In Letter, House Dems Tell Obama To Leave Social Security Alone (or risk losing their support)

[kpete]

Source: Talking Points Memo

In Letter, House Dems Tell Obama To Leave Social Security Alone
Brian Beutler | April 12, 2011, 6:20PM

House Democrats just sent a letter to President Obama warning him not to cut Social Security as part of the deficit reduction program he'll outline Wednesday, or risk losing their support.

"As you know, 137 members of the United States Congress signed a letter last year opposing any cuts to Social Security Benefits, including raising the retirement age," write Reps. John Conyers (D-MI) and Raul Grijalva (D-AZ), in a letter obtained by TPM.

"The signatories also stated their opposition to any effort to privatize Social Security, in whole or in part... we believe that any discussion of long-term debt issues must consider the strong fiscal integrity of Social Security--which is prohibited by law from adding to the national budget deficit and will have built a $4.3 trillion surplus by 2023."

We remain concerned that the Bowles-Simpson proposal may serve as a starting point for budget negotiations. We consider this plan to be flawed in several key areas, especially with respect to its proposed cuts to Social Security Benefits. We believe that any proposal that includes cuts to a popular, fiscally sound program lacks credibility and does not reflect the political center.



Read more: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/in-letter-house-dems-warn-obama-to-leave-social-security-alone.php?ref=fpblg

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http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/documents/2011/04/house-dems-remind-obama-dont-cut-social-security.php?page=1

[Vincardog]

1. IF he wants to 'FIX' Social Security he should raise the income limit and increase the COLA

[corpseratemedia]

12. +1

esp with the food and gas price gouging going on

[aggiesal]

13. He should also lower the retirement age ...

That will make more people eligible to retire,
open up jobs for younger workers to get off unemployment.

Killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

[Honeycombe8]

46. You know, that's a strategy that the Repubs use effectively.

They want such-and-such. They propose something more to the right and much more objectionable to the Democrats. Then they ultimately "settle" for something less, which is what they wanted all along. But what they "settle" for sounds much better, next to the far-right proposal that they seriously made. And the Dems fall for it every time.

We want SS retirement age to stay the same. The other side is proposing raising the retirement age (they just won't shut up about it). So......maybe the Dems should SERIOUSLY propose REDUCING the retirement age, and flood the airwaves with Dems talking about it. Ultimately, then...maybe, the Dems can "settle" for keeping the retirement age the same. The Repubs breathe a sigh of relief that the retirement age wasn't lowered, and the Dems get what they wanted all along!

Sounds like a plan!

[aggiesal]

54. Does sound like a plan

But, I really would like to see the retirement age lowered to 62 or 63.

Free up positions for younger workers constantly.

I'm sure there's an equation somewhere that shows that there are X number
of new workers coming of age, and that should equate to Y number of
workers reaching some retirement age.

In France, it was set to 60. They recently raised it to 62, and the
citizens went ballistic.

[jillan]

66. Wouldn't that be a nice change to actually have a strategy.

[wordpix]

73. like the repukes do

[Enthusiast]

167. And be in 'lock step'.

On this issue and medicare. Hey, I hate to quote that fucking W but 'They are either with us or against us.'

[SusanaMontana41]

217. Identical to the repukes, I'd say. n/t

[Enthusiast]

166. True enough.

Tired of being disappointed.

[russspeakeasy]

187. A strategy ? That's like a plan, right?

Never happen. A new big contributor comes in and you have to
have a new plan. Then a new bigger contributor comes in and
you have to have a new plan..but I do like your idea.

[U of M Dem]

83. I believe door-in-the-face technique...

is the term you are looking for.

It is very unethical to use manipulative persuasion tactics such as this to push policy, especially when the policy aims to de-construct infrastructure and worsen the lives of millions... but Republican ethics fail to surprise me any more.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

192. Ha! You wrote "Republican ethics" and I did a spit take. Thanks, needed the laugh.

And welcome to DU.

Which "M" is your "U"?

[stillwaiting]

137. The Dems are not that stupid. They don't fall for anything.

The reason the Repubs start negotiations with FAR-right positions and Democrats start with very centrist positions is that the final product ends up being right wing legislation that Wall Street and TPTB want to have passed. Any difference in the final product is a matter of very tiny degrees. No matter what results from this pattern of "negotiations" TPTB are sure to end up with a result that not only doesn't threaten them, but a result that BENEFITS them.

TPTB have rigged the game to always get their way and never be at risk of losing any sliver of their ever increasing share of the wealth and income pie in America.

It's no coincidence that things have worked this way since Reagan. It's the status quo, and it WILL be the status quo until we can unite as Americans and demand they stop it.

[No Elephants]

215. I so agree.

[PatSeg]

179. That's a great idea

The Dems need to stop being on the "defense" all the time. I wonder if they'll ever learn.

[gateley]

89. Many people of "retirement age", however, can't afford to retire. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

157. Not only that, but it would reduce the plans obligations to the retirees.

After all, in most careers people earn a little more each successive year. SS payments are reckoned by what the earning are. So, if someone retires at 60 earning 40k/yr his payments would be @1200/mo. If he retires at 67, and by then he's making 46k/yr, his SS payment would be 1300/mo (caveat: all numbers are strictly pulled from my ass - I'm talking about the trends, not about specific numbers, so please no disputes on that - feel free to argue against the concept, if you think it is in error but don't use my numbers which are not meant to be factual statements).

So, lowering the retirement age overall lowers SS payments, while at the same time allowing younger employees to move up the ladder faster, increasing their earnings and therefore the amounts they are paying into the system - helping ensure the system's solvency.

[aggiesal]

234. Wouldn't it be nice if ...

the cap on Social Security is lifted, and not have a cap, ever!!!

SS would have so much money that we could literally double the monthly payments
and the retirees could actually afford to retire. Or at least make the payments
similar to a workers yearly salary.

That would definitely allow workers reaching retirement age to actually retire.

Talk about a transfer of wealth.

[Athena66]

28. Right on!

Just take the cap off of Social Security withholding- how hard is that? That takes care of S.S. for many, many years. If they're worried about the rest of the deficit, raise taxes on the wealthy, tighten up the rules on corporate taxation so that companies like GE can't get away with paying no taxes, tax capital gains the same as income, get out of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, close at least half of our military bases here and overseas (and cut the DOD budget drastically). Create a guest worker program with a path to citizenship for foreign workers and downsize our Border Patrol accordingly. Seriously rethink our failed "War on Drugs" and decriminalize at least some of them (heck, legalize marijuana and tax it like liquor) and downsize the DEA.

