Sarah Palin Criticized Over Gabrielle Giffords Presence on "Target List"

[Turborama]

Source: CBS

Updated 7:52 p.m. Eastern Time

We do not yet know what prompted 22-year-old accused gunman Jared Loughner to allegedly shoot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and others, including a child and federal judge who died from their wounds.

But critics of Sarah Palin have already drawn a link between the shooting and the fact that the former Alaska governor put Giffords on a "target list" of lawmakers Palin wanted to see unseated in the midterm elections.

In March, Palin released a map featuring 20 House Democrats that used crosshairs images to show their districts. (You can see it here.) Critics suggested at the time that she was inciting violence by using the crosshairs imagery and for later writing on Twitter to her supporters, "'Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!'"

"We're paying particular attention to those House members who voted in favor of Obamacare and represent districts that Senator John McCain and I carried during the 2008 election," Palin wrote when she released the target list.

She specifically cited Giffords and then went to say: "We'll aim for these races and many others."

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20027918-503544.html?tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea

---

Related OP which has Giffords' reaction to being put in Sarah Palin's gunsight crosshairs...

“I think it’s important for all leaders, not just leaders of the Republican Party or the Democratic Party … community leaders, figures in our community to say, ‘Look, we can’t stand for this.’ I mean, this is a situation where people really need to realize that this rhetoric, and firing people up, and even things … For example, we’re on Sarah Palin’s targeted list, but the way she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gunsight over our district. And when people do that, they’ve gotta realize that there’s consequences to that action.”

More: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x143296

[aquart]

1. And I've already read dismissals by Palin supporters.

"Nothing to do with Sarah Palin."

[6000eliot]

71. If only this horrific act marked the end of this loathsome creature on the national stage.

Too high a price though.

[TBF]

72. They ought to look to Palin before they say that - she was the one deleting

things from her website as the tragedy unfolded. Why delete the map if it is not damaging?

[PatrynXX]

97. also seen people connecting such people getting called a retard

Oh the Irony. Want Irony, ? thats one of the reasons I'm liberal. Because of alot of pricks when I was growing up called me that name.

[BanTheGOP]

137. As I keep saying again and again and again: The GOP is 100% responsible

I am SICK AND TIRED of the republican Party even being ALLOWED to exist as an organization, when we now have absolute, unadulterated murderous PROOF of its intentions and its total desire to DESTROY PEOPLE. It is NOT a political organization at this point. It is NOTHING SHORT of a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION...FAR worse than Al Quaeda! FAR worse than Nazi Germany. FAR worse than ANY OTHER group in history, BAR NONE.

Sarah Palin is the titular head of this party, and with her murderous rampage that included the poor granddaughter of a revered baseball manager, SHE should be in the cell next to the person she influenced to pull off this horrific deed. In addition, the republican Party ITSELF must be held accountable for allowing the conditions to fester for decades which LED to the Tea Party Terrorist movement, and now has claimed its first victims.

I've already opined on how to ban the GOP through RICO statutes, identifying and deconstructing its financial apparatus. NOW, see what you have wrought by NOT FOLLOWING THROUGH ON THIS?

Sarah must be jailed for life on this act. Jesse Kelly should be held just as accountable as well.

I sincerely hope that Loughner tells the truth on how the Tea Party, in particularly how Sarah Palin influenced his deeds and that the full weight of legal and, if necessary, legal physical enforcement against the republican Party become a reality. It is an insidious shame that it took a republican-sponsored murder to accomplish that feat.

[PatrynXX]

160. would seem the shooter would be pro Iran

if he's anti ZOG and anti Semite both of which the current idiots in Iran who stole the election are controlling

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[piggy2000]

140. Consequences

Mrs. Palin put that map out there as if there would be no consequences. Her actions and her response only demonstrate that she should not be a leader in any national organization. She is not fit to lead. She is only a quitter.

[DeSwiss]

2. K&R

The shooter:

JARED LEE LOUGHNER

[Kurmudgeon]

90. Why do they use his school picture?

I've seen other more recent photos. Jared is hardly this long haired person now.

[PatrynXX]

98. well that would make more sense then

Don't need a shooter looking like someone off Def Leppard :(

[truth2power]

125. That's just part of the messaging, you understand...

Seeing that pic, before I even read your post, I had the same response. Incongruent, I think.

[bajamary]

3. in the crosshairs

What are the odds of an murder attempting to kill a Congressperson that Sarah Pallin put into the crosshairs of a gunsite on her "Hit List" of 20 Congresspeople that Sarah Pallin wanted to eliminate?

Has is not occurred to the good people of Tuscon, that there is likely a relationship between Sarah Pallin's Hit List and this clearly crazy young white man.

Sarah Pallin's website was only removed from the web this afternoon.

[rfranklin]

5. If there is no connection why remove it?

Are they ashamed of their exhortations?

[progressivebydesign]

12. Exactly!

If Palin felt that her inciting language and graphics were harmless, then why remove them? Those people know exactly what they're doing. She did it during the general election, and continues on. The blood is on the hands of people like Palin AND Beck to incite the unstable and disenfranchised to violence through their rhetoric.

[grahamhgreen]

58. +1

[coalition_unwilling]

91. The blood of a 9-year-old little girl. I am so ashamed of my

country and what it has become this morning. Words cannot begin to describe it.

Maybe this will lead the establishment to repudiate once and for all Palin and her ilk, but I doubt it. Palin should have been publicly repudiated. rebuked and admonished a long time ago by Republican Party leaders. That she was not speaks volumes.

