ABC News Investigation: The Blueberry Children

[sabra]

Source: ABC News

Children as Young as 5 and 6 Working in the Fields of Large Blueberry Grower; Walmart Severs Ties, Feds Levy Fines

Oct. 30, 2009—

Walmart has severed ties with one of the country's major blueberry growers after an ABC News investigation found children, including one as young as five-years-old, working in its fields.

The children were discovered at the Adkin Blue Ribbon Packing Company, in South Haven, Michigan, this summer by graduate school students working with ABC News as fellows with the Carnegie Corporation.

The full report on the investigation airs tonight on Nightline.

A five-year-old girl, named Suli, was seen lugging two heavy buckets of blueberries picked by her parents and brothers, aged seven and eight.

An 11-year-old boy in the Adkin fields told the Carnegie fellows he had been picking blueberries since the age of eight.

The owner of the company, Randy Adkin, was once featured on a Walmart billboard advertising his "locally produced and locally sold" blueberries.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/young-children-working-blueberry-fields-walmart-severs-ties/story?id=8951044

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

[KansDem]

2. Well, at least they weren't found on slag heaps...

Boys salvaging coal from the slag heaps at Nanty Glo, Pennsylvania. 1937. They get 10 cents for each hundred-pound sack.

...yet

[24601]

136. Or working a phone bank....

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/television/1859029,CST-FTR-people02.article

Lorenzo's story: Condemned by family ties to a life of Chicago politics....

"The Chicago fifth-grader proves just how much in the new documentary "By the People: The Election of Barack Obama," where he is filmed making campaign calls...."

"Lorenzo's father, Jose Rivera, has worked in Chicago government for many years and is currently employed in Sen. Roland Burris' office. For years, he's taken his son to political events and community meetings."

"Lorenzo's pretty much grown up in that environment...."

[YOY]

3. Damn "liberal media"...

n/t

[Brickbat]

4. "Low prices" always have a cost.

Follow the goddamn money.

[mikelgb]

5. All I can think is "Violet you're turning violet, Violet!"

"It's always the blueberries"

on a serious note: poor children, I hate when people make the excuse that they would be in worse shape if they didn't have the money from their labor and "we" pay them more than they could make elsewhere. Sad.

[leftyladyfrommo]

6. I did all kinds of work like that when I was growing up.

I always kind of liked it. It made me feel like I was helping. Made me feel good to work hard and get really tired. Course, we weren't child slave labor - just children of a woman who grew up on a farm. Up at six and on our way before it got too hot in the afternoon. We didn't think anything about it.

[joeglow3]

13. I, too, did all sorts of work growing up.

My father did side jobs (build decks, tear off and re-shingle roofs, etc.). I spent many 10-12 hour days working on it. He always paid us and I consider myself a better person because of it.

I will interested to see if these were child slave laborers or kids helping out parents much as I did.

[No Elephants]

16. Were you 5 at the time you worked 10 to 12 hours and did he pay you minimum wage? ould he have fed

and clothed you, even if you didn't work for him? Did he assign you tasks that were not appropriate for your stage of physical development? Was he breaking the law by having you work for him?

[Cleita]

60. Where does it say they worked 10 to 12 hours?

Berries usually have to be picked early in the morning before it gets hot. Otherwise they are squishy once they heat up. The longest we worked in the field was five hours. We were there at five in the morning and were usually done by ten if not even earlier. I mean I agree with you that it's not really right but do get your facts straight. It makes your argument more credible. I still believe the problem is with the field worker parents being underpaid.

[barbtries]

i do too

it occurred to me that their parents probably prefer to have their children with them rather than to leave them unattended, and i would be shocked if it turned out that they made enough money to be able to pay for day care.

[AlphaCentauri]

114. I bet those children helping their parents are going to be better citizens

than many city boys hanging around their video games and gangs

[fasttense]

128. And full of pesticides and covered in rashes too. A win win for all. n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

135. of course thanks to the US consumer who wants more for cheaper n/t

[MattBaggins]

139. Yeah child labor from dawn to dusk instead of school

would be so much better for kids.

DU really has become a gathering place for morons.

[fasttense]

127. You're so full of it. It is very easy to pick berries in the heat of the day.

I've done it and they don't get squishy. The only reason you do it in the morning is because it's not so hot and easier on the picker. If you get the picked berries in the shade right away, there is no problem picking in the hot afternoon sun.

[MattBaggins]

138. Did you watch the video?

The kids said they start early in the morning and often work as late as 9 at night.

[joeglow3]

76. Answers

"Were you 5 at the time you worked 10 to 12 hours"

-This started at probably 10.

"and did he pay you minimum wage?"

-Probably not. I don't know what it worked out to, but not a lot.

"Could he have fed and clothed you, even if you didn't work for him?"

-Yes. He took on the side jobs to pay for a private college prep high school for us. It more than paid off.

"Did he assign you tasks that were not appropriate for your stage of physical development?"

-Maybe. I was up on a roof ripping of shingles. However, I have a 6 year old who helped me tear down my shed last year and when it was done, he had more energy in him than I did.

"Was he breaking the law by having you work for him?"

-Most definately.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

19. Working on a family farm is different from working on a stranger's farm. There were very good

reasons for our child labor laws and also very good reasons why they didn't apply to helping your own parents. Still are.