[jaysunb]

98. I like it !

:hi:

[olegramps]

139. You keep talking sense and you will be thrown out of the party.

[Athena66]

158. It seems that the party

does not particularly want me right now, anyway. I keep saying "I didn't leave the Democratic Party- the Democratic Party left me." I don't even recognize it any more. :cry:

[SomeGuyInEagan]

196. I've stayed in bascially the same spot, philospically, for 30 years. I *was* middle-of-the-road...

... now I am too far to the left for the Democratic leadership.

[Athena66]

214. I've been

quite a lefty for well over 40 years. By now, the Democrats would not only consider me way too far to the left, they'd probably label me a communist, or at least a socialist.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

229. Where I grew up, at least, I was pretty middle-of-the-road ...

... socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

Strong belief in safe working conditions, access to healthcare, individual rights (as long as they do not endanger, infringe or otherwise harm others), strong public k-12 and higher education (which only benefits society AND business). But also believe in a strong national defense (not invading other countries to prop up corporate-friendly leaders), paying your way (when possible) and helping others (when possible), paying taxes.

That was considered pretty much in the middle in Iowa in the '70s and '80s. My belief in a woman's right to choose is certainly left-leaning. My belief in a single-payer healthcare system seems to only benefit business - can't understand why so many small- and medium-sized business owners don't get that.

[Athena66]

232. It seems like

we're pretty much on the same page, except where I grew up, all that was considered pretty lefty. I have never understood, either, why corporations haven't gotten behind the single-payer bandwagon. It would save the ones who have health insurance plans for their workers a bundle, and it would help all businesses by having healthier, more productive workers who would take fewer sick days. Short-sighted of them, very short-sighted.

[xxqqqzme]

159. That would get my vote.

If a candidate were to propose all your set forth, she would win in a landslide. The whorporate media would find a way to trash the whole plan though.

[drm604]

178. I want to vote for you!

:applause:

[Athena66]

228. Oh, sweetie, thank you, but

I would never run for public office. I would, however, work my tuchus off for any candidate who believed as I do.

[drm604]

233. Oh ,I didn't think you were actually running

and I'd have to know much more about someone before committing my vote. I just wanted to emphasize how much I like your post. You said what needs to be done, clearly and succinctly.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

226. How logical AND compassionate.

The only thing stopping ideas like yours is lack of two things:

Courage and Cohesion



of course, I'm just a keyboard crusader, Joan of Arc of the Aircard..... :P

[aggiesal]

235. Whoaaaaa, you're going to get a yellow flag ...

for making way too much sense. :applause:

[Lugnut]

43. Absolutely! n/t

[Thumper79]

53. That makes too much sense.

:kick:

[wordpix]

71. +2

[defendandprotect]

101. +1000% --

[fishwax]

121. .

:thumbsup:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

154. Yes. Increase the cap, which is what he RAN (and won) on!!! n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

2. "... Bowles-Simpson proposal may serve as a starting point ..."

I pointed this out on another thread here today. If this is O's starting point, we are HOSED.

[sarcasmo]

3. A backbone appears to have been found.

[defendandprotect]

102. Or a pretense of one -- !!

[PassingFair]

151. Original letter (Oct. 2010) and signatures:

http://grijalva.house.gov/uploads/Letter%20to%20President%20Opposing%20Soc%20Sec%20Cuts%20Oct%2015.pdf

[Tx4obama]

4. Obama is not actually 'cutting' funds. See last paragraph below

Alan Colmes: Obama To Draw Sharp Distinction From Republicans On Budget


President Obama on Wednesday plans to announce budget plans very different than what we’re hearing from Republicans.

He will call for shrinking the nation’s long-term deficits by raising taxes on wealthier Americans and requiring them to pay more into Social Security, drawing a barbed contrast with a Republican plan to save money by deeply slashing Medicare, Medicaid and other domestic spending.

Obama will offer some spending cuts, including trims to the Pentagon’s budget, but his speech Wednesday is likely to provide Americans with a vivid choice between higher taxes or fewer benefits, issues that will color the national debate straight through the 2012 election…

Obama would end tax breaks for households earning more than $250,000 a year, trim Pentagon spending, lift a cap on the amount of income that is assessed for Social Security, and save on Medicare and Medicaid through alterations to healthcare delivery, administration officials said. He will speak about 1:30 p.m. Eastern time on the campus of George Washington University.

http://www.alan.com/2011/04/12/obama-to-draw-sharp-distinction-from-republicans-on-budget

[MannyGoldstein]

10. "Any bill I sign must include a public option... "

Got it.

[FLAprogressive]

25. they will spin ANYTHING

[Bluebear]

122. +

[dennis4868]

36. so you blame Obama....

for the DINOs not allowing the public options....GOT IT!

For whatever reason, DUers forget there is a congress...HELLO....read the constitution.....hahahaha!

[dflprincess]

51. One more time, Obama said any bill he signed "MUST have a public option"

He could have vetoed the scam that Congress passed. Instead he chose to be complicit in selling us out to the insurance companies.

[dennis4868]

76. i will take your word on that....

although I have not seen a quote on this....assuming what you say is true, are you saying that because the public option, which would give a few more million people health insurance, Obama should have vetoed the bill that included so many important things....I know a family that has a baby and that baby would be dead now if it was not for Obama signing that bill....also in a couple of more years health insurance that will be very affordable for all will be available to 20 million Americans....also no more getting turned down for pre-existing conditions, more care for women and elderly....and Obama should have vetoed the bill? Are you in fantasy land....dem presidents have been fighting for years unsuccessfully what Obama got for us.....

[dflprincess]

82. Health insurance does not equal health care

This scam still allows large out of pocket expenses that will continue to drive Americans to bankruptcy. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in this bill guarantees that most of us will be able to afford care when we need it.

Health insurance is not affordable now and the Insurance Profit Protection Act is not going to make it any cheaper "in a couple years". The CBO estimates that while there will be an intial drop in people with no insurance, that number wil begin to climb again almost immediately (and it makes no estimates on how many more will be underinsured). In 10 years we're going to right back where we started - maybe even worse off as Congress passed and Obama signed a bill that does nothing but dig the insurance companies in deeper and still leaves us lacking the care we need.

As far as Obama fighting? Please, he rolled over before negotiations even began. And, up until Clinton, I don't recall many Democratic presidents being so willing to sell us out to their corporate masters.

[dennis4868]

94. I don't need to hear that....

my brother's wife died a few years ago because she did not have health insurance....she rotted away as the health insurance dropped her because she met the cap (whcih is now GONE becuase of HCR).....people don't realize how GREAT HCR is for people.....they just say no public option so it's a bad deal without giving any attention to all the great things in the new law.

[eridani]

129. The reason most people don't realize how great HCR is--

--is that absolutely fuckall has happened to benefit them. They only notice that their premiums have gone up exponentially since passage. True, some people have benefitted, but the numbers are so tiny that they can't possibly be a political force.

