Lab: Fla. Keys tar balls not from Gulf oil spill

[tomm2thumbs]

Source: WaPo

The Coast Guard says tar balls that floated ashore in the Florida Keys aren't linked to the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.

<snip>

Twenty were found Monday and several others Tuesday.

Government scientists who surveyed the Gulf on Tuesday said tendrils of light oil were near or already in a powerful current that could take it to Florida. The loop current circulates in the Gulf and takes water south to the Florida Keys and the Gulf Stream. But most oil remains dozens of miles away from the current.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/19/AR2010051901429.html

---

Who even believes what the Coast Guard says now that they are under authority and control of BP as noted in recent CBS encounter?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8364906

*flashback* 'Air quality around 9/11 site safe' - yes, believe what you hear

[rusty charly]

1. Right.

Did Christie Todd Whitman test the tar balls?

[ejpoeta]

2. yeah what a coincidence that just as a big oil gusher is spewing in the gulf coast

some totally unrelated globs of tar are ending up on a beach in the fla keys.... tar globs that look just like the tar globs on the beaches in the gulf coast. but totally unrelated!!

[sharp_stick]

3. I suppose it could be

some scumbag tanker or container ship dumping it's bilge as soon as it gets out of port. Some ships do this to save dump fees, fortunately they are now often caught.

[jtrockville]

6. Has that ever happened before?

I googled "tarballs" to see if there had ever been reports of tarballs randomly showing up on a coast before, but I couldn't see anything that wasn't related to this occurance.

[sharp_stick]

12. My cousin used to see it

around his place near Los Angeles and San Diego before the shipping companies were routinely fined for it.

It used to happen a lot more, ships either didn't have the proper filters installed or tried to bypass them to save money.

It still happens occasionally.

http://www.greenprophet.com/2010/05/13/21170/egypt-oil-spill-russia/

[onenote]

14. I googled tar balls and immediately found these articles from 2000 and 2003

http://www.incidentnews.gov/entry/517107
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/secretary/news/2003/january/0108.htm

What is happening in the Gulf is an unmitigated disaster and it is almost certain that the environmental impact of the oil gushing out the drill site will be felt along the Florida and eastern coasts. But we don't do ourselves any good making unsubstantiated assumptions that any tarballs appearing in those areas right now have to be from the BP well site. Sadly, tarballs occur along the coast more often than people realize.

[jtrockville]

36. Interesting stuff. But both articles indicate tarballs are the result of an oil spill.

From the first link:

Tar balls, the little dark colored pieces of oil that stick to our feet when we go to the beach, are actually remnants of oil spills.

The 2nd link is about an actual oil spill.

I'm not sure I buy the notion that these tarballs aren't from BP's Deepwater Horizon. At least not until their source (an unknown oil spill?) is identified.

[shanti]

17. well

i grew up in OC, and remember many times in the 60's going to the beach and coming home with tar on my feet. don't remember why it happened tho...

[jberryhill]

24. Then you didn't try very hard

Tar balls have been in the ocean since we have been using petroleum.

Here's a paper from 2005:

http://www.nrt.org/Production/NRT/RRTHome.nsf/resources/RRTIV-Pamphlets/$File/23_RRT4_Tar_Ball_Pamphlet.pdf

[jtrockville]

35. Bingo, you caught me. Wasn't it obvious?

Everything returned on the first few pages by a search on tarballs was from this incident. That's why I posted the question here.

[jberryhill]

39. Hint: Google search has a date range function

When you want to find out something that is relevant to a current event, without recent news swamping the results, re-set the date range from 0 to some time before the event.

[jtrockville]

40. OOOOohhhhh I had no idea. TY! Also... your link is broken.

That date range tip will come in VERY handy. Thanks very much!
Also, I am interested to see what your search turned up. Do you have a link that works?

