Oklahoma Houses passes bill outlawing militia and gang recruiting

[RamboLiberal]

Source: NewsOK

Recruiting membership in an unauthorized militia or the Ku Klux Klan would be a crime if legislation approved Thursday by the House of Representatives becomes law.

"This is making unauthorized militias illegal,” said Rep. Mike Shelton, the amendment’s author.

Both groups were added in an amendment to Senate Bill 2018, which would increase the penalty for aiding or soliciting gang membership from one year in prison to five years in prison. It also would create a new crime for gang-related offenses as a condition of membership, with the penalty being five years in prison.

"There has been a great deal of attention given to increasing the penalties for those involved in gang activity, and while I agree that gangs are terrorizing many communities, they are not the only such threat in our state,” said Shelton, D-Oklahoma City.

"In Oklahoma, we have seen the damage done by militia fanatics,” said Shelton, referring to the truck bombing 15 years ago of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. "The Ku Klux Klan has a long history of violence and domestic terrorism,” he said.





Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-house-passes-bill-outlawing-militias-and-gang-recruiting/article/3456132

[Ian David]

1. I agree with the spirit of the law, but I'm afraid it might violate Freedom of Association.

Also, I've seen other anti-gang laws stupidly enforced.

For example, Boy Scouts in uniform on field trips told that they can't walk through a shopping mall because their uniforms make them subject to an anti-gang law.

[TheWraith]

4. Agreed. Besides which, suppressing the fringe only makes them more dangerous.

It automatically criminalizes groups that might otherwise be, if not harmless, then at least inactive.

[TheWraith]

5. Dupe, self-delete. nt

[HALO141]

6. +1 n/t

[No Elephants]

18. Agree on both Freedom of Association and "slippery slope" as to enforcement.

However, every Constitutional right has its limits. For example, neither freedom of association nor freedom of speech protects anyone from being charged with conspiracy to commit a crime. So, it is conceivable that a properly drafted law could pass constitutional muster. And, if the law is neither unconstitutionally vague nor unconstitutionally over broad, enforcement would not present more of a problem than enforcement of any other criminal law presents.

[depakid]

24. From what I can tell, something like the boy scouts could be an "unuthorized militia"

if Oklahoma deemed it to be.

You nailed it with vague and overbroad- not that constitutional concerns matter one iota to the nutters in the Oklahoma legislature.

[Old Troop]

28. Doesn't a crime have to be committed first?

[Mari333]

2. as much as I detest those groups, there is such a thing as freedom of assembly

[zipplewrath]

3. Sounds good.... until

The definition of gang is a bit like pornography. We all know what we are talking about, right until we get to court.

[pinboy3niner]

7. Good point

The definition of a criminal gang ought to be easier to establish, based on actual evidence of (and court convictions for) criminal enterprise. Such evidence may be lacking in the case of militias, though.

[No Elephants]

19. Even a murder charge is open to that, though. Was it murder, or was it "justifiable homicide."

Was it murder, or the random act of an insane person? Was it murder, or an unavoidable accident? And so on.

It's in part a writing problem--how you write the law--and, in part, an enforcement problem. Neither of those problems means you should forever give up on the concept.

[notadmblnd]

8. Can it be used to outlaw groups like Blackwater/XE and Triple Canopy?

[onenote]

9. here is how the bill defines a "criminal street gang"

F. “Criminal street gang” means any ongoing organization, association, or group of five or more persons including, but not limited to, the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Brotherhood and any independent military organization that is neither recognized nor authorized by the Commander in Chief of the Militia for the State of Oklahoma, that specifically either promotes, sponsors, or assists in, or participates in, and requires as a condition of membership or continued membership, the commission of one or more of the following criminal acts: (extensive list of crimes against persons or property follows).


Interestingly, as written, if the Commander in Chief of the State Militia recognizes or authorizes a group, it is okay even if it promotes, sponsors, or assists in, or participates and requires as a condition of membership or continued membership the commission of a crime against persons or property.

[AlbertCat]

10. Are they gonna make gang members get an ultrasound?

By Sept, it will be illegal to do anything west of the Mississippi.

[Iliyah]

11. Not likely

re: ultrasounds unless they are women who in Oakie are preferred in essence to be property and of course property does not have rights nor choice.

[RamboLiberal]

12. Sludge of course had to put a racist spin on it

Oklahoma banning Militias, but not Black Panthers...

Headline on the site.

[Ter]

13. Militias can't be outlawed

By a mere state legislature.

[cstanleytech]

15. Shhhh, dont tell them its to much fun watching the idiots pass laws

that will in the end just put money in the pockets of the lawyers as the laws are fought in court and then thrown out.

[No Elephants]

20. Please see Reply #9. Maybe Reply ##s 18 and 19, as well.

[No Elephants]

21. Self Delete

[No Elephants]

25. That's not what the law does. See Reply #9.

What counts is the language of the statute itself, not what is said to the press.

[cstanleytech]

14. Wonder how soon they will go after the NRA then

:popcorn:

[No Elephants]

22. Does the NRA require commission of a crime as a condition of membership or continued membership?

[cstanleytech]

27. I apologize, to you and to everyone here I apologize that you missed out on having a sense of humor

[Paladin]

29. No, But It Helps If You Want To Be Its Leader.

Does the name "Harlan Carter" ring a bell with you?

[Rozlee]

16. "Drive by shootings?" What about drive by throwing bricks at democratic congressmen's windows?

When members of certain Tea Party groups go around doing stuff like that and their fellow members do nothing about it--they even go on Faux News and say Democrats "encouraged" it--is it gangland activity? Jump on my heinie all you want, but I say it's pretty close to the spirit of a gang, if not outright a gang.

[No Elephants]

26. This statute is aimed only at recruiting for gangs in which committing a crime--any crime--

is a condition for membership or continued membership. It is not intended to cover every possible crime. However, throwing bricks through other folks' windows is no doubt a crime under some other provision of the Oklahoma criminal code.

If throwing bricks through someone else's window (or committing some other crime) were a condition of belonging to the Tea Party, then this statute would indeed make recruiting for the Tea Party illegal.

Some liberals allegedly attacked Neo Nazi "peaceful" demonstrators in Los Angeles not long ago. That's a crime. They were arrested. But, it should not be illegal to recruit for the Democratic Party as a result of that.

[crim son]

17. If this particular law cannot be enforced, then make a law that can.

Enough of these people and their right to terrorize and be assholes. If we let them proliferate unchecked they will one day outnumber the rest of us.

Sometimes it is very hard to live in this country where some freedoms are guaranteed, some are conditional and some, it depends on who asks.

[musette_sf]

23. And double the max, ten years in prison

for militias and gangs that recruit fetuses.

Twenty for recruiting disabled fetuses.

Thirty to life for recruiting rape fetuses.