Toll rises as Kosovo violence spreads

[kera]

At least 15 people are now known to have died and 250 injured in violent clashes that erupted across Kosovo between ethnic Albanians and Serbs.



Clashes were reported on Wednesday from Mitrovica in the north to Urosevac in the south and Pec in the west as NATO peacekeeping troops scrambled to quell the outbreak.

"There are 14 people killed, six in Mitrovica, three in Lipljan, three in Caglavica, one in Pec and one in Urosevac," Pleurat Sejdiu of the Kosovo Health Ministry said. One person died in Pristina, the capital.

Angry mobs

The Serbian news agnecy Beta quoted local police as saying Albanian mobs in Lipljan were burning Serb houses as NATO soldiers worked to evacuate Serb civilians.

Kosovo has been under the control of the United Nations since NATO bombing drove Serb forces out in mid-1999, halting Serb repression of Albanian civilians but also granting victory to Albanian separatist fighters.

United Nations Kosovo police veteran Derek Chappell described it as "a very dangerous situation...very large scale."
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/80E2825A-0BDD-44E8-B289-664C075917FD.htm

[cprise]

1. Bill Clinton doesn't care

His job is done. He got the excuse he needed to topple a socialist government.

[madrchsod]

2. ?????????

[cprise]

4. !!!

!

[Trajan]

3. Milosevic is (was) a facist ....

A brutal dictator ...

I cannot fathom how anyone could apologize for Milosevic simply because they presume his government was 'socialist' ... it more resembled Nazi Corporatism ...

But then again: .. Isnt Clinton's dick socialist ??? ...

Hmmmmmmmmm ....

[On the Road]

8. Milosevic? No!

But in retrospect, Marshall Tito is lookin' real good.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

15. I could be wrong but it seems a lot of people there loved Tito.

[Vladimir]

17. There was a reason for that

name me another 40 years of continuous peace and presperity in that part of the world...

sometimes a cigar is only a cigar... :)

V

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

19. That's what I thought. My knowledge of that part of the world is narrow.

But my Greek father in law is a living encyclopedia and he has talked to me a lot about Tito.

"But other times a cigar it's just a big brown...." - George Carlin 1998 ;-)

[Vladimir]

22. Tito had his faults

he borrowed too much and a lot of the third world will never forgive him for standing on the sidelines during the Cold War instead of joining with Cuba/USSR/etc. But no-one before or since has come close to governing as well as him...

V

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

24. My father in law is a flaming right winger / realpolitik type of guy. But

even he respected Tito.

[On the Road]

25. One Thing Tito Did

was keep the country together by balancing all the ethnic groups and spreading the wealth around. I've also heard Yugoslavians say that they were proud of Tito's polished international image -- he gave Yugoslavia stature beyond the size of the country.

Now, I fully believe that the breakup of Yugoslavia was encouraged by the West in order to divide and conquer. But Milosevic helped the process along greatly by promoting ethnic Serbian feelings and stirring up discord.

[Just Me]

39. Isn't "spreading the wealth around" a form of egalitarianism,...

,...and democracy? How did our country get so confused about "socialism",...as if it is inherently evil when democracy flourishes in a socialistic-like society? I really no longer know my country anymore,...except that I see a heavy hand of corporatism which is not servicing our people.

[David__77]

7. The dismemberment of Yugoslavia was an imperialist-backed crime.

The bottom line is that Western powers wanted to destroy Yugoslavia because it stood in the way of the expansion of the sphere of influence into eastern Europe. And now the country is replaced by squabbling ethnic fiefdoms and racist mobs.

[EdGy]

10. Milosevic is the one who destroyed Yugoslavia

yes, the west was complicit, and it supported him. But he and his allies did it themselves.

They make no bones about this. Read the memoirs of Milosevic allies such as Borisav Jovic. They say very clearly that they wanted to break up Yugoslavia. And in this they were aided by Tudjman of Croatia, who was actively and militarily backed by the US.

And Milosevic was not, despite the label, a socialist. He did more than any imperialist could ever do to destroy the potential that Yugoslav-style socialism had.

[Vladimir]

12. You are spot on

Milosevic/Tudjman/Izetbegovic... the trifecta that shattered Yugoslavia.

V

[sprockets]

29. bullshit

its amazing how many democrats are always in denial
of actual events, dayton peace accords? hello?
do you watch or read the news? yes sure "moroseoldbitch" and
crew were thugs...planted thugs, we put them there...
then we bombed the shit out of them commencing on the day
Columbine happened...but of course you're in denial more
concerned with how that jerk Moore made fun of poor willie boy-

1000 dead civilians, an ecological disaster and for what?
the same old bullshit over and over, plant the evil puppet,
make the big mistakes, un-make mistake blah blah blah...