[jberryhill]

41. No prob

Other pre-2010 info on tarballs:

http://www.deepwaterinvestigation.com/posted/2931/488_tarballs.535711.pdf

http://www.google.com/search?q=tar+balls+ocean&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=2HW&rlz=1R1WZPB_en___US355&sa=X&ei=vlD0S77ZDcHflgeS_NnvDA&ved=0CAkQpwU&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A2%2F1%2F2010

http://www.nrt.org/Production/NRT/RRTHome.nsf/resources/RRTIV-Pamphlets/$File/23_RRT4_Tar_Ball_Pamphlet.pdf

http://www.gdrc.org/oceans/marine-pollution.html

Tar balls from coagulated oil litter beaches and coastal habitat.

http://www.alguita.com/newsletter_2000.html

"Distribution of tar balls on the surface of the ocean had been a major topic of concern for the Coast Guard in the 1970's. The final years of the "Ocean Station" program were used to conduct systematic tows to document the increase in tar ball concentrations that was being seen worldwide. Dramatic oil disasters in the 1960's and the 1970's, culminating with the Exxon Valdez oil spill, (possibly more than any scientific evidence about chronic oil sources) encouraged Congress and the international maritime community to begin to take action to address the problem of petrochemicals accumulating in the ocean. Chronic causes of oil contamination, including unregulated tank washing and other intentional discharges were eventually discontinued."

---

The bottom line is that with all of the oil and shipping operations in the Gulf, one can always find tar balls. The oceans worldwide are thick with them.

OF COURSE, there is going to be a crapload of stuff coming onshore from this gusher. And a LOT more than a few tar balls.

[jtrockville]

44. I think what's significant about these... is that they indicate LIES.

Everything I've read (including your links) attributes tarballs to oil spills. If these tarballs are indeed from the BP Deepwater Horizon Gusher, it means that oil entered the Gulf Loop ~10 days ago, which contradicts reports.

What oil spill might these have come from? Is there a spill, OTHER than the BP Deepwater Horizon Gusher, that hasn't been reported lately? If BP Deepwater Horizon oil has already entered the Gulf Loop, it won't be that much longer until it enters the Gulf Stream.

Denial means appropriate measures won't be taken to address this.

[jberryhill]

46. What other spills?

We've been spilling oil into the gulf and every other body of water for over a century now.

You don't seem to get that tarballs form from these spills and float around the oceans until they wash up somewhere. There are ALWAYS tarballs washing up on every beach on the planet. The oceans are full of them. Asking "what spill did this tarball come from?" is an exercise in futility, since oil is being spilled in quantities great and small into water all of the time.

It's like walking down a city street, seeing a cigarette butt on the pavement and shouting "who dropped this cigarette butt here?". The answer is "someone who smoked a cigarette". That's why you can do a google search and find all sorts of references to information about tarballs in the ocean, studies of their distribution in various parts of the oceans, and so on.

There is going to be a whole lot worse washing up in a few days, but I'm having a hard time understanding the excitement over whether any particular tarball - out of a gazillion you can find any day on any beach - did or did not come from this particular spill. It's like wondering who is responsible for each turd at the sewage plant. Yes, all turds there have the same general cause.

It's as if people think the Gulf was some pristine tarball free body of water until this happened. Like every body of water on the planet, it has a lot of tarballs in it.

Hey, you live in Rockville... Take a day trip over to Assateague Island and pick up some tarballs:
http://www.incidentnews.gov/incident/7207

[jtrockville]

47. Everything I've read (including your links) suggests....

Tarballs are caused by spills, and can be directly tied to a particular spill. I think it's safe to attribute these to the gigantic BP Deepwater Gusher, unless another (specific) spill is uncovered.

[jberryhill]

48. Try googling this

tarballs and bilge dumping

If you really did read even the links I posted, you would know that it is estimated that 40% of tarballs are estimated to be the result of bilge dumping. (and use the date function, since even the recent articles about this incident refer to bilge dumping).

Unreported spills of a couple of gallons of petroleum will result in tarballs. If you think that every time a couple of gallons of oil is spilled or flows out of sewers into the ocean, that someone knows about it, then I'd love to live in a world as careful and responsible as yours.

But, really, spend a day at Assateague this summer carefully looking at what is washed up at low tide. You'll find tarballs to your heart's content.

[liberal N proud]

4. They think we just fell off the turnip truck

[Botany]

7. I was born @ night but not last night.

[bulloney]

5. It's corporate CYA time again.

This reminds me of an experience from about 15 years ago, when a bunch of poultry megafarms located in a small area about an hour north of Columbus, Ohio. The people living within a few miles of these facilities were suddenly getting swarmed with flies. They're replacing fly strips in their homes daily.

The poultry company found an entomologist from Purdue who, with the help of the media, stated that the types of flies these people were putting up with were not the kind you'd find in poultry manure. Before the megafarms came in, this area never had any experience with flies at this level. Now, all of a sudden, right after these poultry facilities, with millions of birds at each location, begin operation, the area gets overwhelmed with flies. It can be late winter and early spring with cold temperatures and the area was swarming with flies. And this bug "expert" expected everyone to just accept his "findings" and that the sudden explosion of flies in the area was all a coincidence.

