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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 09:52 AM
Original message
Pelosi confident in Senate climate action despite hurdles
Source: The Hill

Pelosi confident in Senate climate action despite hurdles
By Ben Geman - 05/04/10 09:37 AM ET

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told a crowd of union members and environmentalists Tuesday that the Senate is “very close” to passing a sweeping energy and climate change bill.

“The Senate is very close and with your advocacy I think we can pretty soon put legislation on the president’s desk that will be very important to our national security, to our children's health, to our innovation and our competitiveness...and to our moral responsibility with regard to the planet,” Pelosi said.

Pelosi spoke at the Good Jobs, Green Jobs conference in Washington, D.C., sponsored by unions and environmental groups, including the United Steelworkers and the Sierra Club, as well as Alcoa and other companies.

The House passed a major climate and energy bill almost a year ago, but the Senate has yet to act. Climate change is a signature issue for Pelosi.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677-e2-wire/95843-pelosi-expresses-confidence-in-senate-climate-action-despite-hurdles
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. Global Warming is about HEAT ... heating up the atmosphere creates chaotic weather...
We have to get electric cars on our roads and gas-guzzlers out --

There will be PEAK oil because it's going to be too expensive to use it.

This is going to change our suburbs - business -- travel --

We have to move to mass transportation -- especially in getting rid of the

cars that simply sit at our RR stations every day where trolleys and buses

could be used to transport commuters.

We also have to address issues of alternative energy -- and that's not

"drill, baby, drill" as Sen. John Kerry seems to be promoting -- and Obama!!

All of the research on alternative energy has been forestalled -- seemingly

by those private interests who control our natural resources for their private

profit.

NATIONALIZE the oil industry!



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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. John Kerry is not promoting drill baby drill
He has fought drilling in many places through his career and he has the Senate's best environmental life time record.

The only reason that he is making concession is because the alternative is to not have a climate change bill. The key is the need to price carbon. That is what every expert on how to do this has said. Senator Kerry has fought for the environment since he entered the Senate.

The fact though is that it is becoming less likely that there will be a Senate bill. The reasons is that there are too many Senators who are making demands that are inconsistent with the goals.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Sen. John Kerry... "planned to include measures that promote wider offshore drilling . .. "
The senators crafting the bill – John Kerry (D-Mass.), Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) – have planned to include measures that

promote wider offshore drilling.



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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Those plans included what Obama already agreed to
in order to get votes of Senators like Webb, Warner, and Beiglich - who would otherwise not vote for the bill. If they didn't do this and other things the bill would fail.

The result then would be the Bingaman energy only bill - which includes the drilling.

Kerry, in a long Politico interview spoke of the compromises pulling everyone into zones of discomfort. This was very obviously Kerry's. The trade off though was something that was going to happen anyway being included in a bill with his name on it - but which was the first real step to dealing with climate change.

He did NOT include it in Kerry/Boxer - but there were not enough votes. For that you can blame Senators like Webb and Warner and Senators like the 14 Democratic coal state Senators, including Franken and Feingold and of course, all the Republicans.

At this point, I really think the climate bill is dead - and what will pass is Bingaman's bill which will pass with many Republicans. But, we might be better off with the Kerry/Lieberman/Graham bill that in addition to all the fossil fuel and nuclear provisions has a price on carbon.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Our Constitution was a "compromise" with slavery . . . and oppression of women . . .
Edited on Tue May-04-10 12:32 PM by defendandprotect
which, btw, set us up for the Civil War which I often think we have not yet

recovered from --

Compromise is not a good thing!

And Kerry shouldn't be doing it --

ANY of it!!

It's also the same old fear-mongering about what Repugs will do to us if we

don't do what they want!!!

Rather, what's going on with Obama is that he has strong ties to Exelon --

And certainly Kerry is as pre-bribed and pre-owned as any of our Congressional members!!

And I'm amazed that anyone could be looking at what's happening in the Gulf and even

be discussing any more drilling!!

Leave alone looking at what's happening to our weather/Gobal Warming and suggesting any

further burning of fossil fuels!!

:eyes:
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Are you saying that the founding fathers should have rejected the Constitution?
Edited on Tue May-04-10 01:03 PM by karynnj
No compromise means - no bill
Even Kerry/Boxer contained plenty of compromises. No major bill ever passed our Congress without compromises. What Kerry was doing in his bill was setting the US into reducing our emissions. That has to be the first step.

