Tourists in New Delhi (India's Capital City) Shot Amid Security Concerns

[Turborama]

Source: NYT

NEW DELHI – Two armed assailants riding a motorcycle opened fire on a tourist bus parked outside of New Delhi’s most famous mosque on Sunday in an attack that comes as the city prepares to host the Commonwealth Games in two weeks.

Two Taiwanese tourists were injured in the shooting, which occurred outside of the Jama Masjid at 11:30 a.m., police said. The two attackers indiscriminately fired seven or eight rounds into the bus before escaping on their motorcycle as a nearby police officer tried to give chase. A citywide manhunt was underway for the two attackers.

“It is difficult to say what the motive is,” Karnail Singh, the New Delhi joint police commissioner, told reporters.

The target of a tourist bus, as well as the timing of the attack, immediately raised questions about whether the shooting was a deliberate terror attack. Security is a paramount concern for the upcoming Commonwealth Games, which open on Oct. 3 and are expected to bring thousands of athletes and spectators to New Delhi for a sports competition among nations of the former British Empire.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/world/asia/20delhi.html?_r=1

[cosmicone]

1. Aid to Pakistan is being put to good use by the ISI.

Terrorist acts in India, Afghanistan, Europe or even the USA will never be curtailed as long as Pakistani military/ISI complex remain strong.

It is hight time the US stops being duped by Pakistani duplicity.

[ChromeFoundry]

15. Homegrown, Indian Mujahideen (IM), claimed responsibility

"A homegrown Indian Islamist group, the Indian Mujahideen, claimed responsibility Sunday for a gun attack on tourists in New Delhi and threatened the Commonwealth Games, Press Trust of India said."

Source: http://world.globaltimes.cn/asia-pacific/2010-09/575271.html

It looks as if this group is claiming responsibility, but the authorities believe that this group did not actually commit the attack.

[cosmicone]

17. "Indian Muhahideen" is a fake front for Lashkar-e-Tayyaba n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

21. they already debunked their claim...

Looks like that obscured, sketchy, dotted-gray-line to blaming this one on Pakistan, again, will have to wait until the authorities complete their questioning of more raincoat vendors.

[cosmicone]

22. In the end, it will be linked to Pakistan just hang in there!! n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

23. and if it's not... you'll find a way I'm sure!!!! n/t

[karynnj]

16. link, please?

Now, you would have a fit if someone made a conjecture that this was an anti-Moslem attack as it occurred outside a mosque.

Not all terrorism and violence in India comes from Pakistan, though too much of it does.

[cosmicone]

18. I won't have a fit at all ...

there are no non-Pakistan created terrorism in India. The so called maoists only attack military and police targets.

Any attack on foreigners just before commonwealth games is Pakistan's jealousy of how far India has come while leaving Pakistan in dust; economically, politically and militarily.

[ChromeFoundry]

36. what about Abhinav Bharat?

in response to your quote:

there are no non-Pakistan created terrorism in India.

Are you stating that this group is not a terrorist organization?
Or are you claiming that these are really Pakistani Muslims that deceived everyone in to thinking that they are a Hindu nationalist organization?

I think any definitive statement, such as yours, makes one ponder if fundamentalism is driving the statement(s). Just my 0.9166 Indian Rupees on this statement.

[Turborama]

20. They won't be able to post any because it's a warped conspiracy theory linking aid for the flood

victims with terrorism.

Plus, as was reported in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4545705&mesg_id=4545959">post #15, it looks like a "homegrown" terrorist attack.

BTW I saw John Kerry on an amazing BBC program earlier about world peace. I PM you a link to details about it later... :hi:

[OhioChick]

25. Just as another poster said on another thread...

Just like clockwork....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4531279#4532626

[Turborama]

30. LOL!

:rofl:

[cosmicone]

24. Here is your link...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/LeT-proxy-strikes-on-anniv-of-Batla-House-encounter/articleshow/6588164.cms

<snip>
While sources were wary of making a definitive conclusion, their estimate at this stage of investigation is strongly pointing to the role of IM (Indian Mujahideen) which was launched by the ISI with the specific objective of masking the role of ISI and Lashkar in the series of bombing attacks on urban centres in India.

The assessment is based on a number of factors; above all, the fact that the group chose the anniversary of Batla House to announce its return. The killing of Atif Amin had dealt a big blow to the group which unleashed a wave of terror attacks between 2007 and 2009, savaging Delhi, Ahmedabad, Jaipur Surat and Faizabad. According to investigating agencies, Amin was the chief bomber of the group.

</snip>

All terrorist attacks in India are instigated by Pakistan which is the world's No. 1 terrorist state.

[OhioChick]

27. "Times of India?"

No bias there....:eyes:

[cosmicone]

28. None. n/t

[Turborama]

29. Fail! "Aid to Pakistan is being put to good use by the ISI" deserves to be in the September 11 forum

Your link is pure speculation that proves nothing about foreign aid for the millions of flood victims in Pakistan being used for a terrorist attack in India.

