Outrage over deer shot by Oakland officer

[alp227]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

(05-04) 19:21 PDT OAKLAND -- Oakland Police Chief Anthony Batts said Tuesday that he was "unhappy" that an officer shot and killed a young deer in an East Oakland backyard over the weekend and promised an internal investigation into what led to the decision to open fire.

The deer, estimated to be about a year old, was shot in a backyard of a home on the 1700 block of 90th Avenue at about 11 a.m. Saturday. The shooting was captured on video by Anthony Weems, 28, who was among many residents who were outraged Tuesday that police had killed the animal.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/04/BAGN1D9FV0.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea

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Wow...police will just shoot anything that scares them even the tiniest bit. Given that this happened near the zoo, this makes all the other brutality controversies seem humane.

[madrchsod]

1. tough call...

deer can cause a lot of damage and worse can injure themselves so they would have to be put done.when frightened they can be really dangerous to humans.

[AmericaIsGreat]

3. LOL

Are you fucking kidding? God I hope you're fucking kidding

[StercusAccidit]

8. Are you kidding?

Deers get scared pretty easily around humans sometimes. A deer got stuck in a gated tennis court my highschool. It tore up a net, and took 5 grown men to stop it from doing more damage. They escorted it out of the door (was so freaked out, it would just keep running into the gating instead of running out of the door), and it promptly ran out into the street and got hit by a car.

[xsquid]

24. I grew up in the boonies and one time a yearling got in a neighbors

house (open door). They like to never got it out, it jumped up on the kitchen table scarring it up and it managed to knock over just about everything in the house. Trying to climb the walls, and trying to attack anyone that got close. It's hard to imagine but that deer destroyed that house not to mention ripping itself to shreads . Deer cornered in a yard, etc. are very agressive and will absolutely attack, they loose all resemblance of the meek creatures they appear to be.

I would not be so quick to condemn the officer without the whole story, then again I am not programmed to hate cops. Here is a usa today story:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-01-deer-attacks_x.htm

I know this pops the bubble of those that claim people are only killed bt deer in car accidents or turning in hunters, but these people are ignorant of how wild animals act when they get in a human environment.

[Enthusiast]

17. In the U.S deer

kill more human beings than all the rest of the domestic and wild animals combined. Mostly through traffic accidents but every year people are also killed by the antlers and hoofs of deer. Not that this justifies killing deer for no reason.

[captain jack]

19. Deer do not kill human beings. Human beings in moving vehicles kill deer and sometimes die doing so.

And that's a risk you take when you drive. Certainly the deer can't be faulted whatsoever. And many of those humans killed by antlers and hoofs of deer are killed while hunting for sport (which is killing for no reason) and encroaching on habitat (because humans think the wilds are their petting zoo). Should I even mention doors of homes left open by humans that have chosen to live in the latest destroyed deer habitat. Human stupidity is dangerous and driving kills. Deer are deer.

[Enthusiast]

37. "Deer are deer"

And they are tasty!

[601Liberal]

40. Dear sausage rocks!

I love to eat some whenever I can get my hands on them.

[Enthusiast]

41. And they are not pumped full

of steroids and antibiotics.

[Doremus]

48. + 1000

[Kali]

18. ever been around a yearling buck that some moran raised?

or thought they were "rescuing"? Good luck with that.

[Llewlladdwr]

28. Have you actually encountered a deer in the wild? NT

[msanthrope]

32. Welcome to DU. No, the poster is not kidding. n/t

[Tailormyst]

39. Wild deer can be very dangerous.

[Prometheus Bound]

5. All they ever do is look for vegetation to eat.

My brother has more than five deer a day come in his urban back yard to munch on his grass and leaves. The only damage they do is to his veggie garden, so he keeps making the fence higher. He's lived there for over 20 years and there's never been an incident in the neighbourhood. If the police tried to shoot any of their deer people would think they were insane.

[bitchkitty]

6. Yes, those dangerous Bambis must all be put down!

They should put steel traps in all the yards. Can't have a horde of ravening deer about, oh no!

I don't think I need the sarcasm icon on this one, do I? And do us all a favor and DO NOT become a police officer. If you are one, quit.