Now someone could likely write a very very green bill arguing for closing or converting all coal plants, no drilling offshore (including ending the drilling that gives us 30% of our energy), that would eliminate nuclear. But, they would not get a single co-sponsor. This is not the time for a bill that is designed to be a future goal.

So, the question is what would you have a Senator, who cares passionately about this issue and who completely believes that we need to start now.

The fact is that there is no way that the United States will immediately stop burning fossil fuels - and no one is speaking of burning MORE fossil fuels. Kerry has not spoken of the details in the bill or about the oil spill.


As to Kerry being pre-bribed or pre-owned, even ignoring his integrity, what does anyone have to offer him? He and his wife, who is a strong environmentalist, are already extraordinarily wealthy - so it's not money. As to power, no one can give him more power than he currently has as a senior Senator. There is no more powerful position any outsider could give Kerry or help him attain. (President is the only such elected position - and unfortunately that did not happen in 2004 and now never will.)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. They should have fought against slavery . . . do you disagree?
The first step is to get gas-guzzlers off our highways --

Mass transportation --

and to end animal-eating/animal-exploitation industry!

The rest is game-playing --

and if you see it as a "first step" you have no real idea of the dangers

of Global Warming and how imminent they are.

When the public wakes up -- and that would be to the understanding that we

are ALL potentially to be "Katrina'd" by Global Warming the Congress will

have to react. Needless to say, it is already too late.

Does that mean we don't try -- No.

The idea that Kerry is above what is happening with the rest of the members of

Congress or the Establishment is inane.

And, anyone pushing for more off shore drilling at this point is completely insane.





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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Of course slavery was wrong, but should they have not ratified the Constitution?
Look at your suggestions:
1) How do you get the gas guzzlers off the road. Confiscate all of them? How do people then get to work or anything else that they absolutely need to do? Have you seen how hard it is to raise CAFE standards - Kerry and Snowe were able to get that in the 2007 bill - and since then the EPA, using the SC decision has raised them again. They impact NEW cars only. Did you see the uproar here - on DU - when there were rumors that there would be a 15 cents a gallon additional Federal gasoline tax?

2)Stop eating meat. Well I guess you can get Kucinich to sponsor this in the House, but do you seriously think that you would get 60 votes (or 5 for that matter) in the Senate? Who then will care for all the domesticated animals, that could not live in the wild, that no longer could be sold for food? By the way - I am not saying this would not be a good idea on a voluntary basis. My husband and I raised 3 kids as fish eating vegetarians (ie we did not eat meat or poultry)

3) I do understand global warming and the dangers as well as you do - which is why I think we need to go with the best we can get and fight to do more. Our effort would better by placed pushing Senators against doing something better - rather than Kerry, who is doing his best to cobble together 60 votes. It can not pass without 60 votes - reconciliation is not possible - there was a passed amendment - that many Democrats voted for that precludes that.

4) You say, does that mean we don't try? I would bet that is what Senator Kerry feels - his choices are to give up (and if he wants make eloquent comments on what should be done but others are blocking it) or work as hard as he can to get the most he can - knowing is not enough - and saying so, which he has?

5) Kerry is certainly not "pushing" for more drilling.

6) I do not buy that Congress or (THE ESTABLISHMENT) are what you think they are. I think the vast majority of people in Congress are trying to do what is best - but their vision of what is good differs. That is not to say none are corrupt - many are - but it is silly to say all of them are. You still didn't answer how they are "bribing" Senator Kerry. The fact is he was financially struggling when he alone was fighting BCCI. The power elites all wanted him to stop - if he were corrupt, his finances would not have been such that he was sleeping on friend's couches because he couldn't afford apartments in DC and Boston, alog with travel costs to see his daughters each week and pay for their education and child support.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Wonder why DU never goes after other senators, but constantly
goes after the Senator? Still weird six years later!:shrug:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I seriously don't understand what you mean . . .
have you no read post after post here condemning most of Congress?

And Obama --

Do you honestly think that when books are written about the "Buying of Congress"

that means just one Senator you don't want to see picked on?

Or when DU addresses the bribery of campaign contributions that we are not talking

about every Rep and every Sen ????

