Soros Says `We Have Just Entered Act II' of Crisis

[swag]

Source: Bloomberg

Billionaire investor George Soros said “we have just entered Act II” of the crisis as Europe’s fiscal woes worsen and governments are pressured to curb budget deficits that may push the global economy back into recession.

“The collapse of the financial system as we know it is real, and the crisis is far from over,” Soros said today at a conference in Vienna. “Indeed, we have just entered Act II of the drama.”

Soros, 79, said the current situation in the world economy is “eerily” reminiscent of the 1930s with governments under pressure to narrow their budget deficits at a time when the economic recovery is weak.

Concern that Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis may spread sent the euro to a four-year low against the dollar on June 7 and has wiped out more than $4 trillion from global stock markets this year. Europe’s debt-ridden nations have to raise almost 2 trillion euros ($2.4 trillion) within the next three years to refinance, according to Bank of America Corp.


Read more: http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-10/soros-says-we-have-just-entered-act-ii-of-crisis-as-europe-s-woes-spread.html

[azul]

1. Act III, peak oil crunch 2013-15?

The financial industry: Trust us, all this complexity strengthens the system and makes the country wealthy.

The oil giants: Trust us, there are decades of oil left in the ground, and it doesn't really harm the ecosystem to burn the heck out of it.

Trade secrets and PR campaigns, we'll get fooled again, for the final time.

[Paranoid Pessimist]

22. And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain . . . n/t

[fascisthunter]

2. basically rich families are bankrupting the World

the people didn't do this by themselves, nor did the orchestrate this madness.

[DJ13]

3. Yep, and they want the poor to do without gov aid to pay for it

Were getting close to pitchforks and guillotines at this rate.

[fascisthunter]

4. they want the government to work solely for them and not the people

fascists

[harun]

72. They have been egregiously successful in that effort.

When the super-rich in the U.S. say jump our "representatives" ask how high and how fast?

[Voltaire]

17. The sooner the better

we should have been at pitchforks and guillotines DECADES ago

[happygoluckytoyou]

27. IT IS NOW AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN ABOUT EXACTLY ONE THING...CLASS WARFARE....

AND THE GOP ONLY LIVES BY CONVINCING PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE ON THE TIP OF THE PYRAMID, NOT THE BASE...

[Lagomorph]

42. And then again....

....there just might be a little more to it than that....

[Sherman A1]

59. Precisely

And they use every device to divide and conquer the working class.

[Myrina]

29. ... we could get so lucky ...

... as long as they keep force-feeding us Prozac, Ritalyn, 99 cent happy meals, American Idol, Real Housewives and all that other mind numbing drivel, the elites can take everything but the cable connection, a shack with 4 walls and a case of beer, and most of America won't know the difference - and once they do figure it out, they'll be too fat and mentally out of shape to do anything about it.

:(

[Knight Hawk]

60. Pitchforks?

Yes we will have the pitchforks and they will have the guns.One thing I always shared with the right wing was their distaste on gun control.

[WinkyDink]

62. No weapon you could acquire trumps the govt's.

[tomp]

69. excellent point. but they still have to get someone...

...to pull the trigger on their brothers and sisters. once the curtain is pulled down and sides are being drawn, it gets a little harder.

it'll probably come down to control of food, water, and energy. there are ways.

[NickB79]

80. Yeah right. Tell that to the Iraqis and Afghans

Homemade bombs and small arms trumped US military power.

[clarence swinney]

44. 1980-2009 Bless the rich

1945-1980 were Great Middle Class Years.
Affordable Education-Homes-Health Care-Jobs Jobs-Unions-Pensions

Reagan and Neo-Cons came on in 1981.
Ir was intentional ENRICH Wall Street reduce Middle Class.
1945-1% owned 30% Total Financial Wealth
1980-1% owned 20%
1989-36% (Ron big tax cuts for 1%)

2008--Bush Finished the Job
1%=43%
10%=70%
20%=93%
80%=7%-=120,000,000 workers=SHAFTED

20 years 3 Conservative presidents
18 years Conservative Senate
12 years Conservative House
6 years TOTAL CONTROL
Bush 8 let Wall Street go into Big Time Gambling
Instead of using investors money to create new businesses and increase current ones and create Jobs,
They created 31,000 Net New Jobs per Month.A shame.
Prior were Carter 218,000--Reagan 175,000--Clinton record 237.000
31,000 was an insult to working America.
During Bush 8 Wall Street shipped 2,300,000 of our jobs to China.
It will take creation of 250,00 new jobs per month for five years to get back to full employment (5%)

The Conservative ideology of Market knows best gave us Great Depression and Great Recession. Even Ultra Conservative Alan Greenspan had to admit it.