[customerserviceguy]

51. Well, you've nailed it

Most people here have pretty much only the experience of seeing the movie, "Bambi" when it comes to their real-life knowledge about deer.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. Concur...tough call.

We do not have nearly as many in CA as say the east coast, and many here are not aware of just how dangerous they can be

[nyc 4 Biden]

21. yes, killing the deer so it wouldn't injure itself makes sense.

:wow:

[hvn_nbr_2]

29. A perfectly logical extension of "destroying the village in order to save it"

Perfectly logical, that is, for everyone who had this reaction to Logic 101: :crazy: :boring:

[yellowcanine]

52. Not really. A deer in that situation often injures itself. It it then escapes it is either going

to die a slow painful death or possibly get dragged down by a pack of feral dogs and die a slow painful death. An injured deer is likely to die soon one way or the other. Deer will die of shock in such a situation as well - even when they are only slightly injured. I saw it happen with a deer my brother and I rescued from a pack of wild dogs which had the deer cornered on the ice. It didn't appear to have serious injuries but it only lived about 12 hours and its heart just stopped. We had called the game warden and he told us that is what would likely happen, as he had seen it happen many times.

The most humane thing to do unless you are equipped to immobilize the deer quickly with a dart so it can be safely moved is to dispatch it quickly with a round from a gun. Deer are wild animals. They should not be thought of as pets - or humans. Also, although it is rare, deer can get infected with rabies, so any deer that finds itself in close proximity to humans - a situation they normally avoid - should be handled carefully.

[Truth2Tell]

54. dragged down by a pack of feral dogs

Oh my. I guess that happens all the time. Much better to have shot it on the spot than to have risked that fate.

[yellowcanine]

57. More often than you know. Feral dogs are a big problem, particularly in some suburban and rural

areas. The county I work in (suburban/rural) had a horse attacked about a year ago. They didn't kill it, just wounded it, but it had to be put down also. And from what I heard from the game warden, it happens a lot with deer.

[Yeahyeah]

2. Incidentally,how many crazy-ass ptsd veterans of Bushwars cops are there now?

[flvegan]

4. Young deer are cute, and bringing the killing of animals to the average backyard?

Not a good idea. If dead animals aren't presented in a box or at your grocery store conveniently packaged under plastic, it gets a bit inconvenient.

Hypocrisy is a funny thing now and than. Sad for those that pay the price to expose it.

[CreekDog]

43. there are probably hundreds of other deer that will do the same thing

does the officer think that shooting one deer is fixing anything for more than 2 minutes?

[petronius]

7. What a jerk. A half dozen shots in a neighborhood, maybe with a few misses,

and he fails to cleanly kill an animal that didn't need to be killed in the first place?

I don't think it's policies that need to be reexamined, it's this officer's fitness for his job...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Like most urbanites he most likely had no idea where to aim

Also taking bets the department had no one on call for this kind of situation.

[quickesst]

9. Given the replies thus far....

...save one logical one, ...to this thread remind me of the "teabagger, white supremicist, repug, racist motherfucker" who was automatically pegged as the "bomber", which we now know a lot of people are, to put it politely, backing off that assertion. We know the deer was in a back yard. We know the deer was shot by an officer. What we don't know are the circumstances that led to the shooting.

"promised an internal investigation into what led to the decision to open fire."

Now, if the chief of police, like federal investigators, need an investigation to clarify what happened, what makes anyone here think that they know what actually happened, the circumstances surrounding the incident, and can come to a conclusion based upon a sketchy news report without any details? Apparently a bunch.