[PatrynXX]

100. The moment a kid becomes killed

Anybody who encouraged such behavior must be held as an accomplice :( Or heavily fined, may the money go the childs family

[molly77]

117. WE live in a country where anti war activists are investigated by the

FBI and jailed.But right wingers can go on air and call for assassination of political enemies..ie Pat Robertson. We need some laws changed now about our air ways and the rights of people in this country. Groping at the airport and investigating Quakers is ok? We are way way off course.

[Lorien]

128. Simple way to fix much that is wrong with this Nation: restore the Fairness Doctrine

But I always get crickets when I mention this. Too many people-even liberals-now swallow Rush Limbaugh's anti-fairness doctrine BS when those of us who are older KNOW that it had a very positive effect in this Country for 60 years.

[truth2power]

126. I don't have much use for David Gregory, but...

He almost broke up this morning on MTP when he mentioned the nine year old girl. It was very apparent.

[jkappy]

131. She is Dallas Greene's Grand-daughter

[No Elephants]

51. So her supporters can one day claim it was never there, or mischaracterized.

Low info segment of the public will believe it.

[Dappleganger]

53. Yep, that's what I said.

I still have it opened up in my browser from earlier today, pre-scrubbing.

[tavalon]

81. Screen capture all you can

[davidhilton]

61. Sure would be intense if this guy came out and said

Sarah Palin and her targets were his inspiration for going on a killing spree.
I'd like to hear what she would say to that...

[russspeakeasy]

108. She would say that people are out to get her.

[tavalon]

79. If their lawyers didn't tell them to remove it,

They have lousy lawyers.

[tavalon]

80. If their lawyers didn't tell them to remove it,

They have lousy lawyers.

[russspeakeasy]

106. Not ashamed.....just hiding for a few weeks.

[skepticscott]

6. Especially when you consider

how rarely ANYONE actually takes a shot at a member of Congress. Coincidence? Probably not.

Would it have been acceptable if Palin had posted a picture of the White House with a rifle sight superimposed on her web site? So why was this?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

39. anyone else on that hitlist should beware the Palin silent dog whistle

media or tv personalities can blow the silent dog whistle and voila

[EmeraldCityGrl]

107. I agree. everyone on that list should be assigned a security

detail. This event is only going to incite more violence. I hope
someone is considering this. What a message that would send.

[StarryNite]

175. Had a Muslim created the "Hit List"

he would have been arrested as a terrorist.

[RedCloud]

4. The outside world is Left and Right with only one direction dead.

[Devil_Fish]

7. Here Sarah, We have updated your map for you.

[reformist2]

22. Actually, only she and Rahall won their elections last fall.

One wonders if that made her a special target of the crazies...

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Excellent

[jonthebru]

27. People should email the new map to her

and post it on here facebook and twitter pages.

[russspeakeasy]

34. Good idea...so I did.

[Lifelong Protester]

132. I posted the map on my FB page last night, along with the

link to the Guardian UK paper, linking Palin's rhetoric to the event yesterday.
This needs to go viral.

[felix_numinous]

8. A country in a depression

with a high jobless and poverty rate, a struggling infrastructure and educational system, with war veterans returning with PTSD, is fertile ground for unstable and potentially violent personalities to flourish. We have had many discussions about what hate media can spawn--and today it happened, again. Unstable people need positive support, not suggestions on how to vent their anger and rage. The RW MSM is unmistakably complicit.

Let no Republican RW teabagger try to spin their way out of the real issue--propaganda works-- so why not suggest ways of working together and understanding each other!! Their negativity is a security threat.

[Swagman]

24. that is a good analysis. The conditions are right for unstable

people to act like in this tragedy and if creeps like Palin and all those right wing gasbags at Fox continue to target others with their hateful rhetoric instead of real political discourse they will push an unbalanced mind in a direction with terrible consequences.

DO NOT let these creeps of the hook about this. They call for murder all the time (Assange).

[BanTheGOP]

138. I disagree: NO Tea Party scum can ever change

There is no way to change the behavior of Tea party scum on their own. They need to be legally and, if necessarily, forcefully (through legal means of course) divested of their ability to maintain a stance that aligns themselves with the most despotic organization in the history of the world: The republican Party.

[felix_numinous]

156. I can see how

it sounded like I was suggesting Republicans be convinced to change---and I meant to say that the media need to change their tune, and the Republicans should have nothing to do with that. Poor wording on my part..

[LawnKorn]

9. Okay, Let's see John Boehner call Ms. Palin up before Congress for a little question and answer

A Congressional investigation of Palin's Target Chart, broadcast on CSPAN, would go a long way in setting the record straight.

[forty6]

75. Oh, I like that idea! Very good one! Does anyone think Fox News would

cover it? NAH!!!!!

[Kolesar]

10. McCain: "reload" or go back in to the fight again, please...Those (words) are fine

GREAT LINK FROM CBS, Turborama:

"This is -- any threat of violence is terrible, but to say that there is a targeted district or that we 'reload' or go back in to the fight again, please...Those are fine. They're used all the time," he said, adding: "Those words have been used throughout of my political career. There are targeted districts, and there are areas that we call battleground states, and so please, that rhetoric and kind of language is just part of the political lexicon. There is no place for threats of violence or anything else, but to say that someone is in a battleground state is not originated today."

He has lost his mind. He should have kept his mouth shut.

[progressivebydesign]

13. What an idiot. Gun crosshairs are okay? "reload" is okay?!

Wow, they are spinning as hard as they can. I want Mr. McCain to show me ONE Democratic candidate, personality, or mailer, that features gun imagery and language like that. We don't have them, because we are NOT using the NRA as our marketing consultants in trying to pander to the unstable.