WHAT DID THEY DO??
Since 1980
60% Tax Cut to Top 1%
47% Tax Cut to Gamblers on Wall Street in Unearned Income Tax
Huge Estate Tax Cut
Revenue Sharing costs to rich in income taxes transferred to Middle Class in property taxes.
Fed gave Bush 1% Interest and big increase in Total Money Supply
1920's Deja Vu. Banks rushed to borrow and lend lend lend to Developers
to build homes too large-too expensive for middle class declining disposable income
Increased Middle Class Payroll Tax
Taxes SS income
Five Cent Tax On Gas
Spending Spree on Defense which enriched Rich Investors in Defense
stocks,.
The Big Three took a 1000B of Debt from Carter and added on 8000B in 20 years of Spend + Borrow Our kids Can Pay Tomorrow.

Carter left Reagan a 600B Budget to which he added on 80%.
Carter left Reagan a less than 1000B of Debt and he added on 1700B
Clinton left Bush an 1800 B Budget which Bush took to 3600B..
Clinton left Bush a Surplus as far as an eye could see and Bush added on
6000B Debt or more than we had after 220 years.Grover Nutquist had a party..

Folks! It was intentional. Grover Nutquist of ATR made 127 visits to White House in Bush first term. He was one who wanted to drown Government in a bathtub..How! Spend and Borrow to force us to eliminate Social Programs.
He has us, in 2010, exactly where he wanted us.
Facts hurt. Democrats are just dumb to not preach it over and over
8 more of Neocons And American World Status will disappear to number two or three or worse.
Neocon ideology destroyed Rome-Spain-Holland-England and now America?
cswinney old ugly mean honest

prove me wrong please with facts and numbers

[fascisthunter]

55. good post

[HCE SuiGeneris]

63. Recommended. n/t

[glitch]

64. Can't. I think the "elite" have turned down an evolutionary deadend.

Doesn't appear they can evolve, they appear to believe they've reached some kind of apex.

If they weren't killing our planet and us (and themselves) I'd have more pity for them.

[tomp]

70. if you look carefully, you will see this was all done...

...with the assistance of the democratic party. whether intentionally (my guess) or through incompetence, it clearly shows the failure of the democratic party to defend the interests of the majority of americans. to try to shift our problems entirely to the republicans is flatly wrong, however correct your numbers may be.

[fascisthunter]

73. very true

[Kringle]

76. the euro didn't exist in 1980 ,nt

[valerief]

49. Yes, history repeats itself this way. That's okay. They'll wipe us out with a

plague (to which they have the antidote) and start over with robots.

[glitch]

65. And then the robots will aquire the ability to evolve and turn on them.

Since they turned off that ability generations ago they'll be helpless.

Evolve or Die, Assholes.

[femrap]

5. As Soros said.....

the derivatives are a 'license to kill.' The 'financiers' target a sovereign country and attack its bonds. And they have absolutely no insurable interest in the bonds whatsoever.

The insane are ruling the world.

[Jefferson23]

6. In the mean time, our lawmakers are keeping the wealthy happy here at home:

Legacy for One Billionaire: Death, but No Taxes

June 8, 2010


A Texas pipeline tycoon who died two months ago may become the first American billionaire allowed to pass his fortune to his children and grandchildren tax-free.

Dan L. Duncan, a soft-spoken farm boy who started with $10,000 and two propane trucks, and built a network of natural gas processing plants and pipelines that made him the richest person in Houston, died in late March of a brain hemorrhage at 77.