Here is one scenario to keep in mind. A deer might be taken out with one shot from an experienced hunter armed with a rifle. He might not be taken down with a handgun which, even with a clean shot, might not go down easily. Now suppose, and this is just speculation because contrary to others here who seem to have some special insight, I have no detailed facts to support my premise, a small child, perhaps even a baby in a swing were present, and the officer saw a clear and present danger to that child unless he took action immediately. Anyone who believes a deer could not do significant damage to a human being, child or adult is living in a cartoon Bambi world. Would he still be demonized as he prematurely is in this thread. No, he would be a hero. The point is, why would anyone with any sense of logic or common sense, judge without the full benefit of the facts? It's become a fucking sport here at DU. What is it? The need to be the one others come back and say "Wow, you nailed it." Perhaps the ego needs a little massage? And if you're wrong, how many but a few come back and apologize for getting it wrong. I'd say about .001%. Go figure.
The officer might just be a boner that thought shooting the deer would be fun, but I, like everyone else here won't know that until all the facts are presented. You are of the left. That makes you all heroes, and I see no need for a race to be the best at it. Thanks.
quickesst

[alphafemale]

12. Thanks.

I'll reserve judgement for now.

But the vehement opinion above, that a deer could not possibly be dangerous, made me laugh.

Some people have obviously never seen a trapped deer.

[Prometheus Bound]

13. According to the article it was neither trapped nor dangerous.

And even the police chief was unhappy about what the officer did.

So the facts are there. Maybe they're just not the ones you want.

[Kali]

20. it said one person's opinion, a person with no stated expertise

hell, it said the animal control officers that were present had no expertise. then you get a quote like this:

"I feel they shouldn't have killed Bambi," Campbell said. "The Oakland Zoo was right up the street. They could have called the Oakland Zoo and said, 'Look, you know, we have this little baby deer, can you come down and take it back to the wild?' "

and the credibility level of the whole thing just sinks to fairy tale position.

[jberryhill]

31. Actually, there is one expert quoted

----
Susan Heckly, wildlife rehabilitation director at the Lindsay Wildlife Museum in Walnut Creek, said Tuesday that she saw the video but didn't know the circumstances that led to the decision to shoot the deer.

Nevertheless, "from my vantage point, I would say that is not Plan A - that was probably a bad decision," Heckly said. "I don't know the police force's level of knowledge about wildlife or animals and how they train their officers."
----

So, the only expert in the article says she doesn't know all of the facts, that on limited information it appears to be "probably" a bad decision, but that she also doesn't know whether the police force has any relevant training for these rare events.

Pretty much what one would expect from an expert.

[izquierdista]

44. Expert?

What kind of an expert can she be if she needs more facts, compared to our DU experts?

[jberryhill]

45. True.. "wildlife rehabilitation director" is probably a patronage job /nt

[Javaman]

25. why would anyone with any sense of logic or common sense,judge without the full benefit of the fact"

Because, WE. ARE. DU!

LOL

part of the fun of DU is the knee jerk reactions that people write.

Facts? pfft! Evidence? pfft! actual testimony? pfft!

supposition? Yay!!! foggy descriptions? Yay!! testimony from a neighbor that didn't see it but heard it over the sound of the radio playing in here kitchen? Yay!!!

Fletch: get me some ball bearings and some 30 weight oil!

mechanic: ball bearings?

Fletch: come on, everyones using ball bearings these days!

[Steerpike]

14. Deer can be agressive...

Generally they just want to run away...but it does happen...usually with bucks...

here check these out...kinda funny really...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeA5ow7cS1c


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15ut0KUHO9E&feature=related

[elocs]

15. This happened in my city a year ago with a male black bear

that wandered into a city park at the edge of town. This park borders on a marsh and is also near the bluff. This park is also the home of the city zoo which had 2 female bears in heat.

It was a Saturday morning and there were people in the park. The bear was scared to death and in the circumstances did what you might guess--he climbed a tree.

The police just didn't know what to do. It didn't occur to them to evacuate the park since the bear was up the tree and did not appear to want to come down. So ultimately they decided to just shoot it since the closest tranquilizer rifle was in an city some 90 miles away.

As it turns out there was a closer tranquilizer rifle just 3 miles away at the county Humane Society. They received the rifle several years earlier from, yes, the police.

The sad thing is now, after a year of contemplation, the police chief says he would not do anything differently and would chose to shoot the bear again. The bad news is that the zoo bears will go into heat again soon so another male bear may well be attracted to the park.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mulsh]

22. Oakland normally has one PD officer assigned to "Animal Control"

I'm not saying the cops made the right call on this one but they are grossly understaffed and the management of OPD suck in ways you can't imagine if you haven't had any interaction with them.