[melm00se]

66. I agree that "reload" is a poor word choice

but can you give me some ideas as to what kind of graphic you would use to denote 'target for defeat'?

[Goblinmonger]

84. How about a bullseye?

That is a whole lot less than a crosshair.

[truth2power]

127. Exactly! n/t

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

11. Contact GoDaddy and demand this terrorist site be closed down:

Domain Name: SARAHPAC.COM
Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.
Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
Name Server: NS1.P33.DYNECT.NET
Name Server: NS2.P33.DYNECT.NET
Name Server: NS3.P33.DYNECT.NET
Name Server: NS4.P33.DYNECT.NET
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 27-dec-2010
Creation Date: 02-jan-2009
Expiration Date: 02-jan-2012

Email: [e-mail]

[bitchkitty]

64. Is her site hosted there?

Otherwise, they can't take it down. They could pull the name, I guess, but the site itself, unless they host it they have no access to it.

[Crowman1979]

14. I hope the bright side out of this will be the end of Palin's career.

[Kerrytravelers]

48. There is no bright side. Even if it does end Palin's half-term career, people sacraficed their lives

I do hope, however, that these people's sacrifice not be in vain. I hope that this tragedy causes people to think next time to violent rhetoric begins and that it is no longer accepted, regardless of which side of the aisle the rhetoric occurs.

I know this is what you meant, that you have no intention of being flippant.

[Gin Blossom]

144. And the violent rhetoric on the Dem side would be?

I hope more people think about the fact that violent rhetoric doesn't come from both "sides of the aisle".

[Kerrytravelers]

153. Our leaders aren't violent like theirs, but I've certainly heard from pretty nasty and violent

remarks at protests and gatherings in my time. There is nothing at all wrong with saying that everyone needs to take a deep breath and calm the hell down.

[Marthe48]

162. How many of the remarks made it to TV every day?

When I volunteered at Dem headquarters, I heard angry comments about the way things are, but not remarks about using violence. And the comments weren't sent out on radio and TV. I wish that people who have radio and TV shows had some kind of connection between their brains and their mouths. If they did, maybe they'd stop talking like thugs.

[Kerrytravelers]

170. It's good that you haven't heard some of the things I have.

ANd when I hear them, I'd always remark that we don't want anyone to get hurt or die, just stop the way they are XYZing.

Things don't have to make it to tv or radio to matter.


It will be a great day when people finally no longer excuse the Palin-Beck-O'Reilly-Limbaugh-Hannity-Coluter-Savage-etc. of the world and dismiss them from polite society and social airwaves.

[Plucketeer]

15. Wait a minute!

Wouldn't all this qualify as TERRORISM???? Domestic TERRORISM???





BOEHNER - McDUNCELL JOBS PLAN

[safeinOhio]

19. Palin as the radical Cleric that

is fermenting violence.

[Imagevision]

43. K&R!!!

[forty6]

76. Double K+R ! n/t

[24601]

70. So you say that President Obama's administration failed to stop a

terrorist attack?

[harvey007]

99. Palin also called for illegal retaliation against Julian Assange

And she called for the illegal kidnapping of Wikileaks people. And remember the idiots on Fox also were calling for blood.

[NewJeffCT]

109. Don't be silly

terrorism is only perpetrated by people with brown skin and/or people that worship Allah.

[Plucketeer]

150. Dick Armey has a fair tan.

And he was quick to suggest that we concentrate on the shooter's craziness rather than the incitefrul rhetoric that enabled his craziness to justify his actions.




BOEHNER - McDUNCELL JOBS PLAN

[BanTheGOP]

139. The GOP IS a terrorist organization! Pure and simple

That is why it needs to be disbanded through RICO statutes and all its officers and instigators jailed like common terrorists at Guantanamo. THAT would be the only good use for that facility.

[DeSwiss]

16. Words from Rep. Gabrielle Giffords about being "targeted":

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords certainly thought Sarah Palin's map was relevant to the threat of violence. This is what she told MSNBC on March 25, 2010:

"...for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district, and when people do that, they've gotta realize there are consequences to that action."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/is-palins-crosshairs-map_b_806277.html">link

[louis-t]

152. I hope MSNBC replays that clip.

Over and over and over. Wow. Prophetic.

[timtom]

17. She needs a "come-to-Jesus" meeting with DHS!!!

This isn't about a burning bush remark made in a bar!

[mckara]

30. I'd Like to See Sarah in Gitmo, as a Domestic Terrorist, Along With Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity...

Civil discourse would improve dramatically overnight!

[russspeakeasy]

110. mckara...in just a few words you nailed it...

[Plucketeer]

151. I'm with you!

The ONLY reason these folks aren't rounded up is because of a lack of proper "framing" of what their stoking efforts really are. If it was framed as TERROR, it would be recognized as such. Maybe what they do should be recognized as "Stealth Terror". Terror that's in your face, but you can't see it.

[lovuian]

18. She needs to be arrested

and questioned

[myrna minx]

20. K&R n.t

[reformist2]

21. She and Rahall of WV are the last two left still in Congress!

[mod mom]

23. Tucson Tea Party Leader: We Won't Change Our Rhetoric After Giffords Shooting

Tucson Tea Party Leader: We Won't Change Our Rhetoric After Giffords Shooting

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/tucson-tea-party-leader-we-wont-change-our-rhetoric-after-gifford-shooting.php?ref=fpb



These thugs know exactly what they are doing: inciting violence. It's PAST TIME to hold them accountable.