--Eliminating lifetime caps-really, really good for the 0.1% of the population that runs up against them.
--Insuring more 23-26 year olds, but only 20% of that narrow demographic slice has taken advantage of that. Some of them because they get their own at work, but most because their parents are either uninsured themselves or can't afford to add their kids.
--12,000 of the 6 million eligible people have signed up for the high risk pool. Sick rich people have benefitted, but no one else. The premiums are just too high.

If 100 people are drowning and a lifeboat comes to pick up 10 of them, whatthefuck do you expect the other 90 to do? Stand up and cheer?

[dflprincess]

203. The annual caps aren't gone yet

either that or there are a lot of companies violating the law.

And, people who can't afford their deductibles will put off care until a situation becomes dire. Americans are going to continue to die because even though they have "coverage" the insurance they have still makes accessing care too expensive.

The only real winners coming out of this deal are the insurance companies who have been handed millions of new patsies to scam.

[TBF]

140. Will video work for you?

Here is the quote (and the video of him saying it):

Any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans - including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest - and choose what's best for your family.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/obama-demands-the-bill-i-sign-must-include-public-option.php

[Bluenorthwest]

141. Here's a quote for those who lack memory and a video link

to Obama saying it. You can see and hear him say: "any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans - including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest - and choose what's best for your family."
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/obama-demands-the-bill-i-sign-must-include-public-option.php

And fantasy land is when you rewrite reality to fit what some politician finally did. How cute to 'forget' what was said. Fantasy Land also involves imagining angels saying 'no equal rights for gays' and spouting off about how Sanctified your kind is, and how other sorts of people are just not as good as your kind.

[mistertrickster]

62. Yet, oddly, Bush got anything he wanted, including an elective war in Iraq. nt

[dennis4868]

72. right....

because of the spineless dems in congress....why do dems in congress always get a pass?

[MannyGoldstein]

81. Has Obama done anything wrong?

If so, what?

[JoeyT]

93. Never!

And his ability to turn water into wine and multiply the buffet makes his parties a hit.

[dennis4868]

95. yes....

he trusted too many dems in congress....the DINOs watered down so much good legislation....but here at DU it's Obama's faulth....O

[Bluenorthwest]

146. The buck stops at that desk, no matter who sits at it

When a politician makes all manner of promises he ought to be either able to keep them or able to admit that he failed to. Obama simply announced that he'd never campaigned on a public option, but he did, he also campaigned posing as being opposed to mandates, he slimmed Hillary for supporting mandates, said 'she's after your paycheck' and went on and on about how mandating purchase of insurance to 'solve' health care problems is like mandating that everyone buy a house to solve homelessness. He laid it on with a trowel and the second he got the job, he ran from every single thing that won him the votes.

[customerserviceguy]

136. Exactly

I wonder how many of the Dems who signed this letter also happily voted to gut Social Security by voting for the 2% tax 'holiday' in last year's Bush tax cut extension?

It would be nice if their actions backed up their words.

[treestar]

176. So SS and Medicare are already gone?

[newspeak]

237. Little Boots got everything because

he serves the corporations, the wealthy. It's easy to get everything if you're serving money--now if you're serving the proles, it takes real guts to get what you want. Like how FDR operated "a smile on his face and a knife behind his back."

[defendandprotect]

103. Obama is to blame for his backroom deals with Big Pharma and private h/c industry --

The public option was taken "off the table" as part of guarantee to the

private health care industry --

A few things you are "forgetting"???? ......

Like this disgusting acknowledgment of what Obama and DLC/Rahm were actually doing?



DU -- 8/12/10

Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!


”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater internationaltrade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care

preserved the private delivery system;

the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...




The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[defendandprotect]

110. Few more details on Obama's back room deals with Big Pharma --

WASHINGTON — Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion.

Drug industry lobbyists reacted with alarm this week to a House health care overhaul measure that would allow the government to negotiate drug prices and demand additional rebates from drug manufacturers.

In response,the industry successfully demanded that the White House explicitly acknowledge for the first time that it had committed to protect drug makers from bearing further costs in the overhaul. The Obama administration had never spelled out the details of the agreement.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insur...

[grahamhgreen]

115. We blame him for conning you into beliving that he ever wanted po in the first place.

[No Elephants]

194. Obama never fought for the public option with Congress or with the public .

To the contrary, he never had anything but the highest praise for Baucus's work on the bill. Also, while making the rounds during the town meetiing period (Summer 2009), he downgraded the importane of the public option, referring to it as a "sliver."

He refused to meet with the House Progressive Caucus on the bill until after the Senate passed a bill without a public option, even standing them up on one occasion.

Also, he could have put it in when the health care bill went to reconciliation but he didn't.

News flash: a Democratic Congress bends over backwards to cooperate with a Democratic President, esp. a popular one like Obama. If not, a Democratic President has many ways to put pressure on.

I've read the constitution many times--but I've also studied how Presidents actually operate when they want something, esp. if their Party controls Congress.

[treestar]

175. What has that got to do with it?

[DeSwiss]

14. Obama also said these things:

Excepts from: "Lifting the Veil: Obama and the Failure of Capitalist Democracy"

"I will promise you this: that if we haven't gotten our troops out by the time I'm president it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. I will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama, October 27, 2007

"Close down Guantanamo, restore habeas corpus, say no to renditions, no to wireless wiretaps..." - Barack Obama, November 14, 2007

"When I promise that I... we are going to bring this war in Iraq to a close in 2009, I want the American people to understand that I opposed this war in 2002, 2003, 4, 5, 6 and 7 -- so you can have confidence that I will be serious about ending this war." - Barack Obama, 2008

"Iran, they spend 1/100 of what we spend on the military. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us." - Barack Obama, May 18, 2008

"I think it's time for us to end the embargo on Cuba. I think this because, if you think about what is happening internationally, our planet is shrinking. And our biggest foreign policy challenge -- and it feeds into the battle on terrorism and it feeds into issues of trade and our economy -- is how do you make sure that other countries and developing nations are providing sustenance for their people, human rights for their people and the basic structure of government for their people and are stable and secure so that they can be partners in a bright future for the entire planet." - Barack Obama, 2008

"I've said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantanamo and I will follow through on that. I've said repeatedly that America doesn't torture. And I'm going to make sure we don't torture. Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America's moral stature in the world." - Barack Obama, 60 Minutes (2008)

"And as President I'm going to make it impossible for Congressmen or lobbyists to slip pork barrel projects or corporate welfare into laws while no one's looking. Because when I'm President meetings where laws are written will be more open to the public - no more secrecy - that's a commitment I make to you as President. When there's a tax bill being debated in Congress, you will know the names of the corporations that would benefit and how much money they would get. And we will put every corporate tax break and every pork barrel project online for every American to see. You'll know who asked for them and you can decide whether your representative is actually representing you." - Barack Obama, 2008

