'Don't taze my granny' American police accused of using a Taser on an 86-year-old, bed-ridden grand

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Mail Online

'Don't taze my granny!' American police accused of using a Taser on an 86-year-old, bed-ridden grandmother
By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 6:35 PM on 26th June 2010

American police have been accused of tasering an 86-year-old bed-ridden grandmother.

Lonnie Tinsley called the emergency services to his home in El Reno, Oklahoma, when he became concerned that his grandma Lona Vernon had failed to take her medication. But instead of a medical technician, he claims at least a dozen armed police officers answered his call.

Her alarmed garndson, is then said to have replied: 'Don't taze my granny!'

According to a lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court, Tinsley’s 'obstructive' behaviour prompted the police to threaten him with their tasers. He was then was assaulted, removed from the room, thrown to the floor, handcuffed, and detained in a police car. At this point, the heroes in blue turned their attention to Lona.

According to officer Duran’s official report, Mrs Vernon had taken an 'aggressive posture' in her hospital bed.



Read more: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1289780/Dont-taze-granny-American-police-accused-using-Taser-86-year-old-bed-ridden-grandmother.html

[SunnySong]

1. or heroic cops prevent elderly suicide... I guess it depends on the headline writer. nt

[raouldukelives]

3. or "Heroic cop saves 11 officers from knife wielding maniac"

[madmom]

2. We've already had a discussion about that, here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8638650&mesg_id=8638650

[OrderedChaos]

4. that is true

but, that thread has devolved into a pissing match, and I don't think anyone would get anything, other than upset, reading it.

[davidinalameda]

7. and this is a link to a real news site

[boppers]

13. Remote, UK, media is more "real" than the local media?

Are you missing a sarcasm icon?

[davidinalameda]

15. the other sources I've seen for this story are blogs and such

no news outlets

[boppers]

16. The upthread link had the largest newspaper in the city, and the largest newspaper in the state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oklahoman

Maybe you were referring to other threads.

[davidinalameda]

24. I am

:hi:

[Politicub]

5. This chills me to the bone

How can anyone do that to an 86 year old bed ridden women? The cops who perpetrated this should be tazed until they pass out. And then tazed again after they wake up.

[SkyDaddy7]

6. 'aggressive posture' in her hospital bed.

OK, cops have to be having some kind of contest to see who can use their "tazzer toys" in the most ridiculous uncalled for situation...After all they know for a fact they will never get in trouble for using tazzers because according to the cops, the Tazzer Co. & of course FOX "News" tazzers are harmless!

I would have gotten shot because I would have done everything in my power to inflict bodily harm to any one of those THUGS I could have if that was my Grandmother! And I am not a violent person at all but when it comes to toruturing any elderly person especially my own Grandmother in my home or hers my primative instincts would have taken over!

These are not "Peace Officers" or "Police" not even your run of the mill asshole "cop" these are sick fucking THUGS!

I bet the police investigation said the THUGS did no wrong.


Does anyone have more info on this story?

[provis99]

8. Tasers are supposed to be an alternative to shooting someone to death.;

Does an 86 year old granny merit shooting her to death?

[Captain Boomerang]

9. Tasers are weapons

From June 2001 and June 2007, at least 245 cases of deaths of subjects soon after having been shocked using Tasers.
http://www.mahalo.com/answers/how-many-people-die-from-tasers

Tasers should have been outlawed after the first death occurred.

It's illegal to use a cattle prod to control people. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-160249603.html So it should not be legal for a cop to carry a "portable cattle prod" for submission, control, or defense purposes.

[Fastcars]

10. I Enjoy Bashing Cops As Much As Anyone....

But this case isn't a clear cut case. It sounds like there was reason to believe that the lady was deranged and willing to harm herself and others. I don't know that someone would have been able to prevent either from happening without the use of the taser. This isn't a case of a cop using a taser as a punishment device on someone that pissed him off. The taser may have honestly been the best option to prevent a very serious injury to granny or the cops.

[emilyg]

11. Thanks for some common sense.

[boppers]

14. More perspective (from the other thread)

'Duran reported Varner had looked him in the eyes after he arrived at the apartment and said to him, "If you try and get the knife I will stab you and kill you. I killed four Japs in World War II and I would not bat an eye killing you."
Duran also reported, Varner talked of killing police again after being taken to Parkview Hospital in El Reno. "Varner told me she was going to kill every officer that was in her apartment when she got out. Varner told me she was going to snap my neck like a twig just like she did during World War II."
Varner's attorney, Dell, said both Varner and the grandson said she told police to leave her apartment but they deny she threatened to kill officers. They also denied that she talked in the apartment of killing Japanese.
The grandson "said she didn't say anything like that at all at the apartment," the attorney said.
The grandson recalled she did say things at the hospital about having killed Japanese but "there was never any threats to the cops," the attorney said.'

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-granny-gets-shocked-by-taser-sues-el-reno-police/article/3471297?custom_click=masthead_topten

[The Magistrate]

17. Perspective, Sir, Establishing the Officer Is Not Only a Coward But A Fool

That on the courteous assumption he is not simply making up this swill as he goes along, in full consciousness of how badly he screwed up, and desperate hopes of self-justification.

