STOCK MARKET WATCH, Wednesday April 28

[ozymandius]

Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Wednesday April 28, 2010

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON April 27, 2010

Dow... 10,991.99 -213.04 (-1.94%)
Nasdaq... 2,471.47 -51.48 (-2.08%)
S&P 500... 1,183.71 -28.34 (-2.39%)
Gold future... 1,165 +3.10 (+0.27%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.68 -0.12 (-3.23%)
30-Year Bond 4.57 -0.09 (-1.99%)

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Market Conditions During Trading Hours

Euro, Yen, Loonie, Silver and Gold

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Bush Administration Officials Convicted = 2
Names: David Safavian, James Fondren

Bush Administration Officials Charged = 1
Name(s): Richard Lopez Razo

Financial Sector Officials Convicted since 1/20/09 = 11

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This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.

Read more: du

[ozymandius]

1. Today's Reports

10:30 Crude Inventories 04/24
Briefing.com NA
Consensus NA
Prior 1.89M

14:15 FOMC Rate Decision 4/28
Briefing.com 0.25%
Consensus 0.25%
Prior 0.25%

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm

[ozymandius]

2. Oil slides to near $82 in Asia on Greece debt woes

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – Oil extended its losses, sliding to near $82 a barrel Wednesday in Asia amid concerns over the global economy recovery and expectations of rising crude inventories in the U.S.

Crude's slide follows falls in Asian stock markets Wednesday, dampened by the eurozone debt crisis after Standard and Poor's downgraded the debt of Greece and Portugal. Concerns are mounting that the problems could damage the global economic recovery and hurt oil demand.

Crude's bearishness is also partly due to expectations that the U.S. government's inventory report due later Wednesday will show a further rise in crude oil and gasoline stocks, he said. A report by the American Petroleum Institute late Tuesday showed gains in crude and gasoline inventories, piling pressure on the market, he said.

In other Nymex trading in May contracts, heating oil fell 0.18 cent to $2.2285 a gallon, and gasoline dropped 0.53 cents to $2.3215 a gallon. Natural gas rose 1.4 cent to $4.23 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices

[tclambert]

44. So what does Sarah Palin say since that oil rig blew up in the Gulf?

"Spill, baby, spill!"

[ozymandius]

3. GOP votes 'no,' looks to 'yes' on their own terms

WASHINGTON – Republicans are voting "no" so that some of them can get to "yes" on tightening the reins on Wall Street.

Outnumbered by Democrats, Senate Republicans have held together for two days, twice blocking the start of debate on new financial regulations in hopes of negotiating changes they would be unable to win through amendments on the Senate floor.

Few doubt that the Senate will pass a broad overhaul of financial regulations in an attempt to prevent a recurrence of the crisis that nearly caused a Wall Street collapse in 2008. But Republicans want their imprint on the bill. And bankers appear to want them to succeed as well.

If campaign contributions are any barometer, large Wall Street institutions approve of what Senate Republicans have been doing to alter the regulatory regime envisioned by the Obama administration and its Democratic allies.

A spot check of contributions by The Associated Press showed that Goldman Sachs' PAC, which contributed predominantly to Democrats between 2007 and 2009, shifted to Republicans in March, contributing $167,500 to Republican members of Congress and their political committees and $117,000 to Democrats. Similar patterns emerged for JPMorgan Chase and Morgan Stanley, whose PACs both shifted to Republicans last month.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100428/ap_on_bi_ge/us_financial_overhaul

[ozymandius]

11. Senate Republicans Again Block Debate on Financial Overhaul

Senate Republicans unanimously voted again to block debate over legislation rewriting the rules of U.S. finance, embracing a strategy that party lawmakers argue will yield political and policy gains.

Democrats say yesterday’s vote, coming as Goldman Sachs Group Inc. executives were being questioned by a Senate panel, is a dangerous gamble for Republicans, given public anger over Wall Street and support for new regulations.

“This is political dynamite, and I think Republicans have lit the fuse,” Senator Robert Menendez, a New Jersey Democrat who heads the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, told reporters.

Senate Republican leaders are pressing their 41 party members to stay united against the Democratic plan, saying that will give them maximum leverage to change key provisions in a bill calling for the biggest overhaul of financial rules since the 1930s.

After yesterday’s vote, Dodd said he and Shelby made progress on one sticking point -- how to create a mechanism for unwinding failing financial firms. He and Shelby were down to “workable issues” on the provision, Dodd told reporters after meeting with Shelby.

Among other changes, Republicans want to limit the regulation of derivatives and curtail the scope of a new consumer protection bureau.

http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-28/republicans-block-finance-bill-debate-again-cite-benefits-of-saying-no-.html

---

We need to thank the Republican members of the Senate for siding with the banksters. The progressive cause's gold mine just keeps getting richer with their resistance.

[florida08]

17. some of the moderate republicans

will break ranks no matter how much the banksters give them. Public opinion is in the tank and fortunately that's what will drive passage of reform. Another vote coming today.

[Demeter]

19. Never Underestimate the Stupidity and Cupidity of the Senate

Just assume the worst and you may occasionally be pleasantly surprised.

[florida08]

20. you do have a point

[ozymandius]

4. Fed opens two-day session likely to hold rates

WASHINGTON (AFP) – The Federal Reserve is on Wednesday expected to maintain ultra-low borrowing rates as the need to bolster the economic recovery is again seen trumping inflation concerns.