"....create jobs building solar panels and wind turbines and the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow. Jobs that will help us end our dependence on foreign oil and may save the planet in the process. Rebuilding our crumbling roads and schools and bridges...." "....so we can have a new electricity grid and bring renewable energy to population centers here in Indiana and across America. Build an American infrastructure for the 21st century." - Barack Obama, 2008

"....that tired, worn-out old theory that says, that says we should give more to billionaires and big corporations and hope that prosperity will trickle-down on everybody else. The last thing... the last thing we can afford is four more years where no one in Washington is watching anyone on Wall Street because politicians and lobbyists killed common-sense regulations. Those are the theories that got us into this mess. They haven't worked and it is time for change, and that's why I'm running for President of the United States of America." - Barack Obama, 2008

"...bailout Wall Street banks. As President I will insure the financial rescue plan helps stop foreclosures and protects your money, instead of enriching CEOs. And I'll put in place the common-sense regulations that I've been calling for throughout this campaign. So that Wall Street can never cause a crisis like this again. That's the change we need." - Barack Obama, 2008

"It is absolutely true that NAFTA was a mistake." - Barack Obama, 2008

"It's been a long time coming. But tonight, because of what we did on this day, in this election at this defining moment, change has come to America." - Barack Obama, November 4, 2008

Quotes excerpted from Barack Obama campaign speeches and interviews as shown in the documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzULm4d8h8w">"Lifting the Veil: Obama and the Failure of Capitalist Democracy"

- Now, tell me again why it is that I should I believe anything he says????

[Tx4obama]

17. You omitted all things that Obama DID do regarding the issues you posted.

He signed an Executive Order to close Gitmo (the Congress defunded the move).
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ClosureOfGuantanamoDetentionFacilities/

Why didn't you mention that Obama brought the 'combat troops' home from Iraq?

Where in your list are all the changes in policy that the USA made regarding Cuba?
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/222/grant-americans-unrestricted-rights-to-visit-famil/

There are so many holes in your list that I am not going to waste any more my time with the list's BS.

[DeSwiss]

18. Because he didn't.

- He just renamed them.

[mistertrickster]

63. "There are so many holes in your list" . . . translation, "you're right, but I refuse to

be convinced by facts."

[inna]

21. good selection. needs to be a thread in itself.

[Iwasthere]

24. NOT!

[inna]

50. yep, it certainly does

[mistertrickster]

64. I DID start a thread like that. Wow, did I get hammered.

Got called every name in the book: jagoff, dipshit, T-bagger, Karl Rove, etc. etc.

[defendandprotect]

105. Yes, those here with "hammers" get an early start and try to kill threads they don't like!!

[No Elephants]

202. If that happens, you should Alert.

[mistertrickster]

222. Yup, did that. And then the thread got locked, heigh ho. nt

[defendandprotect]

104. And it should be a thread posted regularly to remind DU -- !!

[emilyg]

22. Thanks.

[Autumn]

80. Damn good list.

I wish I could recommend your post. Thank you

[eridani]

16. If all he is going to do is raise the FICA cap, that would be great. However--

--in any number of issue communications from the White House that I have had, Obama has NEVER ONCE made that commitment, though he always says he is against privatization. (Big deal--Bush couldn't get that with both houses of Congress and the presidency.)

Alterations to health care delivery don't mean jackshit without price controls, which Obama has refused to enact.

[Tx4obama]

19. It might not hurt to wait until tomorrow and give Obama a chance to speak first....

before jumping to conclusions.

[liberation]

32. Indeed, let's not jump to conclusions

you guys first...

[dennis4868]

37. jumping to conclusions here at DU?

NAH.....that does not happen here....there is no hyperspeculation at DU....hahahaha!

People here reach conclusions about things and it remains a fact no matter what the real facts are....so sad....so sad!

[frylock]

61. it would appear that congress has jumped to some conclusions as well..

but they're in no position to have any kind of inside information i'm sure.

[dennis4868]

69. I agree....

congressman always jump to conclusions especially if it helps themselves politically....

[frylock]

74. you add nothing to the dialog..

have a nice evening.

[dennis4868]

97. and you just add so much....

[wordpix]

78. I say give the president a platform to stand on, right here and now--#1: stand up to the oligarchy

corporate whore masters and be firm on your principles.

[defendandprotect]

106. We've been waiting 2 1/2 years -- Obviously Campaign-Obama was kidnapped ... !!!

or he is Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde -- !!!

[2banon]

40. Alan Colmes? As in Hannity's former side kick?

Or am I misremembering his name?

[inna]

52. yep, FauxNews' token liberal

[ProudDad]

117. And he also "said"

He thought Single-payer was the best Health Financing System...

And that he'd put on his walking shoes to defend unions...

That he'd close Guantanamo (sort of implying that he'd end gwbush's GWOT -- which he DID NOT DO)...

Etc. etc. etc.

He's REALLY good at "saying"...

At doing, not so much...

[No Elephants]

184. That's what he ran on , but he already extended those tax breaks. Believe it when I see it.

[rpannier]

5. Didn't the House say they wouldn't support extending the tax breaks for millionaires?

We saw how far that went

Members of the House have said they wouldn't support dozens of things over two years and everytime they caved
To borrow a phrase from Scott Hall, "Don't sing it, bring it."

[truedelphi]

7. The one thing you gotta admire about Republican Presidents -

They watch out for their base.

Obama doesn't even let the base figure into his thinking. Especially once the owners of the Bigger Corporations get a hold of him.

[FiveGoodMen]

23. Obama and the pukes cater to the same base.

And we have nobody.

[ProudDad]

118. Yep, the Haves and the Have Mores...

bush's problem was he was too honest...

So they played the game of switch on us...

[No Elephants]

205. Poppy Bush said "No new taxes," but failed to veto a new tax bill. Pubs stayed home in droves.

That's why Republican Presidents respect their base--they have to.

[inna]

6. good. what's wrong with the rest of congressional dems, who didn't sign this?

[truedelphi]

8. Possibility exists that they are only loyal to the

DLC, which so far has shown no real interest in Social Security.

[Citizen Worker]

29. The DLC is very interested in Social Security. Like the republicons the DLC wants to eliminate

Social Security.

[newspeak]

49. no, no

they want to give that money to wall street and then set up where we pay the wall street tithe--we may or may not see something in return. Of course, after they get that money it just may disappear--enronized.

[Citizen Worker]

90. Enronized. I like that and it made me think of Madoffed.

[defendandprotect]

108. Democratic Party's DLC was funded by the Rightwing Koch Bros --

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know -- pass it along -- !!

