Poles, Czechs: US missile defense shift a betrayal

[SpartanDem]

Source: AP

WARSAW, Poland — Poles and Czechs voiced deep concern Friday at President Barack Obama's decision to scrap a Bush-era missile defense shield planned for their countries.

"Betrayal! The U.S. sold us to Russia and stabbed us in the back," the Polish tabloid Fakt declared on its front page.

Polish President Lech Kaczynski said he was concerned that Obama's new strategy leaves Poland in a dangerous "gray zone" between Western Europe and the old Soviet sphere.

Recent events have rattled nerves throughout central and eastern Europe, a region controlled by Moscow during the Cold War, including the war last summer between Russia and Georgia and ongoing efforts by Russia to regain influence in Ukraine. A Russian cutoff of gas to Ukraine last winter left many Europeans without heat.

The Bush administration's missile defense plan would have been "a major step in preventing various disturbing trends in our region of the world," Kaczynski said in a guest editorial in Fakt that also was carried on his presidential Web site.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iWR-3rEXusvVBWlZ-74ZbnZbKlZAD9APQO8O0

[pampango]

1. I believe neither of their parliaments had approved the missile basing yet anyway.

It's kind of hard to say you were stabbed in the back when your own government hasn't yet approved of it.

[atreides1]

2. I guess they didn't get the memo

The missile defense was to be used against an Iranian missile threat, not a Russian one.

At least that's what the Russians were told!

[Igel]

10. And yet there's no contradiction.

There are two distinct issues involved, and conflating them does everybody a disservice. This isn't nuance.

1. Missiles pointed at Russia. Nice for Russian propaganda, and Bear and Putler might even believe it. Might even be true. But not so dreadfully relevant for Central Europeans, except to the extent that such a belief justifies having Russia move Iskander missile batteries up against the Poilsh borders and state that under a first-strike scenario it would make Poland and Cesko prime targets. Of course, this idea scares the dickens out of Czechs and Poles who assumed that in the event of thermonuclear war they'd be left out, so it's a kind of intimidation that works for many. (The fools. In the event of a ground war, it would have been precisely those countries that would have been fried with tactical nukes first, and Russia wanted the Warsaw Pact to make sure that in the event of a war with Russia it would be Poland and Czechoslovakia that bore the brunt of the fighting. Then again, they know that when Russia intimidates, the threat is real.)

2. US-staffed NATO installations on Polish and Czech soil. They could make military-grade shoelaces, for all the Poles and Czechs care. The installations are also nice for Russian propaganda and chauvinism--they can cry betrayal, since the US apparently promised that these countries would never seek or be granted admission to NATO (the same administration that said that Russia had too much land and too many resources to be allowed to keep them, IIRC). They can scream they're threatened. Russia's and Russians are notoriously paranoid about even a whiff of such things--centuries of depredations by Mongols, miscellaneous Muslims, Swedes, even Poles and Germans can do that to you; on the other hand, their response was an urge to pre-emptive empire, which they did rather well in some respects--don't seek equilibrium, seek control. The rhetoric continued even in the '90s and early '00s, we just didn't really care because, well, we really don't care. But Poland, after centuries of depredations by Swedes, Germans and Russians (they managed to stop the Muslims before they did real damage to Poland) are also a bit paranoid, mostly about Russia, the more recent threat. They rather foolishly believe that having US troops based on their territory would somehow bind the US to honoring defense commitments and doing the decent thing. Like there's precedent for that.

[pampango]

11. Nice detailed post with lots of info. Not just a one-line zinger. Thanks. n/t

[Demeter]

3. Don't Wory, We'll Figure Out Some Way to Make Up for the Loss of Income

and hopefully, it will be of major BENEFIT to all parties and the world.

Ain't gonna study war no more...

[thereismore]

4. These are NOT the Czech PEOPLE speaking. They are ecstatic about Obama's decision! nt

[nyy1998]

5. 2 countries out of all of Europe dislikes this idea

I'd take that ratio any day any time. Most of Europe is happy, Russia is happy and the US still benefits. Not bad.

[shotten99]

6. Oh please....hardly the start of Red Dawn II.

NATO isn't collapsing. What a crock of shit.
They do realize that if they're attacked, we're obliged to respond in kind.
If they get nuked, we're lobbing ours in return.
What a pile of sensationalist garbage

[Metta]

7. You can always trust the AP when a majority of people are against this.

The Czechs, at any rate.