The 10 members of the board began a two-day meeting Tuesday to discuss whether or not to raise the main US interest rate from a zero-to-0.25-percent range where it has been since December 2008.

In past meetings the Fed has pointed to historically low rates as crucial to support the economic recovery -- keeping borrowing costs low and fueling spending.

Analysts said they expected interest rates to stay the same and the Fed's language to remain largely unchanged, even if it describes improvements in the economic outlook.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100428/pl_afp/useconomybankrate

[ozymandius]

5. Levin asks Goldman: Was it just hedging, or something worse?

WASHINGTON — A Senate investigations panel confronted Goldman Sachs executives Tuesday with evidence that the firm peddled subprime mortgage securities its traders considered to be "crap" as they secretly made huge bets on a housing downturn.

Sen. Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat, culminated more than 10 hours of often-contentious testimony by telling Goldman's top officer, chief executive Lloyd Blankfein, that the firm had "a fundamental conflict" with its clients' interests as it exited the home mortgage market in 2006 and 2007.

Blankfein, whose company is facing civil fraud charges from the Securities and Exchange Commission over one of its subprime deals, declined to give ground. He denied that Goldman made massive "short," or negative, bets on subprime mortgage securities. Further, he said, Goldman had no obligation to divulge its short bets in its role as a market maker for sophisticated institutional investors.

Levin and his subcommittee colleagues spent much of the day questioning four current and former Goldman traders and the company's chief financial and risk officers about more than 170 company e-mails and documents describing how the firm escaped the subprime market. Levin contended that Goldman racked up billions of dollars in profits in 2007 by making exotic, insurance-like bets on a housing collapse — sometimes wagering against securities in offshore deals that Goldman actually designed.

In one deal, which Levin raised again and again, a Goldman executive labeled the mortgage securities "shitty."

Levin recounted for Blankfein a litany of failed deals from 2006 and 2007 that totaled $3.5 billion in which he said that "clients lost, Goldman profited."

At another point, Levin repeatedly attacked Blankfein's contention that the firm was only modestly betting against the housing market. "You were short like crazy," he said. "You came out ahead in a market that crashed."

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/04/27/93010/levin-asks-goldman-was-it-just.html#ixzz0mO39XS5I

[ozymandius]

12. Naked Capitalism offers a synopsis on the GS hearings

Notes on Senate Hearings on Goldman Sachs (Updated as of End of Hearings)

Opening Remarks Overview:

The Senate committee presented a case that sought to refute the prior public statements of Goldman Sachs and establish that Goldman was, in fact, betting against clients and had rampant, and unacceptable, conflicts of interest. Senators Levin, Collins, McCain and McKaskill made statements that seem to anticipate many of the defenses that Goldman might make. An important theme of what the Senators are presenting is that, as Republican Senator McCain stated, Goldman will be judged in the court of public opinion, as well as in the legal courts. Their activity appears to be unethical and such activity needs to be reformed.

In the scheme of things, the committee seems well prepared and working with consistent themes: unethical behavior, non-productive gambling, that caused damage to the country even as Goldman reaped large profits.

Goldman employees read prepared statements that emphasized the prior talking points of the firm. They break no new ground. The statements will soon prove to inadequate to prepare them for the line of questioning that the Senators take.

Senator Levin launches in detailed review of certain particularly toxic 2007 Goldman deals, including Anderson CDO, a Freemont MBS and the Timberwolf CDO. Levin is unable to get Sparks to concede whether he has a duty to let clients know that they were betting against the deals. Levin notes that a Goldman employee identifies that Timberwolf is a “shitty deal” but then continued to make it a number one priority to sell the deal to clients. Sparks stammers and equivocates, and Levin concludes that he is unwilling to answer the question of whether they had a responsibility to reveal Goldman had an adverse interest to potential investors.

It seems clear that the Goldman executives were completely unprepared for this line of hostile questioning and have no ready responses. How this could be and how they could not have anticipated how they would be grilled, is a true mystery.

much more at link...

[rfranklin]

13. Morning Joe, CNBC taking up Goldman's side...

Some Wall Street guy on CNBC talking about the "war on wealth." That's a good one. Another guest on Morning Joe saying how the SEC has no case. They're closing ranks.

[Ghost Dog]

16. "That's a good one".

Too fucking right.

[burf]

25. May I humbly submit my own comparison

to the hearings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs

Good day to all!

Still dogless in Dent.

[florida08]

18. Goldman Sachs

even figured out how to short entire countries. The scam that almost destroyed Greece was really not much different than the CDO scheme that they were charged with last Friday. In that one, they packaged together the country’s debt and sold it to investors, and then knowing that Greece was in trouble, betrayed them and their own clients by betting on….and in the process helping to cause…the collapse of an entire country’s economy. And Paulson teamed up with Paulson on that one as well, making a killing on their own bets that Greece would collapse.

http://www.faulkingtruth.com/Articles/Investing101/1092.html

[Po_d Mainiac]

21. The Post's headline...Sachs of S%&T! n/t

[tclambert]

45. One of the Goldman execs said, "Our customers' trust is very important to us."

That was in non-response to the question, "Were you working in your customers' best interests." See, he didn't claim being trustworthy was important, or actually earning their trust. If they could trick customers into trusting them, well, that's enough to make his statement true-ish. To keep their trust, that's why you have to lie to them.

I almost expected him to continue with the old joke: "Sincerity is the most important thing in sales. Once you learn to fake that, you've got it made."

[Hissyspit]

6. Dow Closes Below 11,000 After 213-Point Plunge (Amid European Debt Concerns/Goldman Testimony)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4358760

[ozymandius]

8. Portuguese debt downgraded by Standard & Poor's

LISBON, Portugal (AP) — Debt-burdened Portugal came under increased market pressure Tuesday, as borrowing costs surged and stocks fell sharply amid fears that a debt crisis in Greece would spread to other European countries with weak government finances.

The market drops deepened the government's woes as it faced a strike by public transport workers over a pay freeze designed to help curb state spending.

Portugal is trying to avoid the fate of Greece, which is facing a full-fledged debt crisis as markets fear Athens will have to restructure its heavy debt load. Soaring interest rates demanded by bond investors have forced Athens to appeal to other eurozone countries and the International Monetary Fund for euro45 billion bailout loans.

The interest rate gap, or spread, between Portuguese and benchmark German 10-year bonds trading on financial markets — a key indicator — rose 32 basis points, or 0.32 percentage points, to hit 5.51 percentage points. It was the widest gap since the shared euro currency, which Portugal and 15 other nations use, came into circulation.

The Lisbon Stock Market's benchmark PSI-20 index, meanwhile, plunged 3.4 percent by early afternoon.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100427/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_portugal_financial_crisis

[ozymandius]

7. Greek financial crisis sends markets plunging

LONDON (AFP) – Greece's deepening financial crisis sent stock markets and the euro reeling again on Wednesday after its debt was slashed to junk status, fanning fears that the crisis-hit nation may default.

A fierce global equities sell-off was sparked on Tuesday after ratings agency Standard & Poor's cut Greek debt to junk status, while a downgrade to Portugal also stoked concerns about a widening eurozone crisis.

As the European Union announced on Wednesday that it would hold an emergency summit, the Frankfurt stock market plummeted 1.96 percent and Paris plunged 2.32 percent in morning deals.

London fell 1.24 percent, one day after suffering its biggest one-day loss since November.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100428/bs_afp/stocksforexbondseurope

[Ghost Dog]

15. Analysis: German chancellor steps up pressure on Greece

Peter Schwarz, WSWS, 28 April 2010

The German government is linking the provision of funds for Greece to entirely new conditions, thereby delaying financial aid.

Following Athens’ request for loans of 45 billion euros from the International Monetary Fund and the Eurozone countries—a bailout that had previously been agreed upon in principle—Chancellor Angela Merkel has made her consent dependent on Greece presenting a "three-year, sustainable and credible recovery programme". In practice, this means that the government of Prime Minister Georgis Papandreou must add a third round of austerity measures to the two draconian packages already adopted.

...

Germany has largely isolated itself in the European Union with its implacable attitude. In particular, the highly indebted countries of southern Europe, but also France, are accusing the German government of stoking a wave of speculation that has already driven up interest rates on Greek government bonds to record levels.

Even some German commentators are warning that Germany is undermining its own position, since it is one of the principle beneficiaries of the Eurozone area, which absorbs about 70 percent of German exports. Bankruptcy for Greece could trigger a chain reaction that would mean the end of the euro.

...

Merkel's Greek policy faces criticism from two sides. Her coalition partners—the Christian Democratic Union's sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU), and the Free Democratic Party (FDP)—accuse her of being too lenient towards the Greek government. On the other hand, sections of the Social Democratic Party and Merkel’s own Christian Democratic Union (CDU) accuse her of not acting quickly enough to support Greece.

In reality, the chancellor is following a clear line. Her main objective is to shift the full burden of the crisis onto the Greek population and force the Greek authorities to take whatever measures are necessary to carry this through. If the German government had immediately pledged support, writes the Süddeutsche Zeitung, "the pressure on the Greek government would have disappeared at once. Prime Minister George Papandreou would no longer have been able to bring a radical austerity programme before parliament as is now foreseen".

At the same time, Merkel has signalled to the banks that they need not worry about their money. Pro-government sources confirm that the chancellor never seriously considered Greek national bankruptcy. Internally, she made it clear from the beginning that the country could not be allowed to fail, and that ultimately support would be forthcoming. However, her intention was to drive up the price of a rescue package.

Merkel's priority is not Greece, but Germany and Europe as a whole. Greece serves as a test case. It is a proving ground to see how the working class can be made to pay for the huge deficits in the budgets of all countries arising from the international financial crisis and the rescue packages to save the banks.

Dramatic cuts in wages, pensions and public spending such as those currently being imposed by Papandreou on the Greek population are also planned for Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Britain, France and Germany itself. Greece is being closely monitored to see how far Papandreou can go without provoking a popular revolt, and to what extent the unions and pseudo-left organizations such as the petty-bourgeois SYRIZA are able to keep the social opposition under control.

It is in this context that the anti-Greek hysteria being fanned by the German media should be seen. It serves a particular purpose: to prevent any solidarity between the German and Greek working classes.

...

It is the gutter press belonging to the Springer-Verlag group that is playing the leading role in the anti-Greek smear campaign and the drive to stir up backward prejudices. For weeks, the tabloid Bild newspaper has told its readers that the "Greek system" consists of "corruption and nepotism", and conducted a witch-hunt against the "bankrupt Greeks", whose "luxury pensions" must be paid by Germans. Bild readers are not told about the low incomes and pensions in Greece, nor the fact that the cost of living has risen to German levels since the introduction of the euro.

...