In either instance, not one officer in that room is fit to be on any police force.

[boppers]

18. I think it's a matter of training in dealing with the elderly.

I have absolutely no doubt that the multiple, conflicting, stories could be true, one real tragedy highlighted by this is the problem our society has when dealing with the mentally ill, especially the elderly undergoing profound mental changes.

[The Magistrate]

20. Put Bluntly, Sir

A man who presents himself as seriously threatened by an old woman in a bed with a knife in her hand is a coward or a liar or both. No amount of training can fix these sorts of character flaws.

Dismissal in disgrace from the police force, references bad enough to prevent legal employment for seven or eight years, are the appropriate remedy for every police officer in that room. That this will not happen is a very serious problem, emblematic of everything wrong with policing in our country.

Police behave badly for the same reason poorly raised children do; there are no consequences for their mis-behavior, and they know there will be none.

[boppers]

21. You do not think a deranged, suicidal, person with a kitchen knife can be a threat?

Is that because she's a woman? Old? In a bed?

Having dealt with a few violent elderly patients suffering from dementia, I can assure you otherwise.

[The Magistrate]

23. Good Luck Trying To Convince Anyone Who Has Punched Out An Adult Male Or Two Of That, Sir

[boppers]

25. Some background reading:

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118916529/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Alzheimers/6-06-27-ViolenceByDementia.htm

In some ways, an average adult male is less dangerous, because they usually have a greater degree of rationality and impulse control.

[The Magistrate]

26. Show Me the Damage, Sir, Inflicted On Trained Men Practiced In Violence

The intent, even the attempt, is one thing; success at the endeavor is quite another.

You are maintaining that ten police officers not only honestly felt themselves at such threat from a bed-ridden old woman, but actually were seriously menaced and endangered by her, to the point where they had no choice but to employ pain compliance measures of potentially lethal nature, and that is not a position anyone can take seriously.

The fact is the officers displayed cowardice and incompetence, behaved as bullies, and are now lying through their teeth in describing the matter.

[boppers]

27. Ask a Police Officer (Trained Men Practiced In Violence) what the response is to a suspect...

..brandishing a knife, and threatening officers with it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=police+kill++weilding+knife

[The Magistrate]

28. Specify, Sir, Subject Is A Bed-Ridden Woman In Her Eighties, Before You Do It

And by all mean, continue to display the depth of inanity and worship of bullying power you have provided so far in this exchange....

Every police officer in that room should be broken from the force for cowardice, arrested and tried for felony assault and mob action under color of law, and generally japed with till they understand just how wrong their behavior was.

[boppers]

29. FTA:

"She uses an oxygen machine to help her breathing and can barely walk by herself."

How is "Bed Ridden" being defined?

"bed·rid·den (bdrdn) also bed·rid (-rd)
adj.
Confined to bed because of illness or infirmity."

She can walk by herself, according to the article.

[The Magistrate]

30. Fine, Sir: The Officer Were In Deadly Peril; Thank God They Got The Old Biddy First!!!

We could have had ten of El Reno's finest gutted like lambs in a Greek grocery, reduced to chunks of flesh afloat on a sea of blood, at the hands of ninja grandma....

[cstanleytech]

32. Welll I dont know about this lady however my mother can walk to.......

about 2 to 3 feet with help or she will fall (which she has done multiple times) otherwise we have to put her in her wheelchair so I personally consider my mother bedridden.

[earcandle]

22. These guys are trained to kill, or do serious violence. We need them off the streets.

[superconnected]

33. 86 yo granny took an "Agreesive posture in her hospital bed". WTF. Then they should leave the damn

house if they're afraid of the 86yo bedridden woman. WTF...

[Prometheus Bound]

19. "prevent a very serious injury to...the cops"?

He, he, good one.

[fascisthunter]

12. sick

[cstanleytech]

31. Speaking as an adult taking care of his elderly mother

I speak from experience when I say they were (imo atleast) idiots in their handling of this situation, first by attempting to cutoff her oxygen which is a major no-no and 2nd by tasering her regardless of what she may or may have not been doing if she was unable to get out of her bed.
Now that aside I'm not saying they should be fired, at most a suspension with a requirement to take some courses perhaps in how to deal with such future situations as for the lawsuit imo they should offer to give the mother and her son a total of not less than 1 dollar to not more than 10,000 for their trouble.

[TheMadMonk]

34. Not trying to defend the cops on this one. Just noting a couple of things.

The earlier mentions I saw of this story were very deliberately couched in terms intended to present the cops in the worst possible light. This is not to say that there IS any way to prettify this story, just an observation that people went out of their way to make it seem even worse than it was.

The same people demand that cops be experts in managing anyone and everyone, all too often when at their very worst: from a linebacker suffering a full psychotic break; to some daddy's little princess throwing a pissy fit; the diabetic with too much or too little insulin in their system; the overdose who's just been brought back to life with narcan; the drunken brawler with the screwdriver in their eyesocket who wants to remove it themself; AND of course the little old lady waving a knife.

