu vaccine was back in 2003/04 school year, and yep, I came down with the flu and also went into viral pneumonia and I was sick for several months.

I also got the 1976 swine flu vaccine and nope, did not have any problems nor did I get the flu and I was in undergraduate school living in the dorm.

The type of complications one does not want is the bacterial form of pneumonia called mycoplasma pneumonia. I had it and was sick for 6 months.

[corpseratemedia]

32. one flu I had caused permanent problems

that started shortly after I got well..it could have just been the trigger (??) but who knows..

every year (like you) that I've got the shot I haven't got the flu.

I read the "Russian flu" that hit people under 25 in 1977 was a variant of H1N1 so I'm praying I have some immunity (I think I got that as that was probably the worst flu I've ever had).


I got pneumonia with mono. Sorry you were sick for so long!

[midnight]

23. Forced choice- don't take it!

Not untill they can promise that they have a cure for Guillain-Barre Syndrome!

[Robb]

25. How do you mean "forced"? nt

[bobshin]

29. Uh, same agency that said that large doses of AZT were safe,

in spite of falsified double blind studies that were stopped for "ethical" reasons. Pass.

[hedgehog]

39. The way I remember it, the FDA was pressured to greenlight

AIDS medications without proper testing because people were dying and desperate to try anything. The common sentiment was how dare they fool around with standard testing when people were dying and it was obvious that they had a cure.

[bobshin]

54. Approval by pressure not science. One more reason to trust the CDC/FDA.

Watching how far big pharma and the medical industrial complex will go in the present health care debate, where did that pressure come from? It was obvious they had a cure???? Using a disapproved lethal drug from the early 60's was a cure? Thousands died of the FDA-approved prescribed overdoses, millions more die from the decreased doses- it just takes more time. I know many who died where that factor was totally disregarded in their records.

[hedgehog]

58. We're both right and we're both wrong

When AIDS first hit, there was nothing anyone could do for the infected. People were dying and they and those that loved them kept hearing "we'll have an answer, but first we have to run these trials." The pressure was put on the FDA to skip the trials, after all, we were familiar with drugs that worked, not those that failed. In hindsight, we can see that there were other factors in play. Even at the time, a few questioned why a private company was allowed to patent and profit from a drug that had been invented and developed with Federal money. Looking back, how much pressure on the FDA came from people who were told by a drug company, " we have a cure, but we can't give it to you unless the FDA gives permission."?

Unfortunately, we are in the same situation now. Do we work by the book, follow all the protocols and risk the death of millions, or do we go with what should work? Is the flu vaccine we're being offered radically different from previous flu vaccines? What are the risks of using it, what are the risks of notusing it?

For comparison, look at the science around global climate change. We have a lot of interesting data, but do we have rock solid proof? On the other hand, can we afford to wait for rock solid prof before acting to cut carbon emissions?




http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/archives/M/2/fda1027.htm

http://www.duesberg.com/articles/nhdashed.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=oVTUGOI6p7IC&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=azt+approval&source=bl&ots=QeS1GxaVWP&sig=EmQ6daQTjs2IFAcV4TQpNazjv8U&hl=en&ei=iZiWSqHUHIbBlAf5mZmgDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=azt%20approval&f=false

[lovuian]

36. why has the avian flu been knocked out of the name?

wonder why?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. The avian strain of H1N1 isn't highly pathogenic in humans.

The current H1N1 strain that is highly pathogenic in humans is a swine variety.

David

[Bragi]

40. because it is a H1N1 swine flu virus, not an H5N1 avian flu virus /nt

[Raster]

49. Technically, the H1N1 now has some genetic components of the avian flu virus,

hence, the worldwide alert. Those damned little influenza viruses tend to mutate like, well, viruses.

[Demeter]

69. Commercial Chicken Farms Didn't Like It

They saw how pork sales dropped when it was called "swine flu".

[TheWatcher]

43. .....

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I have to tell you, sometimes, the Best humor comes from the most UNLIKELY places.

Get these guys on SNL.

CLASSIC!

[xchrom]

44. i'll be getting the regular flu shot -- and this one.

i've had some friends come down with h1n1 -- and they were very sick for several weeks.

[Raster]

48. I am a type 2 diabetic. I WILL be getting the regular flu vaccine AND the swine flu vaccine.

The flu doesn't kill you, the complications do.

And, no matter what anyone says, you cannot catch the flu from the vaccine. It is a killed virus. The viral protein spurs your immune system to make antibodies to the viral proteins.

Anyone with compromised immune systems, the elderly or young children should probably get the flu shot. One problem identified with H1n1 is that it seems to strike--and incapacitate--the young and healthy more so that the other risk groups.

[kestrel91316]

46. The vaccines I use in my patients are MUCH safer and more effective

than what was available ten, twenty, thirty years ago. If we can make medical progress in the veterinary field, who in their right mind would think we wouldn't make the same or better inroads in human medicine?