[MUAD_DIB]

69. Nicely put. Yet people still have a problem understanding this simple logic.

You don't employ children.

[fasttense]

134. This is not a family farm setting. It's an industrial farm setting.

You have quotas, hourly and daily. If you don't make your quota, they fine you and cut your pay. There are only a few breaks allowed and if you stop moving before the break is due they yell at you and threaten you with firings.

You have NO FREE Time for anything including watching your children being dosed by Pesticides drifting from the next field.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

144. well said

[Bo]

22. ..AS well I also did all kinds of work on the family farm in Latin America

During the summer when there was no school of course, and I earned extra money.

[superconnected]

37. It's nearly November and it's cold outside.

Where is a 5 and 8 yearold going to go with this money - take their bf/gf to the movies?

[Stainless]

64. Summertime

The article said the children were observed working during the summer.

[MUAD_DIB]

70. 5 years old...

[katkat]

24. me too

My brothers and I and my cousins worked from as young as I can remember just about - cutting lawns, digging quahogs or clams for sale, washing cars, cleaning houses, and so on.

That's not to say that there aren't real abuses with children working, but the idea that it's horrible for kids to work is in part responsible, I believe, for the moral decay of the gimee types we see today. If they'd been working since they were kids, they wouldn't be spending money they didn't have with idiot mortgages and giant credit card bills.

[No Elephants]

33. As far as I know, NO ONE ever said it is horrible for children to do any work at all under any

circumstances. So, that is, to put it as nicely as I can, a straw man.

And, blaming moral decay on protecting children from abusive working conditions is beyond the pale.

[MattBaggins]

140. Are you as schocked as I am to find folks defending child labor?

Just when I think people on DU couldn't get any stupider up pops a thread about exploiting children and the "back in my day we walked up hill to school both ways" decide that people actually want to hear their nonsense.

[alfredo]

40. I was raised on a farm too. We raised chickens, I was the main egg stealer and

poop scooper. We had fruit trees. I would climb them and shake or pick the fruit. The peach trees were my favorite.

At 10 I got my first paying job, I was a gopher for an auction house. I then started working the tobacco fields.

[janet118]

77. I've picked blueberries and apples in Maine

and, believe me, it would help being very small picking (non-tree) blueberries. I liked the work. It was outside and you could eat as much of the product as you could stand. You make your own pace because you get paid by quality and quantity, not by the hour. With following disclaimer: no missing school, no bullying, no harmful chemicals and no union-busting, I say it's cool. Besides, the article makes it sound like the whole family picked together.


(edited for another disclaimer)

[noiretextatique]

102. you think child labor is "cool"?

i really have to stay away from DU for a while.

[Maine-ah]

132. hell, they close the schools up in the county during potato season.

that said, no...I don't agree with child labor in this particular situation, but yes, up here in Maine you'll find kids in the blueberry fields and the potato fields.

[MattBaggins]

141. The whole family picks together and this sounds wistful to you?

Moving from region to region just to pick produce for pennies a bucket, working 12 hour days, who knows when they see a day off or go to school. Wow where can I sign my kids up for this?

[fasttense]

131. We are talking industrial farm settings with quotas, fines for failing to meet quotas.

pesticide and chemical fertilizers drifting onto workers. It is nonstop, heavy work with no time to be watching children and looking out for their safety. A walk in a field to pick a few berries is NOT what these children, some as you as 5, are being forced to do.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. but they have such small useful fingers!

When one of my parental units traveled to Pakistan, she found a silk handmade rug. She crowed about how great it was to see 100 small children, making knot after knot. "They were so small and cute!"

Then I asked about the slave labor, the wages, and early onset arthritis, etc. Her response was, so what? I got this GREAT RUG. And it looks like they have so many kids to work. Where else would they go?


This in part explains why parental units and I avoid politics these days.

[derby378]

9. You have no idea...

...how much I feel for you after reading that. I'm shaking my head in disbelief. :hug:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

34. and she's the librul one of the two.

mi padre and I did not speak all of 2005. He claimed I was a traitorous liberal who supported terror. I responded that he supported bush, and that was enough for me.
He still thinks that Obama is a communist, and Bush will be regarded as a great man.

[NewJeffCT]

56. People that think Obama is a communist or even a socialist

wouldn't know a communist or socialist if one came up to them & bit them in the ass.

[Jackpine Radical]

109. Hell, I'm a socialist

and I'll be damned if I'd bite a wingnut on the ass or anywhere else for that matter. Personal hygiene, ya know.

[voc]

115. +1 succinct. nt.

[derby378]

96. I was at this counter-rally in Dallas two months ago...

...where all of us Democrats were marching in support of meaningful health insurance reform, and there was this on teabagger on the sidelines who started chanting "Commie, Commie, Commie" just loud enough for us to hear him as we passed by.

I try to remind myself that insider every Republican, there's a Democrat trying to get out. It happened to me - I used to be a Dittohead a long time ago. But I realize that there are some people out there who just won't listen no matter what.

[onager]

32. Same in Egypt.

Where tourists are invited to visit "carpet schools." i.e., carpet FACTORIES.

(I spent most of the past 4 years living in Egypt.)

As you said, they encourage tourists to watch the kids hand-weaving complex knots. Of course, after the tour, tourists are even more encouraged to buy their shoddy, overpriced carpets. I noticed that the biggest rugs were priced around $10,000 U.S.

The Official Story: The "carpet schools" claim they provide schooling 3 to 4 hours a day for the kids, along with room and board. All the kids are either orphans or very poor children who would otherwise be on the streets.

Maybe, but I sure got a weird Dickensian vibe from the one and only school I visited as part of a tourist group.

Story from an Actual Egyptian: for years the Carpet Schools refused to hire girls, because they were considered dumber than boys.

Eventually one creative entrepreneur brought in a girl, and soon found she was even more productive. According to the Actual Egyptian, this was true for many reasons: partly because of smaller fingers, but also because girls paid more attention to the job and didn't goof off as much.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

39. yikes.

but that squares with what is happening to America. The haves and have mores continue to pound the rest of us down. It is not enough simply to be ultra rich, for the ruling class, they actually (some of them) enjoy seeing the rest of us squirm and suffer.

Years ago, there were some psych tests done on college students. They found out just how little it took for a normal, sane (college?) kid to turn into a sadist. Under the guise of running a mental process test, the tester (who was secretly the test subject) found him/her self of how much of a electric shock they could deliver to the testee (who was in on the real experiment). Amazingly, there was no difference between sexes, but the findings were still nasty. Even the most altruistic would act in a sadistic manner, much to their own surprise.

That is why civilization is so much harder than power politics. And that is why we can never let down our guard when it comes to protecting civil liberties and human rights.

[Jackpine Radical]

110. The Milgram studies.

Infamous.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

123. BINGO. Thanks.

[No Elephants]

54. Females have more control over their hands and fingers than males.

That's why so many go into eye surgery, now that medical schools are finally letting them in.

At least, that is why my opthamalogist (a female) told me. Could not confirm on a quick Google, though.

And you'd never know it from my typing!

[Cleita]

8. When I was in high school we picked boysenberries alongside the

migrant workers. Since they couldn't afford babysitters they brought their children with them who helped out. It seemed like a solution. This was in the summer and the children did go to school when it was in session. I guess since we were fourteen and fifteen years old at the time, we could have been considered children too, but we did have our parents permission and I think they liked the idea because they felt it would keep us out of trouble during our summer vacation.

[No Elephants]

27. You cannot compare working a summer job when you are 14 or 15 with

working at age 5. At that age, you would have been eligible for a work permit and your parents may even have gotten one for you.

And, there is a difference between bringing your children to work because you do not have a babysitter and letting them play (or even play at picking berries with you) and loading down a five year old with two heavy buckets of berries.

[Cleita]

45. Well, the children did work.

We got 35 cents a crate and it took most of us about an hour to fill one. Really fast pickers couldn't do it faster than in half an hour, but with their children helping they could knock out a crate in fifteen minutes or less. For us the money was extra to spend on records and clothes. For the migrant workers it was their income and support so if they could make $1.40 in that hour with the help of their children, it made a difference. Nowadays, the agricultural workers in my area are unionized and make about $10 an hour, so I never see kids out in the fields with them anymore. Of course back in my day in the early fifties, Caesar Chavez hadn't organized the field workers yet. It seems the real problem is with the workers being underpaid that they are forced to bring their kids to help out so they can make enough money to live on and support the family.

[Gormy Cuss]

59. The blueberry company featured pays by the bucket

and Brian Ross makes the point that if the adults were paid an hourly wage there would be no incentive to have their kids working in the fields.

[Cleita]

61. That's absolutely right.

Also, with all the hullabaloo about the price of food going up if you pay the workers a living wage, it turned out not to be true. When Chavez organized the grape pickers in California, the price of grapes and wine did not go up significantly because it's the demand that sets the price.

[fasttense]

129. Bringing children to the fields to help their parents is not really a solution to anything.

Maybe paying parents enough, you know above minimum wage, so they don't have to bring their children to the fields would be a real solution.

[AngryAmish]

10. At least there were no bears in the fields

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_whZWNilxIz8/SjjbltR6b-I/AAAAAAAABtg/ZNesP_8s1SI/s320/Picture+24.png

[plantwomyn]

11. Oh the nostalgic anecdotes!

Those of us who worked on land owned by a family member during the summer can not and should not compare our experiences with the children in this story. In many instances, these children will become adults who labor in those same fields being paid by the bucket, not by the hour. They do not sit at table with the family and take of the bounty of the land and their labor as we did. Their meal consist of what little their meager wages can provide. While we popped berries in our mouths as we picked, every berry they pick goes in the bucket. We did not have to pick food that we couldn't eat or afford ourselves. Who among us landowner kids went home hungry after picking all day? I would wager NONE.
Unfortunatly empathy is something you can't teach.

[warpigs]

21. Where should they go then?

Where should the children of migrant workers be when their parents are working?

[Gormy Cuss]

44. It's not a matter of where, it's a matter of what they should be doing.

The owner could provide a babysitter on site. The owner can allow the children to stay with parents in the fields if there's no safety hazard. Either would benefit the owner because the parents would have an added incentive to work there rather than in other fields.

What the owner can't do is let them work the fields.

[harmonicon]

86. school, camp, or daycare (nt)

If the parents can't afford it, it shows that they are being underpaid.

[warpigs]

98. School yes, the rest I hope was sarcasm. EOM

[harmonicon]

99. no, it wasn't - check the top of the screen

This is a website frequented by dirty liberals. If a worker's wage cannot cover child care, that wage is too low. The alternatives are to increase wages or provide the services from the government funded by tax revenue.

[peacetalksforall]

93. I worked starting about 10. Picking strawberries. We got the going wage.

It was not because we were struggling, my father had a good job. Some of the picking was in our own gardens and sometimes we got to do it for people who had bigger gardens or possibly even a business. Lasted a few days or weeks. I loved it because I had my own money and I thought it was a neat task. When I was about 12 I baby sat for a family with six children because the income the father brought in wasn't sufficient to cover their obligations and the mother had to work. I got the going rate.

The line to draw here is that this work for a large commercial company is not just about hiring adults. This is all about the intent and policy and enforcement of policies that this corporation had laid out regarding children.

Knowing Wal-Mart policies, we know that they can suck the money out of suppliers.

Did the blueberry company allow the children around and the parents put them to work?
Did the blueberry company hire the kids unofficially?
If they knowingly allowed them to work, did they stipulate ages and wages and write them down and get signatures?

This is not about what most of did as kids. Corporations/suppplier enetities weren't involved. That may not be true for all kids. But, most of us should not compare our youth to the youth in this situation.

[Gormy Cuss]

106. At age 10 it was probably legal for you to do so.

That's the part some other posters don't seem to grasp. Children can work in the fields at a younger age than they can work most other jobs, but it's still limited by age parameters that would exclude a five year-old and her seven and eight year-old brothers.

The family may be eking out a few extra dollars this way but it's the grower who benefits the most.

Minimum Age for Non-hazardous Work

In jobs that are not considered particularly hazardous, the FLSA sets the normal minimum age for employment in agriculture at 14 years, whereas in every other industry the normal minimum age is 16 years.

In agriculture there are three exceptions to the normal age 14 minimum age:

(1) A child of ages 12 or 13 may work where a parent or guardian (a) consents to the child’s employment or (b) is employed on the same farm as the child.

(2) A child under age 12 may work where (a) the child is employed by a parent or guardian on a farm owned or operated by the parent or guardian, or (b) the child is employed, with the consent of a parent or guardian, on a small farm as defined in the FLSA.

(3) A child of age 10 or 11 may work as a hand-harvest laborer for no more than 8 weeks in a year.

[WriteDown]

12. Photo of one of the children...

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

26. Again with the racism?

You are an odd duck.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robb]

68. On what planet is Blueberry Muffin racist?

:wtf:

[WriteDown]

88. The moons of Pastry 7?

:shrug:

[Lance_Boyle]

28. Strawberry Shortcake is racist?

Put down the pipe, man - you're seeing things what ain't really there.

[WriteDown]

31. I'm glad somebody got the reference...

I was starting to feel outdated.

[greiner3]

14. I believe it is by Jack London;

Stories of child labor in and among the factories of a century ago. One short story in particular tells of a boy around 5-6 who gains a following because he can run a loom faster than anyone else, I guess you'd call it a fore-runner of the Guinness books type. Anyway, this child's mother tells him that he is doing it for the family and all that rot. The story ends when the boy turns an age and vows never to take up work like that again. I wish I had better facts but maybe someone with better 'Jeopardy' skills can fill this in. What I wanted to say with all this is, "Screw anyone", Democrat, republican or troll, who says that child labor is ok in ANY form.

[happyslug]

43. The Great McGinty addresses that issue.

Brian Donlevy plays the "Great McGinty" in a comedy about politics as he work his way up from a bum who voted several times for the same candidate at various polling places and then works his way up the political ladder to be governor of his state.

Now, he is corrupt throughout the process but you see how he moves from a low man who voted many times illegally, to be a member of City Council who does shakedowns. After a Scandal (he was NOT involved in) Switches parties (both parties are run by the same political boss) to become Mayor who then as Mayor just directs the shakedown victim to the city council member who the shakedown (while appearing honest himself). He ends up as Governor. At that point his wife (Who he marries on his way up the political ladder) convince him to fight against child labor. He tells his wife all that they would be missing, the graft he can earn as Governor. She still fights to end child labor, and then Brian Donlevy does a great scene, he describe how it is NOT that bad fir child to make candy, it is a simple process and then described it coldly just like someone who did it as child. His wife just stares at him as he does his discribtion. In many ways, the corruption of youth by forcing them to work as oppose to get an education produces someone like the Governor, corrupt for that is all he knows for he had been a victim of a corrupt corporate culture.

The Governor then agrees to fight against child labor (He is basicaly a good man, but made corrupt by living in a corrupt society), but he tells his wife all the graft can NOT be done, they will have to live on the salary of the Governor alone. His Boss yells at him for that decision (But ends up backing him) knowing it will cost a lot. Then as Child Labor law is about to pass a Scandal is uncovered involving the Governor and his Boss. A scandal neither knows anything about for they were innocent of it (They had done other grafts but none of that was brought up, to many people with money were involved in those grafts to be usable against the Governor). The Governor is then impeached and Jailed. The Boss and the Governor quickly determines that they are being railroaded by big money who OPPOSE they change in child labor law. The fix was in and they were the patsies. The Governor and the Boss escapes with the help of some of their other Political buddies who skip to South America, where we find the Governor working as a Bar Tender at the beginning of the Movie.