[cosmicone]

31. Where did I mention flood aid?

I obviously meant the military/economic aid.

[Turborama]

33. Yeah, obviously. Seeing as you've been all over the Pakistan flood aid threads like a bad rash...

...it would be a real stretch of the imagination to think that's what you meant.

[cosmicone]

35. Perhaps, one shouldn't read more than what is actually in a post. n/t

[Turborama]

2. BBC: Tourists shot near Delhi mosque (Includes video report)

=snip=

The mosque's chief imam told AFP that one of the two attackers fired randomly from outside one of the main gates of the shrine.

"The two terrorists came on a motorcycle and the man riding pillion first fired randomly at the mosque and then fired in the air and at the people, and then he fired on the bus in which the tourists had come," he said.

"After emptying his gun, the terrorist replaced the magazine and began firing again," the imam said.

"The police today proved to be a failure. How can the police protect foreigners when they arrive?" he added.

More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11361549

Fortunately it sounds like there were no fatalities.

[Vehl]

4. hmnn

"The police today proved to be a failure. How can the police protect foreigners when they arrive?"

Its almost impossible to stop random attacks....by a lunatic...or a terrorist...or even a disgruntled employee, as these things are hard to foresee. Also, i doubt the firing took more than 10-20 seconds..at most. Unless there were policemen standing on/very near the exact location, I really don't think the Imam can blame the police.

As for protecting the tourists, I'm sure the commonwealth teams might have police escorts..but i doubt normal tourist buses do. in fact providing a police escort to a tourist bus would only make the tourists wary...and take all the fun away from their visit.

Also, tourists have been far safer in India than in most other tourist locations, so apart from this attack, I really do believe that the best way to defeat the intent of these terrorists is to have tourists continue to visit India. If people give way to fear, then the terrorists would have won already.

[Turborama]

9. It takes "15 to 20 seconds" to do this?

"The two terrorists came on a motorcycle and the man riding pillion first fired randomly at the mosque and then fired in the air and at the people, and then he fired on the bus in which the tourists had come," he said.

"After emptying his gun, the terrorist replaced the magazine and began firing again," the imam said.

Also, that article contains a lot more that just the one sentence from the Imam you picked up on, like this for example....

Earlier on Sunday, Australia said it would send a team to the Games despite a warning from a private firm of consultants over the threats posed by failings in the city's public transport network.

"Delhi is a densely populated city and the opportunity for a terrorist strike in the city's choking traffic and crowds is obvious," consultant Roger Henning told Australian News Limited newspapers.

[Vehl]

10. yes

It takes "15 to 20 seconds" to do this?

Yes.

It takes less than 4-5 seconds to empty a 40 round(extended, usually its 30) magazine.
Switching targets takes less than a second...but even if we were to give 2 seconds for that(which is a horribly long time), and that the shooter fired in bursts it still takes about 15-20 seconds to do this.(including the ~4-5 seconds for changing magazine)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVqAxG5_wY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hi20TI_jA&feature=related
check these videos

A very plausible way this attack could have happened is that the attackers drove into the target area, fired(while still on the motorbike) and sped away ( the raincoats they are supposed to have worn would have easily helped hide the gun during ingress as well as egress )

Also, that article contains a lot more that just the one sentence from the Imam you picked up on, like this for example....

Earlier on Sunday, Australia said it would send a team to the Games despite a warning from a private firm of consultants over the threats posed by failings in the city's public transport network.

"Delhi is a densely populated city and the opportunity for a terrorist strike in the city's choking traffic and crowds is obvious," consultant Roger Henning told Australian News Limited newspapers.

That goes without saying. I didn't reply to that post cos i agreed with that part.

[Turborama]

11. "Switching targets takes less than a second"

Depends on the distance between targets, obviously.

Also, your confident recounting of how this event must have unfolded sounds a lot like you've taken part in an operation like this yourself.

[Vehl]

12. well

Depends on the distance between targets, obviously.

With guns like the AK, its often not the aimed bullets that hit people, but its due to the volume being fired. These terrorists would point/target a bunch of people (i don't know what distances were involved, but if it was a crowded area as mentioned in the news reports then they might have been a hundred meters or less)and fire.

Also, your confident recounting of how this event must have unfolded sounds a lot like you've taken part in an operation like this yourself.

I grew up in a place mired in civil war for decades, so yes, I've seen similar stuff happen.Shootings, Bomb blasts, Ariel bombings...the whole enchilada.

Also on more than one occasion I barely escaped with my life.. when I was a small kid.I've also lost some relatives due to the civil war. Once when being shot at from a helicopter I thought I was a goner..,,but luckily survived. Maybe a 6 year old was too hard to spot from the air when lying face down amongst tall grass. Seeing red hot tracers land a few feet from one's face is something that is impossible to forget.


PS: however, my guess as to how this attack might have happened is just that..a guess. Maybe an educated guess, but still a guess.

[ChromeFoundry]

13. "Accused recced area four times before attack"

The police said they were raiding the nearby shops selling raincoats in the area to get any clue about the accused men. "We are presuming that the assailants might not have had an inkling of an overcast weather on Sunday morning. So they might have bought one the same day," said the officer.

Source: http://www.hindustantimes.com/Accused-recced-area-four-times-before-attack/Article1-602267.aspx

[Turborama]

14. Very interesting article, thanks for posting.

"Some bullets were fired even in the air. The attackers knew all the by lanes of the area and had no problem in fleeing the scene. They came from the police station side and fled towards Chawri Bazaar. We believe novice criminals carried it out and their motive was only to create panic. They even dropped a magazine in the melee. We have seized it and sent it for further examination," said the officer.

“It seems the weapon was of prohibited nature — used by policemen and security personnel. We are examining them,” said the officer.

[Vehl]

3. It's not so difficult to deduce the motive

With the Common Wealth games around the corner, I will be extremely surprised if the Al-Quaida/Taliban/or the other mujahadeen do not carry out such attacks. Their goal is to make the games a muted event, due to their attacks.


India has to do more to try curb these terrorists(even though it is doing quite a lot). But then again its virtually impossible to halt such a random attacks.

[Turborama]

5. From The Hindu: "the police have ruled out the involvement of any organised terror group"

Police officers stand guard outside the Jama
Masjid in New Delhi on Sunday

Two injured as armed men attack foreign tourists in Delhi

A red alert has been sounded as the attack comes barely two weeks ahead of the Commonwealth Games here.

Just a few hours after the incident there was another security scare as a Maruti 800 car went up in flames about 100 metres from the ancient mosque.

Though an e-mail, purportedly sent by the Indian Mujahideen to a radio station, claimed responsibility for the incident, the police have ruled out the involvement of any organised terror group.

“Investigation so far does not indicate any specific target or the involvement of any specific terror group. The police have recovered seven empty 9 mm cartridges from the spot,” said Delhi Police spokesperson Rajan Bhagat.

More: http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/article698793.ece?homepage=true

[OhioChick]

6. I guess that rules out any conspiracy theories n/t

[Turborama]

7. Yes, especially ones that feebly attempt to link it somehow to Pakistan's millions of flood victims

Those kinds of conspiracy theories can only come from a truly sick and warped mind!

Children at risk after Pakistan floods

Sunday, 19 September 2010 07:28

The United Nations has said more than 12,000 children have become acutely malnourished in Pakistan's flooded areas.

Many have been exposed to contaminated water, and are vulnerable to disease after seven weeks without proper food and medical care.

The charity Save the Children has warned that many of these children will die if help is not provided immediately.

The warning comes as senior officials from around the world meet UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon in New York today to discuss the global response to the crisis.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0919/pakistan.html

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmicone]

19. Police in India frequently issue such news releases

so that they are not accused of indiscriminately pointing at Pakistan.

Let them develop evidence and then the real story will come out.

[cosmicone]

26. Here is Pakistan's hand ....

<snip> While sources were wary of making a definitive conclusion, their estimate at this stage of investigation is strongly pointing to the role of IM which was launched by the ISI with the specific objective of masking the role of ISI and Lashkar in the series of bombing attacks on urban centres in India.

The assessment is based on a number of factors; above all, the fact that the group chose the anniversary of Batla House to announce its return. The killing of Atif Amin had dealt a big blow to the group which unleashed a wave of terror attacks between 2007 and 2009, savaging Delhi, Ahmedabad, Jaipur Surat and Faizabad. According to investigating agencies, Amin was the chief bomber of the group.</snip>

Read more: LeT proxy strikes on anniv of Batla House encounter - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/LeT-proxy-strikes-on-anniv-of-Batla-House-encounter/articleshow/6588164.cms#ixzz101pv5l5U

[Turborama]

32. See

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4545705&mesg_id=4546101">This response

[cosmicone]

34. Perhaps one shouldn't read more than what is in a post. n/t

[Turborama]

37. Reuters: Australia, U.S. warn citizens as India probes shooting

By Bappa Majumdar
NEW DELHI | Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:05am EDT

Australia and the United States issued travel warnings Monday a day after two Taiwanese nationals were shot at near India's main mosque in the nation's capital and an explosion in a car at the same place.

=snip=

Indian authorities played down Sunday's shooting, saying it could be the work of local criminals. "It is a serious case, but we don't want to cause panic among people before the games," the interior ministry official said.

The Commonwealth Games, an event organized by the 54-member organization of mainly former British colonies and held every four years, begin on October 3.

But the Games in India threaten to become an embarrassment with organizers fighting corruption charges and struggling to get venues ready. The cost of the event has risen more than 17.5 times from the original estimate and is now put at $6 billion.

Full article: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68J13420100920