It goes to show that if you have money, you can always find some "expert" to say anything you want.

[daleo]

43. I visited a friend who was working on a poultry farm in the 80s

Talk about flies. I never knew there were that many flies in the world.

[Bragi]

8. I tend to believe them

It isn't that I have any confidence in the honestly of the Coast Guard on this, but if they outright lied about what their tests showed then the evidence of their lie would eventually show up.

I also assume that if the test had showed that the tarballs were in fact from the BP blowout, then BP would have made sure the Coast Guard made no announcement of this until BP was good and ready to release this information, somewhere in the mists of time.

What I see here is the White House and the administration being pretty much in the industry's pocket on this blowout. I expect the admin will make occasional noises about getting tough on BP, but their actions will show that they remain in favor of letting industry continue its inherently risky and untested deepwater oil extraction programs.

These programs will, in my view, inevitably lead to blowouts of this sort gradually becoming commonplace. The admin of the day will be sad and regretful as the oceans and shorelines are fouled, but they will continue to remind us about the importance of energy "security" (/cue laugh track) until these blowouts barely merit any mention in the news.

Everyone will then live happily ever after for maybe another, what, 20-30 years, before fossil-fuel induced climate-change will result in severe weather, droughts, floods, famines, mass migrations, wars, etc. and profoundly change our perception of what "happily ever after" actually means.

[Robbien]

20. Their lie wouldn't show up for a while

Meanwhile this PR news story is getting some people to say "I tend to believe them" thus giving them the breathing room to wait and let the truth come out later when people aren't paying as much attention.

Just the same situation as their 5,000 barrel oil gusher lie. They will never say anything about what the real amount is until months/years later.

[dixiegrrrrl]

27. Exceedingly well put, and the only exception I take is:

"Everyone will then live happily ever after for maybe another, what, 20-30 years,"

I truly believe the time-line is much much shorter.

[Bragi]

28. And I'll not dispute your estimate

It's now clear that the climate "feedback loops" are already at work and changing things much faster than even the worst predictions of a decade or so ago.

And we have obviously abandoned even any pretense that we will take action to avoid the worst of it, so I agree, it is quite possible that we'll be heading towards the end-game here much earlier than we expect.

However, I'm now 60, and I like to think it will be at least 20-30 years until the worst of it happens because, well, you see, I'll not likely be around for much of the Mad Max era that beckons.

Forgive me if I cling to this comforting myth for a bit longer.

[dixiegrrrrl]

29. I am an "early boomer" and worry deeply about my sons.

Who are....gasp....middle aged!!???
Thank fully no grandchildren in the picture, both sons decided on their own years ago to
not breed. Interesting, that.


And yes, the pattern of Gaia feedback loops is very very evident.

Unfortunately, politicians seem to have no feedback loops.

[msongs]

9. since they're not from the spill they're ok right? nt

[Igel]

31. Can't say.

That's because a lot of tarballs don't really interact much with the environment. They roll along, covered with grit, and eventually get buried. That's that.

Moreover, they come from a variety of sources: ships that leak or discharge oil (not just tankers, mind you); oil rigs and routine drilling and production; and oil seeps.

Oil seeps are natural. They've been at it for millions of years. In fact, the Native Americans that lived not far from Houston used tarballs in making their cooking vessels.

So we can't say that these tarballs aren't natural. We can't say that they're from an artificial source.

The problem is that since tarballs in general can be natural, the environment has a carrying capacity built in. That means the real question is, "How much oil seepage can that area of the Gulf currently accommodate?" Anything up to that limit isn't all that bad; anything above that limit could be really nasty. I don't know the answer, and haven't heard anybody say they know the answer.

There's a lot of fear and terror and panic, dire predictions of one sort or another. A lot of groups find it profitable, either financially ("donate money to us to help clean up") or politically ("if you love the environment we need you to support our effort to have laws and regulations enacted--okay, we've been after them for 40 years, but we must act *now*"). I'm surprised I haven't seen oil-soaked baby seals in the media. Personally, if it's an ecological disaster in fact no amount of ranting now will save so much as a barnacle; if it's not a disaster, we might learn something, if only what the Gulf's carrying capacity is.

[jberryhill]

42. No, but it's surprising how many here don't realize the extent of pollution before this "spill"

I don't like the term "spill" since this is not really a spill - it is an underwater volcano of petroleum.