[bemildred]

8. Sorry guys, tools get used. nt

[L0oniX]

9. All those fuckers wanted was the money it would bring to their countries.

[Igel]

12. Not so much money.

But they seriously don't like Russia, and have pretty good grounds for not liking Russia.

They would accept a US-staffed NATO installations that produces Pez and Pez dispensers strictly for export to Nepal, and be happy about it. Then again, Russia would continue to go on and on about NATO expansionism, and probably circulate rumors that the Pez dispensers were secretly anti-tank weapons to be smuggled to the Georgians.

I mean, consider the history. Occupied by Russia for 150 years--with Polish not allowed as the language of instruction for a while. Then, when it broke away as the result of the October Revolution, Lenin sent troops in to reclaim it for the Russian empire that his government would control, and Budyony's troops were bloody and bloodthirsty--and hailed as heroes by Lenin and his crew. Then in the '30s Stalin and Hitler connived to divvy it up, and Stalin all but annexed half of it (while saying they were they to "help" their smaller Slavic brethren) and then killed off the officer corps. After the war, Stalin made sure that Poland was a buffer, so that if there was another war Russia would be able to defend itself on Polish soil. Not only did it ensure that, but it also picked up Poland and moved it 100 or so miles west--part of the land-grab that it considered "just compensation", aka spoils of war, a way of putting the noxious west a bit farther away, *and* a way of punishing Poland by not only reducing Poland's size, but making 2 million or so Poles move just a couple of years after WWII ended. (It also punished Germany.) Russia then made sure that it was a damned good ally. It helped put down insurrections in Poland, and stipulated that Polish troops put down the insurrection in Czechoslovakia (lest they become too buddy-buddy). Afterwards, Russia was offended that the Russians actions and intent weren't properly appreciated.

As for Russia, they still worry about Poland repeating the events that lead to the "Smutnoe vremya", the "Time of Troubles" 400 years ago; Russian control over Poland is somehow still justified by that. Russia also has a bit of an anti-Polish campaign: Last year, Poland was responsible, in part, for WWII because it didn't appease and cooperate with Hitler's just demands; this year, Poland was responsible, in part, for WWII because it appeased and cooperated with Hitler's diplomatic corps. Ribbentrop? Eh. That pact is still denied, from time to time. This makes a lot of Poles a bit nervous. Not so much younger ones, or those who rather enjoyed having the USSR there.

Now consider how we meddled in Latin America. We can understand anti-American sentiment there, but we can't understand anti-Russia sentiment in Poland.

[Vidar]

13. Who cares what a few foreign neocon politicians have to say?

[TheLastMohican]

14. The only people who feel betrayed are rabid Likudniks

The phone lines between the rabid Likudniks in Jerusalem and the cabal of neo-con crazies in Washington must have been sizzling all day today.

Krauthammer, Kristol and Kagan, having received their orders, will now join failed incompetents like Kramer and trot out the obligatory "Obama is wrong" AIPAC/JINSA/PNAC/American Enterprise Institute party line.

[On the Road]

15. I Don't Understand the Sentiment

if nuclear missiles started flying, Poland and the Czech Rep. would have been right in the middle of it. They're better off without them.

[Arrowhead2k1]

20. They were thinking these bases would bring in some money and jobs,

and were probably hoping that this would prop them up as a more significant European country. They went with us into Iraq just to further this goal afterall. Now they're beginning to realize how much they've wasted by going along with the Bush admin.

[Alhena]

16. So 12 missiles were going to protect them from Russia? Right

[pampango]

17. The missles wouldn't protect them, but the presence of American soldiers would.

Like in Korea, the presence of American soldiers seems to make host countries think that, should an invasion come, the US would be more likely to come to their aid rather than say "Poland is not worth it." The theory is that it makes invasions and wars less likely. Poland probably looks at South Korea and says "Give us some of that."

[izquierdista]

18. Not Poles and Czechs

All I hear quoted in the article are tools and wrecks. It will be nice when Shrub's foreign sycophants run out of spittle.

[Arrowhead2k1]

19. Oh boohoo Pooland.

They thought that joining us in a criminal "coalition of the willing" with Bush and Co to wage an illegal war would score them brownie pionts with this nation forever? Haha, oh how the cookie does crumble. Even though scrapping the missle defense plan in their country actually had nothing to do with betraying Poland, I'm certainly glad that they're upset about it. Serves them right.