Man carrying machine gun opens fire at Dutch shopping mall, 5 reported dead

[Bosonic]

Source: BNO News

ALPHEN AAN DEN RIJN, NETHERLANDS (BNO NEWS) — A gunman opened fire inside a shopping mall in the Netherlands on early Saturday afternoon, police said, while witnesses told local media that at least 5 people had been killed.




Read more: http://www.headlinerwatch.com/22620/update-3-man-carrying-machine-gun-opens-fire-dutch-shopping-mall-5-reported-dead.htm

[Judi Lynn]

1. Only a couple of days after a man killed 20 kids in Rio, also.The sickness has spread quickly.

There are a lot of us who grew up without ever hearing of any events like this.

It can't be viewed as forward progress of civilization.

[razorman]

2. Unfortunately, I don't believe it to be a sickness that is spreading.

That idea would necessarily indicate the possibility of a cure. I think situations like these are simply manifestations of human nature. We are animals. Being part of the animal kingdom, we are violent. However, we are one of very few species that prey on our own kind.
On the brighter side, though; as rational, thinking beings, we are capable of controlling those violent impulses, unlike other animals. I just we were better at controlling them. BTW, I include myself in that statement.

[rfranklin]

5. Yes, I remember that case of the hippos who sprayed the crocs with Uzis...

It terrorized the entire Zambesi River.

[Kolesar]

10. I was trying to think of a response to #2

But I can't top yours :spray:

[greiner3]

6. Why just imagine;

If he had had say a baseball bat he would have killed scores. A big knife and whole neighborhoods would have gone down. My gosh, can you just think what would have happened if this guy would have been carrying a chain saw. mass mayhem on the scale of Fukishama.

That's it! Everyone by law has to carry their own chain saw in order to keep the peace and protect their own personal freedom.

[eqfan592]

9. Wow, way to miss the boat on the above posters point...

...and instead spew a lot of garbage.

[hack89]

11. 21 kids murdered and 90 hurt by knives in mass school attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Chinese_school_attacks

on edit: changed the number of kids from 11 to 21

[blondeatlast]

15. Oh, really? what part of "uncoordinated" missed you?

The 2010 Chinese school attacks were a series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People's Republic of China beginning in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 21 dead and some 90 injured.

That was on looooong school shooting to leave 21 dead--like, from March to August.

That info comes from your own source.

[hack89]

17. 9 killed in one incident, 8 in another

just pointing out that guns are not the only instrument of mass murder - knives and other tools are just as deadly.

[donquijoterocket]

20. true enough but

firearms allow you to commit that degree of mayhem at a remove where the others require you to get up close and personal. Mayhem is still committed,but usually in smaller numbers and over a smaller area.
There's a malfunction inhuman reasoning that allows one to conclude impersonal violence is a solution to anything.

[Upton]

18. Home invasion by man wielding a chainsaw..

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/03/22/police-deerfield-woman-escapes-chain-saw-intruder/

I guess we must need some "reasonable restrictions" place upon the owners of chainsaws..

Luckily, in this case, the woman escaped by jumping off her balcony. She would have been much better served however, had she been armed and prepared to protect herself.

[WatsonT]

45. The only alternative to a gun is a knife or bat?

If I recall a young man with the surname "McVeigh" did alright without a gun.

[octothorpe]

78. or someone driving a vehicle through a busy mall or a school yard.

While I'm not someone who thinks everyone should be armed. I actually wish the US wasn't as gun worshiping as it is, but I don't think removing guns would prevent crazy shit like this. Blah, I'm doing the thing I hate the most. I'm talking about the US in a news story that took place elsewhere.

[movonne]

13. There is a sickness going around the world...we see too much

killing...constant wars...the political bickering,etc.

[PavePusher]

100. Those things have always existed.

The new factor is this nifty thing called the "internet" that lets you know about all of it, all the time, immediately.

[Darth_Kitten]

16. +1

:(

[hack89]

3. Spreading from where? nt

[gejohnston]

4. no

Just the news of it.

[Posteritatis]

7. A lot of you grew up without ubiquitous and easy access to news

To say nothing of news' obsession with calamity.

[hack89]

8. They were happening - you just never heard about them

24 hour news and the internet have made the world a smaller place. Don't forget that in America, violent crime is at historic lows. You have to go back to 1960 to find a higher murder rate. The honest position is that you have never been safer from violent crime in your entire life.

[right2bfree]

74. More guns=More gun deaths. Not rocket science. Less guns=less crimes.

[octothorpe]

79. People don't commit crimes because they have guns.

If there were no guns people will use other 'tools' at their disposal. That's why there was crime before the invention of guns. Although, if the authorities were the only ones with guns, it would help prevent people from going up against places where they were present. However, that would require constant armed authority everywhere. I'm pretty sure most people do not like that idea.

[right2bfree]

98. People in Europe have no real problems with not having guns everywhere. Fact!

[hack89]

81. Wrong - In America murder is at historic lows and still declining

while gun ownership skyrockets.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

[Judi Lynn]

84. That was implicit. Of course I meant this didn't happen when every half-wit wasn't armed.

Why would that not be absolutely clear?

[RSillsbee]

85. Then why is gun ownership at an all time high

and crime at a 40 year low?

[Betty Karlson]

96. Because more people belonged to the middle class

Those who have something to lose are less likely to risk all. With the current recession hurting any and all people (except the very, very rich), we will soon regret all that gun ownership. There will be way too many people who have nothing to lose.

[right2bfree]

97. Exactly!!!

[PavePusher]

101. Cite to evidence, if you please... n/t

[PavePusher]

99. Are you trying to say that things like this never happened in the past?

Or could it be that instantaneous communication and a wired world population now mean that everthing becomes public knowledge around the world in seconds?

[Turbineguy]

12. It's now 6 including the shooter

11 wounded of which 4 seriously.

Identity of the shooter not yet known.

[Betty Karlson]

14. Listening to the Dutch reports,

one word stands out: Calm, measured response. At the moment this man shot his gun all through the mall, all shop managers brought their customers to the back, helped the wounded, closed their anti-burglary shields, etcetera.

Everybody is shocked, no-one is calling for heavier punishment or more guns. And this from a city with big inner city ethnic tensions.

Anyone still claiming that the best response is another gun is out of their mind. How would another round of bullets have made this situation any better? Even more saliant is, the Dutch gun laws have been loosened a bit just months ago. Interesting: you imitate one thing from America, you get another thing (mass murder) as well.


EDIT: The suicidal mass murderer is a young caucasian man with short-cropped hair, by the way, who was dressed in grey military apparel with a bomber-jack. In the Netherlands, this means the guy was probably a neo-nazi. Motive as yet unknown.

[hack89]

19. If he had an automatic what he did is illegal in America as well as the Netherlands

Automatic weapons are just as tightly controlled here as they are there.

[Betty Karlson]

22. Not sure if it was an automatic.

The reports are not clear. Some speak of a large handgun, some of a semi-automatic weapon.

Listening to an eye-witness report (from the man who took the gun from the shooter's hands), it would seem to be a handgun, nothing automatic.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. The mayor says it was an automatic weapon

Mayor Bas Eenhoorn called the incident "unprecedented" for the town of about 70,000 people.

He said four of the injured were in a critical condition and five had serious wounds.

"A man with an automatic weapon, whose identity we cannot reveal, started shooting and killed five people and then himself," the mayor said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13024785

[Betty Karlson]

26. Perhaps there really were two shooters, then.

Because the man who took the weapon from the dead shooters hands is positive it was a large hand-gun.

[DutchLiberal]

30. The man had his own handgun with which he killed himself, police said.

[Betty Karlson]

32. are handguns automatic, then?

I know nothing of these weapons. Perhaps that's part of the confusion for a lot of the eyewitnesses as well.

[DutchLiberal]

34. As far as I know, the shooter had an automatic gun with which he shot indiscriminately at people...

killing 5 people, wounding at least 12. Then he pulled another gun, a handgun, and shot himself, according to multiple eye-witnesses.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[guruoo]

59. They can be...

Glock 298 rounds in full auto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI
Glock 18C Fully Automatic Pistol Demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T77oVIRcVg

[DutchLiberal]

28. Unfortunately, lots of people on the news are referring to this as "American practices".

They call it an "un-Dutch" situation. Which I think is nonsense, simply because it *did* happen here, but they mean something like this has never happened here before and people immediately think about the US, e.g. the Columbine or Virginia Tech shootings.