This is a much better Political Movie then anything else I have ever seen. It is a comedy with bite. It shows that that the real power is NOT in the elected officials but in the money elite and the only way to fight the money elite is to be as honest as you can be (And even then you will be charged with being corrupt, look at how the GOP is attacking Obama and his administration). That the Director showed that even Child Labor Law, which were popular by 1940, would be defeated by the money elite by simply changing the subject (Which is what the GOP has done since the 1940s).

Child Labor Laws have always been popular with the people, but opposed by Big money. The above movie uses it to show how true reform requires people to understand the politcal process AND ignore accusation of corruption when the sole purpose of the Accusation is to defeat reform. The above corrupt political organization was not only tolerated but encouraged to exist by the big money groups UNTIL its leaders wanted real reform, at that point a false charge of corruption was made, supported by made up evidence NOT to stop corruption but to stop the reform. Something we need to look out for today.

For more on the movie see:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032554/

[Mariana]

108. Do you boycott movies and TV shows with child actors?

If so, I commend you.

***************

"Screw anyone", Democrat, republican or troll, who says that child labor is ok in ANY form.

[defendandprotect]

15. Rise of the right and child labor .... this is our fairly recent past and now our present!!

[Romulox]

38. It's not just "the right" that runs interference for the cheap labor agenda. nt

[Auggie]

20. Yeah, thanks ABC... now investigate Bush administration crimes

[L0oniX]

75. +1

[Love Bug]

23. You know it's gotta be bad when even Wal-Mart won't work with them...

[No Elephants]

30. Wal-Mart DID work with them until this hit the fan. It even bragged about working with them

in its advertising.

Wal-Mart does not want to get into trouble with consumers or the government over this, so it broke ties, but only after the publicity hit.

[superconnected]

52. Walmart continues to work with lots of world sweatshops and be exposed,

especially in China. If they won't work with this one in America anymore, you know it's bad.

[Omaha Steve]

25. I've bought this brand in the past

I didn't know. And I do try to buy fair trade items etc.


List of union picked foods in the USA: http://www.ufw.org/_page.php?menu=organizing&inc=orga_label.html

Farm workers under UFW contract enjoy decent wages, benefits & working conditions. When you purchase agricultural products, please help farm workers maintain hard won victories in the fields by looking for these labels:


WINE
Chateau Ste. Michelle
Columbia Crest
Saddle Mountain
Farron Ridge
North Star
Snoqualmie
St. Supery
Dollarhide Ranch
Scheid Vineyards Inc.
Balletto
Charles Krug
C.K. Mondavi
C.R. Cellars
Gallo of Sonoma
Gallo Estate
Rancho Zabaco
Anapamu
Marcelina
Indigo Hills
Turning Leaf
BLACK EAGLE WINES
United Farm Workers launch Black Eagle Wines. Vineyard workers now offer their own Napa Valley union wines that celebrate justice. MORE

MUSHROOMS

Monterey Mushrooms (California only)
Family Farms Mushrooms
Del Fresh
California Mushroom Farms Inc.

ALMONDS

Montpelier

DATES
Patos Dream Date Garden

STRAWBERRIES

Dole Berry *
Swanton Berry
*Only with the UFW Black Eagle

VEGETABLES

Andy Boy
Muranaka*
*Only with the UFW Black Eagle

ROSES
Armstrong
Jackson and Perkins (J&P)

CITRUS
(Lemons, Oranges, Grapefruit, Tangerines)
Sunkist*
Sunworld*
Airdrome*
Big Jim*
*Only with the UFW Black Eagle

[No Elephants]

35. Best and most useful post on the thread so far. Thank you.

I love "action item" posts.

[theHandpuppet]

50. Thank you so much for this list!

:thumbsup:

[Romulox]

36. So many DUers tell us that it is OMG RACIST1!!1!!!! to oppose the cheap labor agenda...

I think the true racists are the ones that defend the bosses that exploit migrant workers. :hi:

[WriteDown]

47. But they're doing the work that American children won't do...

Literally.

:eyes:

[Romulox]

51. I'll offer any one of you $50/hour to pick blueberries. You can't do it, my friend!

:puke:

[WriteDown]

53. Well...I probably can't....

Love blueberries and would probably turn blue from eating all of them.

[FlaGranny]

81. No one could

pick enough blueberries to add up to $50 an hour. Not humanly possible.

[Romulox]

83. It's a riff on a comment made by John McCain during the campaign

He said, "My friends, I'll offer anybody here $50 hour if you'll go pick lettuce in Yuma this season, and pick for the whole season."

When people in the crowd accepted his offer, he said, "...you can't do it, my friend."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpB9OoOU02M

[WriteDown]

Awesome! Thanks for the link. nt

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

63. I generally find that profanity is used...

When intelligence is lacking.

[tabasco]

124. I generally find

that you're a fucking douchebag.