If I'm wrong in my assumption of what you are trying to say, please come back and

restate your post --

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Was the Civil War worth profits for elites from slavery and what both have
Edited on Tue May-04-10 08:46 PM by defendandprotect
done to this country?

The Civil War also produced great profits for elites/corporations --

which are a challenge to democracy . . . from the beginning . . . and now.

Gas-guzzlers . . . ? You stop crushing electric cars!!
You pay people to turn in the gas-guzzler - you finance the electric car.
Have you ever heard of mass transportation? How about pre-WWII ... before it was
bought up by automobile companies and destroyed?
Don't you realize that CAFE stdandards WERE HIGHER 20 years ago or more?
Wow -- how do you actually get out of bed every morning living in such fear of what
the RW is going to do!!

As for animal-exploitation, human-exploitation follows those same patterns -- and
violence against animals has always been linked to violence against humans.
Anyone who has read "The Jungle" and reacted to it knows the power of consciousness-raising.
When we have issues like E-Coli, people wake up pretty quickly. That same beflouled water
from animal-waste-exploitation is polluting our water, soil -- vegetation.
Actually animal-exploitation/slaughtering isn't something people really want to give a lot
of thought to -- that's why critics suggest it should be done behind glass walls.
If anything, conditions are even worse today than those at the time of "The Jungle."

Who would care for the domesticated animals not exploited? Who takes care of ExxonMobil and Enron
and Goldman Sachs, Blackwater? They could be sterilized and eventually their numbers would diminish.

"The best we can get?" . . . You mean the best the corporations will permit to be done?
We need to dissolve corporations -- not only take the ridiculous notion of "personhood" back
from them, but dissolve them. Break up the "too big to fail" and too big to exist corporations.
I'm sure you do understand Global Warming. And if this is the "best" Kerry can do - we should
work to replace him with someone more liberal/progressive.

Corporations are running the world . . . based on predatory capitalistic exploitation of everything
on the planet -- including the planet.


Not trying is not the same as "compromising" with those who are befouling the earth!

Nor is it the same as "compromising" with those who enslaved Africans here -- !!

We're in the same gene pool which gave us genocide vs the Native America -- 40 million of them
here when "discovered."


5) Kerry is certainly not "pushing" for more drilling.

Reread the quote from the article --


Anyone who is running campaigns with corporate money is corrupted by it --
How could it be otherwise?
Do you really think Dodd is uncorrupted because he happens to be a Dem?

Corporate money buys our elected officials -- how would that idea not have reached you?

Corporations pre-bribe and pre-own our elected officials.

BCCI is simply another right wing scandal which has been whitewashed and buried --
too often with help from Democrats. And, BCCI was a long time ago.
W Bush also has a heartwarming personal history if you listen to Laura!!








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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Ok - deep breath, resist impluse to post something I would have to apologize for
Edited on Wed May-05-10 10:01 AM by karynnj
The Civil War was decades after the Constitution was approved. As I said, I certainly do not agree with the provisions in the Constitution that allowed slavery and the repression of women. No one on this entire board would. But, it was not this board tasked to write or approve a Constitution in the 1700s. The Constitution as written, with provisions for amending, has been the defining document of our government. The original provisions reflect the time period and the culture which wrote it. The Bill of rights, which was really the first 10 amendments was a progressive document for its time - and possibly for our time.

Who do you think is "crushing electric cars"? Congress has passed grants to foster their development. As to mass transportation, Kerry sponsored the bill on high speed rail. Mass transportation in Northern NJ is great if you want to go NYC. I use it often. But, it doesn't connect to where most people work, if they work in state. It's not because anything was destroyed, it is because a network going there was never built. (The auto companies did not buy and destroy them - do have a link to this assertion?)

The biggest problem with mass transportation is that the advent of the highway system under Eisenhower led to the development of suburbs. I have two adult kids, living in two major cities, who do not have or want cars. In their cities, they are not only not needed, they would be a hassle. Living in suburban NJ, a car is needed because most of the mass transit simply goes to NYC.

As to CAFE standards, they are higher than they were 20 years ago. It is true if you compute the average mileage it went down in the Clinton years. This is because Many SUVs are counted as "trucks", so they are not under the CAFE standards. This does not change that Kerry and Snowe got higher limits passed in 2007 or that Kerry and McCain came close to raising them in 2001. Again, you need to consider who was on your side.

I read the Jungle when I was in high school, more than 40 years ago - and I would bet a huge percent of people did as well. I still stand by my estimate that you could not come close to passing a law blocking eating meat in either house of Congress. You can lobby, but it pure and simple won't happen. Post here when you find a Representative or Senator to sponsor it. I predict that probably 90 percent of the country would be strongly against it.

As to replacing Kerry with someone more progressive or liberal - he is among the 10 most progressive/liberal in the Senate (http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2010/02/national_journa_17.php ). You might also note that among that 10, after Dodd leaves, other than the aging Akaka, Kerry is the most senior and with Durbin, the only one with the seniority to be a powerful Senator. Even if MA Democrats suddenly changed their minds in 2014 and gave their nomination to some one to Kerry's left, that person - if they won, would be a very junior Senator, with none of the experience that Kerry has or his (limited) power to get things done. (Not to mention, I doubt this novice would emulate Kerry and refuse PAC money for 4 Senate runs.) Not to mention, what you are advocating can not be done within the system. Not only are you outside the spectrum of "Democrats", you are outside the spectrum of people thinking change can come from within the system.

Look up the meaning of "pushing", at most Kerry MIGHT be agreeing to include drilling, that Obama already approved, to get the parts of the bill he wants included, passed. Find me a quote of Kerry saying that Off shore drilling is a good idea. Again, only a bill that passes can really make change.

As to Dodd, although he is a solid liberal and has written legislation for things like the family leave, he is compromised by his Countrywide mortgage and his huge campaign contributions from banking companies - given while he was prominent on the banking committee - at minimum, look bad. Those contributions are a reason to get money out of politics - which a bill Kerry and Wellstone wrote aimed to do. Kerry's introduction speech spelled out the dangers of the incredible need to raise money. No one here has not had that idea reach them as you rudely suggest.

I said some politicians are corrupt - you suggest they ALL are. That puts a burden of proof on you and you have not met it. The fact is that both the media and the Republicans wanted Kerry to fail in 2004. Between them they attacked Kerry on many many things. Had there been any quid por quo or anything that was even spinnable as such - it would have been out there. Kerry is one of the cleaner politicians and he has advocated for cleaning the system.

Again, tell me what any CEO has to offer Senator Kerry as a bribe? We know that the Senator values his integrity and honor. What exactly could be offered to corrupt him?

BCCI was not a right wing scandal - if it were, it would not be so remarkable that Kerry doggedly investigated it. Both parties had high level powers that were complicit. Top Democratic money men were involved and they wanted it stopped. However, the problem with a corrupt Pakistani bank that was used to launder money for international drug dealers and non-state terrorists, having tentacles in the US banking system was something Kerry saw as necessary to stop. This took guts to do - his life was threatened and it could have ended his political career. Here's a fantastic cartoon done by a very good cartoonist.




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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. You don't understand the relationship between compromise with slave states and Civil War?
Edited on Wed May-05-10 01:34 PM by defendandprotect
The Constitution is schizophrenic --
it is a patriarchal document -- to empower white males -- endowing them with property.
As citizens, believe it or not, we are entitled to actually challenge and question
what has gone before -- including the Constitution . . . whether or not we were called
upon to "write or approve" it!

The Bill of Rights was "progressive" but it still did not end slavery nor the 100's of
years of war upon the native American which followed - including Church schools which
robbed them of their children, their culture, their traditions. The children were often
kidnapped. Nor did the Bill Of Rights grant full personhood to females!

The time period and culture were based on patriarchy and its violence.
No system of domination -- including patriarchy -- is kept in place
without violence and intimidation. Still going on today.

And, have you noticed that today corporations have full "personhood" while females still don't?

I'd also recommend that you rent "Who Killed The Electric Car?" which has often been discussed
here at DU. Probably available at your library. Therein you will find who crushed the electric
cars! I'm quite familiar with trains and I can tell you that we've done nothing but deteriorate
mass transportation and train travel. But, it must be our future.

And evidently neither do you understdand the comment about the destruction of mass transportation
post WWII???? Are you aware that it was bought by auto/oil interests and destroyed? If not,
do a search.