[Dappleganger]

83. Evil is evil...

it knows no country's boundaries.

[DutchLiberal]

87. Oh, I agree. It's just used as an expression by people to indicate we're not used to this kind of ..

horrible events.

[WatsonT]

47. " Everybody is shocked, no-one is calling for heavier punishment or more guns. "

Are they calling for stricter gun laws? Are they asking what is so wrong with their culture that allows such things to occur?

If not then they are treating this better than we would have.

If this were here it'd be nothing but "what's wrong with our culture?" and "we need more laws to feel safe!"

[Betty Karlson]

50. I think everyone is still waiting for all facts to become known

reserving judgement until they know what they are talking about. By the same token, the Home Minister has declared himself available, in case the mayor needs help, but not imposing his help.

The queen and prime-minister have sent their condolences, by the way: no judgement, only commiseration.

[WatsonT]

53. If they're waiting for the facts to come out

then they are definitely handling it better than we would.

Any shooting here is immediately followed up with rampant speculation and condemnation of the entire culture and our laws.

[DutchLiberal]

55. Well, there *is* a strong outcry from the public for tougher punishments and more restrictive laws..

But that predates this horrible event. That has been something that's been going on for almost a decade now, exploited and promoted by the right-wing parties.

[WatsonT]

58. Currently the Dutch have stronger laws against such things

than we do.

Obviously that didn't help.

[DutchLiberal]

62. I meant there's an outcry for more severe punishments and less restrictions on the police...

You know, like you have in the US.

[WatsonT]

63. So prior to this they desired to move towards what we have

but did not do so.

So it's our fault that this happened because they in fact did not copy our laws?

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Betty Karlson]

68. This is a baseless twisting of his words. Stop it.

No seriously: stop it. There is no call for that. Enough.

[WatsonT]

70. Not at all

I suggest you look in to the context before you get too offended.

Person A makes a statement. I respond to it. Person B jumps in to defend Person As argument. It is safe to assume then that Person B at least is somewhat in agreement with Person A. To be sure and avoid giving offense I give Person B a chance to clarify their views and distance themself from Person As argument. They do not do so.

[PavePusher]

102. Why would it have been a bad thing for this lunatic to have been stopped.....

after shooting only 2 or 3 people instead of more? Would that have been "better" or not? If not, why?

[Betty Karlson]

107. First of all:

When you say "stopped" do you mean "killed"?

Second: He shouldn't have had that gun in the first place. Why did he have to have that gun? Why did he have a permit? As soon as you loosen gun restrictions, more dangerous guys like him get more hands on more guns. The less people have these things, the better, because the chance of a nut getting through the system is less.

Third: two rounds of bullets mean two rounds of bullets can ricochet through the mall. What if someone tries to stop him, fails, and the scene turns into a frontline?

Fourth: "only" 2 or 3 people? You have got to be kidding me.

[PavePusher]

109. Point by point:

1. No, I mean "stopped", as in he doesn't shoot any more people. Whether that is by his surrender, wounding to the point of incapacitation, or death, matters not at all, as long as he is stopped.

2. Because Homo Sapiens does not have a well developed precognitive ability. If you can read the future reliably for individuals, please step up to the job.

3. Your wording is very confusing, but I assume you mean "crossfire" and "gun fight". So what? If the perpetrator is pinned down, he can't walk around shooting more people. Random shots are less likely to hit a victim than aimed shots. And you seem to assume that a defensive shooter justs blasts wildly and randomly away. Sorry, it doesn't seem to happen that way.

4. You are the one who implied that leaving the criminal to continue on his way was the preferable option. I think it would be better if he was prevented from increasing his body count. Just one mans opinion....

[Betty Karlson]

111. This is spin, not response. n/t

[PavePusher]

112. How so?

I directly addressed each of your points. How is this "spin"?

[Betty Karlson]

21. Make that 26 wounded... n/t

[Betty Karlson]

77. Correction: 16 wounded

One of whom has now died.

The tragic victims of today:

7 dead (including the shooter)

3 critically wounded

7 others severely wounded but stable

5 more wounded, who will surely survive

[Betty Karlson]

23. Yet one more update:

Police are seriously considering the possibility that this guy acted in co-operation with others. A racist gang, that is. There are even reports of TWO culprits, not one.