[Justitia]

25. Why should they? It's working for them.

:sarcasm:

[dogfacedboy]

60. They will if they know what's good for them.

[Joey Liberal]

68. The Tea Party is worse than Al Qaeda nt

[harun]

78. I figured they would be loving this, and they are.

[wordpix]

120. "These thugs know exactly what they are doing: inciting violence"---same as killing abortion docs

using same tactics---put people in the crosshairs and urge them to "reload"

[mckara]

28. It's Time for Sarah to Return to Alaska, and Stay There!

[wordpix]

172. no, brown bears and eagles are way too good for her - send her to the Badlands without water

[stockholmer]

29. damn, the 9 year shot and killed was born on 9-11-2001, so tragic

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7832686-rip-christina-taylor-green-born-on-911-died-today-by-a-gunmans-hand

Christina Taylor Green, nine-year-old victim in today's Tucson shootings, once was an infant designated to be a "Face of Hope" by virtue of her birth on September 11, 2001. She was one of the children born on 9/11 featured in the book by Christine Pisera Naman which was dedicated to all the babies born on the day the World Trade Towers in New York City were taken down in an act of terrorism.
Ironically, today her life ended in violence, as she fell under the attack of a gunman at a political function at a supermarket.
A neighbor was going to the Giffords event today, the Arizona Republic reports, and invited Christina along simply because she thought she would enjoy it, according to Christina's uncle, Greg Segalini. Christina was newly elected to the student council at her school.
The event, an opportunity for constituents to meet Giffords and discuss any concerns they had related to the federal government, was an outdoor family friendly event.
A talented girl, Christina Green participated in many activities, ranging from ballet to baseball.
"How do you prepare for something like this? My little niece got killed--took one on the chest and she is dead," Segalini reportedly said outside the girl's house.
The public yields a stunned assent.
"She was born on 9-11 and died today? That's the most tragic thing I've ever heard," a Facebook comment asserts.
Christina's page in Faces of Hope reads: I hope you know all the words to the Star Spangled Banner and sing it with your hand over your heart. I hope you jump in rain puddles (p. 42).

[nolabear]

32. Oh, dear lord. What have we come to?

What have we come to?

[Justitia]

36. This is one of the saddest things I have ever read. What a beautiful face, RIP -eom

[icarusxat]

52. Way to go Sarah

Thanks for your halfterm stupid rhetoric. Moose and baby killer...you go gurl

[Dappleganger]

54. Thanks for posting this, I just put it up on my FB.

Also put the Olberman video up as well. I'm just spent of emotion right now and cannot get to sleep.

[PhillySane]

92. Granddaughter of Dallas Green

ex manager for the Phillies.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

31. K&R

[russspeakeasy]

33. Me thinks she protest too much....Palin that is.

[ashleyforachange]

35. Everytime...

the mention the little girl I cry and pray for her family. I hope the person responsible is prosecuted to the fullest. I hope those he influence will take a step and examine the words they have said to cause this. Hopefully they can change their rhetoric.

[OhioChick]

37. A "target list" is the same as a "hit list"

The woman should never have been allowed to use this type of propaganda. If I did, I'd be in jail.

If she has a conscience at all, it'll be a long time before she gets a good night's sleep again.

[coalition_unwilling]

94. Sarah Palin and 'conscience' don't seem to go together in any

sentence I can think of, other than 'Sarah Palin is a sociopath and doesn't have a conscience.'

[Kurovski]

38. Maybe lawsuits will hush her screeches and yammering.

[Joey Liberal]

40. Welcome to right wing America

We've become a third world, right-wing, evangelical, gun-nut country.

[SoapBox]

41. "Video: Sarah Palin – ABC Interview, 2nd Amendment Rights"

...for the video, go here:

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/01/08/video-sarah-palin-abc-interview-2nd-amendment-rights/

It's the solution for everything from the RushThugs and T.HaterBaggers...just kill everyone and everything:

...cut off healthcare and transplant help

...start wars

...arm anyone and everyone with guns

...execute those we don't like

They keep it simple...Die Quickly.

[Imagevision]

42. If there was no connection why did Palin pull the attack ad from her official website 3 hours after

the killings and the bullet to the head of Gabrielle Giffords

[calimary]

62. Indeed.

[pacalo]

44. McCain excused Palin's lack of judgment...

When Palin was being criticized for the target list, McCain came to her defense, saying, "I have seen the rhetoric of targeted districts as long as I've been in politics."

"This is -- any threat of violence is terrible, but to say that there is a targeted district or that we 'reload' or go back in to the fight again, please...Those are fine. They're used all the time," he said, adding: "Those words have been used throughout of my political career. There are targeted districts, and there are areas that we call battleground states, and so please, that rhetoric and kind of language is just part of the political lexicon. There is no place for threats of violence or anything else, but to say that someone is in a battleground state is not originated today."

Seriously, I do wonder about McCain's judgment compared to his more impressive years as a moderate Republican. I'm genuinely concerned about that large lump on the cartoid area of his face. My dad had one just as large, learned it was skin cancer. It spread throughout his body, although his brain seemed to be unaffected. Just saying, McCain isn't the sensible man he used to be; even seems to be at odds with his family on issues at times. Just wondering if there's a health problem going on.

[Imagevision]

45. FOXnews is defending Palin now... she is an employee

[pacalo]

46. That's par for the course & well-expected of their caliber.

[thaddeus_flowe]

47. first post/long time reader

Unfortunately, I have the bad feeling she will never truly pay
for inciting this tragic violence she is responsible for.
I know a message board like this attempts to use logic when
coming to conclusions, but the msm and those who consume it,
are evidently incapable of empathy and rationality. 