The object of this propaganda is to cover up the fact that Greek society—like German—is divided into classes, and that millions of Greeks live in abject poverty, while a small elite has enriched itself thanks to its relations with the European Union.

/More... http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/apr2010/pers-a28.shtml

(Emphasis added).

(x-post in editorials/articles: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x532400 )

[Ghost Dog]

22. Pressure grows on Germany to back Greek bailout

BERLIN (Reuters) – German politicians came under pressure Wednesday to cast aside their doubts over a bailout for Greece, with markets increasingly alarmed that Athens may default on its debt and trigger a meltdown elsewhere in Europe.

The heads of the European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund were both due to brief German lawmakers about the growing crisis that is pounding global stocks and driving up borrowing costs for several euro zone countries.

European Commission officials dismissed any talk of a restructuring of Greece's debt mountain, which totaled 115 percent of gross domestic product last year and is projected to push even higher as Athens struggles to tame its huge deficit.

However, the spread between Greek and German bonds hit record highs Wednesday and the cost of insuring Greek debt rose above Venezuela's, according to CMA Datavision, suggesting the market believes Greece is more likely than not to default.

...

European Central Bank Executive Board member Juergen Stark said EU governments must move rapidly to put their finances in order, adding that current fiscal policies were not sustainable.

"The onus is now on governments to ensure that the crisis that initially affected the financial sector, and subsequently the real economy, does not lead to a full-blown sovereign debt crisis," Stark said.

"Averting it will require very ambitious and credible fiscal consolidation efforts. In fact, substantially stronger consolidation efforts than those conceived so far."

EMERGENCY SUMMIT

European Union President Herman Van Rompuy said he would convene a summit of euro zone countries around May 10 and insisted there would be no restructuring of Greek debt.

"Our governments are fully committed to provide support for Greece to ensure the stability of the euro zone," Van Rompuy, in Tokyo for a EU-Japan summit, told a news conference.

"I'm ... fully confident that an agreement will be reached in the coming days on a very strong and ambitious adjustment program which will set a credible, medium-term strategy for the Greek economy."

/... http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100428/bs_nm/us_eurozone

[Festivito]

9. Debt: 04/26/2010 12,880,364,008,405.96 (UP 3,168,086,031.05) (Mon)

(Up a small amount, 19-million. I don't know why I wrote that it went down in yesterday's secondary post. My bad. Do have a good morning.)

(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 8,354,812,455,514.62 + 4,525,551,552,891.34
UP 19,005,411.26 + UP 3,149,080,619.79

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 309-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.23 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.7, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 13 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 309,148,054 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 04/09/2010 15:49 -> 309,034,742
Currently, each of these Americans owe $41,664.06.
A family of three owes $124,992.19. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is 8,839,558,390.92.
The average for the last 30 days would be 6,482,342,820.01.
The average for the last 31 days would be 6,273,234,987.10.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 142 reports in 208 days of FY2010 averaging 6.83B$ per report, 4.67B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 1,000 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.3 and 19.2T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
04/26/2010 12,880,364,008,405.96 BHO (UP 2,253,486,959,492.88 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +0,970,535,004,894.20 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof10 +1,703,102,292,242.23 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
04/06/2010 +000,246,106,716.91 ------------********
04/07/2010 +000,926,408,143.83 ------------********
04/08/2010 +030,863,719,709.59 ------------**********
04/09/2010 -000,215,194,285.06 ---
04/12/2010 -000,193,173,374.30 --- Mon
04/13/2010 -000,086,542,536.22 ----
04/14/2010 +000,857,281,039.39 ------------********
04/15/2010 +039,328,943,525.65 ------------**********
04/16/2010 -000,121,400,113.90 ---
04/19/2010 -017,215,897,730.16 - Mon
04/20/2010 +000,349,194,756.21 ------------********
04/21/2010 +000,180,306,016.37 ------------********
04/22/2010 -015,686,359,446.12 -
04/23/2010 -000,156,047,055.50 ---
04/26/2010 +000,019,005,411.26 ------------******* Mon

39,096,350,777.95 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4358087&mesg_id=4358119

[JDPriestly]

14. Add to that the amount of student debt in the country

and the credit cared debt outstanding. The private indebtedness of families should also be considered.

And then there is the fact that many Americans have utterly no savings and will have to rely on Social Security, food stamps and public help as they age.

The current government debt is only a tiny part of the horrible financial mess.

How do we get out of this.

We really can't cut social programs. They are pretty minimal as it is. The only expenditures we can realistically cut are in our military.

Choices are raising taxes or cutting military outlays. Tax cuts will mean less money to pay off private debts and less money for people to save for retirement and invest. Cutting military outlays, especially money spent outside the U.S. is probably our only choice.

We can no longer afford a prosperous America and a sprawling empire. We will probably have to choose where we really need to have a military presence and pull out of the rest.

[DemReadingDU]

23. I was talking to spouse this morning about the debt

The radio was discussing that what's coming is not to the liking of Dems nor Repubs. Programs such as Social Security and Medicare would need to be cut (Dem uproar), and taxes need to be raised (Repub uproar).

I said what needs to be done is to cut the military budget.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rfranklin]

32. The military budget is the proberbial 800-pound gorilla...

No one wants to mention it. But it is eating us out of house and home.

[JDPriestly]

48. Social Security can't be cut. It is already at subsistence levels

(Remember, people who earn a lot of money plus Social Security pay taxes from their earnings.)