[DutchLiberal]

25. Absolute nonsense. The police are almost 100% sure the shooter acted alone.

There is no motive known. Racism would be extremely far-fetched, as this guy was shooting indiscriminately for about 15 minutes, reloading several times, according to eyewitnesses.

This is the last I have heard from the press conference just an hour ago.

[Betty Karlson]

27. source?

These are the ones I saw: http://www.rtl.nl/xl/#/u/dff9642b-2b11-497a-8da4-db94577bf2d1/

[DutchLiberal]

29. Like I just said: Dutch tv news & press conference by mayor & police.

[Betty Karlson]

31. And yet other malls have been evacuated.

Seems that no chance is being taken.

[DutchLiberal]

33. That struck reporters as strange, as well. Mayor said that was decided after they already knew...

the shooter was alone. Why they decided to close other malls is yet unknown.

[Betty Karlson]

35. Combine that with the conflicting reports on

the shooter's looks (either long blond hair or short-cropped blond hair, either with or without a bomber-jack) and the different descriptions of the weapon (automatic or not) and you can see why reports of two shooters keep springing up.

[DutchLiberal]

38. Yep, but that's bound to happen when you have so many witnesses.

It happens in every case. People have to flee for their lives, and in the spur of the moment, they're not observing everything right and later, memory adds things that they haven't even seen to make the picture complete.

[DutchLiberal]

36. Update: mayor just said police found a note written by the shooter in his car, which led them to ...

evacuate the other malls. He couldn't say anything more about the substance of the note. Meanwhile the official story is still: one shooter, male, white, known to the police (not known what for).

[Betty Karlson]

37. Known to the police?

In a weird way, that is reassuring. If someone known to the police is said to act on his own, the police are bound to know (better) what they are talking about.

[DutchLiberal]

39. There are rumors the shooter has had drugs-related problems, but this is unconfirmed.

[Betty Karlson]

40. That would explain the car

The guy had a black Mercedes, one of the new models.

(Source: one of the pictures on NOS.nl)

[Judi Lynn]

86. Thanks for the update, DutchLiberal. n/t

[DutchLiberal]

88. NEW UPDATE: the note said there are explosives in three other shopping malls...

That's why they were evacuated. The police is still searching those, but it has not been said whether or not they found anything yet. This was said at a press conference earlier this night.

[Judi Lynn]

90. Really! This is getting even crazier. Hope there won't be more injuries.

More explosives could mean he could continue to harm people after he's dead, himself. Really awful.

[DutchLiberal]

91. People living in flats surrounding the malls have been evacuated as long as searching continues...

[Betty Karlson]

41. Death toll going up:

one of the four critically injured has died. Death toll now at seven.

To be honest, I'm starting to worry at this point, as one of my friends in Alphen is still not answering his phone.

[Duer 157099]

42. 6 killed, 11 wounded in Dutch mall shooting

Source: Associated Press

ALPHEN AAN DEN RIJN, Netherlands — A gunman opened fire with an automatic weapon at a crowded shopping mall outside Amsterdam on Saturday, leaving at least six people dead and wounding 11 others, Dutch officials said.

The attacker was among the dead after fatally shooting himself at the Ridderhof mall in Alphen aan den Rijn, Mayor Bas Eenhoorn said. The suburb is less than 15 miles (25 kilometers) southwest of Amsterdam.

...

"You hear about this sort of thing happening at American schools and you think that's a long way away," said Rob Kuipers, 50, a project manager. "Now it's happened here in the Netherlands."

Read more: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110409/WIRE/110409414/1350?Title=-6-killed-11-wounded-in-Dutch-mall-shooting

[WatsonT]

43. This is the 2nd incident we've heard of in as many days that "only happen in America"

Perhaps the rest of the world needs to spend less time looking at us and more time in self-reflection.

[Betty Karlson]

46. One word: Hollywood

America wants to be watched, wants the world to see its exceptionalism. How many guns were pulled in Hollywood's latest budget booster?

[WatsonT]

48. Hollywood wants to make money

And I can't think of any artist who doesn't want a bigger audience.

We'd be seeing more European/African/Asian/etc movies if they had something comparable to Hollywood.

It's not about national pride, we're just better at it than most and it's one of our exports.

And you may notice a bit of violence in movies coming out of China and Europe as well.

[Betty Karlson]

49. For some reason, violence is assumed

to be the only language everyone can understand. Hence the filmmakers' inclination to include it in their blockbusters.

[WatsonT]

51. Well that and sex

there are a few things we're all keyed in to. Violence and sex appeal to everyone at a basic level.

Whereas a movie about cultural mores either a comedy or drama will be more limited in it's appeal.

The social changes in Japan and friction between traditional and modern culture might be great fodder for movies there, but won't resonate in the rest of the world. Just for example.

Whereas you don't need an in depth appreciation of the culture to understand a severed head, or tits, or explosions.

[DutchLiberal]

54. Hollywood's movie are more popular; they're not better.

Most of Hollywood's output is sequel upon sequel, remake upon remake, totally predictable action movies, cliched romantic comedies etc.

They don't have the authentic and genuine storytelling ability most other national cinemas have.

[WatsonT]

57. Quality of movies is an objective statement

you want to say others are better, fine. It's a matter of opinion that cannot be proven either way.

My statement however was on their ability to export movies as a commodity. And in that regard we are objectively better are producing movies.

[DutchLiberal]

61. You're not better at producing movies; you're better at selling them.

[WatsonT]

64. Wow, ok, you're not getting this

you feel the need to claim all American movies are crap and all other movies are amazing and deep and clever. Fine, whatever. I frankly don't care and it's not the topic at hand.

All I said was that we're better at exporting them so foreigners are going to see more American movies than we are going to see of theirs.

And indeed foreigners are going to see more American movies than they are going to see most other foreign movies.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[octothorpe]

80. Well, there is far more output from Hollywood.

Since there is more coming out, there is going to be far more crap mixed in. Hollywood does sometimes get it right though. Although, I suppose getting it right is subjective. I'm not going to be pretentious and act like my preferences are the "right" way.

Also, since hollywood hits tend to not only do well in the US, but in other countries as well, maybe my getting it right isn't in line with the rest of the world.

I'm filled with so much self-doubt. I should just give up.

[PavePusher]

103. Can you cite to a study that can link violence in media....

to violence in real life?

IIRC, that myth has been repeatedly destroyed.

[melm00se]

105. let's use some numbers

to analyze your statement:

How many guns were pulled in Hollywood's latest budget booster?

Top 20 Grossing Movies 2010
Toy Story
Alice in Wonderland
Iron Man 2*
The Twilight Saga: Eclipse
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1
Inception*
Despicable Me
Shrek Forever After
How to Train Your Dragon
Tangled
The Karate Kid
Tron Legacy
True Grit*
Clash of the Titans
Grown Ups
Little Fockers
Megamind
The King's Speech
The Last Airbender
Shutter Island
(*) contained the use of firearms

hmmmm.....3 of 20 films contain firearm usage.

[Betty Karlson]

106. Now please also note

Some of these films were targeted at young children.

And now count how many of the above films (specifically those targeted at an adolencent and young adult audience) contained violence comparable with fire arms:

* Alice in wonderland (beheading, explosions)
* Harry Potter (wands with fiery blazes)
* Karate Kid (let's break some bones)
* Clash of the Titans (ancient mythology - use swords, not fire arms, but nevertheless kill kill kill)
* Last airbender (throwing fire balls is not using fire arms?)

anyone know about the other movies? Never mind: we are already at 8 out of 20 that contain the idea that hurting people with weapons is good.

[melm00se]

108. OMG

So we should eliminate ALL references to ALL conflict be it physical, emotional or psychological in nature?

If so then out goes:

The Adventures of Huck Finn (murder)
All Quiet on the Western Front (war)
Brave New World (suicide, intense emotional conflict)
The Call of the Wild (animal fighting and murder)
The Three Musketeers
and many many others.

Conflict is one of the traits of classic stories.

[Betty Karlson]

110. The question is how functional

the level of violence, fire, explosions, is to the movie's narrative. And Hollywood is going for the lowest common denominator, rather than portraying violence as a moral dilemma...

[DutchLiberal]

52. The number of shooting sprees in the US is far higher than in European countries...

In most European countries, this kind of shooting spree has 'only' happened once, or not at all. They are, however, a 'familiar' phenomenon in the US. I don't know why you would want to pick this tragic event to display your nationalism.

[WatsonT]

56. I suggest you educate yourself if you believe this is an American phenomenon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_murderers_and_spree_killers_by_number_of_victims

As I've mentioned before: this perception is more a factor of greater reporting about the US than actual numbers.

A shooting in the US gets worldwide attention for weeks. In Estonia? Maybe it's mentioned briefly.

And I brought up the US because it's mentioned in the article. Did you read it?

Also we're a much larger nation, we should have more such crimes.

But if you adjust for population you'll find that we have fewer mass killings than say Germany.

[DutchLiberal]

60. Where does that chart come from? It's not on Wikipedia page; it doesn't list statistics per country,

So what is the source for that?

I don't buy the 'media exposition' excuse. It happened this week in a school in Brazil and everybody was shocked and they are amazed it happened there. But when it happens in a school in the US, people are not surprised anymore. Simply because it happens a lot more over there.

[WatsonT]

66. The source is the far righwing, pro-gun, jingoisticly pro-American

Geneva Graduate institute of international studies: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/06/the_risk_from_guns.html

"I don't buy the 'media exposition' excuse. It happened this week in a school in Brazil and everybody was shocked and they are amazed it happened there. But when it happens in a school in the US, people are not surprised anymore. Simply because it happens a lot more over there."

Ahahahaha. Wow. That was a weak retort. "It can't be that it is reported on more here than elsewhere because we hear about these things far more here than elsewhere!".

Yeah what you just described is exactly what would happen when there is a significant difference in exposure rates.

I bet you believe that about 2 years back kidnapping rates in the US skyrocketed out of control what with all the reporting on various kidnappings.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Betty Karlson]

44. already at seven tragic deaths. see above. n/t

[SoapBox]

71. And the NRA will keep on pushing guns to all the crazies...

The lovely bunch of coconuts will want even MORE guns out there now.

Thanks NRA...and who usually gets killed or hurt? The innocents.

[WatsonT]

72. The NRA in the Netherlands is a powerful force indeed.

[PavePusher]

104. You forgot the sarcasm logo. Some people here need that pointed out to them.... n/t

[right2bfree]

76. Sadly, you are correct. nt

[right2bfree]

73. Too bad a "law-abiding" gun owner wasnt there to stop this carnage!! NOT!

[Betty Karlson]

82. The guy had a previous gun-related incident.

Threats, violence, and a fire weapon.

He was a member of a gun association. But as his case was dismissed (not known why), his gun licenses could not be withdrawn.

[DutchLiberal]

89. UPDATE: shooter's name is Tristan van der V.; 24 years old; left letter at mother's home...

It has not been made public what was in the letter. The prosecutor-general denied rumors that the mother and father of Tristan van der V. (we don't know his last name, since it's custom of Dutch media to not reveal last names of perpetrators) were among the victims.

Van der V. was a member of a rifle association and had therefore licenses to own several guns. It's of yet unclear if any of those have been used in the shooting. It has been denied that Van der V. was an ex-military man, as had been suggested.

[DutchLiberal]

92. UPDATE: Dutch public tv names shooter as 'Tristan van der Vlis'.

I read 'Tristan van der V.' on other websites. It's not customary for Dutch media outlets to fully name (alleged) perpetrators, though it has happened before in huge incidents (as with the assassinations of politician Pim Fortuyn and filmmaker Theo van Gogh).

[JI7]

93. what does it take to get a license to get those guns there ?

[DutchLiberal]

94. I honestly don't know. I do know gun laws are very strict in The Netherlands.

But there are some exceptions, like being a member of a 'shooting club' (where they do it for sports), but I couldn't tell you how that works and who does or doesn't qualify.

[Betty Karlson]

95. Police is still investigating the gun permits

automatic weapons are rarely convered by the permit. My guess would be he bluffed his way into buying the automatic handgun, having permits for five weapons and owning "just" three.

Incidentally: a court case against him (for illegal possession of weapons) was dismissed just eight years ago. Had that case gone through, he would have been banned from gun ownership for the rest of his miserable life.