Had his life ended three months earlier, Mr. Duncan’s riches — Forbes magazine estimated his worth at $9 billion, ranking him as the 74th wealthiest in the world — would have been subject to a federal tax of at least 45 percent. If he had lived past Jan. 1, 2011, the rate would be even higher — 55 percent.

Instead, because Congress allowed the tax to lapse for one year and gave all estates a free pass in 2010, Mr. Duncan’s four children and four grandchildren stand to collect billions that in any other year would have gone to the Treasury.

The United States enacted an estate tax in 1916, and when John D. Rockefeller, America’s first billionaire, died in 1937, his estate paid 70 percent. Since then, the rates have fluctuated, but this is the first time the tax has been repealed altogether.

The bonanza in tax savings for Mr. Duncan’s descendants is sure to be unsettling to those who have paid estate taxes on more modest wealth — until Jan. 1 of this year, it applied to any estate valued at more than $3.5 million, taxing only the money exceeding that threshold, or $7 million for a couple’s estate.

Although the tax affects only about 5,500 estates a year, it is such an incendiary issue that when Congress unexpectedly let it lapse at the end of 2009, financial advisers warned that it might play a macabre factor in the end-of-life decisions being weighed by heirs of elderly Americans. Some estate lawyers worried that tax considerations might prompt their clients to keep an ill relative on life support through the end of 2009 to get the favorable treatment — or worse, resist life-prolonging measures to hasten a relative’s demise before the end of 2010.

The one-year lapse in the estate tax was signed into law by President George W. Bush in 2001, an accounting quirk in his package of tax cuts. Although Democrats pledged to close that gap and reinstate a tax for 2010 when they took control of Congress, they failed to reach an agreement last December. The Senate Finance Committee is now trying to forge a compromise that would reinstate the tax, but even if that effort succeeds, it is unclear whether any changes might be retroactive and applied to those who have died so far in 2010.

Many lawyers say Mr. Duncan’s heirs have the means and motivation to wage a fierce court battle to challenge the constitutionality of any retroactive tax.

Representatives of Mr. Duncan’s family, his estate and his business interests did not return calls about the matter. Mr. Duncan’s will, which is on file at the Harris County Probate Court in Houston, was written in 2006 and amended in 2008, a time when most estate planners assumed that Congress would not allow the tax to lapse. Federal law has long allowed an unlimited amount of assets to pass untaxed to a surviving spouse, and Mr. Duncan left his home and ranch to his wife of more than 20 years, Jan, along with stock valued at hundreds of millions of dollars.

But the bulk of his estate is left to his children and grandchildren, and would have been taxable in 2009 or 2011.

In addition to personal effects bequeathed to his descendants — boats, jewelry, automobiles, shotguns and a 5,500-acre Texas hunting ranch stocked with wild game — he passed on his holdings in EPCO and Dan Duncan L.L.P., two entities in the natural gas and pipeline empire he built. The stock involved includes more than 100 million shares in Enterprise GP Holdings, which closed at $43.23 the last trading day before Mr. Duncan died. That asset alone could have resulted in a $2 billion estate tax.

The Treasury collected more than $25 billion in estate taxes in 2008, the most recent year for which data is available.

Elaborate estate plans with sophisticated trusts are often made many years before death to reduce estate taxes owed by the richest.

Advocates of the tax say it is unconscionable that Congressional leaders have allowed the richest Americans to reap a new tax break at a time when deficits are soaring and the income gap between wealthy and poor citizens remains near historic levels.

“The ultrawealthy in this country will still be able to pass on enormous wealth to the next generation,” said Chuck Collins, who studies income inequality and has worked with billionaires like Warren E. Buffett and Bill Gates to promote an estate tax. Mr. Collins argues that the tax is a “recycling program for economic opportunity.”

But opponents, who label it a death tax, say it is unfair because it taxes the same income twice — once when it is earned and again when it is passed on to heirs.

Mr. Duncan’s eldest daughter, Randa Duncan Williams, is serving as executor of the estate and is a voting member of the family trust that will now control her father’s interest in Enterprise GP Holdings.

