Iraq inquiry: Government ‘intentionally and substantially’ exaggerated WMD threat

[sabra]

Source: UK telegraph

Tony Blair’s government ‘intentionally and substantially’ exaggerated the threat from Saddam Hussein ahead of the war in Iraq, a former senior British diplomat has claimed.

Carne Ross, who was First Secretary responsible for the Middle East at the United Nations, accused the former government of issuing “lies” to the public about the dictator’s capacity to launch weapons of mass destruction.

He said that it was a "disgrace" that ministers failed to exhaust all peaceful options before going to war against Iraq.

"There was no deliberate discussion of available alternatives to military action in advance of the 2003 invasion," Mr Ross added.

"There is no record of that discussion, no official has referred to it, no minister has talked about it, and that seems to me to be a very egregious absence in this history - that at some point a Government before going to war should stop and ask itself, 'are there available alternatives?"'

Giving evidence before the Chilcot inquiry into the Iraq war, Mr Ross said that “nuanced” intelligence about the threat from Iraq was “massaged” into "more robust and terrifying" messages about Saddam’s supposed WMD.

Mr Carne, who served at the UN between 1997 and 2002, claimed that the British and United States governments were fully aware that there was no “substantial threat” from Iraq ahead of the war.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7885629/Iraq-inquiry-Government-intentionally-and-substantially-exaggerated-WMD-threat.html

[Mnemosyne]

1. Wow, how shocking. n/t

[happygoluckytoyou]

31. when i heard this news you coulda knocked me over with a spork

[Mnemosyne]

42. And of course this isn't the case with Iran, totally different...

Can we scream now?!:banghead::cry::banghead:

[defendandprotect]

44. Great point . . . but maybe the twist will be "we're protecting Israel"...???

[Mnemosyne]

47. You know they will, D&P. I will never understand why

Israel's nukes are basically ignored by most of the world. Insane world.

:hi:

[niceypoo]

41. My first reaction too...

"Wow, really? Who'd have thought?"

:rofl:

[Mnemosyne]

43. I am still in shock tonight..

:rofl::cry::banghead::cry::rofl:

And we know how quickly our *new* DOJ started investigating *, et al, from the last US regime.

Oh wait,...

[xchrom]

2. The old WMD defence is starting to hold

Water like a sieve.

[Soylent Brice]

3. K&R

[bongbong]

4. Q: Will Fox News report it?

A: Do colorful unicorns frolic in pastel fields, dropping candy turds behind them?

Q2: Will the MSM report it?
A2: See Answer 1.

Q3: Will the NYT or WaPo report it?
A3: See Answer 1.

[sabra]

7. there's been some pretty big revelations over the course of this inquiry

not one of them has hit the US MSM

[defendandprotect]

45. Not Schultz, Olbermann, nor Maddow . . . ??? Do you remember any of them?

Did the long know Downing Street Memos play any role, for instance?

And did they cover the pre-pressure from Bush?

[L0oniX]

5. DUH!

[Stuart G]

6. K and R

[barbtries]

8. when do we get our inquiry?

and when do we throw the lying murderous bastards into prison??!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

33. I am wondering too!

[katandmoon]

40. Certainly not as long as Obama's DOJ is in the mix

[704wipes]

50. yeah, that investigation is off the table

as are most others....

[defendandprotect]

46. +1000% . . . .

[deacon_sephiroth]

69. when we grow our balls back?

not in our life times :(

[penndragon69]

9. Well, at least England has a democratic system of GOVT.

[defendandprotect]

48. Parliamentary . . . someone from Canada was just commenting on how that helped them...

overcome the right wing on the economy -- and in fact kept them from

having as much rules/regs overturned by right --

if I heard that correctly tonight on Schultz?

[wordpix]

54. it might help US to have a senate that operates on majority rule instead of

one a-hole being able to hold up the whole works.