:)

[truedelphi]

219. That's what I was meaning, but

I wasn't clear about anything yesterday.

In past ten days, two friends have become suicidal.

Lately all my typing at DU has been a diversion from closer more personal issues.

In any case, thanks for your post.

[gateley]

96. I thought the DLC was disbanding or something -- where did I get that idea?

Or was it just wishful thinking?

[defendandprotect]

109. DLC was harbored within the Democratic Party for decades -- Funded by Koch Bros --

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know -- pass it along -- !!

:)

[gateley]

199. Although I knew the DLC is essentially Republican Democrats, I didn't know

about the Koch Bros. funding, but "knowing" some of the members, I'm not at all surprised.

I thought I read here (because frankly, where else I do I get my info?) that the DLC had hit hard financial times and were going to disband. Hmmmm....

[eridani]

131. They did. You go home after you win the game. n/t

[gateley]

200. Well, there's always a possibility we can win it back. Hope/delusion springs eternal! nt

[defendandprotect]

207. And -- DLC/Rahm off to Chicago to seek his new fortunes -- !!

[No Elephants]

213. No, not yet. Please see Reply 206.

[No Elephants]

206. The DLC has completed take over of the Democratic Party and

therefore has no need to continue to exist as a separate entity. However, it does still exist, as of now anyway.

A while back, Politico ran a story saying the DLC was out of money, was re-assessing and might disband. However, maybe no one even sees a need to raise funds for it anymore, given how the DLC (or New Democrats or Third Way or No Labels) completely took over the Democratic Party (and are a large majority of the Super Delegates, who control who beomes the Party's Presidential nominee, who, in turn, names the head of the DNC, now Blue Dog Kaine and soon to be New Democrat Wasserman).


DLC Co-Founder Will Marshall (also co-signer of the PNAC memo) heads--wait for it--the Progressive Policy Institute, formed in 1989.(one of several reasons I never use "progressive.")


Within the last couple of years, DLC Co-Founder Al From formed The From Company, LLC, which "offers strategic advice to private clients."

His bio at the DLC website (which is silll operational) includes this nugget:


"Today, many of the ideas that comprise the core of the Democratic Party's agenda come from work done under From's leadership at the DLC. National service, an expanded Earned Income Tax Credit, welfare reform, charter schools, community policing, expanded trade and re-inventing government were all championed by scholars and analysts at the DLC well before becoming part of the Democratic Party's great successes. Today, many leading Democrats from across the nation point to the DLC's brand of politics as a key element of their success."

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=86&subid=191&contentid=1131

[defendandprotect]

208. Thank you/agree -- "DLC completed its take over of the Dem Party" -- !!

[tcaudilllg]

216. That's 50 Dems targeted for defeat next year?

[Joe Bacon]

11. Buy a vowel

B L _ _

D _ G S

[PassingFair]

147. The New Dems like to blame things on the Blue Dogs...

but they work in conjunction.

Like the Catholic church hides behind the
more vocal Baptist anti-abortion forces.

[kenfrequed]

173. hmm

Evan Bayh's Senate blue dog subcaucus was comprised of far more DLC'ers than it was actual rural state blue dogs.

[No Elephants]

218. +1

[Jim__]

9. At least that's some good news! - n/t

[DeSwiss]

15. K&R n/t

[florida08]

20. K&R

:dem:

[FLAprogressive]

26. How about one of these people getting off their asses and primarying Obama???

[Liberalynn]

30. I agree

[defendandprotect]

209. Should be a Dem challenger -- but not anyone inside the DLC/Dem Party -- !!

Too many on the inside are pre-bought and pre-owned by corporations --

We need outside dems -- who can run on Dem tickt --

Maybe Sen. Bernie Sanders who can run on a Dem ticket --

and someone like Tom Hayden for VP? We need two strong anti-war Dems!!


VP Biden has been running around for a year now saying that Israel should attack Iran!

Biden says, "Israel would be justified in attacking Iran" --


Certainly my conscience isn't going to allow me to vote for either Obama or Biden --

or any part of the Wall St. team they put in place to cover up their financial crimes!

[daa]

27. SCRAP THE CAP!!! eom

[walerosco]

31. K & R

[OhioChick]

33. K&R n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

34. Hands off Medicare, too. n/t

[totodeinhere]

35. Obama believes that the progressives have nowhere else to go so I doubt if he will take this

seriously. He needs the GOP majority in the House to get legislation passed, not the progressives.

This can only change after the next election and the Republicans know that too. That's why they will go all out to cut as much as they can now while they can.

[Jefferson23]

38. How telling they need to even write such a letter. n/t

[2banon]

41. exactly..

I'm reading various refutes on this message board that Obama has NO INTENTIONS of agreeing to any of these draconian measures, yet.. here we are on the edge of the cliff hanging on by our fingernails, while we are told, "oh No. You're so Wrong about Obama's intentions!" (paraphrasing of course)

[Jefferson23]

44. Well it's sad there is such a lack of confidence but you'd be very foolish

to have no concern at all imo.

[2banon]

204. Sorry, I don't follow.. ?

I am deeply concerned. And I just listened to the long awaited speech from Obama to prove that my concerns as expressed wrt to where he is on these matters refuted. Unfortunately, he did not disprove what we've been saying regarding his capitulation to the extreme right.

It's sickening.

[Jefferson23]

227. What I meant was, there is room for concern based on his past decisions, as

far as this recent speech..we'll see what it translates into.

[2banon]

236. Ah.. I gotcha.. I just listened to parts of his speech again.. I *feel* a little better

but time will indicate if what I *feel* matches up with policy changes/actions and speech to follow.

[still_one]

160. The fact that the Obama administration does not refute these "allegations" speaks volumes. /nt

[gateley]

100. I was thinking the same thing -- when your "people" don't have confidence

in what you may do... :shrug: Sad.

[Michigan-Arizona]

39. Huge K&R n/t

[2banon]

42. I've been really disappointed with Conyers since Obama's election.. but praise to him for this

it's something. not much. but something.

[Stargleamer]

45. Dems having to tell a Dem President to leave Social Security. . .

alone?

What has this world come to?

[Safetykitten]

47. Never thought I would see the day.

[CrispyQ]

169. Best response in this thread,

& my thought as well.

[myrna minx]

183. .

:-( Too sad.

[Paladin]

48. Good. K&R.

[walerosco]

55. medicare too

Why is it that SS gets all the attention here?

[Kashka-Kat]

56. COULD SOMEONE PLS explain to me the 2% FICA tax cut and how this fits in cos

it really didn't make any sense to me when it was passed, and sure doesn't make sense to me now. It seemed to me that it was an under-the-radar thing that fits in nicely with the radical right agenda to weaken social security - and all social programs for that matter. No one wanted it, or asked for it - yet it was done. Can't say I really even notice it in my paycheck. VERY STRANGE - why was that done???