However, tarball pollution is present in every ocean of the planet.

I can walk down to the New Jersey beaches and pick up tarballs. You can do it on any beach, anywhere, right now.

Whether any particular Florida tarball came from this gusher is pretty irrelevant to what's going to be happening when this oil starts coming ashore.

[Nihil]

49. Thanks for your valiant effort ...

... in trying to use mere facts to inform people who are convinced
that their self-imposed ignorance of the world is somehow more valid.

You have more patience that I do.

:toast:

[tomm2thumbs]

10. they probably were from the rig itself, which sank, and from which they are not comparing samples

next they'll say Brit Hume is right - there is no spill to speak of

[florida08]

11. these are not the droids you're looking for

go about your business :popcorn:

[CLANG]

13. So what? Just wait a few more days...

[joanmj]

15. yes

it's just a matter of time! how 'bout an independent review?

[happygoluckytoyou]

16. IN A RELATED STORY... gators to change name to TARHEELS

[Festivito]

18. I'd think BP either rigged the test or put other tar balls out there.

They are that sneaky.

[jberryhill]

26. There are tar balls everywhere

BP doesn't need to put them anywhere.

http://www.sdnn.com/sandiego/2009-07-05/environment/tarballs-a-common-sight-on-la-jolla-shores

[superconnected]

34. However they still come from off shore or on shore oil rigs I see.

oil pollution is oil pollution. This doesn't prove the tarballs in questions came from the gulf coast or not.

[jberryhill]

38. Yes, from rigs and spills of all kinds

The world's oceans are full of these things, and have been for decades. I'm surprised that anyone is surprised they've been out there and washing up for a long time.

[Festivito]

51. Thank you. So, it comes from OTHER oil wells that leak.

And, now NPR is letting us know (before the oil hits land) that the problem is overblown.

Well, they'd better do that quickly.

[gtar100]

19. Oh good. Nothing to worry about then.

This has already been all over the news. Good thing our media is on top of this story. :sarcasm:


... assholes.

Once again they are treating the public like idiots.

[Grey]

21. A bunch of oil rigs were lost or damaged during Katrina,

I don't remember how many, Were they ever repaired or capped?
There is a chance that they are still burping or gushing or what ever you want to call those leaks.
Has any one been down there to have a look? If not, Why Not?

[caseymoz]

22. My response: so what else is BP hiding from us?

If not from Deepwater Horizon, what aren't they telling us?

Not that it's going to matter in the mid-long run, because the Keys will get hit by this oil slick, from Deepwater Horizon, fairly soon.

[fascisthunter]

23. yuh... just a coincidence

[jberryhill]

25. 2009 - "Tarballs A Common Sight On La Jolla Shores"

I'm guessing a lot of people really don't understand how badly polluted the world's waters really are.

You can find tarballs on beaches everywhere, and long before this incident.

I gather the objective here is to make it seem as if this incident is the first time anyone ever spilled oil, or that that oil spills just "go away" after a while.

They don't.


http://www.sdnn.com/sandiego/2009-07-05/environment/tarballs-a-common-sight-on-la-jolla-shores

[Bill McBlueState]

30. that can't be true

It doesn't agree with my uninformed speculation.

[salazarmms]

32. Coast Guard is contradicting itself...

McClatchy Newspapers 05.19.10:
"The Coast Guard commandant, Adm. Thad Allen, said that despite the siphoning, the spilled oil is spreading and now stretches from western Louisiana to Florida's Key West."

commandant says the oil now stretches to Key West? then who cares about the tar balls when a slick is there?

[superconnected]

33. So where did these tar balls come from? No I don't believe them.

[kirby]

37. I read somewhere...

That the tarball was most likely from a sunken trawler in Biscayne Bay.

Source: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/federal-officials-tar-balls-rolling-in-current-toward-696352.html

It is kinda irrelevant though because in another week there will be actual tar balls from the actual oil geyser.

[DebbieCDC]

45. So where'd they come from? Mars?

Geesh, if you believe this crap I have some nice bridges in New York to sell you.

[Nihil]

50. Denial - not just a river in Egypt

> Geesh, if you believe this crap I have some nice bridges in New York to sell you.

How much did you pay the last "owner" for them?

Shame how many people are convinced - like "true believer" convinced - that this
was the first crude oil ever spilled anywhere in the world or that the chemistry
of "tar balls" is universally identical regardless of their source ...

:eyes: