Tillman mother sought to warn Obama of McChrystal

[kpete]

Source: Politico

June 22, 2010

Tillman mother sought to warn Obama of McChrystal

The mother of the slain football player and Army Ranger Pat Tillman sought to warn President Obama against making General Stanley McChrystal his commander in Afghanistan.

Mary Tillman said in an unpublished interview this year that she wrote to Obama and called Senators and members of Congress seeking to block McChrystal's appointment when she learned that he was under consideration for the post. ("She received no response to the letter")

She called the lack of deliberation leading to his appointment "disgusting" in the interview, given before today's Rolling Stone article http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/119236 spurred intense tension between the general and the White House. An audio recording of the interview was provided to POLITICO by the interviewer, who asked to remain anonymous.

McChrystal has been accused of involvement in covering up of the fact that Tillman had been shot by his own comrades, having approved a citation for a posthumous medal that attributed his death to "enemy fire," though the general also penned a memo warning the White House against describing the circumstance of Tillman's death for fear of future embarrassment.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0610/Tillman_mother_sought_to_warn_Obama_of_McChrystal.html?showall

[xchrom]

1. recommend

[Solly Mack]

2. and let us not forget Camp Nama under his charge

torture and abuse..

[defendandprotect]

11. Thanks for the reminder . . .

In fact I don't recall that one -- so much torture, so little time!!

I'll have to look it up. But this seems a man HIGHLY unsuited as military leader.

http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/will-the-senate-ask-mcchrystal-about-torture-under-his-command/

Got it -- thank you --

Sadly . . .

It was so secretive that a military witness told a Human Rights Watch investigator:

the colonel told them that he "had this directly from General McChrystal and the Pentagon that there’s no way that the Red Cross could get in…they just don’t have access, and they won’t have access, and they never will. This facility was completely closed off to anybody investigating. Even Army investigators."

AND . . .

Placards posted by soldiers at the detention area advised, ”NO BLOOD, NO FOUL.” The slogan, as one Defense Department official explained, reflected an adage adopted by Task Force 6-26: ”If you don’t make them bleed, they can’t prosecute for it.” According to Pentagon specialists who worked with the unit, prisoners at Camp Nama often disappeared into a detention black hole, barred from access to lawyers or relatives, and confined for weeks without charges. ”The reality is, there were no rules there,” another Pentagon official said

[Solly Mack]

17. You're welcome. Yes, it's very ugly.

and with those other photos that will never be seen...photos showing the abuse and torture inside facilities other than Abu Ghraib (but within Iraq and Afghanistan) - we may never know just how truly ugly it is.

[defendandprotect]

89. Wrong of Obama not to permit them to be released ... courts were pushing for it ....

[Soylent Brice]

19. Camp Nama:

As the Iraqi insurgency intensified in early 2004, an elite Special Operations forces unit converted one of Saddam Hussein's former military bases near Baghdad into a top-secret detention center. There, American soldiers made one of the former Iraqi government's torture chambers into their own interrogation cell. They named it the Black Room.

In the windowless, jet-black garage-size room, some soldiers beat prisoners with rifle butts, yelled and spit in their faces and, in a nearby area, used detainees for target practice in a game of jailer paintball. Their intention was to extract information to help hunt down Iraq's most-wanted terrorist, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, according to Defense Department personnel who served with the unit or were briefed on its operations.

The Black Room was part of a temporary detention site at Camp Nama, the secret headquarters of a shadowy military unit known as Task Force 6-26. Located at Baghdad International Airport, the camp was the first stop for many insurgents on their way to the Abu Ghraib prison a few miles away.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/international/middleeast/19abuse.html


:grr:
you have an excellent memory.

[Solly Mack]

20. or a one track mind :)

I'm not letting it go.

[Soylent Brice]

21. don't let it go. i'm not, and neither will the rest of us who give a shit.

:thumbsup:

[defendandprotect]

95. As Jane Hamsher was asking, "would Congress question McChrystal on torture ....

and how often does the "free press" mention it?

Just a minor little detail in the right wing "Americah" --

[Ignis]

144. "Why do you hate the troops?!?!?!?" would be the inevitable response.

I thought America had shrugged off some of her ever-growing worship of militarism with the 2008 election, but plus ça change, eh?

[lonestarnot]

115. Here's to not letting go and never getting OVER it!

:toast:

[Ignis]

41. +1, thanks for bringing this up.

How could the administration possibly overlook all the warning signs on this guy?

:shrug:

[truedelphi]

51. How can the Administration overlook how over 60% of the American people

Want both wars ended NOW!

But the Political Class elite only need Us (the People) during election cycles.

DOD and Halliburton, Big Money interests like Obama's Banking friends, they love thems some war.

[Enthusiast]

60. And the ones you cited, they

are the ones holding the microphone. And we don't have a microphone. Apparently our voice is only a whisper.

[truedelphi]

67. Hey a whispering voice is quite enticing there in Washington DC

As long as it is whispering about how much money is going into the campaign coffers.

As in, "Psst. over here. I have some message for ya right in this here pocket. It's not a gun, it's that I am glad to see you, Mr Rahm Emmanuel, and the bulge is next to my wallet!"

[Ignis]

62. Ending wars? Bah, that's so 2008!

I'd do a Jon Stewart-esque comparison of the words of Candidate Obama vs. President Obama here, but I just don't have the stamina to deal with the "centrist" dogpile today.

[truedelphi]

64. Stewart has been brilliant - and he offers living "video"

proof of how progressive sounding candidate Obama really was.

Where that guy went, I have no idea, but he morphed into the Best Friend and President that any Big Business ever had in A Democratic human being's body.

[Solly Mack]

92. You're welcome.

[northernlights]

117. the danger of looking forward

and not stopping to hold criminals accountable and liable for their action. :(

[Ignis]

145. That's the damn truth.

At least in the '70s we had Lt. Calley to kick around.

This decade, we've been presented with ridiculously low-ranking scapegoats like Lynndie England.

I hate to see this great country lose her moral authority from the death by a thousand cuts, while most of us apathetically snooze in front of the TV.

[janedum]

147. Wasn't an Obama promise to "get out" of ... somewhere?

[katandmoon]

3. K&R for Mary Tillman

[defendandprotect]

14. +++

[Jefferson23]

4. What a freaking mess, who can blame her? n/t

[polichick]

5. Seems our prez often ignores the people who could help him most. nt

[AndyA]

6. Ain't it the truth?

And surrounds himself with people he knows are problematic. :shrug:

[polichick]

8. Yeah, his "team of rivals" policy is screwing this country over! nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. Communication.

Always has been a problem. We at the lowest levels see things that are not clear to those at the top. That's because it benefits everyone in the middle to filter the information.

[truedelphi]

52. People? I imagine those in charge of this Adminstration

need to look the word "people" up in the dictionary.

It is no where near to those terms they use most: Banks, Bailouts, Too Big To Fail, Corporate Persons...

[sce56]

118. So you noticed the pattern also? n/t

[janedum]

146. Yes, Obama does IGNORE the ppl he shouldn't. Makes me wonder about him???

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Interesting. Who is vettingt these people out for Obama?

[glitch]

10. Probably the same people who sent the letter from the immigrant's wife to ICE.

They aren't on his side.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

9. Sounds like firing the sonofabitch might not be enough...

Investigate these allegations.

[Travis Coates]

13. I'm sorry did I miss something?

I must have missed the part of this article where Mary Tillman's credentials to select the theater commander where discussed.

[defendandprotect]

15. Right . . . applying humane values to selection of commanders should be tossed --

so should information about TORTURE under his command, I suppose?

http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/will-the-senate-ask-mcchrystal-about-torture-under-his-command

[Plucketeer]

18. GOODNESS YES!

We need folks in charge who are focused on results - be damned the way they're achieved! Think of the mess in the Gulf right now. Yeah, THAT'S the sort of results we need! :crazy:

[GliderGuider]

22. How about her right to have an opinion on the subject?

Something that her son presumably thought he was dying to defend?

[Travis Coates]

33. I never said she shouldn't have an opinion

Or that she shouldn't be able to freely express it. I said (in essence) she's not qualified to advise the President on who he should select as Theater Commander

[flyarm]

42. I think she had more invested than this pesident did! And probably more knowledge. eom

[sabrina 1]

102. More qualified, judging by the results, than whoever did advise him!

[G_j]

112. well from the sound of things she was MORE qualified

in this case.

[Divine Discontent]

134. thank you! good 1... sad it has to be true, but again, still a good point!

[DeSwiss]

23. Yes. You missed quite a lot. n/t

[green917]

26. Last time I checked...

Integrity is listed as one of the Core Values of the United States Army. This man lied in an official document (the awards & decs. form) regarding an attack on 1 of his troops solely so they could use Pat Tillman's death as a recruiting tool (read as: for political gain). That doesn't quite meet the integrity "smell test" in my world and, this woman who has lost her son and been repeatedly lied to by this man and others within her own government about the death of her son, has EVERY right to vocalize her opinion about this man's ability to lead. I, as it happens, couldn't agree more with her! If McChrystal is the best we can do in Afghanistan, we're even more fu(ked than I thought we were in Afghanistan (& I didn't think that was possible).

[LiberalFighter]

68. Which Army?

[EFerrari]

28. Or maybe you missed the whole part where this is a democratic republic. n/t

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

37. Excuse me?

You didn't just imply that Mrs. Tillman's accurate assessment of this general officer is less accurate because she is a woman, did you?

[Divine Discontent]

44. why, yes, yes he did.

[flyarm]

45. I would say that is exactly what he did! Nice huh? eom

[EFerrari]

It's too bad we couldn't get Mary Tillman for SecDef.

She's have that midden heap cleaned up in no time. She's a no shit person.

[flyarm]

65. and she has more integrity than all of them, to the top office of this land have!!

but wtf is integrity anymore..when those of us screaming about Obama putting this guy in charge of Afghan..we were told to basically stfu here among supposedly democrats..or we were called haters or worse!

Up is down and down is up anymore!!

:hi: lady..

seems Bite me ..is more offensive than lying about the death of a Soldier..

[Travis Coates]

72. No I did not and if I gave that impression I apologize

What I am attempting to communicate is that she has no military background and zero qualifications to make military suggestions or advise the President on doing so. this is true irrespective of her gender. I would raise the same objection if we were discussing Tillman's father.

[City Lights]

82. Sure you would. You'd prolly refer to him as a "househusband," right?

:eyes:

[Travis Coates]

84. Prolly (sic) not

I would have said "I am aware this is a democratic republic does that mean we should let an (insert appropriate occupation here) select our command general staff?".

I am unaware that Mrs. Tillman is employed there for she would ,in fact, be a housewife (or homemaker if you prefer) but if you can't refute my argument W/out throwing the "gender inequality card" I will accept that as a concession

Good day

[City Lights]

87. She worked as a special-education teacher.

<snip>

Mary attended San Jose State University once her youngest son was in third grade. She received a degree in history then went back to school several years later to get special ed credential. She worked for San Jose Unified School District, first as a substitute then as a special education teacher at Bret Harte Middle School.

<snip>

In October 2007, Mary left her teaching position due to obligations with regard to the book she wrote about her son, Boots On The Ground By Dusk: My Tribute to Pat Tillman.

http://www.womensconference.org/mary-tillman//div]

[Travis Coates]

90. My profound apologies

I will ammend my initial statemnt

I am aware that this is a democratic republic does that mean that we should allow an unemployed special education teacher select our command general staff?

Are you happy now?

[laughingliberal]

107. Recent events would suggest that she & others who objected to McChrystal judged his character well.

Whoever recommended this guy? Not so much. I was appalled when he took his case to the press to force President Obama's hand on Afghanistan policy. I can't believe he was allowed to keep his job after that. But I'm just an umemployed nurse.

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

113. I live in northern Nevada where my husband's business is located.

Job openings for nurses here are few and they consist of full time ICU, ER, or L&D positions for those with recent experience only. My experience is 15 years oncology and 10 of hospice. Unable to handle full time work anymore and being 55 years of age severely limits my chances. There is a reason the average age of retirement for nurses is 57 and it ain't cause we all got rich and were able to retire in comfort.

[EFerrari]

98. And yet she was a better judge of character than Gates the Bush fixer.

[TheMadMonk]

129. Oh, I think she's qualified to advise: Never trust a man who puts expediency...

...and self serving ahead of what's right.

[Myrina]

38. why not? She'd probably do a better job than the suits who have financial interests

... in perpetual war. :shrug:

[Ignis]

43. LOL @ "a housewife"; I'll take sexist bullshit for $500, Alex!

:puke:

[tbyg52]

47. No, but it means she is entitled too express her opinion.

And I'm glad she did.

[Hissyspit]

54. No, she gets to let her elected leaders know what she thinks.

Being a free citizen of a democratic republic. :crazy:

And "Housewife?" Seriously?

Go ahead, defend the torture prison general with absurd reasoning.

[Travis Coates]

78. I invite you to quote the post

in which I stated she had no right to express her opinion to her elected leaders. You are also free to cite my defense of the "torture prison general" as well as my absurd reasoning.

I'll wait

[Hissyspit]

85. She wasn't selecting the theatre commander. She was communicating concerns

to the person who would, based on the knowledge she had of the man and his record. Your whole post was based on a false premise. Attacking the woman's critique and the right for her to make this critique using this false premise amounts to defending the general, implicitly at the least. And he is the torture prison general.

The sexism didn't help your argument much either.

[wildbilln864]

152. See post #85! nt

:eyes:

[d_b]

55. you're doing it wrong, kid.

[Hissyspit]

LOL

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/04/watch_a_montage_of_hilarious_i.html

[d_b]

61. ha!

nice little collection there.

[Bluebear]

32. Yes, you missed a hell of a lot actually. nt

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Travis Coates]

76. I love progressives

I love how we're so tolerant that anyone who has an opinion contrary to the current groupthink is labeled a freeper (isn't that against DU rules BTW?)

[Hissyspit]

88. Nothing in the world requires progressives to be "tolerant" of ignorance

illogic, and sexism. You are misapplying the term tolerance.

And it's not groupthink. You're using that term incorrectly, too.

Sorry someone accused you of being a freeper. I am not accusting you of being a freeper.

[Travis Coates]

91. I sincerely did not intend to employ sexism in any post I made NT

[Hissyspit]

104. I did not see your previous post on that, so apologies

for bringing it up again. But keep in mind that 'housewife' is pretty much considered derogatory and archaic nowadays.

[Hissyspit]

57. It's the part where she did all the research on the general after her son was murdered

and the government covered the murder up.

[joe black]

59. Her son died from friendly fire.

Buy a clue.

[KamaAina]

63. I suppose you think Cindy Sheehan's opinions about the war don't matter, either

:eyes:

[Travis Coates]

75. I don't think national policy should be based on them

I don't know if that qualifies as not mattering.

[patrice]

83. How does one need credentials to say that there should be an evaluation process for selection?

[Travis Coates]

86. One doesn't

But one should expect one's opinion to be given the credence that a complete lack of credentials dictates.

BTW there is an evaluation process for selection or do you think they just pull a name out of a hat.

[patrice]

97. Oh honey, I know all about "evaluation" "processes" & A mother completely lacks credentials,

when she asks questions about how a person who makes life and death decisions about her and others' sons is chosen?

You are aware, of course, that, no matter how indirectly, the military IS subject to civilian governance are you not?

[U4ikLefty]

124. Wow, crickets...how surprising. n/t

[sabrina 1]

101. Looks like she was right. So maybe her credentials

ought to be considered in the future. These credentials that were required, looks like they need to be reviewed.

[JonLP24]

106. He covered up her son's death

That is reason enough NOT to pick him. Add the human rights abuse and many other incidents including this one--she was right. OMFG.

[Moochy]

114. Why yeah she only knows about the death of her son and the cover up

No credentials whatsoever.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oceansaway]

16. K&R...n/t

[DeSwiss]

24. K&R

[tom_paine]

25. "Covered it up?" hell, McChrystal probably brought in the CIA Cutouts who put those 3 slugs in Pat's

forehead in a tight pattern.

But I understand why Mary Tillman wouldn't want to go there. It must be awful enough knowing the Bushies used his bloody corpse as a propaganda tool and covered up the truth of the "friendly fire", let alone believing, as almost certainly happened, that Pat was killed because he was the one person who could have broken the Bushiganda spell by speaking out and campaigning for Kerry, which he was intending to do.

Wacky conspiracy theory? No more wackier than the Army doctor, who's repeated concerns that the pattern of bullets was far too tight to be an accident were suppressed by the very same McChrystal.

It came out during the Congressional Hearings on the matter.

You know the Bushies and their Teabagging Followers - they don't believe Democrats or Liberals are even human beings - you think they would balk at murdering one who threatened their entire crooked enterprise.

Oh, Tillman was an atheist, too - which probably made him that much less human in the eyes of McChrystal who "passed on" the orders and whichever CIA/NSA/Special Ops Cutouts murdered Tillman.

Conspiracy Thory? No, him getting "accidentally" shot three times in the forehead in a VERY TIGHT PATTERN is the Conspiracy Theory.

[Moochy]

140. This deserves its own thread

These facts are not part of the narrative, by design.

[newspeak]

142. What I have read about Tillman after his death

was he had a journal, that disappeared after his death. He was against the war in Iraq-thought it was illegal to invade. He loved reading about history, and probably would have voted for Kerry--which makes it so sad that his death was used for political purposes by * for the election. What a slap in the face! I also read that on his leave, he was going to meet with Noam Chomsky. I don't think that was confirmed, but I did read at the time that he had an appointment with Chomsky.

Yeah, something stinks about his death. I believe he was very vocal about the Iraq FUBAR--with Tillman's death, the repukes used him for their own campaigning. Again, such a tragedy and a slap in the face of a honorable man.

[EFerrari]

27. Yes, she did. K&R for Mrs. Tillman. n/t

[Grinchie]

29. ("She received no response to the letter")

Welcome to the club Mrs. Tilman.

[librechik]

30. Obama's WH communications office SUCKS ASS

could no one have spotted that letter and given a polite answer? Or used any of the numerous atrocities the other side has put out since the inauguration as an opportunity to point out the other side's teeth-grinding calumny?

We got elected/appointed and then went to sleep apparently.

[flyarm]

56. it's always someone else's fault..do we know Obama never read the letter?

and did Obama miss all the stories about McCrystal ?

Did he miss Sy Hersh's stories about McCrystal?

Did Obama miss all the stroies we all read and kenw about ..about the torture chambers McCrystal was running?????????

Did Obama know nothing about this MTF'er??????????

If he didn't, I worry alot about the 3 o'clock in the morning call to the white house!

[librechik]

70. yeah--you're more blunt than me, but that's about right.

[Mathilda]

77. I am disappointed in Mr. Obama for not responding to a grieving mother

Even though I believe that even if he had responded, he would have told her that McChrystal was A-Ok anyway.

[librechik]

96. welcome to DU!

and i bet you are right.

[Triana]

31. I could have warned him against that...

...and I did post some background here on DU about McChrystal a while back.

[davidinalameda]

34. any proof that obama saw the letter?

[Ignis]

46. Any proof that he didn't?

:shrug:

So much for the great Democratic tradition of "The buck stops here."

[davidinalameda]

99. just asking

jeesh

take a swing at somebody's else

[Ignis]

108. C'mon, would it really make a difference?

If I don't deliver stuff important letters to MY boss, do you think HIS boss cares that it's my fault?

Truman's words still resonate, and the question you were "just asking" strikes me as a cop-out. Sorry if that makes you feel persecuted, but that's not my goal.

:hi:

[davidinalameda]

119. a cop-out?

persecuted?

personal attack much?

[Ignis]

121. I think you're confused. What personal attacks?

If you didn't feel persecuted, why make the comment, "jeesh...take a swing at somebody's else?" (Note: that's a question, not an attack.) That sure sounded to me like you felt that I was somehow unfairly picking on you. What am I missing? :shrug:

And I can certainly opine that I consider your use of "just asking" to be a rhetorical cop-out. Where's the personal attack? :shrug: Again, I'm asking, because I don't see it. It's not like I said that you're a bad person or a horrible cellist or something about you.

Words mean things. :hi:

[sandnsea]

73. This was well known

Doesn't matter whether he saw the letter or not. He knew McChrystal's history, at least as it related to Pat Tillman. Everybody did. McChrystal was chosen because of his supposed superior knowledge of counterinsurgency tactics.

[Mathilda]

79. Do you think Obama would have opposed McChrystal if he had read the letter?

Or not.

[Moochy]

141. He might have opposed it, but I'm sure one of his

gang of rivals would have convinced him otherwise!

[U4ikLefty]

36. I saw "The Tillman Story" at the L.A. Film Festival last weekend.

It's a great film & it got me pissed of all over again.

The effort she put forth to get the truth was amazing. All she got in the end was the brush off from Congress...kinda like Obama's brush-off.

[KansDem]

39. This is bizarre...

I come from an essentially military family: Dad was career Navy until a service-connected disability forced a retirement. Uncle was a retired Air-Force general. Several family members served hitches. And I've always had the up-most respect for those who serve.

But this McChrystal thing is truly become more and more bizarre and is tainting the military in general!

[newtothegame]

40. ALL dissent must be eliminated. These are the times we live in.

The "General" better learn that.

[starroute]

48. There's more in last year's thread on a Seymour Hersh expose

The thread from March 2009 on Hersh's "executive assassination wing" story has a lot about the Joint Special Operations Command, which McChrystal was part of before he got the Afghanistan position. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5259662

I quoted there from a 2006 Newsweek story, which was kind of sucking up to McChrystal but did drop some interesting tidbits:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/52445?tid=relatedcl

Jun 26, 2006

No one would have mentioned his name at all if President George W. Bush hadn't singled him out in public. Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, West Point '76, is not someone the Army likes to talk about. He isn't even listed in the directory at Fort Bragg, N.C., his home base. That's not because McChrystal has done anything wrong--quite the contrary, he's one of the Army's rising stars--but because he runs the most secretive force in the U.S. military. That is the Joint Special Operations Command, the snake-eating, slit-their-throats "black ops" guys who captured Saddam Hussein and targeted Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi.

JSOC is part of what Vice President Dick Cheney was referring to when he said America would have to "work the dark side" after 9/11. To many critics, the veep's remark back in 2001 fostered his rep as the Darth Vader of the war on terror and presaged bad things to come, like the interrogation abuses at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay. But America also has its share of Jedi Knights who are fighting in what Cheney calls "the shadows." And McChrystal, an affable but tough Army Ranger, and the Delta Force and other elite teams he commands are among them.

After the Zarqawi strike, multinational forces spokesman Gen. Bill Caldwell refused to comment on JSOC's role, saying, "We don't talk about when special operating forces are involved." But when Bush revealed to reporters that it was McChrystal's Special Ops teams that had found Zarqawi, Caldwell had to gulp and say (to laughter), "If the president of the United States said it was, then I'm sure it was."

[flyarm]

125. and then there is this By Sy Hersh..this May..

Hersh: U.S Executing Afghan Prisoners

Sat, 15 May 2010 16:48:27 GMT



http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=126589§ionid=351020403

As the Afghan occupation continues to prove troublesome for the Obama administration, a report says US-led troops torture and execute prisoners in the country. Seymour Hersh, an investigative journalist with the New Yorker, made the revelation during the Global Investigative Journalism Conference in Geneva.

"I'll tell you right now, one of the great tragedies of my country is that Mr. Obama is looking the other way, because equally horrible things are happening to prisoners, to those we capture in Afghanistan," Hersh said. He also alleged that US forces were engaged in 'battlefield executions' and other heinous offences, Raw Story reported. "They're being executed on the battlefield. It's unbelievable stuff going on there that doesn't necessarily get reported. Things don't change," Hersh noted.

Hersh who worked for many years at The New York Times also helped break the story that detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq were being tortured by their US jailers. The report comes as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has recently confirmed reports about the existence of a secret detention facility at a US airbase in Bagram in Afghanistan.

Human rights groups say Bagram and other US-ran jail facilities have remained US torture centers since the toppling of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan nine years ago. However, US officials claim that all inmates in the facility are treated humanely.

[me b zola]

49. K&R for Mrs Tillman

[Jeneral2885]

53. so if he goes who to take over?

another US general? or give the post to a NATO general?

[Enthusiast]

58. Fire him now!

He isn't getting the job done anyway. And let's make that a point of emphasis. McChrystal has done a piss poor job!

[kiranon]

66. Agree absolutely. n/t

[Raksha]

69. K & R for Pat and Mary Tillman

[Octafish]

71. Don't forget Lt. Col. Ted Westhusing

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/gen-petraeus-and-a-high-l_b_94458.html

IMO, a contractor killing under Petraeus and Co.

[sabrina 1]

105. Thank you for that reminder. Col. Ted Westhusing

should not be forgotten. Why is it that those who insist on ethical behavior, like Tillman and Westhusing are not held up as heroes, while those with apparently none, are elevated again and again?

In Iraq, Westhusing worked under two generals: Maj. Gen. Joseph Fil, and Petraeus, then a lieutenant general. But Bryce continued: "By late May, Westhusing was becoming despondent over what he was seeing." When his body was found on June, a note was found nearby addressed to Petraeus and Fil. According to Bryce it read:

"Thanks for telling me it was a good day until I briefed you. --You are only interested in your career and provide no support to your staff--no msn support and you don't care. I cannot support a msn that leads to corruption, human right abuses and liars. I am sullied--no more. I didn't volunteer to support corrupt, money grubbing contractors, nor work for commanders only interested in themselves. I came to serve honorably and feel dishonored. I trust no Iraqi. I cannot live this way. All my love to my family, my wife and my precious children. I love you and trust you only. Death before being dishonored any more.

What does it say about the U.S. military when torturers are given medals and those who try to uphold the principles of this country end up dead, one way or another?

[Octafish]

116. This illegal, immoral and unnecessary war has claimed too many lives for no good reason.

There seldom, if ever, is a good reason for war.

A friend of mine's brother was a physician-soldier murdered by a fellow soldier at Camp Liberty in 2009.

Army Maj. Matthew P. Houseal

This is why I hate war, empire or no empire.

PS: Here's more on Col. Westhusing:

Know your BFEE: They kill good soldiers like Col. Ted Westhusing for profit.

Thank you, Sabrina1, for understanding what this is all about.

[sabrina 1]

136. Omg, I am so sorry about your friend's brother.

All those lives gone and the shooter was in a way, no less a victim of this cruel war. It is evil. War is evil and I do not know how anyone can say otherwise. The only time it should be considered is if a country is attacked and has to defend itself.

I had not read about that awful, tragic icident. I wonder how many more there are we do not hear about, not to mention the Iraqis and Afghans who are needlessly dying.

We could do so much good in this world, if we wanted to. And that would almost ensure our safety completely, certainly far more than killing and torturing people.

I will read the second link on Col. Westhusing. I wish he could have tolerated it a bit longer, until he got home safely. Airc, he didn't have much longer to wait before his time was up there.

Thank you Octafish, for all the information you provide, it is a real service as people should not forget the crimes and the victims until one day there are no more.

[flyarm]

126. I remember posting alot about Lt. Col. Ted Westhusing's murder..

and I have no doubt it was murder..by and for our government!

[orbitalman]

74. I'm NOT surprised. nt

[patrice]

80. O.M.G. !~

[patrice]

81. Apparently, the "cream" rises until it turns into curdled blood. nt

[Greyskye]

93. K&R for the Tillman's

I was unaware of the special task force he headed or the Camp Nama crap.

86 him. Now.

[cwydro]

94. This is getting to be like the oil disaster -

just keeps getting uglier and uglier.

[bertman]

100. It's going to be interesting to see if they even attempt to make this look

like McChrystal is being punished. The Military has never liked taking orders from civilians. Especially civilian Congresscritter and Presidents who are not former military or who try to exercise their constitutional authority over the Military.

The fact that McChrystal was even appointed to his position speaks volumes about who controls whom.

[pmorlan1]

103. President Obama - Don't Accept McCrystal's resignation...

FIRE HIM!

[dyingnumbers]

109. It goes downhill from here.

Because of his latest invective against US government concerning the Afghan war, it seems to me that McChrystal could be charged for defamation of character for maligning the vice president.

This does nothing to ensure his credibility, which has apparently been complicated by his involvement in the friendly fire cover-up.

[TxVietVet]

110. He should have heeded her warning.

McChrystal is a scumbag. I remember the incident and feel that McChrystal covered up the incident because he was directed by the bu$hnazi regime and he wanted to keep his stars.

The worse kind of officer is an ass kissing back-stabbing prick like McChrystal. I'll be he's got lots of enemies in the Army officer corps.

[bertman]

131. "bu$hnazi regime". I love that one TxVietVet. I'll bet you're right

about the back-stabbing prick.

Also, hello and welcome from a North Carolina Vietnam vet.

[TxVietVet]

148. Welcome home, brother.

McChrystal was one that was playing to get way ahead of any in his rank category. He did it by lying about Tillman's death. By doing so, he was sucking up to bu$h/cheney, who were running for reelection. Put him in for a Silver Star, also. WTF!!!! Do they realize by doing something like that it cheapens the intent of the award? That's the way I felt.
Here's a story on McChrystal's credibility problem. He's f*cked up 3 or 4 times and possibly gave the Obama administration that he was the only way to go into Afghanistan.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-10-14/gen-mcchrystals-credibility-problem/3


Here's a quote I like to use in my signature sometimes. Think about it.

"When FASCISM comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

[bertman]

151. Thanks for the article. I was up on the Tillman spectacle after doing quite

a bit of reading when the news about the friendly-fire, tight-shot-group-to-the-head revelations came out.

We are facing a concerted effort by a lot of high-ranking military types to undermine President Obama. McChrystal would not have been stupid enough (arrogant enough?) to run his mouth to Rolling Stone without having an idea that he might get some cover for doing it. Which makes me wonder what was the real reason for his actions.

The scary aspect of this is the memory of JFK's head-butting with the oil cartel when he was going to rescind the oil depletion allowance COMBINED with his estrangement from the military brass over his refusal to ramp up the nuclear arsenal and go to the mat with the Russians. We know what happened to JFK. Although, it would be hard to make a strong argument that President Obama has done anything to hurt the Oil Cartel, so maybe he only has to worry about McChrystal's whack job buddies.

The Sinclair Lewis quote is a timeless gem.

[TxVietVet]

154. Somewhere along the way, the conservanazis have their followers believe

that ACTIVE military and ALL veterans are conservanazi loving American patriots. That's hardly the case. Tell a wingnut teabagger that you are a Vietnam Veteran and voted Democratic and for Obama and I'll just about bet all that they will call you a traitor.
Personally, I usually get the one of "it's because of people like you (me) that we LOST the war in Vietnam". I've got that one at least 3 times maybe more.

The conservanazi republikkklans WANT the military to undermine Obama. They want Obama to fail so they can rule us again. Make government NOT WORK. That is their only mission. To ultimately destroy this country. Make it a tax haven for the rich and an endless source of uneducated cheap labor.

McChrystal should have been court martialed.

[suffragette]

120. K&R for Mary Tillman

[HCE SuiGeneris]

122. Kick and recommend for truth, and the Tillman's quest to bring the truth to light.

:kick:

[flyarm]

123. Too damn bad Obama didn't listen to Mary Tillman..he wouldn't be involved in this shit then..

Hersh: U.S Executing Afghan Prisoners

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=126589§ionid=351020403

As the Afghan occupation continues to prove troublesome for the Obama administration, a report says US-led troops torture and execute prisoners in the country. Seymour Hersh, an investigative journalist with the New Yorker, made the revelation during the Global Investigative Journalism Conference in Geneva.

"I'll tell you right now, one of the great tragedies of my country is that Mr. Obama is looking the other way, because equally horrible things are happening to prisoners, to those we capture in Afghanistan," Hersh said. He also alleged that US forces were engaged in 'battlefield executions' and other heinous offences, Raw Story reported. "They're being executed on the battlefield. It's unbelievable stuff going on there that doesn't necessarily get reported. Things don't change," Hersh noted.

Hersh who worked for many years at The New York Times also helped break the story that detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq were being tortured by their US jailers. The report comes as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has recently confirmed reports about the existence of a secret detention facility at a US airbase in Bagram in Afghanistan.

Human rights groups say Bagram and other US-ran jail facilities have remained US torture centers since the toppling of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan nine years ago. However, US officials claim that all inmates in the facility are treated humanely.

[Amonester]

127. Perhaps he thought she was "just" another Lefty to ignore... nt

On edit: At that time.

:hide:

[YOY]

130. Yanno...we're such a minute tiny percentage of such an incredibly conservative nation...

Who can help but ignore us?

[Loki]

132. I'm ashamed that President Obama didn't even give this mother

the courtesy of an answer or an informal audience to hear her concerns. Shameful Mr. President, you should know better than to ignore a Gold Star mother who was lied to by her country.

[flyarm]

133. May I correct..her country didn't lie to her..her government did as did politicians!

I don't want my name on this disgusting behavior..I had nothing to do with it other than speaking about about this disgrace!

[saigon68]

135. He's on his way to the end of his career

At this rate 2012 will be interesting.

[Imagevision]

138. Obama man better start painting a better liked leader, can this be his version of leadership?!!

[Ignis]

149. +1. We frequently pilloried Shrub over his treatment of the Gold Star Moms.

But I'll say one thing: At least Obama didn't use them as pro-war props like Shrub did. That was just revolting.

:puke:

[Imagevision]

137. If Obama needed to begin to turn around his unfavorble numbers he couldn't get anything

better then McChrystal's "ass" to kick out of the service to begin to start establishing a better understood Barack Obama. fool me once fool me twice - fool me 95 times? ... fu*k you! Bush would have allowed BP to totally take care of the Gulf mess without any US. guidance and supervision.

[Paper Roses]

139. It would make my day if the President would just fire the jerk.

No more chats, no reconciliations. No more 'I'll do better' on the part of the miscreants. Just plain fire the General and be done with it.

There is too much time and energy spent between events and action by the White House.

[lonestarnot]

143. Mothers know best.

[Jacobin]

150. Sounds like how Colin Powell made his bones

Trying to hide the My Lai massacre in Viet Nam

Disgusting

[SpiralHawk]

153. the k and the r

This is a moment of ultimate republicon shame. They keep turning their back on honorable Ranger Tillman -- and embracing the honorless right wing a-holes who used him. It is so un-American.