And who is the ONLY democratic candidate who stood with the repukers to denounce the yugoslavian bombing? Dennis Kucinich, the only
candidate i've seen with true balls and conviction-

[Vladimir]

30. Listen

I don't want to get personal, but I am from Yugoslavia. Part Serb, part Croat, part Macedonian. There is no doubt whatsoever that the US played its part in destroying what was until the mid-80s one of the most thriving multi-ethnic communities anywhere. That said, it would be a fantastic abdication of responsibility on the part of Yugoslavs to blame it all on the West. We swallowed the nationalists lies in the late 70s and 80s, we elected them. After 40 years of living in peace, we bought the rethoric of war. To blame others in this case is far too fucking easy for my liking.

Of course the 1999 bombings were a crime. I was there, with tomahawks landing literally a block away from my house. If you think I am not angry about that, you have no fucking idea about what anger is. But at the same time, there is no use crying about what the West did to us, when my goddamn fellow Serbs still haven't got the message. No one forced us to retaliate last night and burn down a 17th century mosque. But we did anyway. The West is full of shit, but so is a large part of Serbia my friend, and denials are of no use.

V

[sprockets]

34. Point taken

And my point is this, which i will repeat-

stop trying to spotlight Milosevic, because everytime you do this, you bury the other factors-

and yes i was corresponding with serb filmmakers during that time and the idea that ANY of you could possibly say "yeah that damn Milosevic, he was a real bastard" you should continue that sentence with "you know, if it wasnt for that asshole, nato wouldn't of had to bomb the shit out of us."

There is no excuse, there will never be an excuse. its the same
with iraq, haiti, you name it.

[Just Me]

40. Geez, V,...your words make me feel shameful.

I can handle having been ignorant about all that,...and much more. I believe your people could handle taking responsibility for their ignorance, even having bought into deception. However, I,....

,...I have compassion without having to indulge in denial. I offer my sincere sympathy for your loss. And I am really, really sorry for the offenses committed against your people.

[Vladimir]

41. There is no shame in

ignorance. We are all mired in it, the question is only ignorant about what.

Don't be sorry either. You care - that's more than most people can say for themselves.

V

[EdGy]

31. you don't know what you're talking about

you seem to be the kind of leftist who is in denial, and just replicates the simplistic right wing view of the world. And this is destructive to the progressive cause globally and in the US.

You're also really saying the rest of the world does not exist separately from the US.

If Milosevic did bad things it MUST be because he was a US plant... Talk about patronizing.

I've spent most of my life studying this place and I am fully aware of the complicity of the US, and yes the Clinton Administration, in what happened. But Milosevic did not need help from the US. he was a very able politician and strategist, quite capable of taking care of himself.

Believe it or not, just because some leader does bad things does not mean that he was doing them on the orders of the US...

And if you check my previous post, you will see that I am among the most vociferous critics of US behavior in the world, by both democrats and republicans.

I do think the Kosovo bombing was wrong, and is part of the reason for what's happening there today. Kucinich was spot on when he denounced the bombing.

But you're not going to get anywhere by criticizing policies from the standpoint of ignornance.

[sprockets]

33. drugs?

as in which hallucinogens are you taking?

"If Milosevic did bad things it MUST be because he was a US plant... Talk about patronizing"

where do you get that? i said nothing of the sort, please read posts before landing your unfounded criticisms-

To suggest that Milosevic would or could have done what he did
without outside support is true denial, we determined his fate from the onset and you know it-

[EdGy]

37. hmmm....

I'm sorry, I've only been speaking english for a few decades now, so maybe I misunderstood this statement of yours from the above post:

yes sure "moroseoldbitch" and crew were thugs...planted thugs, we put them there...

I read that to mean that you were saying that Milosevic was planted by the US... But maybe my English is not so good...

as for this:

To suggest that Milosevic would or could have done what he did
without outside support is true denial, we determined his fate from the onset and you know it-

Ummmm, Milosevic was totally able and willing to do what he did, he did not need anyone's support or permission. The Yugoslav Army was the 4th or 5th largest army in Europe.

Here again you fall into the typical American trap of seeing the world as only responding to what the US does, good or bad. Believe it or not, people outside of the US do undertake things even if the US is not involved! It is unfortunate that this US-centric view is common among so many leftists, but it is not surprising after all.

so maybe think about what you've posted in your own posts before jumping on someone who is only citing your own words...

[Bandit]

35. Hello...

Ever hear of Bosnia? Bush 1 was in power all during the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia. I guess you think Milosovic did a good thing there also? Milosovic was tried by a world court and found guilty of war crimes and genocide and if I remember correctly he was supported by Russia completely.

[Vladimir]

11. Speaking as a socialist and Yugo

Milosevic wasn't one - he was a corrupt piece of shit. Which doesn't excuse any of the actions in 1999, by all sides.

V

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

14. Completely off topic. But, have you watched the movie Underground?

[Vladimir]

16. Of course

"An electrical engineer! Ha, he's just a banderas!"

that never fails to crack me up

V

Note: I'm sure you know, but for other people's benefit, a banderas is a maintenance worker who replaces fuses on power lines.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

18. It was a bad ass movie.

I've never asked a Yugoslavian opinion's on it. I'm buying it. Because it's the kind of movie one needs to watch a few times to soak it in (besides I'm rather "slow").