Should the family trust sell these inherited shares, capital gains taxes would presumably be owed on the difference between Mr. Duncan’s original cost, which could be quite low, and their market value when sold. Capital gains taxes are capped at 15 percent.

Ms. Williams, who has served as a director and general partner at the family’s energy businesses for years, was deeply involved in her father’s philanthropic efforts and is expected to continue much of that charitable work.

During his life, Mr. Duncan contributed to a wide assortment of wildlife foundations and community institutions like the Houston Zoo and Houston Museum of Science, and an assortment of medical institutions. The various medical centers at Baylor College of Medicine received more than $250 million from Mr. Duncan and his wife, with more than $100 million used to found the Dan L. Duncan Cancer Center.

Mr. Duncan’s will designates a handful of nonprofit groups and charitable foundations that will receive donations, all of which would have been tax-exempt even in years when the estate tax was in effect.

An avid big game hunter — Mr. Duncan has more than 500 entries in the Safari Club International record book for killing animals including polar bears, rhinoceroses, bighorn sheep, lions and elephants — he made a $1 million donation in his will to the Shikar Safari Club International Foundation.

The will also directs that any money or assets not otherwise specified for a relative or charity be deposited into two family charitable trusts, which can be used to donate to causes deemed worthy by his heirs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/business/09estate.html?dbk

[pscot]

26. This really deserves a thread of its own

Several, in fact.

[defendandprotect]

52. Interesting ... didn't know about that -- but are they sure it was a brain hemmorrhage....

:evilgrin:

[Leftoverture]

53. Rich is Rich

How come it's ok for Clinton, Soros and Andy Stern to be richer than rich and no one really cares but when some right-ringer gets rich it gives folks fits? I've had this argument with my dad for years and he's never budged an inch.

[Jefferson23]

57. Oh we care, ALL of them need to pay up, and big time. n/t

[ronnie624]

71. WHO says it's ok for Clinton, Soros and Andy Stern to be rich, but not right wingers?

WTF are you talking about? That sounds like some half-baked wingnut talking point. What the hell is it supposed to mean?

[bitchkitty]

77. How nice of you to be so concerned about the poor misunderstood right wing.

Are you lost?

[SILVER__FOX52]

7. None of our leaders are sane.........

including Obama. They act like partisan buffoons. The Whitehouse jumping on the unions for their effort to oust a Corporate Conservadem (Lincoln), is very, very telling. Obama's cabinet picks and his lackluster progressive record, exposes his center right affiliation. If he tries to run as the "change" candidate again, he'll be laughed at.

[KoKo]

9. Well...he will be a very wealthy man when his two terms as President are over

and with what he's been through he will feel he deserves whatever he can get.

[smoogatz]

11. Well, he's certainly not the transformative leader we'd all hoped for

and that the country desperately needed. He's kind of Clinton without the blowjobs, so far, and without the good luck to have been elected in a period of relative peace and prosperity. The Democratic caucuses in congress are partly to blame for that--they're obviously not at all interested in advancing anything that looks remotely like a progressive agenda; they're the most conservative bunch of Democrats in memory, and it's likely to get worse. Obama himself has been housed to some extent by the Republican opposition--he still backs down much too easily in the face of all their bluster, although he seems to be learning, maybe. Rahm and the DLC cadre within the White House are also a serious problem. We thought we'd gotten rid of them when Obama beat out Hillary for the nom, but they came roaring back again. Speaks to Obama's naivete, maybe--or to his true leanings.

Anyway, none of this is good news: we need a Roosevelt, not a bunch of Hoovers. The answer is to tax the piss out of the rich and use the money to get everybody working, but strangely nobody's suggesting that.

[SILVER__FOX52]

21. AMEN !!

Well said.

[JDPriestly]

24. The problem is what kind of leader will we get if the left cannot lead?

Obama has been characterized by the Mainstream Media as "left."

Too many people believe that and think that his failure is a failure of the left.

When he fails, and he is failing miserably, will the people turn to the right?

That is why Obama's henchmen criticize the unions and the true center left movement as much as they can.

Those of us who hold to the ideals of the traditional Democratic Party, and who are reviled by Obama and his buddies, have to hold steady and not be dragged right or left.

