Schwarzenegger looks at workers' comp

[54anickel]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apelection_story.asp?category=1135&slug=Schwarzenegger%20Workers'%20Comp

TORRANCE, Calif. -- Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger warned state legislators that unless they reach a deal to repair California's costly worker-compensation system, he will bypass lawmakers and ask voters to fix the problem with another ballot initiative.

"If we don't come to an agreement this coming week, then it's over, and then we will go to the ballot," the Republican governor said Friday at a manufacturing plant where he collected signatures to place an initiative before voters in November.

The move came less than a month after Schwarzenegger won approval for a $15 billion budget bailout plan from the constituents who propelled him into office.

Businesses have long complained that worker-compensation costs are jeopardizing jobs and pushing companies out of state. Democrats argue the GOP proposals to reform the program would harm injured workers without guaranteeing employer savings.

[Newsjock]

1. Boeing pulled the same crap in Washington state

... and got Gov. Pink Tutu Locke to hand over $3 billion of our money in tax breaks.

[saigon68]

6. Lose an arm---Get nothing. Die ---your orphans Get nothing.

Aah back to the 1890's and laissez-faire Capitalism.

Assume the risk of your dangerous job. To hell with your family

"Hey waiter, another bottle of Dom Perrignon for my associates", demanded the business tycoon.

[Hotler]

19. Exactly!

Ever see the documentary on PBS about the history of Chicago. They treated labor and the lower class(which is labor)like shit. Disposable items to be cast aside at will. Marshal Fields a rich department store owner said " my store is my property and as my employee working on my property you have NO rights. You do as I say". The 8 hour work day came from the Chicago industrial revolution. I think?

[liberalnurse]

2. My understanding is that the claims

generate the rate of "risk" which in turn is the fee the employer must pay.....based on his type of compensable injury claims and total of claims. So, why don't the employers make their place of employment "SAFER"? It stands to reason that a reduction in injuries will have a lower fee for workers compesation.

[shanti]

4. there is a LOT of fraud that goes on

with workers comp....believe that! this is one reason it's so high.

[saigon68]

7. How is that

just wondering?

[shanti]

8. explain?

doctors, lawyers, the "injured"...need i continue? i've heard of illegals getting "injured" and taking their money back to mexico to start a dairy farm. this is just one example, but i've heard of other foreign-born who milk this for all its worth.

don't misunderstand me, there are plenty of people who deserve it, but that's not who i'm referring to. the bad apples make it worse for everyone.

[polmaven]

10. You're absolutely right.

I have handled Workers' Comp claims for various companies in Massachusetts for many years. The fraud rate is huge, ranging from out and out "ringers" to merely "padding". Phony injuries, prolonged disabilities, or a real injury that did not really happen on the job. You name it, it has been tried, and often works.

If insurance companies would hire enough adjusters to properly manage the claims, the fraud could be slashed, but...well, you know insurance companies and greed!

[saigon68]

12. Thanks

Why wouldn't they disbar and criminally prosecute the crooked lawyers if they are committing frauds by filing false claims?

just a thought?

[DBoon]

15. Few illegal immigrants file claims, actually

They aren't familiar enough with the system to know how to work it, and they usually are very wary of dealing with any government agencies.

It's more typical here that 100% Americans are milking the system.

[Hotler]

20. So instead of...

going after the real bad apples, and enforcing the existing rules, they just chop away the rights to everyone. It's happening in every state. When ever there is a problem and business is involved, labor is always the blame. Owners and managers are never at fault. Workers Compensation companies and businesses view workers as a disposable item.

[DBoon]

13. Wife is a lawyer specializing in this stuff

There ARE many legit claims, first off. There is also a whole industry of doctors and applicant's attorneys who really try to milk the system. People get years of very dubious treatments. The doctors make money off this, but it does not benefit the patient. The system will in fact pay you to be in physical therapy the rest of your life, even if the medical justification is slim. There is a very good argument for restricting this type of treatment - restricting the types and length of some types of treatment. You can't have government-provided benefits without regulations to prevent the private sector from abusing the programs.

Comp also gets some people who are in fact ill or injured, believe their injury was caused by work, when as a medical fact it was not. No fraud, just someone with a serious condition trying to get it treated through the comp system when its not a workplace injury. A better medical system in general would prevent this.

Comp is also a point of focus for worker/boss conflicts. Employees who are poorly treated tend to file claims more frequently. When you have a poorly unionized, underpaid work force, the class conflicts will express themselves somewhere.

Some of the local press blames deregulation. Insurance carriers were deregulated in the mid-90s as a way to encourage cost cutting. Carriers cut premiums so much that some went bankrupt or stopped doing business in the state. The ones that were left could then raise rates at their pleasure. Sort of like what happened with electricity deregulation.

[dax]

9. That is what employers would say...

I handle many many workman's comp cases as a union steward and I can tell you what the problem is-they try to say its "all these workers who are faking it" the truth is, just like with welfare, there are FAR MORE WORKERS WHO NEVER FILE because they know their employer will treat them like dirt and if they need to find another job, it will be held against them. So get that part straight-its not the "fakers" that are causing the problem. Now hospitols and clinics do cause a problem-they bill for things the worker never receives-most people do not know how to review their bills and honestly, if worker's comp adjusters would just do THAT and call the person and say "did you have 3 MRI's and 6 x-rays etc. they could go after the real cheaters.
The other side of it is creativity-often times the person really cannot go back to what they were doing. For a short term investment of full education/training benefits and job counselling-they could prepare people for a new career and place them , ending the need for comp or maybe only supplemental comp. That is a real rub in the equation-if you have a high seniority heavy union job, it is damn near impossible to educate yourself into a position with equivalent pay and benefits. The real solution is for all workers to get organized and bring themselves up out of the low wage pit. But in all fairness, if the job destroys your ability to work as you did before (and don't forget that it also means you can't hike, bike ski fish or or pick up the grandkids- whatever body part is hurt) then the insurance should pay the difference in what one earned before and benefits, and the new position one gets qualified for. It is complex and simple solutions don work and SAFETY over PRODUCTIVITY is the permanent fix-since OSHA started, we went from 11 injury/deaths per 100 workers a year to 5.9 per 100 in 2001. ergonomics standards are of paramount importance but Bush killed those. Nice Worker's memorial day gift from Arnie-gonna cut comp-Cali folks ought to burn him in effigy at their memorials April 28- unless he comes up with a plan to improve safety. Cal has a lot of sweatshops, farmworkers, and attendant care workers-all unsafe environments with minimal regulation.

[DBoon]

14. Yes, I've heard there are few out-and-out fraud cases

A lot of grey areas, though, where the system gets stretched (often at the instigation of the doctor or lawyer).

True intentionally fraudulent claims are few.

And the benefits the workers themselves get are pathetic. That's the sad part of the whole thing.

Maybe we need socialized medicine, at least for workplace injuries?

[liberalnurse]

17. Fraud investigation does not take legislation.

Employers are not accepting responsibility. Injuries occur when safety is abandoned....thus you have work injury claims.

[w4rma]

3. North Mexico, here we come. (n/t)

[revcarol]

5. If you're counting on workmen's comp to live,

BANG, you're dead!!

[teryang]

11. No matter how much WC payouts are reduced

...the insurance rates continue to climb. Every WC adjuster I ever met was a liar. Some claimants are frauds but it is usually easy to prove. Stonewalling defeats most claimants with legitimate claims. Only the most stubborn and determined claimants with meritorious claims win comp disputes. Repuke governments make no effort whatever to control insurance companies or other financial services. Insurance companies are having a free for all. The small employers who cannot pool or self insure are getting screwed by the insurance companies. Then it is blamed on the claimants.

WC payouts in Florida are so small and getting benefits (wage loss) is so difficult, WC fraud isn't even worth the effort. Medical care must be approved in advance by the carrier. Not much fraud opportunity there.

[liberalnurse]

18. I am in complete agreement.

I have seen it in Ohio too! As a nurse who has worked with return to work claims.

[MidwestMomma]

16. Another problem with slashing work comp benefits is many health plans

will not pay for work-related injuries. The good ones will pay if not covered by work comp but the bad ones won't pay for any work-related injury whether it is covered by work comp or not. That's one reason why lawyers get involved because you will have an employee injured at work who doesn't follow the proper procedures and then the claim is turned down by work comp and they are screwed.

I pay health insurance claims and I've seen this happen.

What I've also seen is that people do not want to go to the work comp doctor because they think they are not as competent as their regular doctor.

So basically you have a fight between the work comp carriers and the health insurance carriers with the little guy caught in between.

I agree with whoever said that work comp is an incentive to keep the workplace safe. It needs to be protected so that workers are protected.

[hang a left]

21. Really? What does this wise man with all his years of governing

experience see?

Oh......I get it now. He has been sent to rape and pilfer the peole of California with his gang of thugs that have done the same to our country. Now we will get our screwing at the state level as well.