[pacalo]

56. We'll find out on Monday when regular news programming resumes.

I hope something good comes out of this tragedy. Six people lost their lives, one a beautiful little 9-year-old girl, & that's a serious catalyst for action by leadership.

This is going to remain with us for a long time.

Wecome to DU, thaddeus_flow!

:hi:

[Joey Liberal]

67. There is no excuse for FOX News

The Nazi Channel.

[No Elephants]

49. To which Palin replied, "RELOAD!"

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AsahinaKimi]

55. Just reading the comments on the CBS website

make me ill.

[Lindsey]

57. I'm so devastated by this horrible, horrble incident. Sara Palin

is a domestic terrorist and should go to prison. May she never, ever show her face in public again. May she never, ever sleep. May she rot in Hell.

[democrank]

59. Palin`s map is a good example of

just how far we`ve sunk.

[murdoch]

63. The target list says "It's time to take a stand"

I guess someone did. Although for what I don't know, other than this hysterical tea party nonsense...

[ChairmanAgnostic]

65. Her new name: Crosshair Sarah

Saw it on kos. It works for me.

[Joey Liberal]

69. Great name for that Tea Bagging Bitch. nt

[coalition_unwilling]

96. Crosshair Barbie - n/t

[TBF]

73. Republicans are very big about people taking responsibilities for their actions -

why is Sarah deleting the map and hiding?

[Enthusiast]

74. I think we need to hammer Palin until

she stops with the violent rhetoric. She also should have to tell the truth about 'Obama care' instead of these wild claims that make gullible people insanely crazy.

[baldguy]

77. CBSnews.com front page:

Palin & Loughner right next to each other.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

86. a match made in heaven.

They belong together, after all.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

82. How many other Ds on Palin's hitlist might face the same danger Giffords faced? Only ONE:

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x149023 .

[ChairmanAgnostic]

87. wrong. absolutely wrong. Her list is subject to growth

and editing. Besides, it skips her biggest target: Barack Obama.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

163. That particular list was seen and re-seen by millions and used for fundraising. Its massive

distribution is evidenced by its success: 90 percent of the Democrats on it were replaced by Republicans during the nmidterms. Only Nick Rahall (WV3) faces EXACTLY the same threat Gabby Giffords faced--election survival after more than eight months on Sarah Palin's hitlist, followed by the possible seeking of the"Second Amendment Remedies" Sharron Angle gaffed about in her Senate race against Harry Reid (D-NV).

Like Giffords, Rahall ALONE has faced and is facing "The ballot or the bullet", after millions of high-cost advertising impressions targeted to the certifiably armed insane as well as to the presumably sane.

[tavalon]

83. Sarah Crosshairs Palin

[ChairmanAgnostic]

89. she earned it.

she can keep it.

[RoccoR5955]

85. And the Right Wingnuts are right there

Stating that the guy was a Liberal, and it is the Left's fault.
Pitiful!

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[superduperfarleft]

101. "Obama has caused more hate and anger in 2 years than I have seen in many many years. "

Oh, so ignore the crowd that spent all summer bringing guns to political rallies, putting bricks through the windows of congresspeople who voted for HCR, turning town hall events into screaming matches, and shrieking about "blood of tyrants," and their media figureheads that crow about "second amendment solutions" and "reloading." After all that, it's got to be Obama's fault that unhinged, right-wing nuts are gunning people down with alarming regularity.

Makes perfect sense. :eyes:

[RoccoR5955]

171. The only thing that they are bugged about is

That Obama is not white. Don't kid yourself, it's all about race.

[Kurmudgeon]

103. Idiotic statements caused this, crickket. The Right reaped what they sowed.

I see how you used the "shove it down our throats" imagery, sounds like you have some anger issues, just like Jared.

[NewJeffCT]

111. of course

so, it's up to people like us to push back & make sure the info about Giffords' opponent holding a shooting contest targeting her, or her being a Congressional rep that was targeted by Sarah Palin...

[PhillySane]

88. America's Love of Guns, Sarah Palin the Centerfold

Sadly, it is the combination of an insane gun culture (driven by the gun business) and an immature media whore who helps make it even sexier to the public, that helps fuel and eventually cause these types of murders. It has gotten to the point that we don't even look twice when someone like Palin uses these images and this type of rhetoric. Its a dangerous mix. Unfortunately, there are already way too many guns out there, and yes, they are going to fall into the hands of unstable minds who will not be able to discern the images and rhetoric they hear as only that, but rather, perceive them as a call to arms. In fact, if we were true to our words, this gentleman had a constitutional right to have this weapon, and since its only a matter of personal political philosophy, why shouldn't he use it against his captors, his oppressors, the government? Isn't that what the 2nd amendment is all about?

[florida08]

95. good

as someone who professes christianity then uses the graphics of a scoped rifle on names of other state candidates she wants gone she should be castigated until she concedes it was wrong and apologize. She is the queen of hypocrisy. What business is it of hers to get involved in state elections? This graphic suggests for those loyal to her to watch the outcomes. If they don't turn out the way she want then the alternative comes into play. That ignorant self serving queen of the dim witted inciting people to "reload" is a security issue in itself.

[PhillySane]

102. she's a terrorist

[florida08]

104. can we use

extroadinary rendition on her? What's ironic is what Congresswoman Giffords said about this:

Giffords expressed similar concern, even before the shooting. In an interview after her office was vandalized, she referred to the animosity against her by conservatives, including Sarah Palin's decision to list Giffords' seat as one of the top "targets" in the midterm elections.