Let the naysayers go without. We'll watch natural selection in progress.

[Prometheus Bound]

47. Yes, yes, of course, we're all going to die because we are not True Believers.

[CrawlingChaos]

51. I really hate this attitude

As if people don't have perfectly rational reasons to feel uncertain and not to completely trust the authorities or the drug companies. Yet we get these all comments along the lines of 'good, you're too stupid to live, go Darwinize yourself.' I guarantee you people are going to be torn and stressed out over this - I'm not at all clear on why they're deserving of your scorn.

A huge number of doctors and healthcare workers are planning to refuse it. You know something they don't?

[HuckleB]

53. Unfortunately, none of us are all that rational in reality.

This is a wonderful book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Science-Fear-Shouldnt-Ourselves-Greater/dp/0525950621

[CrawlingChaos]

56. If I understand the premise of that book...

...which I admit I have not read, it's that we tend to fear all the things least likely to harm us (terrorism, murder, etc) and ignore the most imminent threats to our well-being (poor diet, car accidents, etc) - is that about right? A boatload of statistics and now-familiar stuff about the lizard brain (the most overexposed part of the brain in the publishing world of late, IMO). I would tend to blame the corporate media for that more than the lizard/limbic brain, but I'm no expert.

So does the author include drug safety concerns in the category of supposedly overblown and irrational fears? Because if he does, that seems, well, debatable to say the least. Just taking inventory of the people I know personally, I can think of a handful who've been harmed by legal, prescribed drugs (someone whose heart was damaged by fen-phen, another whose liver was damaged from statins, a new seizure disorder from SSRIs, etc). It seems to me there's a whole lot of nonchalant pill-popping going on in this country, and maybe drug safety is something we should be paying more attention to, not less.

I'm also thinking about all the vets who were made seriously ill by the anthrax vaccine (many thousands if I'm not mistaken). I normally get a yearly flu shot, but what with the revelation that so many doctors are planning to refuse it, the wholesale legal immunity the manufacturers are getting and my serious lack of faith in the authorities involved, I'm thinking twice about this one.

[HuckleB]

59. In terms of drug safety, it can certainly be improved.

There is always a question on the other side. How many people would be hurt by avoiding a medication vs. how many will be hurt by taking it, ...?

It's a great book. I highly recommend it.

[bobshin]

55. If you are indeed a doctor, exactly the reason why most people will never

take your and other medical doctors' advice.

BTW, medical doctors have the shortest lifespan of most other professions. They must take the medicine they've been hoodwinked into prescribing to others. Unnnatural selection already in progress...

[muriel_volestrangler]

57. they said "...in the veterinary field ..."

so you know they're a veterinarian.

Talkign of which, where did you get the claim "medical doctors have the shortest lifespan of most other professions". Was it from a vet, by any chance?

Maverick veterinarian Joel Wallach is selling video and audio tapes titled Dead Doctors Don't Lie! proclaiming that physicians have a life expectancy of only 58 years. This sends the message that doctors are so wrongheaded that they themselves live significantly shorter lives than the general population.

It is not clear where Wallach gets his data, but it is a lie. Physicians have long had life expectancies that are longer than the general population. Goodman <1> reviewed reports on physician life expectancies in 1925, 1938-42, 1949-51, and 1971. His study covered the 1971 population of 344,823 physicians, and the deaths of 19,086 from 1969 through 1973. He found that both male and female physicians had greater life expectancy than the general population.

The American Medical Association's Center For Health Care Policy published data on the life expectancies of U.S. medical graduate physicians by specialty in 1988. <2> It showed that the life expectancy of physicians is somewhere between 75 and 88, depending upon the age and gender that one chooses.

Wallach also claims to have been nominated for a Nobel Prize in 1991. According to the Nobel Committee, this would be impossible for him to know because the names of nominees are confidential. Wallach could have been "nominated" by himself or one of his admirers, but that would not make him a serious candidate. The Nobel Committee denies that Wallach has ever been a legitimate Nobel Prize nominee.

http://www.ncahf.org/nl/1996/3-4.html

[StarryNite]

63. Kestrel do you believe

in annual vaccinations for dogs and cats? Or do you go with the titer testing route? What about the 7 in 1 vaccinations? My understanding is that the Rabies vaccine is one of the most problematic. But I know a lot of veterinarians are saying that dogs and cats are often over vaccinated. What's your take?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

50. in the 1970s I had a flu vaccine - I had a worse flu a few weeks afterwards

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. I fully support the decision of the conspiracy theorists to not take this life saving medicine.

Furthermore, in solidarity, I urge the conspiracy theorists to forego any life saving medicine whatsoever.

You cannot be too careful.

[TwixVoy]

67. FOLLOW THE MONEY

A $5 million dollar advertising campaign is going to launch next month for this vaccine. And a fucking drug company has patented the damn virus. That says it all.