[defendandprotect]

56. That's pretty obvious, isn't it -- ??? Presumably only to us . . . !!!

In fact, someone was suggesting that Dems filbuster on the unemployment

extensions to read NEW DEAL and HUMAN RIGHTS material --

right to a good job, decent housing, medical care, sufficient food/clothing --

Yes -- I'd love to see that -- we need a return to the FDR thinking --

and to re-establish the New Deal --

i.e., reign in the crooks/robber barons!!

It was the journalist from the Nation -- can't think of her name at moment --

[jotsy]

57. Katrina van den Heuvel?

[defendandprotect]

62. Yes . . . thank you!!

[no limit]

10. In related breaking news: water is in fact wet

[bjobotts]

58. I shot to death Bush, Cheney& Rumsfeld 2days ago.But let's just look forward not backward ok

[bjobotts]

59. Let's just forget abut all the horror they did...it's in the past.Can't change the past

[obxhead]

11. Wow, that's exactly what I said before the invasion. nt

[HawkerHurricane]

30. You, me...

the CIA, the DIA, the U.N. weapon inspectors, and pretty much every credible source.

[cyr330]

12. Exaggerated?

NOOOO!! They told fucking LIES!!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. "We may only have 45 minutes!!!"

[sakabatou]

14. Calling Captain Obvious...

[paparush]

15. "Substantially exaggerated" is like saying the Titanic

became "increasingly moist" after striking the iceberg.

And just who's going to get punished for these intentional and substantial exaggerations?

[harmonicon]

61. hahaha!!! "increasingly moist"; fucking love it. nt

[Enthusiast]

66. "increasingly moist"

:rofl:

[paparush]

78. I wish that were mine, but I think its Matt Taibi's line.

[JDPriestly]

16. How many innocent Iraqis and soldiers ignorant of the lie died?

And the inquiry calls it a "disgrace." I would use a stronger word. How about "crime"?

I would call the negligent or intentional misrepresentations a "crime." And those who participated in that crime should be brought to answer, tried, for their crimes.

[KeepItReal]

17. Dear UK, Feel free to borrow "You Lie!" in reference to Tony's justifications

You're welcome.

[Uncle Joe]

18. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, sabra.

[The_Casual_Observer]

19. Jingoism, mass hysteria, & most importantly the opportunity to control Iraqi oil

As was admitted in the Vanity Fair article years ago, the WMD was the most convenient & compelling excuse that they could conjure up. Since, by the time
it was all sorted out, we'd have achieved the goal of imperial occupation regardless.

[mwb970]

20. It was so obvious, even at the time.

Duh!

[Bragi]

21. It's important that this stuff be said authoritatively

We can yuck it up all we want about how they're stating the obvious, but in all seriousness, it matters that people of this sort are finally speaking out about what happened.

If nothing else, "official" testimony of this sort makes it more likely that Tony Blair will eventually have to account for his decision to knowingly lie to justify a reckless and illegal invasion.

Sucks to be him, as it should.

[Grinchie]

22. It's sad when the Iraqi War Fraud is still being investigated in the UK and not here.

Impeachment is off the table! Damnit!

[Diclotican]

27. Grinchie

Grinchie

The british have not taken impachemnt of the table.. And even tho Blair are not primeminister longer, he could even now face criminal sharges if that would be the outcome if it all. And the british parlament have somtimes had the ugly habit of hanging their own if they sqrew to mutch up.. And Im sad to say.. Tony Blair sqreved up big time in the startup to the invation..


Not that it was something that suprice me.. Even tho im not the spartest man in the world - rather the opposite even I understod that the whole 45 min claim was hogwash big time. And as the time goes by, the evidence about how big a lie it all was, is mounting to the sice of Mont Oplympus at Mars (who are 27km high and 600km in diameter)

Diclotican

[Diclotican]

23. sabra

sabra

Did they?.. Every person, with half a brain, could understand that the british government, under Toni Blair was lying all what they managed to get their hand on.. Everyone with some suspection about things, UNDERSTAND that they was lying as hell.. Even in the start up to the war, most who was against the war, doubted the evidence as it presented itself. And in the upmarsh to the var, it was a hard, and long discussing on so many boards, if the evidence Toni Blair presented to give UK a green light to go to war was right or not

I was against the war, and I doubted the evidence as it was presented. And was clubed down by the "pro" guys on the board.. And I got it right, becouse here comes the evidence, to prove withouth doubt that the whole cherade was a band of one lie on top of the others..