The animal was no where near any open fields or major parks. Birch & 90th is in the part of East Oakland that the city fathers and mothers have abandoned. there are streets in that area the cops refuse to drive down. The guys on the beat don't appear to have any support from the brass. its...criminal.

Oh and forget about any significant Animal Control responce. Their hands are tied if the animal goes any where other than the property it's reported on.

Oakland government- a fine example of incompetence, nepotism, and cronyism.

[Jennicut]

23. Sheesh. They should come to Connecticut. We have a lot of deer. We have the highest

amount of Lyme disease in the country. Actually, my Grandmother lives in Old Lyme (where it was first discovered) AND had Lyme disease, we found out about it last year after she got really, really weak and had to go to her doctor. She had the rash and was tested and sure enough, it was Lyme disease.
Deer really are not a nuisance here other then being carriers for deer ticks that carry the Lyme Disease. Some people here want to cut down on the deer population but I am not okay with that. You just have to be vigilant here after being in tall grass or the woods to always check yourself (and your pets) for ticks.
I have also almost hit a few deer over the years. At least they were not moose. You hit one of those things...and I don't want to think about it. We go to visit my father in law in NH every summer and the moose are up there.

[Javaman]

26. Heck, here in Austin, people refer to them as tall rats. nt

[Xithras]

30. We have plenty of deer in northern California

They just tend to avoid the urban areas, for obvious reasons. Seeing a deer walking through central Oakland is about as common as seeing one wandering through Brooklyn. It may happen, but it's a rare event.

Get outside of the urban areas, and deer in California are as numerous, widespread, and stupid as the deer anywhere else in the country...and I have a dent on one of my fenders to attest to that (grr).

[avaistheone1]

34. You can see deer in the Oakland hillsides though...

[daggahead]

27. In all fairness ...

the officer thought the deer was reaching for a gun.

:sarcasm:

[msanthrope]

33. I'm surprised the deer's weapon wasn't recovered....n/t

[flvegan]

35. LOL! People on DU justifying this.

Oh, this site never disappoints.

[chatnoir]

55. How anyone can attempt to justify this is beyond me

"The deer was scared. It wasn't doing anything. The whole time, it was in the corner, shaking."

Heartless, just heartless.

[Robb]

36. LOL at city folk.

I can't decide whether it's funnier the Oakland officer felt like he had to empty his gun to kill a deer, or that this is causing any hysteria.

It's a deer. They die a lot, for lots of reasons, and they're generally doing fine. Urban-wildlife interface expansion, fewer predators and all that.

I can't get outraged. I'm concerned more about that much shooting in someone's backyard than the freaking deer.

[boppers]

56. Same reaction here.

I was raised in Pima County, AZ, alongside rattlesnake, scorpion, mountain lion, javelina, coyote, etc.

Outside of cities, confrontations with possibly lethal species is just an occasional part of life, like getting a haircut.

The saddest part of the video I saw was the absurd mis-use of force... a lasso or dart could have done the trick, but I'd hazard a guess that the police officer would have been no more competent with a lasso or dart than a pistol.

[davepc]

38. What the hell did he shoot it with, his sidearm?!

Any round that small is more then likely banned for use in deer hunting because it's too small to guarantee a clean kill.

[CreekDog]

42. He did the right thing

If he didn't kill the deer, it would surely kill him.

[MODem75]

46. Here is the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEEYnriDfNQ&feature=player_embedded#!

Surprised by the responses on here. Why not just tranquilize the deer and transport it to another location? Those bullets that missed it had to go somewhere. Glad no kids were on the other side of that fence.

[Prometheus Bound]

50. Thanks for that. Confirms what a loser the cop is.

I bet Oakland cops cry when they see a rabbit.

[Pavulon]

53. Stupid. Note the holes in the fence.

I am an OK shot and could have placed a shot in its head or chest without much effort. Or if it must be done use a shotgun, more effective and actually safer than firing a pistol.

Pretty stupid.

[hedgehog]

47. A lot of people assume that any wild animal seen in the daylight must be rabid.

That's the only reason i can think of for getting so excited over a baby deer.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

49. Shoulda used the Taser

that's what they're there for.

:hi: