Despite economy, Americans don't want farm work

[Mefistofeles]

Source: AP

Sept. 27-2010

VISALIA, Calif. – As the economy tanked during the past two years, a debate has raged over whether immigrants are taking jobs that Americans want. Here, amid the sweltering vineyards of the largest farm state, the answer is no.

Most Americans simply don't apply for jobs harvesting fruits and vegetables in California, where one of every eight people is out of work, according to government data for a federal seasonal farmworker program analyzed by The Associated Press.

And the few unemployed Americans who apply through official channels usually don't stay on in the fields, a point comedian Stephen Colbert — dressed as a field hand — has alluded to in recent broadcasts on Comedy Central.

"It's just not something that most Americans are going to pack up their bags and move here to do," said farmer Steve Fortin, who pays $10.25 an hour to foreign workers to trim strawberry plants for six weeks each summer at his nursery near the Nevada border. He has spent $3,000 this year ensuring domestic workers have first dibs on his jobs in the sparsely populated stretch of the state, advertising in newspapers and on an electronic job registry.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigration_jobs;_ylt=AnSCmuh08gRDNvO5QQ_WjrSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNubXE0bzBsBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwOTI3L3VzX2ltbWlncmF0aW9uX2pvYnMEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwM1BHBvcwMyBHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5faGVhZGxpbmVfbGlzdARzbGsDZGVz

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It's worth mentioning that legal residents (not only US Citizens) are not applying for farm jobs either, according to the article.

In the first paragraph, we're told that, a "debate has raged over whether immigrants are taking jobs that Americans want. " Attention journalists: The debate is not about "immigrants" but "undocumented or illegal immigrants". It's ok to call them illegal immigrants or undocumented.
That said, this piece bolsters the claim that undocumented immigrants are taking the jobs others do not want.

[rfranklin]

1. $10.25 is not a living wage...unless you are living in...

stacked housing with three and four people sharing a single room. There's no health care. No paid vacation. No 401K.

It's is cruel and cynical to speak about backbreaking labor at this rate as being a "job" and castigating people for not wanting to do such work.

[dkf]

3. Yet it exceeds the minimum wage that I'm sure many people are paid at.

[Mefistofeles]

22. If you are "sure" the salary is minium wage, then you must have a link

Right?

[dkf]

29. Federal minimum is $7.25

http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm

[Nikia]

25. Part of the problem is that few people live around there

Therefore there aren't many unemployed people who would be available to take 6 weeks of work. Many Americans don't want to travel in order to work because they prefer a more stable lifestyle and one loses money if they are maintaining a permanet residence and temporary residences. Not having a record of permanent residences sometimes makes it hard to get permanet jobs. Some farms do offer free housing but it is often dilapidated shacks or trailers.

[TBF]

37. So that makes it a living wage? Because others are paid less?

:shrug:

[Hello_Kitty]

6. Yep. And the fact that so many liberals engage in this rhetoric is disgusting.

It's as if to support immigrants' rights you are required to take swipes at poor Americans.

[JDPriestly]

13. I don't think that is the problem. My dad worked at this kind of

work when he was a student. Needless to say, I now realize that I owe my love of vegetables and fruits to my dad's experiences in truck farming.

I think that the problem is the way that the work is advertised and the pervasive stereotype that illegal immigrants do all this work. Yes. It is hard work. But what if younger people -- students during vacations or taking time off or attending school part-time worked half-days. Some of them would enjoy spending time outdoors and developing a little muscle.

This is a public relations problem.

[Downwinder]

15. I did that work as a summer High School job. Sure makes you appreciate

other work. It also makes you study harder. All together, it was damn good training.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. That isn't the biggest problem either. The problem is it's a temp work.

You don't actually have that 10.25/hr year round.

[dkf]

2. So Americans are lazy then?

[Mefistofeles]

21. American and legal residents do not want farm jobs

That's all. The data is there. Didn't say they were lazy. They may work hard in their non-farm jobs.

[Greyhound]

4. Imagine that, AP re-writing one of the longest standing pervasive lies of the whole

race to the bottom.

I think it is in their corporate charter that they must distribute this lie every two months or their kicked out of the Chamber of Commerce.
:kick: & U

[Hello_Kitty]

7. + 100000

:thumbsup:

[Tippy]

5. I don't believe this to be true. It may be more true in CA,

But I know lots of Americans are doing jobs today that they wouldn't have done before. Recently a youg man drove from IN to TN looking for farm work...Also Colberts gig is making jokes/funny here is one he to told at the hearing a few days ago "This is America. I don't want a tomato picked by a Mexican. I want it picked by an American, then sliced by a Guatemalan, then served by a Venezuelan, in a spa where a Chilean gives me a Brazilian." There is nothing funny about the state of our economy and Colbert offers nothing but hot air.

[Hello_Kitty]

8. The way people here were gushing over his performance was sickening

They thought it was a masterstroke of biting satire. All I saw was a rich white dude wagging his finger at "lazy" American workers and pushing corporate cheap labor propaganda.

[Still Blue in PDX]

11. It's not laziness, it's wanting to be paid for work performed.

I inferred that the finger-wagging was directed at the employers.

I didn't find his performance particularly funny. I don't believe it was meant to be, because Colbert is a very funny guy.

[Hello_Kitty]

18. He didn't breathe a word of criticism of the employers

He said the solution to horrible working conditions is more visas.

[Still Blue in PDX]

26. I guess I (and a lot of others) misunderstood his point, then. nt

[Hello_Kitty]

28. Show me where he did.

He talked about shortages of workers and farms moving to Mexico if they don't get their slave labor in the U.S.

[Tippy]

34. Farms moving to Mexico?

Don't think this will happen, a lot would depend on growing conditions, how well the soil will support what they are growing...They could sell their farms in the US and a few might but not the real farmers, corporate farms possibly....

[Hello_Kitty]

36. Colbert testified that a million and a half acres have moved to Mexico.

Because of slave labor shortages.

[Javaman]

31. While that is true, you could say that the following comment he made

could be interpreted as him taking a shot at the employers...

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-dallas/stephen-colbert-s-congress-routine-fell-flat-full-transcript-video-of-testimony

"And it just stands to reason to me that if your co worker can't be exploited, that you are less likely to be exploited yourself and that, in itself, might improve pay and working conditions on these farms - and Americans may consider taking these jobs again."

But I agree, Colbert had a perfect opportunity to point the finger of blame squarely at the employers but didn't. That is the failing of his testimony.

[Tippy]

33. Not suprising he is after all a republican,,,n/t

[Confusious]

38. How do you figure that?

Colberts entire show is one big piece of sarcasm.

[Tippy]

40. He has to be a Republican

No self respctibg Democrat would have a Picture on display..

[Still Blue in PDX]

46. I believe he has said he is an Independent.

:wtf:

Maybe some people do take his Repug act seriously, but I thought he did an admirable job of blowing his cover at that White House Press thingamabobber a few years ago.

[JDPriestly]

14. I thought Colbert was great in front of Congress.

Through his humor, he bares our hypocrisy. That is why his jokes made people uncomfortable. We do want our tomato "picked by an American, then sliced by a Guatemalan, then served by a Venezuelan," etc. But we feel uncomfortable when Colbert points out to us that is what we want. We feel ashamed because we have to acknowledge just how stupid we really are.

[Hello_Kitty]

19. Hypocrisy is a rich guy pitting unemployed Americans against poor immigrants.

That's what Colbert was doing, aided and abetted by DLC stooges in Congress and the worthless UFW.

[JDPriestly]

24. I thought he was just trying to get higher wages and change the

incentive causing employers to hire undocumented immigrants and other immigrants by advocating that those employees have the same rights and protections as American employees. That is simply fair for everyone.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. He was.

Don't be baffled by the bullshit.

[bergie321]

9. Have they tried

Raising the wages?

[Rincewind]

10. Hell no,

they never try raising the wages, that would cut into their profit. There are a lot of people in this country that think that anyone who preforms any sort of physical labor should be paid as little as possible, and be overjoyed at having any sort of a job. No matter how bad.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. A lot of people in the Pacific Northwest remember when berry picking

was a summer job for school kids.

I remember when Green Giant used to send buses to the University of Minnesota during the summer to hire students during the heavy canning and freezing season.

It's not that Americans don't want the jobs.

It's that employers want someone cheaper.

Remember Michael Moore's movie The Big One, in which he confronts Phil Knight about having Nike shoes made by 14-year-olds in Indonesia?

"Americans don't want to make shoes," Knight says.

And Moore's comment, "No, not for $5 a day."

[Stumbler]

16. Exactly

There's a difference between "some jobs Americans don't want to work" and "some wages Americans don't want to work for."

[Art_from_Ark]

23. That reminds me of the time I picked blueberries for $1.25/bucket in 1982

It took about an hour to get a bucket of those little things, and that was out in the hot July sun. I ended up picking about 5 buckets worth in 5 hours, and getting a whopping $6.25 for my efforts.

[Javaman]

32. it's the willful lowering of our standard of living that the republicans are after...

they bitch and complain over "illegals taking our jobs", but the reality is: the wage that is paid to these poor folks often so low that even the poor in this nation are left wanting.

The stupid statement by ray-gun of "the tide raises all boats" fails to understand that that same tide also lowers all boats. And that is the theme that the republicans are trying like hell to pound into us.

It's not that the rate of pay should go up to allow a livable wage, it's that we should take unbelievable low paying jobs to lower our standard of living.

They so want to remove any voice or any power for the people. People of any race, creed or color.

What pains the republicans even more is how we on the left want a living wage for EVERYONE, including the people who pick our fruit and vegetables. We raise their pay, their standard of living goes up and more than likely they vote Dem.

But the larger point to the repubs is: the corporations take the financial hit, thus decreasing their donations to the repubs.

As long as they keep the wages low, the power of the poor is greatly decreased. More pay allows for less stress, less stress allows for more personal time, more personal time allows one to be more informed. More informed people are a threat to the repubs.

[Confusious]

39. kennedy

A rising tide lifts all boats.

[Javaman]

41. Reagan...

http://www.newpittsburghcourieronline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1945:a-rising-tide-lifts-all-boats&catid=40:opinion&Itemid=54

"You’ve heard the saying; it was made famous by John F. Kennedy to suggest that an increase in a particular region’s wealth would enhance the overall wealth of the entire country. Ronald Reagan and his minions came along and used the same aphorism to suggest that an increase in individual wealth, namely through tax cuts, would result in a “Trickling-Down” of prosperity to the poor (Supply-Side Economics). Now we hear the phrase being uttered by President Barack Obama—I wonder what he means by it?
Whatever the intent, original, twisted or revised, there is an overriding truth in the phrase: A rising tide lifts all boats, that is, if you have a boat, it has no holes in it, and it is in the water rather than in dry-dock."

that is what I'm referring to.

[Luciferous]

17. Maybe if they paid a living wage people would be willing to do it.

I live in a really cheap area of the country and I know that we would NOT be able to make it on 10.25/hr.

[Synicus Maximus]

27. I did farm work until I went to college. Of course I wasn't paid but it

did make me realize I needed to find a easier, better way to make a living.

[MARALE]

35. Some of the issue is because immigrants have the jobs

My 21 year old son took a job at a nursery because he needed the money and did not mind the work. the issue was nobody spoke English and his foreman could not communicate with him. he had to quit because of it. he could not understand what was being asked of him and could not communicate with anyone he worked with. I am sure there are many places like that.

[joeglow3]

42. Correction: Americans don't want farm jobs at SHIT wages due to flooded labor pool.

Lets be honest here.

For the record, this steaming pile of shit argument is the same people used when denigrating my father by saying "no American wants to do drywall." The fact is that he was MORE THAN HAPPY to do the job when he was able to provide a working class living to his family. However, you are god damn right he did not want to work it when illegals flooded the labor pool, busted the unions and cut wages in half.

[MellowDem]

43. It is good to point out that LEGAL immigrants....

aren't taking the jobs either. Business conservatives love illegal workers. Shame on Colbert (and whoever that ass was he interviewed in New York on the farm) for promoting the exploitation of illegal workers and cheap labor over human dignity and worker's rights, all in the name of cheap products and profit. Giving these people Visas won't do shit for their working conditions or their status. Hell, if you somehow make them legal, they'll likely be fired so that other illegal workers can be hired.

[riderinthestorm]

44. I am an organic farmer. I hire people to help me, primarily Mexicans.

Granted, mine is an extremely small farm but perhaps one could see it as a microscopic look at reality.

I hire 3 people every summer, April - October, to help me with the organic farming operation on my farm. I have tried, TRIED, to hire Americans for the job at $10/hour, for more than 20 years. No such luck. I get teens who quit after a week or so, or teens who put in a crappy work day. I now almost exclusively give the jobs to friends of my permanent Mexican workers because I know they will stay and do a good job. It's really hard work (don't misunderstand, my husband and I and my kids all work alongside my workers but this is hard labor).

Most of my laborers have a 6 - 8th grade education. Many are illiterate. Virtually none of them speak English (I speak Spanish). What kind of job/pay/hours do you think ANYONE is going to get with that kind of education and skill set here in the US?

Before you all go ape-shit over the hours/labor/work intensity on produce operations, really THINK about the labor that works there. It's tough, don't get me wrong, I grieve over the hardship but the fact remains, these are semi-literate folks who work these kinds of jobs. I have an MBA and I toil in the gardens alongside everyone else. I don't dare break down what my labor might be paid (or I'd cry. I know what I get per hour training horses but the market produce operation? Oh puh-leeze!)

The folks working the fields have very few options either in Mexico (Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador - you name it, every Central American country the US has meddled in or outright caused catastrophe). NAFTA was the final clincher that nailed the coffin for many rural ag workers in these countries as they saw their small market niches destroyed by big US Agri-Biz.

[BreweryYardRat]

45. Most people aren't going to move for $10 an hour, because...

...it's not cost-effective.

[Terry in Austin]

47. A living wage is at least $12.00 an hour

If you work for a living, you should get the wages for a living, simple as that. If we can't do that, then what we have is a social contract that's downright unconscionable. (But I guess we already suspected as much!)

All this smoke about farm workers being uneducated, etc., etc. totally misses the point. It's also kind of sad and brainwashed.

Man, if anything, the crappier jobs ought to pay more! Mr./Ms. MBA sitting in a comfy chair pushing electrons and solving interesting problems get rewarded in many ways besides money.