One thing most cops will be fully aware of is the parchemnt skin of the elderly. A tackle forceful enough to guarantee control of the knife, stands a very good chance of degloving a considerable portion of her arm, breaking bones or both.

And whether we like it or not, recent events and their outcomes can and will cloud even the best copper's judgement at times causing them to overreact later.

Neither excuses the use of a Taser in this situation, but either might explain why a cop might mistakenly chose to use one without resorting to his being a pig cunt arsehole who gets his jollies sticking the volts to little old ladies with an "attitude problem".

[The Magistrate]

35. The First Report, Sir, was Of The Filing Of A Lawsuit

Naturally, this presented the plaintiff's position.

But it remains that the circumstance on its face is sufficient to condemn.

No real defense is possible.

[TheMadMonk]

36. I am not referring to the defence's filing. I'm referring to the way DU posters...

...slanted their posts on this matter.


And given appropriately horrific circumstances leading up to this encounter I could raise a defence for the officers concerned.

All it would take is a recent suicide in that copper's presence which he might have prevented with the use of a taser; or a hypoglycemic diabetic decking him or a partner a walking stick.

Odds actually are that it's most likely down to pisspoor training and/or a bit of a cowboy attitude; but it could also be a seargant who promises to kick the arse of any officer for a full circuit of the squadroom, who fails to cover it in the field.

None of these are particularly good reasons for tasering an 86 year old invalid, but some are at least understandable, and they aren't predicated on one or more cops being dirtier than an Essex girl.

[The Magistrate]

37. Your Are Reaching So far, Sir, As To Tip Over Into Absurdity....

No one alleges the officers are corrupt, the general meaning of 'dirty' applied to police. People are stating, correctly, that these officers are cowardly and incompetent bullies, unfit to serve on any police force, and stating further the likelihood that they are lying in their descriptions of the 'provocation' they were offered, in an attempt to cover over the evident fact of their cowardice and bullying incompetence.

[TheMadMonk]

39. Not really. Hypo & hyper glycemic diabetics are common enough...

...encounters for the police. As are hard arse seargants who get heavy on their men coming back from patrol or a call with a shiner or limp. And if witnessing a suicide is less than common, having to deal with the aftermath most certainly is not. Druggies mad as hell, because being brought back to life with narcan cost them their high. They do get to watch as coroners collect bits of stupid motorcyclists with a shovel and doggy bag, and the fireies wash the rest down the stormwater drains with their hoses. They get to see the worst post partum psychosis can do to a family and the handiwork of jealous/posessive partners who don't know how to let go.

Cops have the job of dealing with people and situations at their very worst, day in and day out.

There might not be any good reasons for tasering an old lady, but too much stress and a momentary snap can easily add up to a bad reason that should not spell the end of an otherwise good cop's career. And a far better (and more likely) reason to cover someone's arse, than "the entire squad is a bunch of spineless bullies".

You might also note, that what you might term 'spineless behaviour' IS drummed into coppers at every turn now. It's drummed into everyone. Coppers, firefighters, paramedics, nurses, doctors, first aiders: The mantra is: "Your own safety comes first." It must and does affect the way people do things.

None of this makes less than ideal police behaviour right or acceptable. However, it might explain how the wrong things happen for what SEEM like the right reasons without resorting to "All coppers are cunts".


AND YES! There are plenty of people here on DU who do their damndest to paint ANY incident involving cops in the worst possible light for the cops. Some of who are shallow enough to even try to take the fight into "good cop" stories.


Corrupt, stupid and power mad cops are a major problem, you will never catch me denying this. Overuse of tasers is a major problem. Painting any event that doesn't lie Saintly North of Dudley Doright as part and parcel of EVERYTHING wrong with policing is ALSO A BLOODY MAJOR PROBLEM.

Cowboy policing and a bad read of a 911 call, is quite probably the most likely reason for what happened here, but it COULD have been a poorly trained rookie operating in blind panic mode: See KNIFE!!! Fire. And thank heavens he was waving his taser not his gun. OR an ordinary copper with one too many horror scenes under his belt, briefly losing the plot at exactly the wrong moment.

And sometimes the stupider the reason, the more subsequent events look like a kitten covering up on a tile floor. Questions get asked and blame gets splashed around. The more of this that can be dumped on the victim the better, but even a muddying of the waters will do to raise "reasonable doubt" with a good defence. Not exactly nice. But not rampant corruption either. Just the basic venal grubbiness that taints pretty much every single one of us.

[Scairp]

38. Then I'll say it

They should all be shitcanned, pronto. You do not deal with an old woman, in her hospital bed, who seems to be suffering from dementia and saying crazy things in this manner. She needed medical attention not a full on law enforcement response. This was not handled properly at all and they should not have a badge giving them carte blanche to carry deadly weapons that they use to torture old people and children. BTW, this same department is under investigation for tasing a man who had had a car accident and was suffering from diabetic shock. They are just plain stupid and the entire department should be fired and El Reno should start all over again with cops who aren't mental defectives like this these yokels. That is, if they can find any that fit the bill in the entire state of Oklahoma.