European airlines fly test planes despite volcano ash danger; pressure rises to end flight ban

[uppityperson]

Source: Minneapolis Trib

Several major airlines safely flew test flights without passengers over Europe on Sunday despite official warnings about the dangers of a volcanic ash plume, fueling a corporate push to end an economically devastating ban on commercial air traffic.

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines said that by midday Sunday it had flown four planes through what it described as a gap in the layer of microscopic dust over Holland and Germany. The ash began spewing from an Icelandic volcano Wednesday and has drifted across most of Europe, shutting down airports as far south and east as Bulgaria.

Air France, Lufthansa and Austrian Airlines have also sent up test flights, although most traveled below the altitudes where the ash has been heavily concentrated.

KLM said its planes of various types flew the 115-mile (185-km) flight from Duesseldorf in western Germany to Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport at an unspecified normal altitude above 10,000 feet (3,000 meters). They did not encounter the thick though invisible cloud of ash, whose main band has floated from 20,000 to 32,000 feet, the height of most commercial flight paths.

Read more: http://www.startribune.com/world/91366359.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ

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http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=10405458

Several major airlines safely flew test flights without passengers over Europe on Sunday despite official warnings about the dangers of a volcanic ash plume, fueling a corporate push to end an economically devastating ban on commercial air traffic.

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines said that by midday Sunday it had flown four planes through what it described as a gap in the layer of microscopic dust over Holland and Germany. The ash began spewing from an Icelandic volcano Wednesday and has drifted across most of Europe, shutting down airports as far south and east as Bulgaria.

Air France, Lufthansa and Austrian Airlines have also sent up test flights, although most traveled below the altitudes where the ash has been heavily concentrated.

KLM said its planes of various types flew the 115-mile (185-km) flight from Duesseldorf in western Germany to Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport at an unspecified normal altitude above 10,000 feet (3,000 meters). They did not encounter the thick though invisible cloud of ash, whose main band has floated from 20,000 to 32,000 feet, the height of most commercial flight paths.

http://www.khon2.com/news/world/story/Air-France-conducts-successful-test-flight/1FFqBsW-YEio3xZGDX5oKQ.cspx

Air France says it has safely carried out a test flight over France for the first time since a plume of volcanic ash shut down aviation over Europe.

The plane traveled from Paris to Toulouse in southern France.

The airline says it will conduct a total of five test flights today.

[spin]

1. So they start flying and a plane flies through a thick concentration ...

of ash and crashes in downtown London.

I'd be a little suspicious of the airlines who are losing enormous amounts of money on a daily basis, conducting test flights and saying all is well.

[Mojorabbit]

35. Yep all it would take is a wind shift. nt

[BrklynLiberal]

2. So..when a few hundred people die..what the hell..

as long as the corporations will be able to keep making profits.

Would this be "an acceptable loss" or merely "collateral damage"?

[awoke_in_2003]

8. Capitalism, isn't it beautiful...

people always have to die before others realize something is a bad idea. Volcanic ash tears apart jet engines- hell, our simulators even have volcanic ash scenarios which are pretty accurate, thanks to data Boeing gathered after Mount St. Helens.

[BrklynLiberal]

9. Scary, sad and horrifying..isn't it?

[awoke_in_2003]

14. horrifying indeed...

once I realized that human life means NOTHING to the rich, the picture became clearer.

[enlightenment]

25. If it were only about airline profits, I'd agree with you -

but it's not.

Whether we like it or not, air travel has become an integral part of human life and simply sitting in front of a computer suggesting that people can 'eat locally grown foods' and 'take ships' and 'stay home' is ridiculous.

There comes a point - and it is close to arriving - when this ban is going to severely impact a hell of a lot more than airline profits. It is already having serious impacts on people's lives, just in terms of getting home from where ever they were when the bans started. Some people are fortunate - some American friends of mine were fortunate that a UK friend was willing to make a 26 hour round trip journey by car and ferry to 'rescue' them (a family of four with two small children) from Frankfort and bring them back to London. They didn't have unlimited funds to stick out an extended, forced stay in Germany. Another family of three, who are British, are stuck in NY - where they were taking their Easter holiday. Fortunately they have friends to stay with - but they are self-employed and can do nothing but sit, knowing that their finances are on the line because of their situation.

Other people are in much worse straits - as one man pointed out yesterday, many holiday travelers plan their spending to the penny and have little to nothing in reserve at the end of a trip. Now they're stuck, with few resources available. If they're lucky, they are stuck in countries that will help them; but not every nation is that accommodating.

Businesses, many of them small businesses, are starting to suffer. Food supplies will be affected, which will broaden the scope of the problem.

Perhaps it's not wise to fly into this ash cloud - but a complete ban may not be the answer and marking down this desire to get things moving again as straight greed is extremely short-sighted.

[awoke_in_2003]

29. Valid points...

but do you have any idea what only a little bit of ash can do to the blades on a jet engine turbine. Damage just a few blades and you start getting major vibrations, and the engine can shake itself apart. Not a pretty scenario.

[BrklynLiberal]

32. Maybe we should examine going back to rail and ship travel.

Getting everywhere faster has not exactly been the boon to mankind that we might have hoped.

[enlightenment]

40. I'm all for rail travel - ships, unfortunately are neither

time nor cost effective for most people and they never were.

It is unfortunate that we do not have a viable rail transport system in this country.

[Happyhippychick]

3. I wonder what the "guinea pig fare" will be?

Oh but please remember to confiscate my nail clipper in the security area. We wouldn't want me to hold up the plane by giving the pilot a pedicure.

:sarcasm:

[virgogal]

4. Funny post----thanks,I needed it today. Speaking of sharp objects,

I read the book "Miracle on the Hudson" and the folks that were on the life raft,which was attached to the plane by a thick rope,were afraid the plane would sink and drag the raft down with it.

Not one of the many passengers on the raft had anything sharp enough to cut the rope.

We are living in a mad,mad,mad world.

[tomm2thumbs]

5. thrusting their whole hand into a pot of boiling water to grab the penny at the bottom

interesting

[harkadog]

6. This is very overblown.

These planes are not being flown by robots. They are being flown by live pilots who are not on suicide missions. If they think it is ok then I believe them.

[BrklynLiberal]

11. No problem. The fact that all the tests done at the WTC site showed the air to be perfectly clean

is a true testament to the honesty and integrity of those who are interested making sure that business as usual will commence as soon as possible.
.........NOT!!!!!

[harkadog]

18. No the tests at the WTC did not show that.

You are making it up. Do you really think the pilots wish to commit suicide?

[uppityperson]

26. Tests did not show that, but that is what was said and proven false

that is the point, who to trust? Airlines who ask pilots to fly?

[BrklynLiberal]

30. Thank you for understanding what my point was.....

:thumbsup: :hi:

[uppityperson]

12. The difficulty I foresee is not seeing the ash until in it and they could fly into a patch of it

without knowing.

http://www.avo.alaska.edu/faq.php?faqid=6
"Encounters between aircraft and volcanic ash are serious because the ash can cause severe damage to the engines as well as other parts of the airplane. Two processes damage jet engines, particularly long-range, wide-body airplanes such as DC-10s and Boeing 747s that are used for international transport. The first damaging process is the mechanical abrasion of the moving parts in a jet engine, such as the compressor and turbine blades. This abrasion reduces the efficiency of the engine but does not typically cause engine failure. Another process with potentially more dangerous consequences is the introduction of ash into the hot parts of an aircraft's engines. Jet engines, particularly those on large airplanes used on international routes, operate near the melting temperature of volcanic ash. Ingestion of ash can clog fuel nozzles, combuster, and turbine parts causing surging, flame out, immediate loss of engine thrust, and engine failure.

"In the past 16 years more than 80 jet airplanes have been damaged by volcanic ash worldwide. Seven of those encounters actually resulted in engine failure, although all seven eventually managed to restart enough engines to land without loss of life. In Alaska, potentially lethal ash clouds put aircraft at risk an average of four days per year." For more information on aircraft and volcanic ash, see Volcanic ash - danger to aircraft in the North Pacific. For detailed information on specific hazards at specific Alaska volcanoes, check out AVO's volcano-hazard reports. From Nye, C. J., Queen, Katherine, and McCarthy, A. M., 1998, Volcanoes of Alaska: Alaska Division of Geological & Geophysical Surveys Information Circular IC 0038, unpaged, 1 sheet, scale 1:4,000,000:

[BrklynLiberal]

15. Not worth the risk to human life just to make sure the airlines and other corporations

can brag about their bottom lines.

[Ikonoklast]

16. Pilots make bad decisions all the time.

Look at the number one reason for plane crashes.

It's called 'pilot error'.

And human beings sometimes make bad decisions based on their livelihood.

http://planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm

[harkadog]

20. So what is your answer since you will not accept theirs?

Ground the air fleets indefinitely since there is a remote chance of ash in the air somewhere? We can't accept the word of pilots, the airlines and the governments since they get a huge amount of revenue from airline fees and taxes. There are no neutral scientists because they all get their livelihood from some group or agency that has an interest in the case.

[Ikonoklast]

22. Name one pilot that is also a climatologist, and vulcanologist.

I'll listen to his conclusions.

A pilot is a person that flies a plane. That is his area of expertise.


I'd rather they take the word of a turbofan mechanic, after tearing down one of the engines to assess any compressor blade or shaft bearing degradation.