We have the answers. We have to find someone who is strong and can speak common sense to the American people, the common sense we understand so well.

Obama, as we have seen, is just another corporatist. He will not have the courage to reign in the derivatives trading, and that will be our downfall.

[KoKo]

66. My worry is that the "Left" prefers to be always the "Victim" and never either a Leader or Avenger

for what has gone before.

The Dem Left is always told to "Move Along, Get Along and just show up at the rigged Polls."

We are just dumb soldiers to "get in line" ...say "Yes Sir or Ma'm" and cough it down, decade after decade.

We are fools.

[JDPriestly]

67. Hopefully the Democrats will retain the majority in Congress this year.

But if they don't, just watch the Republicans find some excuse to impeach Obama. I predict that will happen. The country will be torn in two if that happens. But maybe Obama will understand why some of us old-timers wanted to see legitimate prosecutions brought against those who committed crimes.

[KoKo]

68. Many of the Dems are not better than Repugs. We've seen that in the last 18 months and before.

We who expect anything from our Party as it is today...are fools.

[SILVER__FOX52]

74. Man. The..........

saddist truth I have ever heard.:banghead:

[Lasher]

8. A sure sign it's time to buy European stocks.

Every single European index is up today, from the Swiss Market's 0.91% to 3.04% in Vienna. When people like Soros say it's time to sell, it's time to buy.

[axollot]

50. For sure. For avg people who can buy should because those markets

will return - not day-trading fast but if able to hang on long enough. Soro's and other billionaires are in such a different bracket to the low guy w/a grand - 10g in the market. A point either direction could make the larger investors sell or buy depending.

cheers
Sandy

[truedelphi]

10. Boy isn't it funny, funny, FUNNY that

This European crisis was not mentioned until after so many in the Senate persuaded Senator Sanders to water down his "Audit the Fed" bill?

And isn't it funny, funny, FUNNY that while our Fed and Treasury have no ABILITY to help out any of the many US states and Counties with their deficits, such that teachers, fire people, project managers, social workers and others all have been pink slipped, apparently Bernanke can see to it, both directly and indirectly, that there is money available to the heads of financial firms in Europe to help them there.

[dotymed]

25. Funny too

that the European health model and their economic model were in terrific shape until after our "health care" fiasco. We all know that it is much cheaper to have universal health care, but then it started "breaking" the Europeans. Fuck this Fascism, yes we need(ed) and still do an FDR.

[liberation]

36. Funny, how some of those European countries have lower levels of public debt than the US even...

... yet, they're going under for helping their poor. Funny how no one mentions who is doing all that "rating" of those debts, eh? Funny how no major US investment firm is mentioning how if the ECB (or the Japanese and Chinese for that matter) hadn't bought toxic dollars in droves in 07/08, the dollar would have sunk faster than Paris Hilton's nickers at an orgy. Funny how these financial experts ever so concerned about "Debt" conveniently forget that is basically the main product of their "industry": debt packages. And those toxic bullshit debt packages they work on are blowing up left and right, and are the main reason why the world economy is in the shitter.

Apparently debt is great when it comes to be the basis for their "fortunes." But then debt is "awful" when it is used to help poor people. Even though, it is not real debt, since most of those social services are paid for via taxes, not debt obligations.


Also none of these experts bother mentioning that governments can't issue their own money, and thus they have to issue debt (i.e. bonds) in order to be able to put money in circulation. There are many funny thing about "debt." I find it hilarios when those whose livelihood depends entirely upon debt (the financial industry) talks about the perils of debt. It is like a rat poison maker talking about the ills of toxic chemicals.

[truedelphi]

75. !!!

Excellent post (Except for the part that maligned Paris Hilton. And she has enough of a sense of humor to withstand it.)

But other than that, pretty good points.

[meegbear]

12. And how many "Acts" are there?

[quakerboy]

13. As many as it takes.

[xxqqqzme]

16. Then it's

'Curtains'!

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. I'm guessing the grand finale will be...

...the death of capitalism and the birth of a new nation.