You don't also seem to understand that "where" mass transportation goes now . . . is now.
That we can expand the systems -- but we have to be dedicated to doing that.
Many people live in areas where they don't need cars -- we need more of that, not less.
In my own town we could have trolleys going to the RR and center of town each day!
That wouldn't be good for auto/oil industry in permitting commuters and families to have
one less car -- and permit teenagers and elderly to get around town more easily. And more.
Would make my town cleaner -- make more sense in putting those tables outside of restaurants
where you could breathe cleaner air. We also need to get trucks off of our town roads, again.
Our NJ legislature set trucks loose on every public and town road a few years back!!

Look . . . don't presume that what you think you know is all there is to know.
CAFE standards were higher 20-30 years ago -- we had cars that had 42mpg and more.
That was the 1960's ...

And, I'll just leave this paragraph standing for you to reread . . .

I read the Jungle when I was in high school, more than 40 years ago - and I would bet a huge percent of people did as well. I still stand by my estimate that you could not come close to passing a law blocking eating meat in either house of Congress. You can lobby, but it pure and simple won't happen. Post here when you find a Representative or Senator to sponsor it. I predict that probably 90 percent of the country would be strongly against it.

Do you think anyone said anything like that about SLAVERY . . . or WOMEN'S RIGHTS . . .

or SEGREGATION? Wow!

What makes a "powerful" elected official has to do with what they are saying and how the
public accepts them -- as you can see from Obama's record and polling so far.

Has nothing to do with how long they have been there -- EXCEPT in terms of Congressional
assignments and positions.

Quote to me what the article says about Kerry's support in this article for "drilling" --

It's amazing that you can truly be reflecting upon and absorbing the damage of this oil rig
disaster and still be advocating compromise on drilling!

Agree -- we need to get corporate money out of our elections -- we've known that for 200 years!

Any elected official who takes corporate money is compromised . . .

Every progressive organization makes that clear -- what more "proof" do you possibly need???


BCCI was not a right wing scandal - if it were, it would not be so remarkable that Kerry doggedly investigated it. Both parties had high level powers that were complicit. Top Democratic money men were involved and they wanted it stopped. However, the problem with a corrupt Pakistani bank that was used to launder money for international drug dealers and non-state terrorists, having tentacles in the US banking system was something Kerry saw as necessary to stop. This took guts to do - his life was threatened and it could have ended his political career. Here's a fantastic cartoon done by a very good cartoonist.

Do agree with you that Democrats were involved, but it was a CIA operation -- BCCI was a CIA bank -- therefore, right wing. There were many facets to the BCCI affair --
I have no problem with giving credit to Kerry for that investigation --
but that doesn't mean that he isn't compromising on "drilling" right now.

And have no doubt of the threats -- CIA has regularly targeted those who have tried to investigate
them - going back to Sen. Frank Church -- a Congressional investigation which still hasn't been released!

Thank you for the thoughtful and civil reply -- :)
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. I respect your passion, but I think that in all your positions,
you accept only the most damning reasons. I accept that genuine change in this country has almost always started outside the government and built up to a point where the government responds to it.

Do you seriously think that a law that would make everyone vegans (am I wrong in assuming that taking eggs and milk is exploiting animals) is likely when even vegan groups estimate that fewer than 2% in the US.

"Look . . . don't presume that what you think you know is all there is to know.
CAFE standards were higher 20-30 years ago -- we had cars that had 42mpg and more.
That was the 1960's .."

This shows a lack of understanding of what CAFE standards are. There were none in the 1960s. There are hybrid cars now, with aftermarket batteries, that get 150 mpg, but the CAFE standards are nowhere near that. What the 1960 number and this number reflect is that technology could support a higher CAFE standard.

"What makes a "powerful" elected official has to do with what they are saying and how the
public accepts them -- as you can see from Obama's record and polling so far.

Has nothing to do with how long they have been there -- EXCEPT in terms of Congressional
assignments and positions."

President Obama is not a member of the House or Senate, he is obviously the President. His power before he became President grew as the likelihood that he would be President did. But, here you are speaking of an exception, not the rule. While the competence and ability of a Senator matters greatly, all things being equal, someone with seniority has more power. The people of MA firmly rejected replacing Kerry in their primary in 2008. You might also look at the fact that on this issue DU favorite Franken is one of the Senators demanding more consideration for coal.

