Indian workers to get exemption from social security payments

[ChromeFoundry]

Source: The Economic Times of India

12 Jul 2010, 0037 hrs IST,PTI

NEW DELHI: Indian professionals working in the US, Australia, Canada and Japan may soon be exempted from paying social security contribution in those countries if they make such payments in India.

The benefit will be available under social security pacts that the Government is negotiating with these countries. The agreement will also ensure orderly migration of workforce to and fro and provide for cooperation in areas of labour market expansion.

Overseas Indian Affairs Minister Vayalar Ravi said his Ministry has already concluded negotiations with Canada for signing a social security agreement and talks are progressing with Japan, Australia and the US for similar pacts.

"We have already concluded negotiations with Canada while talks are at advanced stage with Japan and Australia. We are also trying to firm up such a pact with the US and the negotiations are progressing," Ravi said in an interview.

According to estimates, there are nearly four million Indians in the four countries with 70 per cent of them working as professionals in various fields, including IT.

The move by the ministry came in view of the fact that expatriate workers often do not get any benefit from the social security contribution paid abroad on their return home on completion of term of contract because most countries do not allow transfer of social security benefits.

As per Indian Government's labour laws, all employees and employers falling under the purview of the Employees Provident Fund Act, 1952 are required to make mandatory contribution towards provident fund. A mandatory contribution fund is known by different names in different countries, such as social security in the US.



Read more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/services/travel/visa-power/Indian-workers-to-get-exemption-from-social-security-payments/articleshow/6154917.cms

[Skittles]

1. "professionals"

don't even get me started

[virgogal]

5. + 1

[musette_sf]

6. + 1 me too

[Skittles]

7. I cannot even get them to answer the phone with the company name

they answer, "HELLOOOOO?" :mad:

[Divine Discontent]

29. LOLOLOL... oh, but do... I need a good laugh tonite! n/t

[Angry Dragon]

2. It is time to get all Americans jobs

before letting in foreign professionals

[dipsydoodle]

3. Well in the UK

it would be NH payments both by the employees and the employers. As far as I'm aware there are no such exemptions as mentioned in the OP. In return such employees are covered by our NHS - think so anyway.

[harmonicon]

14. yes, and no one even has to pay into the NHS to be covered

I've paid some tax in the UK, but not much - I'm here as a student and live on a cost-of-living bursary. As far as I'm concerned, this agreement for social security payments is backwards. I think people should pay into the system where they are living and working, not based on some arbitrary thing that the person has no control over such as where they were born. Other countries should operate more like the UK in this respect; if you live in the country, you should be entitled to be treated with the same amount of dignity and respect as anyone else living there, no matter where they were born or how long they've been a resident.

[JDPriestly]

23. I worked in the UK. We also lived on the economies of

France, Germany and Austria. In every country, we had to pay into the local Social Security funds. We got part of our contribution back, but we always had to pay in.

There is no excuse for this kind of sideswiping of the American workers.

[pattmarty]

4. End the H1B visas now and put our people to work. This bullshit..........

............was designed for "full employment" times and was never intended to be a fucking employer pool of low paid employees.

[AzDar]

10. +1

:thumbsup:

[bluesbassman]

13. In my line of work I see the paystubs of a lot of H1B workers,

and let me tell you they are certainly not low paid in the Bay Area. Perhaps it's different in other parts of the country.

[pattmarty]

15. I'd be willing to bet that they are paid less than a citizen with the same credentials.

[bluesbassman]

20. Possibly, but my client base is largely IT, software, and engineering.

The H1B vs citizen ratio is about even and the pay is too. Most of the people I deal with are in the $70K and up range. I find it hard to believe that qualified citizens will not work for that scale even in this high priced region.

I think it may have more to do with management's belief that these H1B workers are better trained or harder working. Not saying that I believe that, just that there has to be more to it than working for reduced pay.

[jmowreader]

30. That's part of it, a very small part

The real attraction of H1B workers: They won't quit and leave you in a lurch if you screwed them, or do anything to piss you off. An H1B visa is attached to the company that brought the worker in, not the worker. If he quits or you fire him, he goes back to India--and he knows it. Hence, you get a nice, docile, subservient worker you can royally screw with no repercussions.

Try telling an American he has to work 14 hours a day, 7 days a week until the end of the year (and it's February today) if he expects to keep his job, and it's highly unlikely he's going to stay. An Indian H1B would be there fourteen hours a fucking day, seven days a week.

[droidamus2]

31. Don't count on it

I had a job that allowed me to see what these people are being offered and I can tell you they don't come cheap. As high as 'US' workers maybe not but damn close if they aren't.

[OhioChick]

21. Agreed. With unemployment as high as it is, we don't need visa workers. n/t

[stray cat]

25. Educate our people so they are as good in the math and sciences and maybe we could

As it is many of our students don't measure up to the best in India. Americans have to learn math and science and beat out the best in other countries if they want to compete.

[OhioChick]

27. We are graduating exceptional math and science students here...

It's all about cheap labor. You already knew that, though.

There is no shortage of American citizens with advanced science degrees.

http://www.miller-mccune.com/science/the-real-science-gap-16191/

[droidamus2]

32. Bull!

It has nothing to do with 'skills' or knowledge there are many older workers (me being one) in this country that with a little refresher training (I was out of the business for a while so my skill set is not up to date) would be able to do these jobs. I would even be willing to come in at a pay grade below what my 15+ years experience with a degree would normally get me. There is a big rise in the IT business for part time workers and I think the H1B workers give employers the same benefits as part-timers but at full time. That benefit is that if they decide you are 'too much trouble' they can just send you packing. If they don't have to invest any time and money and training that makes it even easier. You can rest assured the companies bring these workers over here because it is to their, the companies, financial benefit.

[Skittles]

38. MAJOR BULL FUCKING SHIT

there is absolutely NO comparison and I WOULD KNOW

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. Lovely. Just lovely.

END H1-B NOW.

:grr:

[fascisthunter]

9. what a bunch of bullshit!

[Alcibiades]

11. Is this reciprocal?

Is there a visa program for US folks to go to India? If so, can we opt into their program and out of ours?

[northzax]

46. it would be reciprocal, yes

and there are certainly foreign worker visas in India. we have similar tax agreements with many countries. and frankly, it makes a lot of sense, in a mobile world, to pay your social benefits taxes (like FICA) in one place. if I spend time overseas, working for an American company even, why should I lose pace on my SocSec and Medicare timeline for five years while paying into a system I will never use?

[xchrom]

12. I'm with the others - end H1-b now! Nt

[bhikkhu]

43. The problem comes in specialized and volatile fields

...such as computer programming. Knowing people in the field, if they can't attract programmers to the US they fold up and move overseas. The whole Silicon Valley boom of the late 90's was driven by the H1-b program. It would have happened somewhere else if visas weren't available, and one of the big drains on the US economy through the 00's was the flight of US trained talent back to China and India. I'd rather have them live and work here, and the OP is about a niggling small fix to an unfair detail of foreign residency.

If I was excluded from the benefits of a system I wouldn't wan't to pay in either.

[Hydra]

45. Programmer out of work here

The idea that they can't get it here is ludicrous.

[Joanne98]

16. ^%$#@

[Ian David]

17. I would rather have 100 undocumented workers in my city than outsource one job overseas.

Outsourcing takes away the jobs that Americans DO want.

[Zavulon]

18. Given those two choices,

I'd rather see that one job outsourced. I'm unemployed and illegal aliens (or, as you choose to euphemistically call them, "undocumented workers") have plenty of jobs in my area which I'd be glad to take. The idea that they only take jobs the rest of us don't want is absurd.

[pscot]

19. Who speaks for us

n/t

[JDPriestly]

This is not fair. This makes it a lot cheaper for employers to hire

Indian workers. What is Obama thinking?

This is Hillary Clinton's nutty little scheme. And the Republicans would do no better.

What about training and hiring Americans to do the work in America? Isn't that a novel idea?

Next thing you know, we'll have a president who is from India. Oh, no, please, not Bobby Jindal. He is worse than Bush.

[JDPriestly]

22. This is not fair. This makes it a lot cheaper for employers to hire

Indian workers. What is Obama thinking?

This is Hillary Clinton's nutty little scheme. And the Republicans would do no better.

What about training and hiring Americans to do the work in America? Isn't that a novel idea?

Next thing you know, we'll have a president who is from India. Oh, no, please, not Bobby Jindal. He is worse than Bush.

[stray cat]

24. Why should they have to pay social security in both countries.

[mbperrin]

26. Why shouldn't they pay in the country they live in?

just askin'

[bluesbassman]

40. Because it's part of our pay structure.

Cost of doing business if you will. Allowing them to circumvent our system really benefits the employers and encourages those employers to hire more H1B workers. If they don't want to pay twice, go home and get a job there and only pay once.

[bemildred]

28. Let's "exempt" them from taking jobs here from US citizens too. nt

[LostinVA]

34. +1

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

33. The US has social security agreements with 24 other countries

Naturally if we hit the 2008 DU archives we will find incredulous posts about our new Social Security agreement with Denmark!

Fucking vikings taking our jobs!

[williesgirl]

35. Yet one more reason to cancel all these visas. We need every job paying into SS to make it work.

No more favoritism for foreign workers - PUT U.S. CITIZENS TO WORK FIRST. Rec'd

[alp227]

36. Social security is in danger. DANGER!

If the undocumented workers also contribute to the SS Fund, so should foreign workers.

[Shining Jack]

37. I have nothing against immigration...

Outsourcing is pissing me off.But this is over the top ! "exempted from paying social security contribution in those countries".

[Swagman]

39. how about equal pay as well ?..this is just cheap labour. Can't blame

the Indians etc for taking the work but 'globalisation'..another corporate scam.

[L0oniX]

41. Yes ...while trying to screw the elderly out of their SS, let's let the foreign worker off the hook.

Thanks for nothing!

[LibDemAlways]

42. Husband is an unemployed computer software guy - laid off in

January. He attended a job fair for "computer professionals" in San Jose in May. He drove 350 miles up from LA to get there. He encountered busloads - literally - of H1B VISA holders from India looking for their next gig.

When he got home that night - drove the 350 miles back so as not to pay for a hotel - he wrote letters to Sens. Feinstein and Boxer asking why the hell these people are even here at a time of over 12% unemployment in this state. Feinstein didn't even bother to respond. Boxer's office just quoted the letter of the law. Totally useless.

More evidence that politicians don't give a shit about the ordinary American. It's all about finding ways for businesses to increase their profits no matter how many Americans are hurting.

[Lasher]

44. India Times came up with a similar story in January.

January discussion thread here

What we're talking about is called a totalization agreement. India keeps pushing this because it would be good for India. But it would be bad for the US.

As I said back in January, the US has totalization agreements with 24 other countries. There are reasons to conclude, however, that such an arrangement with India would not be as advantageous for the US as are these 24.

Economies in all these nations are more prosperous than that of India. I will use per capita GDP as a rule of thumb for comparison. Of these 24, all are ranked at 56 and above out of 181 nations listed by the International Monetary Fund. The US is 6. India is 130.

And unlike these 24 nations, India does not have a social security system that is comparable to that in the US. There is therefore little potential for parity in a totalization agreement between the US and India.

U.S. International Social Security Agreements

[cosmicone]

47. Red meat post ....

A. Several countries already had similar treaties with the US. India is a newcomer. e.g. Pakistani nationals never paid social security in the US since 1964 and so didn't nationals of some 83 countries.

B. I can completely understand the anger and anguish of laid off workers but making it appear as though Indians are solely to blame for their unemployment is far fetched. At any given time, there are about 600,000 H1B workers in the US of which about 450K are Indians. In an industry that has >15 million jobs, the percentage of Indian H1B workers is about 3% at best.

C. Indians don't suddenly get beamed up in the US by Scotty .. they are employed by corporations. Blaming India and Indians is manifestly and indubitably xenophobic. Cleverly making it appear as though Indians are somehow evading taxes or don't want to pay taxes is not only unfair but is also untrue.

However, such red meat posts are a frequent occurrence on DU and it gives DU a free-republic quality. However, I guess one has to deal with the bad with the good things that DU represents.

[MARALE]

48. I was working with a software engineer from India

He was doing his taxes on his computer beside me. I glanced at his gross income - it was $24000. There is no way a software engineer here would work for that low amount anywhere! There may be some places where they may be getting a decent wage, but on the east coast, he was living at poverty level. I am sure that there are a lot that we were working with that made that small amount. You can not tell me that the company that hired him was saving a lot of money!