"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with MSNBC.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110109/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot

[superduperfarleft]

105. Don't forget Tom Perriello, another of Sarah's "targets."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34934.html

"Law enforcement authorities are investigating the discovery of a cut propane gas line at the Virginia home of Rep. Thomas Perriello’s (D-Va.) brother, whose address was targeted by tea party activists angry at the congressman’s vote for the health care bill.

An aide to the congressman confirmed to POLITICO that a line to a propane tank behind his brother's home near Charlottesville had been sliced. "

"POLITICO reported on Monday that Mike Troxel, an organizer for the Lynchburg Tea Party, posted on his blog what he thought was the congressman’s address, encouraging tea party activists to “drop by.”"


This was the guy who's supposed home address was posted on the website of some local teabagger nut, but it turned out to be his brother's.

[totodeinhere]

112. Markos from Daily Kos also had Rep. Giffords on a "target" list.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568

Who to primary? Well, I'd argue that we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week. I've bolded members of the Blue Dogs for added emphasis.

Then under the text I quoted he had a list of Democratic House and Senate members that he wanted to "target." Rep. Giffords' name appeared on his list in bold.

So should we also criticize Marcos as well as Palin?

Look, the shooter was a madman. And yes there are plenty of crazies on the right. We all know that. But if progressives are going to have any credibility was need to make a fair analysis of this situation. Merely using the word "target" does not necessarily mean advocating a shooting. I am sure that Marcos did not mean that but perhaps Palin didn't either. I do think that her use of a map with cross hairs on it was beyond the pale however.

[superduperfarleft]

113. But Sarah didn't just use the word "target."

I don't see crosshairs anywhere on that kos journal. And it's not the lefties showing up to Dem rallies with guns slung over their shoulder, screaming about the blood of tyrants. You don't get the difference?

[totodeinhere]

118. Of course there is a difference. No two situations are alike. But...

the OP specifically referred to Palin's use of the phrase "target list." I think it's only fair to point out that Marcos also used that same phrase.

Let me ask you. Was it also wrong for Marcos to use that phrase?

[superduperfarleft]

119. People have referred to "targeting" certain political races before.

That's not inflammatory on its own. It's the combination of crosshairs that makes it creepy on Sarah's part.

No, Marcos was not wrong to use "target" in that context.

[truth2power]

130. Context is everything. So, say I head-up a program

to "target" pregnant teens in my school district, so they can be assured pre-natal care, nutrition information etc.

I could say, "This program targets pregnant teens, etc....

Doesn't mean I want to kill them.

Target: Something viewed as an object to be acted on with a view to transforming it. A goal.

The crosshairs and "lock and reload" changes the whole context.

[1American]

114. Fox New Condemns--but with a grin

Palin, Beck, Limbaugh.....advocates of "Second Amendment Solutions". Heros of the evangelical violent right-wing Christian fanatics.

[1American]

115. Cross-hairs Palin

INSTANT response from Fox News that this was not a politically motivated attack.....even before they knew who the shooter was.

Those of you who are Christians need to let your radical evangelical brothers and sisters know that they cannot and will not get away with advocating violence because the President is a black man,aka "socialist, communist, leftist, Maoist, Stalinist" etc.

THEY are equal to Nazi Hitlerites.

[Kurmudgeon]

123. 1American, I can see your anti-Christian bias plainly.

I'm a Christian, have never supported right wing values. Do you think that any Fox zombie or any other right wing zealot will listen to me?
I'll tell you up front, they don't. And they don't follow Christ's teachings either when they bear false witness and stir up the violent, so you may want to put your bias away in this situation.

[olegramps]

116. Don't think for a moment that Palin's admirers aren't celebrating this morning.

They won't be happy until they have murdered every progressive in the nation. Palin is a cancerous lesion on the asshole of America.

[efhmc]

121. They have what they asked for and want more.

[SocialprogressiveIL]

122. Calm down

First of all, she was hardly progressive. Second, to claim that all Palin supporters want to murder progressives is ridiculous. Saying something like that makes you just as guilty of the inflammatory rhetoric you claim to despise. Enough of the hypocrisy, on BOTH sides. Now is a time to hope for everyone's recovery and to apprehend and prosecute those responsible. At a later time we'll address the rhetoric at which time BOTH sides will need to calm down.

[mommalegga]

129. Exactly. Has anyone offered ANY evidence that this

pot-head was influenced by Sarah Palin? ANY?! Heck the rush to try to pin anything on Palin looks foolish and desperate. It will only make her look like a "victim" of a smear, garnering her more sympathy...just wait and see...

[BobbyBoring]

134. Pot Head???

Any evidence of that?

[mommalegga]

165. Yes. Pothead..

He was arrested for possessing grug paraphanelia;
http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13811377

People who knew him said he smoked:
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jared-lee-loughner-profile,0,3468158.story

He was an atheist

He was a "Truther"..

Hardly the profile of a Palin loving Tea Bagger..

Hell there is more proof "reefer madness" is to blame than some stupid targets on a map with zilch evidence that it had anything to do with it. Of course the average person when presented with the facts of this guys background will see what nonsense this Palin bashing is and only garner her more sympathy. Youd think the mouth foamers would have learned this already.

[fascisthunter]

158. Lol... it's been confirmed... he admired Palin and the Tea Party

I'm sure he listened to numerous right wing garbage before flipping out and killing folks. Too much evidence is already out there for anyone to ignore.

[bbgrunt]

148. ....At a later time......NO. Sarah Palin is only

the most directly connected to this particular incident by virtue of her crosshairs map. We've had plenty of time to address the travesties of people like Coulter--who believes the only good liberal is a dead one--and o'reilly who screamed "baby killer tiller" 1001 times over the airwaves, and beck and others who think hunting liberals is a sport. Enough is enough.

It is not time to "calm down" and think rationally and wait for all the info. It is time to call for remedies to media that support these kind of people--NOW.

[mommalegga]

167. Show me how the map is connected to the shooter then

you may be on to something. Did he have the map in his room? Did he talk about the map? Did he attend tea party rallies? Did he have a Palin bumper sticker? Was he registered Republican? Did he work for Palins campaign? Was he a member of a right wing web forum? Is there any evidence this map had any impact on him?

Any?

Or was he just a very mentally unstable person?

[bbgrunt]

176. and very mentally unstable people are not influenced by the media vitriol?

you seem to be missing the point.

[mommalegga]

180. I suppose so,

But my point is, what evidence is there that THIS person was influenced by Sarah Palins target map?

All that we know about this clown points to the fact that he is an unstable dopehead. Hardly a teabagger.

So until someone can show a Palin connection, I reserve judgement...Its a rational thinking thing, I cant help myself.

If we want to get into wether the right or left is involved in vitriol, for every RW vitriolic statement, we can find a LW equivalent. So the
left braying about vitriolic should be reminded that those who live in glass houses ought not throw stones.

[bbgrunt]

182. Anyone who parrots the false equivalence of rightwing

and left wing vitriol is obviously on the wrong website. goodbye.

[mommalegga]

184. Oh my!

Arent we a bit dogmatic!

But maybe your right, The Left has NEVER said anything hateful! And if they did, insane people know better than to be influenced by Left wing nastiness, only right wing nastiness! Thanks for setting me straight. :sarcasm:

No wonder people are so fed up with politics and tune out and dont vote, causing Dem losses when there ought not to be since we have the numbers...They are fed up with the bullshit.

[olegramps]

161. I guess that you never attended one of her or the Tea Baggers rallies.

I did an I hear people calling for the death of Obama. I heard the N word yelled. I have attended numerous Democratic Party functions and have never heard any thing like what I have heard. Maybe you should get yourself informed about what is going on rather than providing a ignorantly inspired lecture to someone who has taken out time to actually attend some of the right wing fanatics events.

[mommalegga]

181. Question is, did this shooter?

I have never attended a tea party rally, not my thing (obviosuly) But if you want to see calls for death of poitical at rallies, I would be more than willing to show you links to pics during rallies in the Bush years....Pot meet kettle...

edit for grammar

[olegramps]

183. Show them. I want to see them now.

[truth2power]

124. They're on-message already this morning...

On MTP, Congressman Labrador (R-ID), saying "both sides...both sides...both sides." No, Congressman, BOTH sides are not running around posting lists or maps with individuals in the crosshairs. BOTH sides are not shooting people to death in churches and shopping malls.

Later, Congressman Labrador, painting Laughton as some sort of reclusive, mentally-ill malcontent (Oh, and the word "anti-semitic" was used by someone on that program. Yeah, that's what this is about!) Labrador stated that Laughton had "said" controversial things about the government.

Do you all see where this is going? Do you see the lateral shift, here? By Wednesday we will all be guilty (and thus, no one will be guilty) of perpetrating these horrific acts. There. All better, now.

Sarah Palin's "lock and reload" and "crosshairs" rhetoric is a dog-whistle if I ever heard one. No, wait....It's not a dog-whistle; it's one of those high-powered, ear splitting whistles that campers carry in case they get lost in the woods. And it has the intended effect.

Every time. EVERY. TIME. they start this crap, we need to repudiate it.

* * * *

And BTW...where's the list of acts of violence perpetrated by the followers of Glen Beck and his ilk?

[nxylas]

136. No, we won't *all* be guilty

That would involve teabaggers admitting their own guilt, and we all know that personal responibility is something they like to preach...for other people. By Wednesday, the meme will be (if it isn't already) "How *dare* you suggest that this shooting had anything to do with the Tea Party movement! By exploiting this tragedy for political gain, liberals have shown that there are no depths to which they won't stoop. America would be better off without such people, nudge nudge, wink wink, know what I mean?"

[truth2power]

173. No, I think it'll be both. They'll continue with the "both sides" excuse, but

if someone calls them on it and says they're at least partially responsible, they'll still say none of this is their fault.

I know, it makes no sense. But the baggers aren't troubled by logic.

[rayofreason]

143. You are not correct...

...as a read of this post will demonstrate.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568

From the post:

Well, I'd argue that we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week. I've bolded members of the Blue Dogs for added emphasis.... this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district.

Giffords' name is bolded on a list of "targeted" blue-dogs.

Much of the overheated hyperventilation on progressive sites will boomerang since there are plenty of examples of strong or even intemperate rhetoric coming from the left. I have nothing against the DailyKos post - representatives can and should be held accountable for their votes. I also do not believe in blanket restrictions what strong language can and cannot be used, or who can be attacked and mocked and who cannot (I am a South Park and a 1st amendment fan). And what if it turns out that the shooter had visited dailykos.com? Or the DU? Would you want someone tarring those sites as "terrorist" because a psychotic visited them?

Regarding church shootings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Colorado_YWAM_and_New_Life_shootings

Should the shooter's hatred of christians, who he blamed for the worlds problems, be used as a cudgel against progressives who have an antipathy toward religion, especially christianity? I have certainly read many rants here on the DU that, taken out of context, could be used to support such a ludicrous campaign.

To those who want to make this rampage a political point for their side, they should look in a mirror to see the enemy. Sometimes horrible crimes are just that - no political motivation that has a connection to reality, such as the Colorado murders. The Manson murders were "political" in that he wanted to start a race war, but the reality is that those crimes were generated in the deep recesses of a psychotic mind and were not truly political. We have yet to learn many important things about this event - particularly if there was someone else involved and, if so, their motivation. Until then what we have is a deeply disturbed young man who went on a rampage. Nothing more.

In politics it always is wise to ask "what if the tables were turned?" For example, if you have a majority in the Senate it is a great temptation to weaken the filibuster - but no majority lasts for ever. I saw one post yesterday on the DU that lamented that the GOP had not been banned when the Democrats "had the chance" with a big majority in Congress. What an idiot. The worm turns, and what is good for the goose must be good for the gander. So those who are making all kinds of wild allegations invoking distal and tenuous connections might find such statements come back to bite them, especially as more information come to light.

[South End Liberal]

133. Can we set the political mud throwing aside for now?

Right now, we know little about the shooter. So called experts on multiple networks are now saying that the shooter believed in a coming world government. He talked a lot about a new currency, about literacy. He read a wide range of books including Alice in Wonderland, but I don't see anyone screaming it's Alice's fault.

Seeing the media and BOTH sides of the aisle use this tragedy for political gain or pushing certain agendas is sickening to me.

[Spyderama]

135. The Palin Matrix

If only more people would read The Palin Matrix and learn what this despicable woman has always been about, maybe we could begin to turn our nation in a direction away from this madness.

[PavePusher]

141. Ahem....

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

Pot... Kettle. You two should get along just fine, yes?

[jerrybfisher]

142. Do Not Forget Her

Every person in America should wear a shirt or button with 
Christina-Taylor Green's picture and the words "Hugs Not
Thugs"

[bobzilla69]

145. Boycott TLC

They give Palin a free platform,I am contacting TLC to pull everything

[avaistheone1]

146. K&R

Sarah Palin's actions were outrageous and reckless.


:kick:


k&r

[shellgame26]

147. For Palin, there's no such thing as bad publicity

Anything good or bad that puts Palin in the spotlight makes her giddy with delight. Admit it Sarah, YOU'RE LOVING THIS!

[kd7gkn]

154. Incitement to commit murder is still a crime.

It doesn't make sense how so many people say that people using gun metaphors and calling for people to be gunned for metaphorically aren't responsible. Should we clear Hitler of the Holocaust just because he didn't turn the gas on?

[shellgame26]

177. I'm not sure

if or why you think I'm defending her.

[earcandle]

149. Palin needs to be held accountable for these murders, via her incitement map.

This is worse than what Hal Turner did, and he got convicted.

No free pass for this hate monger. 

[madmax]

155. Wonder what she thinks when she looks

at her daughter Piper, age 7. Does it compute - Christina Green - age 9, murdered because she stoked the flames of hate.

Think about that, Sarah.

[SocialprogressiveIL]

157. Speculation is not fact

I find Sarah Palin as awful as most of you do, but anyone here who claims they know that Sarah Palin's map was the motivation for this is flat out not telling the truth. We can speculate, but we have no idea. If people are venting, I get that, and I think places like this are important for that, but don't pass it off as fact. It's no more than wishful thinking at this point.

[forty6]

159. Imagine if it had been Sarah Palin that had been shot, and that a man with a ..

less than peaches and cream complexion had been apprehended as the shooter.

What would we have seen from the folks on the right wing? I shudder to think, we would be in lock-down curfews for all blacks and Hispanics and "Muslim-looking" middle easterners.

Armed militias would be patrolling our cities' streets, a national emergency would have been declared, and Keith Olbermann would be in GTMO.


That's the difference in equality American justice would show us.

[NeoConsSuck]

166. Sarah, that sucking sound you're hearing

is your career as a right wing hater being flushed down the toilet. Good riddance SKANK!

[Swampguana]

168. Palin is disgusting

[defendandprotect]

169. Imagine what we'd be hearing from rw if liberals had such a "target" list ... !!!

but the right wing can openly call for violence against their enemies ...

and, in fact, they have to because they can't respond without violence!!

[delightfulstar]

174. K&R, the Teabaggers and RWM have the proverbial "blood on their hands."

The only agenda that's promoted in an act like this is that guns will somehow solve social issues. Well, Palin and Angle and their lot are wrong - the Second Amendment does not condone taking the life of another in this way. This was no act of self-defense, it was an act of cowardice, provoked by the words of radicals. There are more constructive ways to get one's point across, and shooting up a crowd of people is not one of them. If the RWM is still so worried about the terrorist issue, maybe they should start looking from within our borders, because as we were shown yesterday, there are plenty of misguided people who are right here on our soil.

Again, peace to all of those who were affected by this senseless act yesterday. Our thoughts are with you.

[workinclasszero]

178. The reich wing loons are RELOADING now

Just following orders from the killa from Wasilla.

Wonder who is next on Palin's hit list?

[theyne]

179. A great blog that shows RW rhetoric that led to shooting

Check out Josh Horwitz Blog that shows the history of the RW insurrectionist rhetoric that lead to the horrific mass shooting in Tuscon:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x153766

[TK421]

185. I guarantee you someone, somewhere has this map along with a bucket of push-pins

in their basement...fingers trembling

[Roundtree65]

186. Don't you think the OTT reaction helps Palin?

This sort of hysteria may just make her supporters feel more sympathy for her, and make them more loyal.