As to taking "corporate" money, that is Joe Trippi tripe in this case. Corporations could not give money to candidates. Their PACs can - and Senator Kerry ran 4 Senate campaigns without PAC money. He was the first to do so. He did get individual donations from people employed by corporations - as did all candidates. In 2004, after a Trippi inspired charge about lobbyists, Kerry did something unprecedented - and which NO 2008 candidate was willing to do. He released a list with names, dates, and companies of every lobbyist he met with since 1989 - fifteen years before - and said he was willing to defend every single one.

As to compromising on a climate bill, you can not pass one without significant compromising. You need 60 votes. Would you prefer that he, his staff, environmentalists, Teresa Heinz Kerry and her staff from the foundation (led by John Heinz's former chief of staff) all go to Nantucket during a long recess and write a perfect environmental bill? He might then be able to get a small number of co-sponsors, but it likely would fail to even get out of Boxer's environmental committee. He could then speak as the pure environmentalist, but would it move this country one step closer to dealing with the problem? Not really.

As I said - why not lobby the Senators who are requiring these compromises to get their votes. Their positions are the problems. That requires going after DU favorites such as Webb, who demanded oil drilling, and Franken and Feingold, who demanded consideration for coal, and Sherrod Brown, who demanded giving dirty manufacturing companies a break. Kerry is one of the people actually on your side - attempting to get as much change in the right direction as possible.

As to drilling - the thing that might change the dynamic is if there is a major shift in the willingness of Americans to accept drilling offshore. Last month and at least for the last 2 years, about 70% of the country favored it. If that has greatly decreased, it may swing Senators like Webb and Warner. Kerry was always against it. If he could get the 60 votes without it - I would imagine he would be overjoyed to do so. If you read his and Teresa's book, he is a strong live long environmentalist. That's why he has committed the energy in a focused effort to get a bill pricing carbon. (where he is not helped by the economy)



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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-10 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Should people in rural areas
Be forced to move into cities?

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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Turn the running of our government over to the people, not politicos.
I think we have to take the aristocracy out of our decision
making processes.  They do not make good decisions.
They have some game rules that do not allow anything sensible
to happen and to keep in place industries that are killing us.

The power of the voter is crucial.  Elect middle class people
to office.  People who care and understand, like engineers,
doctors,
educators, small and middle class business owners.  These
elitists are in a cult of their own hurling toward absence.  I
wonder if they 
have a satelite waiting for them once they blow this earth to
smithereens.... ??? Or what kind of reasoning they have for
their own survival, or are they all suicidal?  
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. How would you define middle class?
Then how do you explain disenfranchising someone like Kennedy born to wealth. Kerry actually would have qualified financially as upper middle class until he married Teresa Heinz Kerry. He could easily have become wealthy had he not opted to go into public service. Should he have lost his job for marrying the woman he loves? He was one of the poorer Senators. Professionally, he was a lawyer - an excellent prosecutor for much of that time - and he was the owner of a small business. He and a friend finding nowhere a Quincy Market, next to Faneuil Hall, started a small cookie business using their Mother's recipes and naming it using their mothers' maiden names. Not to mention, there is no one in the Senate working harder on this issue - one he has worked on for 20 years.

If you look at the backgrounds of most Senators or Congressmen, many were middle class or below growing up. Also how would you classify Senator Lautenberg?

Frank Lautenberg spoke at a Democratic event about growing up in Patterson. His father was one of the people who worked in Patterson's silk factories - dying at a young age (45?) because of the poor air quality. His father pushed him to get an education and after serving in military. He went on to be one of the founders of ADP and a multi-millionaire. Should he be rejected because he was too successful?
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. It it unfortunate that all of this has to be refuted six/seven years later
on a "progressive/liberal/Democratic" message board.

Good post and good question. You will probably get some crickets in the end.

Go figure. :hide:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. It's one system of exploitation and its 1000% suicidal . . . .
Patriarchy/Organized patriarchal religion which is its underpinning/Capitalism which
was invented by the Vatican when Feudalism proved insufficient to run their Papal States.

They are one system of exploitation -- "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature"
which are the licenses to the elite to exploit --

not only nature, natural resources and animal-life -- but even other human beings
according to various myths of "inferiority."

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