Saddam Hussain, ano 2003 was no danger, not for the nabourhood, not for the great powers of UK and USA.. 9 year after, country like Iran is in a far better potition for the future than it was before Saddam Hussin was toupled.. The chaos that is Iraq today, is as we speak costing US, a lot of money who would be better spendt elswhere.. And it is more than just posible, that in the end a large part of Iraq, could unite with Iran, becouse of religious and other bonds there is.. And in the end, maybe USA want a new powerfull leader to rule Iraq, a general, who have a powerbase, and the guts to get where even saddam had some doubts (and he was ruteless as few):. I would not dubt if Iraq was to destabilize more than i have been doing, the US would give most of the power, to a iraqi general, who would be given enough powerbase, military speaking, to squash the opponents, and even crush the kurds, who have been some of a noiance even for US lately.. They want a independed kurdish state in the north - and is using some of the metodes, to squash arabic iraqis our of their territory - even want to have some city's who had been arabic for more than thousand year - but who is on top of lot of oil..

This is eveidence, that should give the british some leverage, to if posible get toni blair to court, and maybe even a arrest, conviction, and incarceration.. That would at least give UK some way out of it all...

How sad this lying by Tony Blair really as. Up to the iraqi war, I liked mr Blair, becosue he was "the new face of britain: and also looked as a decent human beeing... But that man was falling greatly after this show was on the road...

Yes, I know, Saddam Hussain WAS a devil in human form, a devil for his own peopole, and a devil for specially Iran, who lost a lot of iranians, when Iraq was attacing Iran in 1980, and was suported by the US, as an allied and given far more tecnology, that is in germ warfare from US/UK/France/Germany and a few others, than most of us would ever know.. And I doubt that most is crying for the demise of Saddam Hussain either - not at least his victims.. But what would happend, when Iraq finaly would get their feet on the ground?. Would Iraq, be a model democracy in the end in the middle east - even surpass Israel. Or would it be a new dictator, a tyran who is friendly to the West, but a devil to his own people.. LIke saddam hussain was? Iraq have after all, verry few experiences with democracy - even the current experience is rather painfull, and even after so many years, I somehow doubt that Iraq for the seabare future is an democracy in the making.. Maybe a decade from now? Somehow I doubt it, Iraq have never had democracy, as we know it.. Allways from the earlies of times, been ruled by strong leaders, tyrants if you want it.. And it is in Iraq, our past is best known.. It was in the citys of UR and Babylon, the ancients discovered the art of writing, and a lot of our basics is from this area of the world... How mutch of the past is destroyed now?:.

But if they wanted to get rid of the bastard, they could at least do it withouth destroying the whole country, and waste a colden posibility to REALLY make a shange in the middle east.. Now it ia more than posible Iraq would be the next Iran - right after the Iranian revolution in 1979 in a few years time.. And if you think the iranian revolution was bad (i know many know that time far better than I know) was bad.. Double it, or triple it when it came to the consequenses of an Iraqi revolution.. Iraq is one of the bigger nations in the middle east - and I somehow doubt that US want to be trown out of the country - and never got the oil becouse of a revolution. Off course, evently the oil wil be open for busiess, but that would first be after the old regime was destroyed, and Iraq would posible goe true some of the same cases as Iran did after 1979..

Diclotican

[tiny elvis]

72. tony blair disillusioned me more than any american politician

your accent is charming, Diclotican

[Botany]

24. aka "they" lied to start an unneeded war

n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Turn that page! Look forward, not backward!