[liberation]

20. Nah, there will not be grand finale, and if it ends... it will be with a whimper

Humans have lived with capital-based systems for thousands of years. Money is an interesting human development though, because unlike previous human developments like language, art, hunting, gathering, etc... it became an end onto itself. It is the first tool that has become an end. Thus the weird feed back cycle in which we have been stuck as a species for a while, sort of makes sense.

The whole boom-bust cycle, IMHO, is nothing but a possible side effect for that very feedback cycle we're stuck in.

The only way to finally move forward will be with further human evolution. But sadly, that implies actual change, and most humans hate change. So that either will take a looooooong time, or may never happen.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. It's about the safety nets.

Now is the time to rub their faces in it.

[azul]

31. Neuroscience is examining the effeccts of money on the brain.

Humans have developed an area of the brain that gets dopamine rewards from obtaining money. Like food, sex, and drugs, money is pleasurable. When we outlaw or put dire restrictions on drugs and sex, and to some extent food, love of money becomes the legal and rewarding passion for hedonists.

We got gamblers that bet with other people's money that love their jobs enormously. We are suffering a financial system that outrageously rewards an addictive mental disorder.

[liberation]

34. Interesting. Do you have links to those studies, I would be very interested in reading more

It would most definitively explain among other things, why some (if not most) of the wealthiest individuals are at the end of the day nothing more than gamblers at a grandiose scale. Ask any economist

I have always been very fascinated in knowing how things are the way they are. I assumed it was simple sociopathy that drove some of these individuals (and for the most part successful capitalists are in no other terms a functional sociopaths). But there must have been some reward center that drove their actions, and what you described may explain it.

[azul]

41. There are many studies since 2004.

a start:


"The pleasure of orgasm, the high from cocaine, the rush of buying Google Inc. at $450 a share --- the same neural network governs all three, Knutson, 38, concluded. What's more, our primal pleasure circuits can, and often do, override our seat of reason, the brain's frontal cortex, the professor says. In other words, stocks, like sex, sometimes drive us crazy."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a45yNOnzzWq0&refer=canada-redirectoldpage

[liberation]

48. Thanks!

[bitchkitty]

78. Capitalism is not thousands of years old. n/t

[liberation]

18. It depends, placebos usually take a few tries before they start working

and our economic system, is for all intents and purposes based on what amounts to a placebo (i.e. capital).


That is why economic recessions are so much fun, they are basically nothing more than suicide by placebo. One day, pooof things go to shit for no apparent reason whatsoever, other than someone has figured out how to make globs of money by speculating on sorts. And voila... suddenly there is a "crisis" Then when others figure out how to make globs of money by speculating on highs, voila... there is a "boom." Rinse, repeat... There must be a bunch of very very very wealthy individuals who must just laugh constantly at the rest of humans trying to make sense of all this. Morons.

[axollot]

58. Love Perry!! n/t

[superconnected]

15. yeah, that news will help Wall Street. Back to wondering what he's shorting.

"Soros gained fame in the 1990s when he reportedly made $1 billion correctly betting against the British pound. He also wagered that Germany’s mark would appreciate after the collapse of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and that Japanese stocks would start to fall in the same year. His firm, Soros Fund Management LLC, manages about $25 billion. "

[L. Coyote]

35. He's certainly shoring up the dollar today

and he owns lots of those!!!

[JDPriestly]

19. Barney Frank: Are you listening? Please. Please.

[Clear Blue Sky]

28. Our debt will soon be over 100% of GDP. Approaching that of Greece, Spain, etc.

[NewJeffCT]

30. Europe, Spain and most of the rest of Europe, plus Japan

all have debt that is far greater than their GDP. Ireland has the worst debt - having debt that is 13x their GDP.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30308959/The_World_s_Biggest_Debtor_Nations?slide=21

[liberation]

32. Now please ask CNBC and Goldman how they defined and calculated those "debts"

You'd be surprised.

[NewJeffCT]

38. OK then, here is another one

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html

The US is still not as bad as other many other countries.

[liberation]

47. Again, my point is that you can't define a whole economy through some arbitrary metrics

I am not claiming the US looks bad, all of the contrary. But I was talking that other economies they are not as bad as they are made to be, and instead they are just being destabilized for a very specific purpose.

The US does not look as bad, beside the fact that those statistics are published by the CIA, you know... the totally trustworthy agency that has never ever lied or mislead ever. (They could be actually may right, but I just take as a matter of course to not take anything that proven liars have to say at face value). Because we're great at creative accounting, sure... our public debt rate is pretty good... because among other things we don't include things like the actual cost of war (1 trillion that voila... dissipates from the budget even though these are actually paid for appropriations and debt issues).

One of our main exports for some time during the past decade has been that: debt packages. So we can sell it, ship it, make it disappear from our books, and then look at other countries which bought it and all of the sudden... oh noes, debt is public enemy #1. Never mind that most of all the debt ranking agencies are American and have now a vested interest in destabilizing other economies.

But we don't have to look at other countries. Debts didn't matter while Bush was bombing the shit of 3rd world countries for the fuck of it. Debts didn't matter when Bush told everyone to rank up debt to go shopping, or else the terrorist were supposed to win. Debts didn't matter when Wallstreet needed a couple trillion bucks to make ends meet, or else the economy was supposed to collapse. But now, all of the sudden, now that people were bitching about better health care, about extending unemployment benefits, about demanding actual stimulus packages to kick-start the economy at the medium and small business level.... now, all of the sudden Bernanke et all are quaking about how bad debt is. What happened? Did debt just turn nasty for some odd reason during the past few months?

Our whole system is built on debt. It is an illusion. It is one of the oldest tricks in the book: lend people money you did not have to begin with, change the interest rates at will to force them to pay you for as long as you can milk them, and make them all sorts of stuff when they can't make up the arbitrary payments. The irony of it all, is that our system is based on confidence (which is what capital is supposed to represent in a way) yet... would you trust on anything any of those sharks in Wallstreet?

As for actual debt figures, especially for EU countries, I suggest you take a look at the actual sourced data from Eurostat et al (which actually have their datasets available for inspection). You'll find something very interesting among that data. For example, Spain has a public debt rate of 53% (which puts it in par with the US), where as Italy has a public debt rate of around 107%. Yet Goldman defines Italy as a dynamic economy in the upswing led by aggressive public initiatives, while Spain is labeled as being at the brink of disaster due to failed public policies. Guess which country has the fascist loving government and which one has a socialist cabinet. Funny how the media simply take a communique by Goldman Sachs and runs with it as a matter of fact.

[KamaAina]

39. Greece is only 16th on that list

:scared:

[L. Coyote]

33. Invest in China!

Watch Sohu.com Inc. as a barometer. Meanwhile the dollar is strong today, 30 Yr Bond = 4.24, +1.22, +40.38%

[totodeinhere]

46. Nope, China will go down with the rest of us.

When the economies of Europe, Japan, and North America collapse, so will China's because they live off of exports to those countries.

[Jim__]

37. I really don't want to hear the right now! - n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

40. "...and I'll profit off it," he added*.

:think:





*Whether this is true, or not

[indio55555]

43. No act III

is World War III. Can't make money from thin air for too long. Something major has to happen hence WW3. It's like hitting the reset button and starting all over again.

[Zorra]

45. OK, I'm listening and making plans accordingly.

When Mr. Soros says the shit is gonna hit the fan, the shit is definitely gonna hit the fan.

[defendandprotect]

51. Any nation still risking its well-being on capitalism is insane . . ..

and it's about time Americans woke up to that, as well --

You can't have democracy without economic democracy --

Capitalism is a system of class warfare -- and the core of capitalism is

exploitation of nature, animal-life -- and humans.

[Leftoverture]

54. Here Here!

I'm sick of working my tail off so my boss can buy a new boat. He was showing picture of it in the break room the other day and I almost stuck a fork in his fat face! It never occurred to him that I couldn't buy a boat if my life depended on it.....

[IDemo]

56. George, you're such a Chicken Little

Or so, several DU'ers will be along to call you that..

[WinkyDink]

61. Time to nationalize all banks. They are waging war against democracies!!

[NoodleyAppendage]

79. TIME TO MAKE WAR! That's the American Way! n/t

J