[WriteDown]

143. Ah, proving my point. Thanks! nt

[Romulox]

65. What's with the non-referential rage?

You're currently trolling, which makes you look like the loon, even if you have a legitimate gripe.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulox]

79. I read *some* of the responses. Nobody can read them all.

".............This ass hole is a RW troll (Oh god, I am going to get slapped!!). I am going to ask you one very simple question; do you want legitimate debate or would you rather have these kind of "trolls" on your favorite site "playing" liberals?"

I've seen lots of posts from the poster in question, and never have I seen an overtly racist comment. That doesn't mean it has never happened (as I say, none of us can read every comment,) but I have seen no evidence of it.

That said, if you feel that someone has said something racist, the best thing to do is to deal with in that thread, so that people can judge for themselves. You put me in the uncomfortable position of either a) defending racist comments; or b) condemning somebody without evidence. I can't be dragged into that!

"If you have an agenda, put it out there. Most of us here do just that, I certainly do. Why have some phony motherfucker "race baiting" or worse posting without at the very fucking least calling him/her out? Simple question. AND, your answer? Okay, I'll wait..............."

I do have an agenda, which I'm pretty upfront about in my posts, like you said. And I will join you in condemning this poster, if you can supply something more than a naked accusation. As I said, I'm not here to have an exhaustive knowledge of everybody's posts. But I'm also not here to jump on every accusation of racism.

Long story short: supply a link, and I'll read it and decide for myself. :shrug:

[noiretextatique]

103. absolutely

gee...it's so cool that the whole family gets to hang out together picking blueberries for minimum wage for some mega-corp farm :puke:

[NashVegas]

42. "discovered by graduate school students working with ABC News as fellows with the Carnegie..."

Oh, the irony.

ABC's using traded, farmed, young, freebie techie talent that someone else takes care of to bust a farming operation for using traded, freebie kids that someone else takes care of.

(Before anyone shoots me, yes, I believe it's wrong to work these kids for labor. I just hope people don't miss the BULLSHIT of ABC using interns - paid by someone else's stipend - to produce its news.)

[Romulox]

48. This is a massive stretch (poor little Carnegie fellows...) nt

[NashVegas]

89. No, It's What Goes On Across America

Businesses across the board accept unpaid interns to do work that used to be handled by low-level employees who, if they stood out, went onto more responsible jobs and eventually management. If not, they went to work at retail.

One year, one batch we had were required to put in 30 hours per week as a condition for getting their degree.

At least the Carnegie kids get a stipend.

The only difference between ABC's interns and the blueberry pickers is the media kids get something for their resumés and rolodexes.

[Romulox]

101. This is a thread about 5 year olds working in the fields (and the DUers who are cool with it.)

"The only difference between ABC's interns and the blueberry pickers is the media kids get something for their resumés and rolodexes."

5 year old children of migrant workers vs. upper middle class kids doing internships. You sure you've pointed out the only difference? :shrug:

[NashVegas]

121. And I Noted the Irony of ABC Using Free Labor To Get the Report

If tangents were suddenly disallowed on DU, the place would shrivel.

[Arger68]

46. "Walmart will not tolerate the use of child labor" **

**Offer void in countries that don't enforce child labor laws.

[Romulox]

49. ...in THIS country.

( I know you made the same point, but I couldn't help playing the title game!)

[NewJeffCT]

58. I know - soon available at your local Wal-Mart

blueberries imported fresh from South America.

[jpak]

55. but...but...child labor is good for 'Merica - Right to Work and all that horseshit

:puke:

[Postman]

66. Republican/Conservative economic policies at work. Next up on Nightline: The benefits of Slavery

[Romulox]

67. One of the things that sucks about DU is that people who oppose workplace enforcement won't show up

on this thread.

Same as the "Thank GAWD it passed!" people won't show up on an AIG bonus thread...

[benld74]

71. Operations THAT LARGE require MANY Workers,,,

But people forget that
HELL I forget that
We don't think of it because we do not see them until something like this hits us over the head.

[MUAD_DIB]

72. I'm sure some GOPyg is thinking up a nifty daycare workforce right now.

Blueberry Farms Daycare

It has a nice ring to it. No?


"Mommy, we helped the teacher pick blueberries."

[L0oniX]

74. Big fucking deal ...I used to pick blue berries every summer when I was grade school age.

I worked North of Holland which is about 25 miles North of Grand Haven. Everyone's kids work the patched every summer ...it was the norm. For fucks sake ...can't a young kid make money anymore?
:wtf:

[harmonicon]

90. no shit

When my grandparents were children, kids worked in factories, and then a bunch of hateful bastards put a stop to that. What jerks. Probably the same people who came up with all of this OSHA bullshit - don't those idiots know that safe working conditions require the companies to spend money that could have gone into wages? Why do so many people want to keep the poor down with this crap?

Even worse: did you know that there are people who want to stop the practice of enslaving child soldiers? What were those kids supposed to do after militias killed their families? Being a child soldier in a rebel army is totally a-ok. It's how they make a living, duh.

[L0oniX]

97. LOL

[MUAD_DIB]

91. This was a corporate farm growing for Walmart, right?

[noiretextatique]

104. right...people don't seem to grasp that

this is a mega-corp exploiting little children, not their nostalgic childhood memories :argh:

[FlaGranny]

78. Oh does this story bring back fond childhood memories.

Many of the mothers in our small town picked blueberries in the summer. They always took their young kids with them - no babysitters. Many kids, me included, begged to pick berries so we could earn the money for a candy or a soda. I remember several times people yelling out across the fields - "inspectors coming" at which point we kids would all run and hide. We had great fun except for the occasional chiggers. We did more eating of berries and playing than working. Kids should certainly not be forced to do field labor though.

[roody]

80. The parents need the money, and they don't have child care.

[Romulox]

84. LOL. nt

[fascisthunter]

82. yes, child labor should be tolerated

because we wouldn't want to disenfranchise that child from such fond memories... wow

[Romulox]

85. Some of the responses above defending child labor prove what a horrific society we've become

and so quickly! :wtf:

[happygoluckytoyou]

87. FOX NEWS BREAK.... Paris Hilton wears new pair of shoes .... BREAKING NEWS! ! ! ! ! !

[Harry Monroe]

92. My dad worked as a strawberry picker to help his family during the Great Depression.

Picked strawberries in Hammond La. where he was born. He was about 6-7 when he started; went to school also. Picked after school and on weekends. To this day, he hates strawberries and won't touch them!!

[zalinda]

94. These families are POOR!

I'm sure the grower knew they were there, but I doubt that he cracked the whip to make them work. All over this country, kids are working to help their families, but it's okay because it's not "Big Business" doing it. I live in a poor neighborhood, and there are kids out there cutting lawns, racking leaves and shoveling snow, anything to make a buck. The kids working will make a difference between having to choose between heat and food. And it's not only the kids scrounging for work, the adults are too.

There is a real difference between child labor and "child labor". The first is hiring children to work in jobs that otherwise would be going to adults, but the children work for less. We have immigrants that do that now. The other "child labor" is where the child is working to help out the family, as in picking produce. That extra money that the children bring in could help them eat better food, or give them a roof over their head when the picking season is over, and the child could be in school.

Children raised to believe that work is a part of life, and nothing to be ashamed of, will probably be productive all their lives whether they need to or not. Right now, seniors make up the bulk of the volunteers in jobs to help the "less fortunate". Most of them have worked all their lives, and yes, even as children, because our parents believed that we should contribute to the survival of the family. I started babysitting at the age of 11, and from then on bought all my own clothes and shoes. Now, we believe in helping the survival of society. When we die off, I wonder who will take our place. It seems that so many feel that they should receive something just because they exist, rather than because they earned it.

zalinda

[MattBaggins]

145. I give you an A for effort you did at least try to sugar coat this

Pay the parents more then.

Don't condone 12 hour work days and a five year old lugging buckets that probably weigh as much as she does.

[Tumbulu]

95. The children are helping their parents

and cannot be left home alone. And would you prefer they be sitting watching tv and playing video games?

As long as they are not missing school and being forced to work ( the story shows the littlest one carrying buckets that is all), why shouldn't they come out and help the parents?

An excellent mechanic/tractor driver who worked for me ~15 years ago was breaking up with his wife and he told me that his wife would beat his 4 yr old son. He asked if he could bring his son to work with him and what was I supposed to do? Make him send his son to be beaten? So, his little boy would come to work and he played on the farm and pretended to work and the tractor had this air conditioned cab. I was grateful to have such a great employee and I knew he was worried about his son. And there is no child care out on farms except all the people living and working on them.

On many farms it is more about child care options and keeping the kids occupied while the parent is trying to get some work done.

[janet118]

105. Parents will now not be allowed to take their children into fields . . .

Letter from Adkin

Much better for everyone, right?

I don't think many people on this board understand what it's like to be poor with children. Having a family work together outdoors in a blueberry field is not the same as making kids work with dangerous machinery in a dirty, windowless factory. This work was done last summer when school was not in session and, since I have picked blueberries myself, I know what it entails. It is somewhat tedious, but not unhealthy.

Now this local Michigan farmer who allowed families to bring their kids into the fields with them can no longer sell to Walmart (a real champion of labor and children). The Waltons will now purchase their produce from another country along with the rest of their junk.

And we'll all live happily ever after.

Why aren't ABC's freebie "journalism" interns investigating something that really matters? Maybe an expose of all the non-union, underpaid labor at Disney World.

[NashVegas]

120. Thanks For the Information

Why aren't ABC's freebie "journalism" interns investigating something that really matters?

And I'm so glad to see you get it.

[Extend a Hand]

116. I think a ban on piece work

would go along way towards solving the problem.

[Lagomorph]

117. Summer vacation was so children could help with the harvest...

Whole communities would work each others farms to bring in the food before the rains. The kids worked too. The entire community was related by blood or marriage (ahem, and sometimes both). There were no "rich" people, just working families. Nobody was wealthy enough to sit out the harvest. Everybody was in debt up to their ass and the depression drove them off their farms by the tens of thousands.

After traveling 1200 miles in the back of a dump truck, my grandfather got a depression job building Grand Coulee dam while the kids worked as pickers during the harvest in a town 100 miles away. My dad got a paper route and saved enough to buy a bicycle. He got to do the paper route on his bicycle one day a week when his parents made him share it with each of his six brothers and sisters. Since they were all working during the harvest, they all got to ride the bike to school or work one day a week, except Sunday, which was devoted to Catholicism.