Nothing to see here, no war crimes, no torture.

[Jefferson23]

26. I am thrilled they are having an inquiry, From the OP:

"There was no deliberate discussion of available alternatives to military..."


That is an understatement but even so, IT HAD TO BE SAID!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

28. Quelle surprise!

I'm sure that wouldn't happen here though...

[CONN]

38. +1

[ooglymoogly]

29. I wish this were old news both here and in England; so I could say..Um...Hello, Yesterday's News?

Sabra is canceling her subscription to Yesterday's News.Yeah, sorry, she's taking her business to Significant Events in History.

Sorry Sabra couldn't resist. Good post and I really do get the significance, very relevant info; Just should have happened much sooner and also should have happened here. Funny bone got the best of me .

[Hubert Flottz]

32. The neoCONs only conned the fools.

We knew better. Karl Rove needed a "War President" to come close enough for Blackwell to steal a second election in 2004.

All those people dead and all that money spent so the GOP could "WIN"

[fascisthunter]

34. WRONG: They LIED.... and our government doesn't care

[conspirator]

35. File under no shit n/t

[Robeson]

36. No shit.

[indepat]

37. No shit, Sherlock.

:P

[Arctic Dave]

39. I will volunteer my time to be hangman after the trial and conviction

of the Blair and Bush war criminals.

[Javaman]

49. Wow, this and couple of bucks will get me a cup of coffee!

No one could have predicted that!

So now what? Oh yeah, no one in power cares.

[elias7]

51. Particularly headbanging is this paragraph:

Mr Carne, who served at the UN between 1997 and 2002, claimed that the British and United States governments were fully aware that there was no “substantial threat” from Iraq ahead of the war.

and this:

"At no point did we have any firm evidence, from intelligence sources or otherwise, of significant weapons holdings."

[Canuckistanian]

52. OMG, I'm having a heart attack here

From NOT being surprised.

[myrna minx]

53. K&R n/t

[wordpix]

55. although this has been obvious for years, at least the Brits are having an inquiry

can't say the same for the good ol' US

[Electric Monk]

64. +1

[Clyde39]

60. Where is the outrage?

Can you imagine the uproar if any Dem president had forced such a trick?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

63. Remember when we were shocked that Tony Blair got cozy with Dumbyass?

He seemed so sensible during the Clinton administration. Many of us couldn't believe he would side with the cowboy mentality...shoot first, ask questions later.

I can't help wondering if Shrub's bargaining chip was an offer to turn a blind eye toward BP's egregious safety record...

[Solly Mack]

65. The word is lied.

K&R

[Enthusiast]

67. We knew they were lying then.

When I watched the Sunday morning political programs it was perfectly obvious that those arguing in favor of invading Iraq were greatly exaggerating the threat.

[Alamuti Lotus]

68. So, should he keep his current position as Mideast Peace Envoy, or what?

:eyes:

[old mark]

70. OK, so when do the criminal proceedures against the war criminals start?

When can we expect to see the Bush II regime in court for all the people they killed for no reason?

mark

[CLANG]

71. Thank you, Mr. Ross. It would have helped to speak out sooner though...

[redqueen]

73. Um... duh. (nt)

[deutsey]

74. But at least there was a happy ending for Blair, Bush, Cheney, and all the criminals who

lied us into war. The get to continue living nice, cushy, consequence-free lives.

:evilfrown:

[Lorien]

75. Laws are only for us "small people". nt

[pauldp]

76. This is absolute conspiracy theory. This thread should be in the dungeon.

The British government would never intentionally lie to it's people to start a war for profit or to expand it's empire. That would be conspiracy to commit mass murder. That's crazy. Put this post in the dungeon where it belongs!

[AtheistCrusader]

77. Too late to chime in with a 'no shit'?

I see I am in good company.

Now, let's see an independent prosecutor in the US to investigate these claims.