These Dems should say "don't cut benefits - OR - FICA revenue."

[dflprincess]

59. You already know the answer - it was done to weaken Social Security

The deficit in SS funding the 2% cut creates makes Social Security partially dependent on the general revenue for the first time ever and makes it easier for the "new Democrats" and their allies in the Republican party to claim SS is part of the deficit problem.

[Kashka-Kat]

88. Did it come from Obama then - when I first read "the shock doctrine" I wasnt quite sure what

"neoliberal" meant - I think I've come to realize in the last year or 2....

[freshwest]

85. Bernie Sanders explained the effects in detail. It was brought by the same people who hate Soc. Sec.

He also informed us that the architect of the 'temporary' tax cut knew it would be permanent, and that he'd stated decades ago that was the best way to get rid of it. It's a technical change with long-term impacts.

Now the Tea Party is calling for it to go as a matter of ideological purity, no matter who dies from it. They've made it more palatable to their elderly members by saying they will be grandfathered into the system, and screw the rest.

They're going after the most vulnerable people in their Medicaid cuts first, the ones who can't fight back. Whole groups of people are at risk of dying from this.

The ones that are on Medicare now can make a stink, but are of a certain demographic that want the system unchanged for them, but not others. I'm not painting all seniors with that brush, but a lot of the Tea Party voters come from that group.

The plan in operation as we are here discussing this it to hand it completely over to the states, who they know cannot afford it. They're doing it to prevent federal oversight and undermine decades of hard-won improvements to the rights of those who need the help the most. What's already being done, is the states are reducing long-term care coverage and benefits to block grants.

When a person takes one, it is welfare. That means it is temporary and at the whim of the legislature, not an entitlement. The reactionary conservatives won't be satisfied until the program is gone, along with all others protections between the corporations and the public. Just as it was over a century ago.

[ProudDad]

119. Yep, you nailed it...

A not so "under-the-radar thing that fits in nicely with the radical right agenda to weaken social security - and all social programs for that matter"

That's the new DLC/Democrat agenda...

[CrispyQ]

170. Here's an excellent summary by bvar22:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x862501#866174

The entire thread is worth reading. :thumbsup:

[unkachuck]

57. throw in....

....Medicare and Medicaid too....these programs should never be touched as long as corporations like GE can make 14 billion in profit, pay no tax and get a 3 billion dollar refund....

....politicians who support giving tax breaks to the rich while punishing the American people for crimes they did not commit, are at best, un-American, at worst, traitors....

[No Elephants]

220. +1

[bertman]

58. OH NO's!!!! Not another nasty note from the House Democrats.

I'm sure President Obama is quaking in his boots.


Hell, that's a step DOWN from a 'sternly-worded letter' and we know how much impact those suckers have had over the last few years.

[MJJP21]

60. Does anyone

here really believe Obama cares about democrats supporting him? I mean seriously who really thinks that. With all the choices he made and all the choices he had and looking at what side he took on most how can anyone here think that he is concerned about any percieved support? Democrats stayed home in 2010 and gave up the house and most of the senate and that goes for most states that were democrat and Obama is still standing.He doesn't need us and doesn't care if we support him because the conservative dems and many republicans will vote for him because the alternative is worse.

[jillan]

65. How many people signed the letter? I just saw two signatures - but - hey - 2 is better than none on

this important issue.

[Monique1]

68. Again I say

this is Tea Party Underground - you all won't wait and listen - just throw out garbage to who ever might believe.

[ProudDad]

120. And what part of the FICA cut did you miss?

The camel's nose under the tent flap to undermine Social Security...

[frylock]

182. isn't that what people were saying during the healthcare debate?

during the bush tax-cut expiration debate? just shut up and wait to get skullfucked. again.

[PassingFair]

150. They are, of course, referring to the letter of Oct 12, 2010, signed by 136 HOUSE MEMBERS....

http://grijalva.house.gov/uploads/Letter%20to%20President%20Opposing%20Soc%20Sec%20Cuts%20Oct%2015.pdf


They're in alphabetical order for you.

[No Elephants]

221. OP says 137 Reps signed it.

[progressoid]

67. Somebody didn't their pooooney.

[druidity33]

134. Try that in English. nt.

:eyes:

[wordpix]

70. I was called last night to give $ to DFA for O's re-election. My response:

I'm disappointed. I gave a lot of money to get O elected and he has not come through. Unless/until he starts supporting his base of progressive supporters, I'll be giving money to the primary opponent who does. I then listed a litany of items I'm disappointed in, including

Re-issuing deepwater drilling permits, even though the official investigative report finds the BO preventers don't work
Two wars (now 3 with Libya) still going on and bankrupting US
Cutting social programs while top 2% income earners get tax cuts
Corporate welfare/subsidies for BigOil and Agribusiness continue
Billions of guaranteed loans for nuke industry
Guantanamo still open

The very nice young man said he'd let his higher ups know my opinion.

Speak up, now's the time.

[kestrel91316]

75. ZOMG. THAT is what spine looks and acts like.

[still_one]

77. He will lose a lot more then the houses support, he will lose in 2012 /nt

[wordpix]

79. you've got that right---don't take us former supporters for granted

[defendandprotect]

113. True -- so why would any Democratic president do something like that -- ?

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[Better Believe It]

84. Let's hope they also send a letter opposing any cuts in Medicare and Medicaid.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

86. +1

.

[colsohlibgal]

87. Stick ToYour Guns Reps!

I had already had it up to here with Obama going all DINO on us right out of the chute but he keeps tilting to the right more and more. Enough is enough and I'm glad these fine people seem to be finally drawing a line in the sand.

I say the time is ripe for the 2012 version of Gene McCarthy, to at least force Obama leftward. Someone like Grayson or Feingold.

[Mosaic]

91. He's always been lukewarm to me

So I've always been lukewarm to him. We'll see soon what he's really made of.

[plumbob]

92. Yep, the only change I will accept is a change in the cap.

Anybody goes for anything else, they lose my support. Period.

[girl_interrupted]

99. K&R

[democracy1st]

107. K & R

[defendandprotect]

111. dupe --

Let's deal with the reality of the Obama betryals --

And bad things are already after 2 1/2 years --

and you want another 5 1/2 years of this???

How deep in denial is DU?

Let's try to draft Bernie Sanders -- or any other common democrat who can

run on the Dem ticket -- anyone who is outside the party -- not pre-bribed

and pre-owned by corporations!!

[eridani]

132. No, I don't want it--but the problem is that Sanders isn't going to do it

Not Kucinich, not Dean. This is partly the fault of people on the left--we did not run for local office in the 70s like Sanders and Kucinich did, or at least support others of our generation doing that. Result--no one in the pipeline with the etature to take on Obama and then go on to defeat the Republican.

[defendandprotect]

212. Who knows what Sanders would do if we were organized? Meanwhile, you

really don't want people from inside the DLC/Democratic Party --

they are pretty much all pre-owned and pre-bribed by corporations --

On the other hand, we have tons of democrats -- many well known -- who can run

on Dem ticket -- from Wm. Greider to Tom Hayden --

We need two strong anti-war democrats to run!!

When you say "stature" -- I think you are mistaken -- Obama is heading for being disdained -- !!

[defendandprotect]

112. Now we're waiting for these Democrats to save Social Security --!!! Whaaat????

Let's deal with the reality of the Obama betryals --

And bad things are already after 2 1/2 years --

and you want another 5 1/2 years of this???

How deep in denial is DU?

Let's try to draft Bernie Sanders -- or any other common democrat who can

run on the Dem ticket -- anyone who is outside the party -- not pre-bribed

and pre-owned by corporations!!

More than half the Congress are millionaires and multi-millionaires - !!


The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[Shiver]

114. Just read the President's budget.

No cuts to Social Security Benefits. No mention of raising the retirement age. And from page 65:

The Administration will oppose any measures that privatize or weaken the Social Security system.

[Robb]

148. Ah, reading.

[No Elephants]

223. First, no one on this thread is talking about privatization and what

does or does not "weaken" OASDI in Obama's eyes is not spelled out. So, no one here knows what your quote means, aside from no privatization (which Bush could not get passed by Congress anyway ). Does raising retirement age weaken OASDI in his eyes? We don't know.


Second, even if we did know exactly what he meant, we also know sometimes his "thinking evolves."

[grahamhgreen]

116. Thank God. We're better off fighting without him.

It's like being in a cage match with a wool hat pulled over your eyes.

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[farmboxer]

124. What about medicare? Can't over look that!

Damned corporate Repubs want to end medicare/medicaid also!

[earcandle]

125. That is a start, but you have got to learn to be assertive and not take anything less than what will

work for the good of all Americans, not some over the other.

I notice the last two presidents and congressmembers never
mention the poor, as if they don't count.
and now they don't count.  duh?  That is not what we pay taxes
for, you doh doh brains.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kall]

127. Sterny Worded Letters...

... have not been lived up to in the past.

[indimuse]

128. Obama is a politician.. politicians are known to be LIARS. period.

All the President has to do is deal with the Federal Reserve! Why is no one in congress making this case?

KNR!

[Meshuga]

130. I always thought Social Security was its own fund

So what does it have to do with the deficit?

Social Security is a regressive tax that needs to be made flat (at the very least) to be solvent. If any changes are to be made to Social Security the changes should be to remove the damn $106k ceiling and make the wealthy pay their fair share.

[avebury]

133. If Obama is going to assist the Republicans

in reaching their end game (mess with social security,medicare & medicaid) then there is no reason for anyone to get out and vote at the next Presidential election. It will prove to Americans that even when the Democrats have the White House and Senate the Republicans can still get away with their shit.

If the Democrats are not going to fight for the masses (considered serfs and peons by the uber rich and Corporations then people have to start looking after themselves. I just want to survive long enough to be able to retire somewhere else. If I could find the right place I wouldn't think twice nor would I look back I would only look forward as I left the US.

[Hubert Flottz]

135. K&R

I'm glad somebody is still a democrat.

[Vinca]

138. The SS fix is so simple - raise the cap. Why is it such a big deal?

[wordpix]

149. obviously, b/c Dems including O got big campaign $$ from the corporatists

so they've got to protect that constituency. But these pols also get campaign donations from just folks like me. Now let's see which side of the fence they're on. And they have to get off it or they'll likely be voted out.

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JJW]

142. To fix anything

O needs to lockup up his criminal banker sponsors. It isn't going to happen. We need a new President.

[cullen7282]

143. Social Security isn't just retirement

It's also for the disabled. Ask any parent of a disabled child what they think about cuts to social security. I am one of those parents. Often, unless you have retired parents nearby, you can't find suitable child care. You have no choice but to stay at home with your child. In this economy, try finding a job only during school hours when you can't work on days that school is out. It's near impossible. Social Security is the only thing keeping us afloat because it pays most of our rent and we're still living paycheck to paycheck.

[malaise]

144. 100% correct

Go Dems!

[Search4Justice]

145. I'd suggest he listen for a change. n/t

[BEZERKO]

152. Memo to the Cat Food Commission

STFU. Go soak your heads!

[joeglow3]

153. Define "surplus"

The fact of the matter is that I cannot save 100% of my income for retirement, then withdrawal all funds to pay my living expenses and replace them with IOU's to myself and claim to be saving for retirement.

I agree that, if left alone, social security would be perfectly solvent. However, the fact of the matter is that most of those funds have been long since spent. That is a sunk cost and we need to look at how we can make the system stable with the new set of facts we were handed (not decades old facts).

To me, the easiest solution is to treat it as the insurance program it is: means test it so that those that collect on their "policy" are those below a certain means.

[NorthCarolina]

155. Glaring omission: No mention of "Medicare".

I guess we can read that omission as: Prepare for a coupon system.

[Name removed]

193. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OwnedByFerrets]

156. They had BETTER tell him the same about Medicaid and Medicare

[bkkyosemite]

161. Paying the rich checks and giving them Medicare is one of those things I go ugg to.

Let their be a cap on who will get a Social Security check. It's absurd that an elderly woman who stayed home with her children to raise them is getting maybe $300 a month and eating cat food vs a weathly person receiving a Social Security check that is not needed. If you stopped the rich from recieving the checks and stopped Medicare going to them (as they can afford the best medical around)I would think that would make a huge difference. These cuts are fair in my opinion. Also taxing those who use loop holes to get out of taxes...rich/corporations to pay their share along with the above would make a huge difference. The middle class is dwindling before our eyes and the poor are getting poorer.

I know I know they pay into the system....but they do not pay their fair share of taxes...and wouldn't even notice if they pay for the betterment of the whole.

I'm sick of the disparity. I sick of the unfairness. I sick of the corruption. I'm sick of those who are fortunate getting the only breaks, the loopholes and the best because they have the money to do so while the majority struggles each day to just pay for essentials. Give me break!

p.s. sorry about the soap box ....jumped off now...forgive me ...

[totodeinhere]

163. I'm against means testing for either Social Security or Medicare because

I don't want to have to go through a bunch of rigmarole to prove my eligibility. They would probably require us to produce bank statements, copies of income tax returns, pay stubs, etc. I don't want to have to go through all that just to get something that I have a right to anyway. And means testing can be a slippery slope. Where will they draw the line? Will they say that someone who worked hard and saved for their retirement all their life is ineligible for Social Security and Medicare just because they have a few bucks socked away? I'm against that.

[bkkyosemite]

172. Thank you I did not know it was called means testing

But my feeling is that those with the ability to pay their own way to buy their own insurance coverage and to live comfortably without Social Security and Medicare should do just that and leave those that really need those two items to have them. If you make over a certain amount you don't get it simple.

If I make over a certain amount I do not get food stamps, umemployment etc. To me it's the same thing.

Pardon the edit...

And I pay taxes for those who need the above food stamps unemployment etc...

I am truly disallusioned by the unfairness of this whole system. I worked hard to so did the majority of the people of this country. There is too much unfairness in this system to allow all to benefit equally for their hard work.

[joeglow3]

181. Then, are you saying it is NOT an insurance program?

What you are defining sounds much more like a retirement plan (similar to a 401(k) or pension). I am not saying your opinion is wrong. However, I have always considered it (and heard it referred to as) an insurance plan.

[Change Happens]

162. ENOUGH SAID! Get your people together and insist on voting for things you

support ONLY, it is really that simple :)

[bkkyosemite]

165. That is if our votes are really counting and not being manipulated as

reported many times by Brad.......and many others...I vote and vote but what I vote for never has truly come.

Corruption abounds in our govenment and we need a clean sweep. New blood just an average guy/gal...not the 30 year career politician who is bought and paid for by corporations and world groups who want to control the majority with power and money.

When will my vote count. It hasn't so far. Because what I'm voting for is not truth it's a fairytale made up by those running for their positions and being paid by those who control....

Universal healthcare was touted and I wanted HR676 a wonderful bill........but alas it was said later I never said that......yes you did........and now what will my vote be about...pretty disallustioned these days I'm afraid and I had such hope.

[defendandprotect]

210. Government by gangsterism -- and voting on GOP controlled computers -- !!

Interesting that the Dem Party which has been so harmed by stolen elections is

so little interested in hackable computer voting!!

:evilgrin:


Many think that elections steals began in 2000 -- however, the voting computers

have been coming in since late 1960's -- I'd question every election back to Nixon/

Humphrey! Were the GOP computers the real "Southern Strategy"?


Meanwhile, we also have to recognize the role played and the power of the LARGE computers

used by MSM -- They began to come in during the mid-1960's -- and gave MSM new powers to

PREDICT and CALL elections -- winners/losers -- ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES -- even to CALL a

state for a presidential candidate!

What we saw in 2000 was simply a REVERSAL of those new powers!

Prior to the large computers, MSM could only report actual vote tallies.


Two journalists in Florida in the late 1960's immediately began to question the results being

reported from computer voting -- and discovered they were unverifiable. They got a huge

education in how elections are stolen and contracted to write a book which was taken down

from bookstore shelves immediately after arriving --

Votescam -- The Stealing of America

Book is available here and there for about $3 -- make sure all pages are intact.

But you can read a lot of the book at the family website.


http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm



:)

[Enthusiast]

164. On C-Span's Washington Journal

we had Pennsylvania D-Representative Allyson Schwartz. One caller wanted to know if she would consider raising the retirement age. She more or less said she would consider it. I could not believe she was so damn stupid. How completely out of touch can you be? Democrats have a winning issue but are afraid to stand their (our) ground.

The Republican Representative on earlier was far more polished than Allyson, she didn't miss a single talking point even though everything she said was either a lie or just plain wrong.

Come on Allyson! Only one change is acceptable for social security. That is raising the cap. Get with the program!

Anyone on DU that knows Allyson? Please express my disappointment in her performance on Washington Journal. I expect D to mean D.

Oh, I checked the signatures. I see Allyson didn't even sign the damn letter. Okay, I'm officially working for someone that will primary her.

[defendandprotect]

211. Is she "stupid" ... or is it something else ... ?

The Righwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know -- pass it along -- !!

:)

[Enthusiast]

225. I know.

It is deeply disappointing.

[fredamae]

168. Well, is today the day that determines

whether or not Obama is a "one termer" or impeached?

[newspeak]

238. impeached?

If you wanted to impeach someone--the one's that have done way more harm to this country--you should have gone after Little Boots and Darth Cheney. Lying the public into a war with the help of a very complicit corporate MSM and outing Brewster-Jennings who monitored WMDs to me is way more serious, especially for the security of this country. Then to privatize part of the military and allowing obscene war profiteering (FDR was against war profiteering) and shoveling billions and billions of dollars into the Iraq hole (billions unaccounted) and allowing Wallstreet a deregulated free reign to ultimately destroy most of the world's economy. If you wanted impeachment, you really missed your chance.

[kenfrequed]

171. hmmm

I hope they stand tall on this one.

[bkkyosemite]

174. They are touting Medicare and Medicaid on TV constantly as

something they want to take away. Leave these alone too. They are needed just as badly as Social Security...damn Republican paid for and delivered by corporations.

[L0oniX]

177. TAX THE FUCKING RICH!

[bkkyosemite]

180. I was just listening to MSNBC and a Republican talk about

cutting the entitlements.

When President Clinton left the White House there was a huge surplus. Seems to me Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid were doing just fine. Now the talk is all about cutting those programs because they are what has caused this mess. No not true Wall Street, Corporations, Bush and the bunch is what caused this mess. Leave these programs alone you jerks.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

185. A glimmer of hope!

[Blue Owl]

186. Listen to your party, Mr. President

They represent THE PEOPLE who elected you to protect what little we have left, not continue to gouge away at it.

[Name removed]

195. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LongTomH]

188. Is there a list of Progressive Dems who signed this letter?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Name removed]

189. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

191. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[craigmatic]

197. I wonder how seriously he'll take this threat. I also wonder if he wanted their support in the first

place. It seems like he's openly ignoring the dems in the house and playing to the repubs there to make a deal while playing to the Senatorial dems.

[GreenTea]

198. This is NOT the military over-blown tax wasting-People paid into SS every week for 30-40-50 YEARS!

[AllyCat]

201. Another strongly worded letter. Oh goodie.

And then they'll all make some "deal" and vote to gut it anyway. I'm so fed up with this whole cabal I could just scream. I'm enraged that people I have voted for would sell out the American people this way in favor of playing "who wants to be a millionaire?" with the billionaires.

[kelly1mm]

224. Isn't this mostly the same group who vowed not to support health care

reform without a public option? Yep, sure is! Oh well, we see how they stuck to their word on that one.

[woo me with science]

230. K&R nt

[No Elephants]

231. No mention in the letter of Medicare and Medicaid?