And taxes really can't be raised that much either. A little, yes, but not enough. Because if we raise taxes too much, especially if we raise them to pay the costs of our military which spends a lot of money in other countries, it's like raising interest rates too much, it will depress the economy further. That is why Obama's stimulus package included tax relief.

[tclambert]

53. Social security has never contributed to the national debt.

It has its very own taxation system (should be a model for other programs) and has always, always, always more than paid its way. In fact, the rest of the government borrows from the Social Security Trust Fund. The excess currently in the trust fund exceeds $2 trillion. Monkeying with Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit nor the national debt. All of that comes from a separate, inadequate, revenue stream.

Medicare and Medicaid also have their own taxation systems. These three combined make up the FICA entry on everybody's paycheck. I don't know offhand if Medicare and Medicaid run a surplus as Social Security does.

Republicans keep bringing up Social Security with the national debt because they have always hated Social Security, and have been fighting it since 1935. Realizing its popularity and the logic of it running with its own revenue stream, they try to confuse the issue by lumping it in with the rest of the deficit-laden budget, much of which they created with unfunded mandates.

If you want to put the budget process on a reasonable footing, demand that all programs have their own funding stream, so everyone can see the entry on their paycheck that pays for Defense, Education, the National Weather Service, etc. When they can easily compare the figures, THEN you'll hear some screaming about how much goes to what, especially Defense.

[Ghost Dog]

55. Especially, Defense.

Or, should that read: Agression.

Well said, tclambert.

[Festivito]

56. Debt: 04/27/2010 12,886,315,749,582.96 (UP 5,951,741,177.00) (Tue)

(Up a small amount. Good day.)

(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 8,355,547,299,451.72 + 4,530,768,450,131.24
UP 734,843,937.10 + UP 5,216,897,239.90

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 309-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.23 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.7, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 13 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 309,154,700 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 04/09/2010 15:49 -> 309,034,742
Currently, each of these Americans owe $41,682.42.
A family of three owes $125,047.26. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 23 reports in the last 30 to 32 days.
The average for the last 23 reports is 8,714,001,120.75.
The average for the last 30 days would be 6,680,734,192.57.
The average for the last 32 days would be 6,263,188,305.54.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 143 reports in 209 days of FY2010 averaging 6.83B$ per report, 4.67B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 999 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.3 and 19.1T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
04/27/2010 12,886,315,749,582.96 BHO (UP 2,259,438,700,669.88 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +0,976,486,746,071.20 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof10 +1,705,347,666,583.68 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
04/07/2010 +000,926,408,143.83 ------------********
04/08/2010 +030,863,719,709.59 ------------**********
04/09/2010 -000,215,194,285.06 ---
04/12/2010 -000,193,173,374.30 --- Mon
04/13/2010 -000,086,542,536.22 ----
04/14/2010 +000,857,281,039.39 ------------********
04/15/2010 +039,328,943,525.65 ------------**********
04/16/2010 -000,121,400,113.90 ---
04/19/2010 -017,215,897,730.16 - Mon
04/20/2010 +000,349,194,756.21 ------------********
04/21/2010 +000,180,306,016.37 ------------********
04/22/2010 -015,686,359,446.12 -
04/23/2010 -000,156,047,055.50 ---
04/26/2010 +000,019,005,411.26 ------------******* Mon
04/27/2010 +000,734,843,937.10 ------------********

39,585,087,998.14 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4358087&mesg_id=4358119

[ozymandius]

10. Barofsky Says Criminal Charges Possible in Alleged AIG Coverup

In Senate Finance Committee testimony on April 20, Barofsky said SIGTARP would investigate seven AIG-linked mortgage-related securities similar to Abacus 2007-AC1, the instrument underwritten by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. that is at the center of a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission lawsuit filed against the investment bank on April 16.

Barofsky and Geithner’s offices have gone toe-to-toe over AIG, alleged lax oversight of TARP funds and even over the question of whom Barofsky reports to.

Barofsky, a former federal prosecutor who was once the target of a kidnapping plot by Colombian drug traffickers, says he’s also looking into possible insider trading connected to TARP. He says his agency would want to know if bankers bought stock in their companies before it was made public that their institutions would get TARP money, for example.

From the day Congress created it, TARP has been troubled. Paulson crafted it as an initiative to buy the toxic assets that were then threatening to capsize the world’s banking system. Since then, the Treasury and Congress have transformed it into a hydra-headed beast encompassing 13 financial aid plans.

TARP had invested $204.9 billion in 707 banks, thrifts and credit unions through its Capital Purchase Program as of March 31; $69.1 billion remained to be paid back. It has committed to paying out $39.9 billion to modify mortgages, though it has disbursed only $91 million.

http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-28/barofsky-says-criminal-or-civil-charges-possible-in-alleged-aig-coverup.html

[Tansy_Gold]

24. Roughly 2/3 of the TARP money has been repaid.

Where did these on-the-brink-of-failure banks get the money so fast?


Just askin'.



Tansy Gold

[DemReadingDU]

26. manipulating the stock market upwards

raising interest rates on credit cards to 30%

raising banking fees

keeping toxic investments hidden off the books

cooking the books



just for starters,probably other ways

[Tansy_Gold]

28. See, I knew there had to be a logical, honest answer

it couldn't be all smoke and mirrors or something. Of course! They cooked the books! They stole from the poor to give to the rich! Exactly what successful banks are supposed to do!


I think I pissed off some of my friends at the coffee shop yesterday. One of them opened up the WSJ and there on the front page was the headline about Buffett persuading buying off the senate to water down the derivatives bill so it wouldn't cost him a few billion. I saw it and said, in my usual forceful voice, "Fuck you, Warren. Fuck you." One of my companions said something, laughing, and I repeated, "FUCK YOU, BUFFETT. How much is enough? How much more do you fucking need? FUCK YOU, WARREN BUFFETT."

Whatever patience I had with those who defend the uber-wealthy, like Buffett and Soros and Gates, because they give to charity and sometimes -- but obviously not always -- support that notion called "responsible wealth," that patience is gone.

A country founded on the basic principle of "all men /sic/ are created equal" should have no use for the obscenely wealthy. It should take as a matter of pride a taxation system that promotes both the creation and the sharing of wealth. Warren Buffett has billions that he cannot possibly spend in his lifetime, as do the other billionaires. Meanwhile, there are working people, people who make things, who provide real services, who can barely get by.

The teabaggers are delusional idiots who have no clue but provide merry entertainment for the idle rich. If we had no idle rich, we would have no teabaggers.



Tansy Gold, your friendly neighborhood socialist

[AnneD]

31. Tansy....

Wonder how much of a tip Warren leaves for that cheeseburger and Dr. Pepper he has for lunch. I don't think beef is THAT expensive in Omaha. The only hole I can see in his budget his his tip.


AnneD-as disillusioned as Tansy. Warren you broke my heart.

[rfranklin]

33. Some Wall Street dude was talking about the "War on Wealth"

on TV this morning--and he was aboslutely serious. No recognition of the huge transfer of wealth from the middle and lower classes to the uber wealthy in the past thirty years. It was part of the general pooh-poohing of the Goldman Sachs scandal that was going on.

[Tansy_Gold]

34. that's a war I think we can afford to wage

[Demeter]

37. A War that We Have to Win

It's actually a war against greed and theft.

[tclambert]

47. Of course "War on Wealth." How you gonna get any plunder from poor people?

It's like Willie Sutton said. You rob banks because that's where the money is.

[proudohioan]

29. My thoughts exactly....

How many of us could not only repay all of our debts,but turn our whole financial picture around in that amount of time??

[AnneD]

30. And more importantly......

where is all that profit that we were suppose to make on the bailouts. I know paying back early cuts into that-but were is the interest?

Just askin'.

AnneD, VP running mate of Tansy Gold

Real Change....you can put in the bank!

[FarCenter]

35. Citi and BofA needed the money

But the Treasury made all the top tier banks take money to disguise which were on the edge of collapse and which were not.

For example, Goldman Sach likely did not need the TARP money, since GS had already raised about 10 billion from Buffet and from a sale of stock.

[Demeter]

36. Invested Free Fed Money In Speculation, Of Course

Good morning, Tansy and AnneD

[Demeter]

38. How did we get a deleted message?

[Tansy_Gold]

39. a spammer

nothing to see here. move along. :evilgrin:

[DemReadingDU]

40. Spain debt downgraded by Standard & Poor's

4/28/10
Credit ratings agency Standard & Poor's has downgraded Spain in another widening of Europe's government debt crisis.

The move Wednesday follows its reductions of Portugal and Greece, which sent shock waves through world markets.

The agency says its decision to downgrade Spain's credit rating by one notch to AA from AA+ is due to its expectation that the country will suffer an "extended" period of subdued economic growth.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Spain-downgraded-Europe-debt-apf-1816859080.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=

[Ghost Dog]

41. Controlled Demolition! Now S & P Downgrades Spain!

Standard and Poor’s is on all out assault mode against European sovereign debt this week. Floor by floor by floor. It’s just downgraded Spain. No doubt the turmoil following on these downgrades is conveniently distracting from their central role in the CDO frauds that are presently being investigated inside the US . . . Gold soars, euro tumbles on Spain downgrade

/.. http://maxkeiser.com/2010/04/28/now-s-p-downgrades-spain/


S&P Release: http://www.standardandpoors.com/prot/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245210885343

The downgrade primarily reflects Standard & Poor’s downward revision of its medium-term macroeconomic projections. “We now believe that the Spanish economy’s shift away from credit-fuelled economic growth is likely to result in a more protracted period of sluggish activity than we previously assumed,” Standard & Poor’s credit analyst Marko Mrsnik said. “We now project that real GDP growth will average 0.7% annually in 2010-2016, versus our previous expectations of above 1% annually over this period.”

We have also revised our views on the GDP deflator, so that we now expect nominal GDP to regain the 2008 level by 2015; previously, we had assumed that nominal GDP would exceed the 2008 level in 2013. In addition, and while not factored into our base case, we have taken into account the possibility that Spanish public and private sector borrowing costs could remain elevated in 2010-2011 and further slow Spain’s recovery from the current recession. Our conclusion is that challenging medium-term economic conditions will further pressure Spain’s public finances, and additional measures are likely to be needed to underpin the government’s fiscal consolidation strategy and planned program of structural reforms.

We consider the main factors dampening Spain’s medium-term growth prospects to be:

- Private sector indebtedness at 178% of GDP, which in our estimation is higher than that of many of Spain’s peers;

- An inflexible labor market (we expect unemployment to reach 21% in 2010), which we believe is likely to slow the recovery of external price competitiveness;

- A fairly low export capacity–currently, Spain’s exports are close to 25% of GDP–coupled with eroded competitiveness due to past high increases in unit labor costs compared with those of its peers;

- The financial system’s asset quality, which in our opinion is under pressure as reflected in the recent revision of our Banking Industry Country Risk Assessment (BICRA) for Spain to group 3 from group 2.

/... FT Alphaville: http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/04/28/214791/sp-downgrades-spain-to-aa/

[Demeter]

42. I'm Trying Hard To See No Evil In All This Downgrading of Sovereign Debt

and I'm having a hard time of it. Most countries have seen little in the way of really bad developments; the changes have all been in the financial market. So why go and reduce everyone when it's the market that is failing, not the nations?

In other words, the speculators, esp. currency speculators, are putting the squeeze on. And Angela Merkel is letting them get purchase by being so contrary.

[Ghost Dog]

43. Well it is clear that S&P's precise timing with this

piece of financial terrorism announcement is self-explanatory, is it not?

Check out zerohedge comments here (and elsewhere): http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sp-rampage-downgrades-spain-aa-risks-budgetary-position-outlook-negative

eg:

"As long as Europe is broken, the US benefits. Pretty simple really."

[tclambert]

46. Meanwhile, Ford is down again today. It lost over $1.25 in two days.

From around $14.50 to $13.25. I would have sworn they announced PROFITS of $2 billion, twice what the street expected, just yesterday.

[hamerfan]

50. Every time Apple reports profits,

their stock takes a hit as well. Who knows? It sure goes against common sense (to me anyway).

[Ghost Dog]

49. "how long can we believe in democracy if this is allowed to continue"

After more than thirty years of the ultra right wing monetarist ideology taking over the west what have we got?..what have the majority of Greek citizens...or US citizens..or UK or French citizens got?...
more debt.....more unemployment....stagnant wage levels for at least thirty years...inflation on their goods...and basic foodstuffs....massive tax avoidance scandals...massive increases in financial fraud...fewer jobs .that are well paid or stable or long term...massive decreases in industrial output ...masssive transfer of wealth to private corporations and individuals...lower living standards...more stress...massive transfer of jobs abroad...the hoarding of between one third to nearly half of the worlds entire money supply in secret accounts in Switzerland ...more and more people made homeless...more and more companies bust....no real effort by any Govt to make derivatives illegal...no real effort by any Govt to make tax havens illegal..the weakening of democracy...by moving nearly all factors of production..energy and finance beyond the reach of elected assemblies...through privatisation...the lobbying with billions of dollars ..pounds and other currencies to ..buy elected assemblies..and the legal system ..the use of derivatives to short entire industries with 'shitty' deals...the private ownership of 90% of the worlds wealth by less than 1% ...of its popluation ...masses of people who work and yet live in poverty........and all of that is already happening in our democracies...taxes are avoided...massively ...by private multinationals...and encouraged in this by countries like Switzerland....a gigantic financial black hole at the center of Europe and the world...the financial bolt hole of every scummy anti democratic crook, drug money launderer,, fraudster,bent politician, dictator ...bent multinational, bent banker and only God knows what else.....how long can we believe in democracy if this is allowed to continue....look at the privatised france telecom last year after 76 employees committed suicide...over three years...the company said.."it was acceptable"...only after massive complaints was any action taken....wtf kind of regime is that?...that is not the France I visited as a child to visit my relatives in Savoy.....private banking is a curse to us all...and it should be nationalised....derivatives made illegal....tax havens made illegal....and only elected Govt Treasuries to issue money and credit ...not as is currently done with about 90% of all credti in our economies issued and controlled by private fractional reserve bankers...who already act like a new aristocracy liviing beyond the influence our laws and elected assemblies...they are an anethema to modern democracy and business..a giant vampire squid that daily shoves its blood funnels into our communities and our democratic countries....either democracy takes back the power to issue its own monies or watch the private bankers become the new emperors of the entire Earth and all its peoples and lands their new debt slaves..and subjects...unelected..unnaccountable.uncontrollable...above the law...masters of all they deem .the new oligarchy that will last a thousand years...Hail Caeser Hail Caeser...Hail Caeser......Hail Caeser.....they will not allow democracy to survive......do you see any Govt making derivatives illegal?...do you see any Govt making tax havens illegal?...why not?..perhaps it is already too late for democracy...who will vote for starvation wages...no welfare..the enforcement of low paid work?...why do all our democracies owe this debt and to whom?....

The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity.?
- Abraham Lincoln

The powers of financial capitalism had a far-reaching plan, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole...Their secret is that they have annexed from governments, monarchies, and republics the power to create the world's money..." Prof. Carroll Quigley,

Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money." - Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of the Bank of England (in the 1920s); reputed to be the 2nd wealthiest man in England at that time

/... Comment at the Guardian's informative liveblog, here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2010/apr/28/greece-financial-crisis?showallcomments=true#comment-51

[bread_and_roses]

51. sounds about right to me

I can't evaluate most of the substance of the quotes, but of the third, I'd say he left out rapacious imperialism/religious fanaticism (depending on how you describe the Crusades) as an origin of banking, if the tales of the Templars wealth are true. Of course, both those could aptly if mildly be described as "iniquity" so I guess it still applies.

[Ghost Dog]

52. Uh huh. And around about there, in history, you will find

the origins of Islam.

[Tansy_Gold]

57. Islam predates the Crusades by 400 + years.

How much, in terms of "banking" as we know it today, did the Templars invent, and how much did they steal from the existing Arab/Islamic empires?

Why did "The Enlightenment," which gets a lot of credit for engendering so many "democracies," never seem to reach the Muslim world? Or did it? What happened?



How did "Western Civilization" survive its religious wars (for the most part) but Islam still seems beset with them?





Tansy Gold

[Ghost Dog]

58. Good questions. I mean origins of both, Tansy, post-Rome:

(I have no scholarship in this field. I deeply regret not having studied the Arabic language in my youth, so as to be able to delve deeply into Islamic archives). But:

During the Islamic Golden Age, early forms of proto-capitalism and free markets were present in the Caliphate,<1> where an early market economy and an early form of mercantilism were developed between the 8th-12th centuries, which some refer to as "Islamic capitalism".<2> A vigorous monetary economy was created on the basis of the expanding levels of circulation of a stable, high-value currency (the dinar) and the integration of monetary areas that were previously independent.

A number of innovative concepts and techniques were applied in early Islamic banking, including bills of exchange, the first forms of partnership (mufawada) such as limited partnerships (mudaraba), and the earliest forms of capital (al-mal), capital accumulation (nama al-mal),<3> cheques, promissory notes,<4> trusts (see Waqf), startup companies,<5> transactional accounts, loaning, ledgers and assignments.<6> Organizational enterprises similar to corporations independent from the state also existed in the medieval Islamic world, while the agency institution was also introduced during that time.<7><8> Many of these early capitalist concepts were adopted and further advanced in medieval Europe from the 13th century onwards.<3>

/... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking#History_of_Islamic_banking

Some argue early Islamic theory and practice formed a "coherent" economic system with "a blueprint for a new order in society, in which all participants would be treated more fairly". Michael Bonner, for example, has written that an "economy of poverty" prevailed in Islam until the 13th and 14th centuries. Under this system God's guidance made sure the flow of money and goods was "purified" by being channeled from those who had much of it to those who had little by encouraging zakat (charity) and discouraging riba (usury/interest) on loans. Bonner maintains the prophet also helped poor traders by allowing only tents, not permanent buildings in the market of Medina, and not charging fees and rents there.<3>

Social responsibility and corporate social responsibility in commerce was stressed in Islamic sociology. The development of Islamic banks and Islamic economics was a side effect of this sociology: usury was rather severely restrained, no interest rate was allowed, and investors were not permitted to escape the consequences of any failed venture—all financing was equity financing (Musharaka). In not letting borrowers bear all the risk/cost of a failure, an extreme disparity of outcomes between "partners" is thus avoided. Ultimately this serves a social harmony purpose. Muslims also could not and cannot (in shariah) finance any dealings in forbidden goods or activities, such as wine, pork, gambling, etc. Thus ethical investing is the only acceptable investing, and moral purchasing is encouraged.<4>

/... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_economics_in_the_world

My reading of modern Iberian history indicates that, post-Rome under the Visigoths, Christian Bishops, on the one hand, and (increasingly harrased) Jewish communities, on the other, held civilisation (and its economics) together, until Islam arrived. I'm not sure which group could be called 'champions' of the Roman concepts, traditions and codified body of laws known today as 'jurisprudence' (rule of law), but Islamic society was certainly founded on that (and on tax-collecting).

[Ghost Dog]

54. BTW: Re: "Iniquity" (not such a mild term?)

iniquity

Main Entry: in·iq·ui·ty
Pronunciation: \-kwə-tē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural in·iq·ui·ties
Etymology: Middle English iniquite, from Anglo-French iniquité, from Latin iniquitat-, iniquitas, from iniquus uneven, from in- + aequus equal
Date: 14th century

1 : gross injustice : wickedness
2 : a wicked act or thing : sin

/.. http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/iniquity

iniquity
Also found in: Legal, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia, Hutchinson 0.09 sec.
in·iq·ui·ty
(-nkw-t)
n. pl. in·iq·ui·ties
1. Gross immorality or injustice; wickedness.
2. A grossly immoral act; a sin.


The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
iniquity <ɪˈnɪkwɪtɪ>
n pl -ties
1. lack of justice or righteousness; wickedness; injustice
2. a wicked act; sin

iniquitous adj
iniquitously adv
iniquitousness n

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. iniquity - absence of moral or spiritual values; "the powers of darkness"
dark, wickedness, darkness
condition, status - a state at a particular time; "a condition (or state) of disrepair"; "the current status of the arms negotiations"
foulness - disgusting wickedness and immorality; "he understood the foulness of sin"; "his display of foulness deserved severe punishment"; "mouths which speak such foulness must be cleansed"
2. iniquityiniquity - morally objectionable behavior
evil, wickedness, immorality
evildoing, transgression - the act of transgressing; the violation of a law or a duty or moral principle; "the boy was punished for the transgressions of his father"
devilry, deviltry - wicked and cruel behavior
foul play - unfair or dishonest behavior (especially involving violence)
irreverence, violation - a disrespectful act
sexual immorality - the evil ascribed to sexual acts that violate social conventions; "sexual immorality is the major reason for last year's record number of abortions"
3. iniquityiniquity - an unjust act
injustice, shabbiness, unfairness
actus reus, wrongful conduct, misconduct, wrongdoing - activity that transgresses moral or civil law; "he denied any wrongdoing"

/.. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/iniquity

One could go on, but you get the idea. Words are not mere TV soundbites, you know. And I don't think we're quite, historically, at the same level as the Bushian 'evildoer' wingnuts, neocons etc. here.