This is what my grandparents told me. This is what my parents, uncles and aunts told me, they grew up as kids during the great depression. I've seen the pictures and heard the stories. I respect them for their experience and the wisdom they passed on to me.

We've changed a lot since the 1940's when it all came to an end.

[MattBaggins]

146. Only carrying buckets? Only carrying buckets?

how much do you think those buckets weigh? Do you really think that is age appropriate work for a five year old?

You are a strange cookie if you do.

[Odin2005]

100. Ugh, we are so regressing as a society.

:(

[bvar22]

107. There are several "pick-your-own" Blueberry Farms in our area.

I have seen Families with young children picking Blueberries, especially on Week Ends.
I always assumed they were picking them for their own use, but each farm has a "Buy Back" policy where you could sell your "picked" blueberries back to the owner for a few bucks.

I suppose some could have been "selling them back" for a few extra dollars. :shrug:

That doesn't seem like a bad idea.

[xchrom]

111. child labour like that isn't right.

and despite the 'heartwarming' stories of individual childhoods here -- that company should have provided care or explained to the workers that the children could not be there.

what if something happened to that child? who would be responsible?

when the gardners showed up at my condo one day with young children on tow and helping -- i called the maintenance company so fast -- and told the gardners to go away -- the children could not stay.

[Tumbulu]

112. it's not a company. It's a farm

and farm worker's families get to chose between leaving their kids all alone in a house with a tv or having the children come with them and "help" out if there is no school to go to for the kids.

I began working to buy my own food and clothes at 11 (like a poster above). I would stay up until 1 am on weeknights and go to school the next day. I saved up money to go to college. These work habits have served me well throughout my life. My mother always said "there are lots of smart people, but not so many hard working smart people" and learning to work hard is a very important skill.

I would rather the children be with the parents "helping" than home alone watching tv. And if you think that any farmer has the profit to come up with money to pay for childcare, you must live in a city. Farmer's make a very modest profit, especially on non subsidized crops such as blueberries.

[Gormy Cuss]

137. It's a commercial grower/packer, not a small farm.

Children under the age of 12 aren't allowed to "help" out under any circumstance in this type of operation. It is a clear violation of the Fair Labor Standards act.

[MattBaggins]

147. No it's a company

[varelse]

113. Judging from the replies

child labor is ok with progressives - at least those on DU. :(

[FarLeftFist]

118. Now we know where all the jobs have gone. Those psp games aren't cheap.

[Tim01]

119. Children working with their family, oh the horror.

Tight knit families have no place in a modern culture. Those children should be spending time in daycare and pre-pre-pre-school. It is wrong for kids to spend time in the sun helping their parents and developing work ethics and family bonds.
Kids who grow up like these kids do will frequently have wonderful memories of their youth.

[leftyladyfrommo]

122. Their parents probably want them close - they are just safer.

Little kids can't do much but haul stuff around. But at least they are in sight of adults.

I think kids are proud to work along side their family members. They can feel like they are important part of the family - belonging and helping out. It's so much healthier than just sitting inside and watching a box spouting stupid stuff all day.

[fasttense]

130. This so much bull shit. Justifying child labor must be a full time

job for you Republicons.

Have you picked berries in an industrial farm setting? You can't keep your eyes on your children. You have quotas to meet hourly and daily. You have no time to watch children. If you don't make your quota they cut your pay or fine you.

I've worked alongside migrant workers and while we picked in one small field they sprayed pesticides in the next field and it drifted all over us. Great environment for a child, so healthy. I got a huge rash all over my exposed skin.

You pro-child labor idiots don't have a clue of what it's like working in an industrial farm setting.

[MattBaggins]

149. Those pesticides are good for you

They build character

[mule_train]

125. here's one of them

[tabasco]

126. Watch the video and see if it reminds you of happy childhood memories

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/young-children-working-blueberry-fields-walmart-severs-ties/story?id=8951044

[douglas9]

133. An old story that sadly has not changed much

Childhood and Child Labor

Hundreds of thousands of adolescent farm workers are laboring under dangerous and grueling conditions in the United States. These children often work 12-hour days, and during peak season, may work 14 hours a day or more, seven days a week. One-third of those interviewed by Human Rights Watch (an international human rights organization) reported earning significantly less than the minimum wage. Some workers were paid as little as $2.00 an hour." ("Fingers To The Bone: United States Failure To Protect Child Farm Workers." Human Rights Watch. New York. June 2000.)

http://www.nfwm.org/content/childhood-and-child-labor

[Romulox]

142. Kick to demonstrate how many DUers support child labor. nt

[MattBaggins]

148. Double kick

Shameless bastards all of them.

What have we seen on DU this last month regarding kids.

Diddling young girls is OK if your a famous R-teest and have lots of money.
Kids should never be allowed in public since they might offend the snotty wine country liberals.
Child labor is wistful and nostalgic.

Stay classy DU.

[Systematic Chaos]

150. Joining in with you guys -- with added props for the unfailing love given...

...to vegetarians and vegans on this site.

I've never been so fucking proud to be a "progressive". :eyes:

[Ignis]

151. Very sad, but worth a kick. (nt)