[Vladimir]

20. Yeah, it was notoriously difficult to watch

but Kusturica is a genius. It took me 2-3 viewings to appreciate it too...

Get 'lepa sela lepo gore' while you are at it. Its possibly the finest bit of tragicomedy made in the 90s.

V

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

23. Will do.

How about that soundtrack? It reminded me of my wedding music.

[EdGy]

26. when you watch it,

make sure you turn up the soundtrack REAL loud. You really have to do that to get the full effect of the gypsy bands.

[Vladimir]

27. Just to go even more off topic

the way gypsies are treated in Serbia and throughout Europe actually is one of the most diguisting forms of racism around. They may not get the Western headlines, but on a day-to-day basis, no one has had it worse in this part of the world.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. I'm bit emotional today...

V

[Judi Lynn]

36. Thanks for bringing it up.A lot of us have been kept in the dark about it.

I'm sure you wouldn't be surprised to know our own sense of the world is wildly distorted.

We just don't find out about a lot of things unless we accidently hear about them, and then start searching for more information.

I don't believe it's that Americans aren't interested. We're simply uninformed.

[pansypoo53219]

5. why not go back to milosevic's ways

it's not as if george would do anything.

[sprockets]

6. Clinton,dayton peace accords,1000 blown up civilians,eco-disaster

that's how you'd spell yugoslavia in the mid 90's.

folks, the idea of installing puppets and yanking puppets
to the greater detriment of the population is certainly nothing
new.

lather.rinse.repeat.

why does it no longer shock me when powell comes out *pro* outsourcing
american jobs while at the same time bush admin is caught red handed
rigging medicare tv spots! ? ! ? ! ?:puke:

[Vladimir]

9. Please also see

the other threads on the subject in LBN

Information is now coming in literally by the minute. I am not posting any new sources because a lot of it seems speculation right now but it appears a total of 14 churches in Kosovo and 2 mosques in Yugoslavia have been torched, incuding some 13th and 17th century buildings and historical artefacts. There are reports of 'massacres' but I don't want to post details until a vaguely consistent picture emerges.

Keep this kicked please...

V

[EdGy]

13. here's a much better source for keeping up to date on what's happening

it's an independent news organization that has been very good at covering the situation, willing to take on all sides in the interest of getting the story out:

http://www.b92.net/english/

[seemslikeadream]

21. Albanians set fire to Serb Orthodox churches in Kosovo

Residents of the southern Serbian town of Nis watch a mosque burn in the center of the town, March 17, 2004. Albanians set fire to Serb Orthodox churches in Kosovo on Thursday as NATO scrambled to deploy up to 1,000 more troops to stifle an explosion of ethnic violence. A church was torched in the flashpoint town of Mitrovica despite the efforts of French NATO peacekeepers, who fired teargas and rubber bullets to drive off the mob. Photo by Stevan Lazarevic/Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=4597285§ion=news

[EdGy]

28. see, the world IS a safer place because Saddam is gone

the GOP told me so.

[seemslikeadream]

32. Nato sends troops to quell Kosovo violence

Brussels - The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) said on Thursday it was sending reinforcements to Kosovo from Bosnia to help quell ethnic violence, with a company of 100-150 United States troops already on its way and two others on standby.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=24&art_id=qw1079601664197B261&set_id=1


Demonstrators carry Serbian flags and display three fingered Serbian Orthodox sign during protest against recent violence in Kosovo where ethnic Albanians and Serbs clashed, in Belgrade center March 18, 2004. Albanians set fire to Serb Orthodox churches in Kosovo on Thursday as NATO scrambled to deploy up to 1,000 more troops to stifle an explosion of ethnic violence. Photo by Marko Djurica/Reuters

[looking glass]

38. Kosovo - A narco-terrorist state

Milo is a fascist.

But now, Kosovo is undeniably a narco-terrorist state, whose seemingly infinite number of brothels have raised sexual slavery in Europe to an all-time high.

The Albanian Mafia uses Kosovo as a springboard for terrorizing Italy.

And Kosovo has been almost completely ethnically-cleansed of Orthodox Christians, leaving very few churches standing.

Kosovo has NOT been a NATO/U.N. success story.

[Tinoire]

42. Jeez. What a wave of violence sweeping the world

How horrible. How absolutely HORRIBLE!

Peace to all the innocent people everywhere paying for other people's greed.

[bicentennial_baby]

44. Exactly, my friend

It's been surging lately, and it's got me tense...

[Vladimir]

43. The latest on this

http://www.b92.net/english/news/index.php?order=priority

Svilanovic demands acknowledgement of ethnic cleansing

WASHINGTON -- Friday – Federal Foreign Minister Goran Svilanovic today demanded that the US acknowledge that this week’s violence in Kosovo is an orchestrated attempt at the ethnic cleansing of the province.

V

[Vladimir]

45. Richard Holbrook

blames the US administration for the present situation...

Translated from www.danas.co.yu:

"I think the international community is responsible, and primarily the USA and UN. They have known for some time that the peace in Kosovo is illusory but have taken no concrete steps to ensure a premanent solution."

V