[harkadog]

28. The mechanic makes his livelyhood from the airlines.

So no one can be trusted and we have to end the airline industry. Ok.

[Stumbler]

39. Wow. Two points:

1st - if the airline is non-union, the pilot may be forced to fly the plane or risk losing their job. Still feel safe?

2nd - after the tragic (tho some say predicted and preventable) events of 9.11, we as a nation agreed to take every imaginable step toward avoiding the possibility of another terrorist attack via plane-as-weapon. Thus the reason we are still taking off our shoes because one guy once was suspected at one time of having a shoe-bomb once.

So now you're making the argument that in the remote possibility of volcanic ash taking down a plane, it's a-okay to chance it? In the spirit of that logic, if we're going to fly planes through clouds of volcanic dust, then let's stop requiring the removal of our shoes before boarding our flights.

[harkadog]

42. You can't be serious

1) Air France is probably the most unionized airline in the world.

2) So you are stating a pilot could be forced to commit suicide? Wow. How can people actually believe that?

3) I certainly do think the shoe thing is a ridiculous over reaction and I fly at least every other month.

[DeSwiss]

7. K&R

- I guarantee you that this article documenting the corporate push to end an economically devastating ban on commercial air traffic, will be Exhibit-A at trial.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLM_Flight_867

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9

[Cirque du So-What]

10. I've wondered why

one of the northern European governments couldn't mount a 'test' jet engine onboard a turboprop plane, then fly through various areas with the jet engine also running. The plane wouldn't be in danger of crashing due to the jet engine clogging up with ash, as the turboprop engines would keep running. Instruments would monitor pressures & other parameters in order to determine whether it was safe to fly without putting pilots, passengers & planes at risk in a jet-only plane.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. You can't just invent a new airplane in a week. n/t

[safeinOhio]

17. You could break out

some of those old prop jobs and make a fortune.

:think:

[Cirque du So-What]

21. I am aware of that

but volcanos have been erupting for eons & humans have been flying in jet-propelled planes for over 50 years, so why not devise a hybrid plane for testing the air quality in the periphery of the volcanic ash cloud after it has dispersed somewhat? It need not get built in a week; there will be other volcanos.

[Ikonoklast]

Umm, turboprops *are* powered by jet engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboprop

Their compressor fan blades would fail in the same manner.

[Cirque du So-What]

47. I was under the impression that lower internal pressures wouldn't cause as much trouble

but I suppose a simple piston engine-driven engine with a 'test' jet engine onboard would be less risky.

[Ikonoklast]

44. dupe delete n/t

[cleverusername]

19. Volunteers, any one?

Any volunteers to fly in the ash? Not me. If there is any question regarding safety, the planes should stay on the ground. Corps can take the loss.

[KakistocracyHater]

43. Predator Drones, repurposed in the name of science

*

[gtar100]

23. Well that makes sense. Why does the headline make it sound like a bad thing.

Better to test with empty planes than to turn everyone into guinea pigs.

[DCBob]

24. Results of test flights show "there's no impact"..

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/04/18/volcano.ash.test.flights/index.html?hpt=T1

They will be flying again soon.

[Dover]

27. I suggest that all the airline top brass (CEOs, Prez, etc.) AND their families take the first flight

through the ash clouds. THEN perhaps they might be believed.

[BrklynLiberal]

31. Brilliant idea..

[Spider Jerusalem]

33. They did

the CEO of British Airways was aboard their test flight of a 747 from London to Cardiff earlier this evening.

[tomm2thumbs]

34. good point and I think it is the effect over time they should be worried about -

the tanks, helicopters, etc in Iraq sandstorms did not stop the first day - it was over a longer exposure that problems arose.

The planes flying through that mess are then going to be continuing on to the U.S. and flying us around the country. Hmmm.

[nodehopper]

37. the CEO of KLM was on their first test flght yesterday.

[anigbrowl]

41. Now people will complain that he got to fly before anyone else could

Good catch :-)

[daleo]

36. A few test flights don't prove much

It's like saying that a few impaired drivers safely getting home intact proves drunk driving is safe. Even if volcanic ash increases the danger of a crash 100 fold, it would still take quite a few flights before a crash was likely to occur, statistically speaking. But the danger is still real.

[jberryhill]

38. One would assume the engineers are calling the shots...

..or at least one would hope.

I agree that a few test flights doesn't prove much, but I would hope they are doing engine breakdowns and inspections afterwards to assess more than whether a flight worked or not.

[daleo]

46. They should also be doing wind tunnel tests

I imagine it ought to be possible to simulate the effect of flying through volcanic ash in a wind tunnel.

[daggahead]

45. Not to be cruel, but wasn't there pressure to launch Challenger when it wasn't ...

... warm enough for the o-rings to become flexible?

Money will win and people will be put in harm's way.

:shrug: