High school students earn more credits than those in the past

[alp227]

Source: CNN

Washington (CNN) -- A new report on high school course work indicates that students are completing more challenging courses and taking more credits than they did in the past.

The High School Transcript Study looked at the curriculum choices for the 2009 graduating class at more than 700 public and private schools representing 37,700 students from across the U.S.

According to the study, graduates in 2009 earned three more credits than their counterparts in 1990, amounting to an additional 420 hours of instruction over four years of high school per student. They also took more challenging courses.

The study divided the students into three curriculum levels: standard, midlevel and rigorous.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/12/high.school.credits/index.html

[Renew Deal]

1. I didn't have a very heavy courseload in my senior year of HS.

I think I needed 1 or 2 classes which I could have completed during the summer, but that would have been pointless. I had 2-3 periods off during my senior year.

[exboyfil]

2. The Senior year is basically turning into the first

year of college. My daughters are on course to have AP Calculus (1 or 2 semesters of college credit), AP Chemistry (2 semesters), College Physics (2 semesters). AP English Lit (1 semester), AP English Language (1 semester), College Statistics (1 semester), College Sociology (1 semester), and could probably CLEP up to 2 semesters of foreign language if necessary after 4 years in High School. They will also have 4 years of Music and 4 years of Fine Arts/Journalism/Communication (their choice but classes like Broadcast Journalism, Yearbook, Digital Photography, Drawing). The kids have seven academic periods, and they have to take Early Bird (8th period) P.E. 3/4 of the year as a Sophomore, Health for a 1/4 of a year as a Sophomore, and a 1/2 year of PE as a Junior (new requirement) in addition to the seven classes. Quite a workload.

I had six class periods when I went to school, and one of them was either P.E. or ROTC. I could have graduated in the Summer (I took American Government and ROTC over the summer - if I had taken English instead of ROTC I would have been done).

A key is to get some 9th grade courses in 8th grade (my daughters did/will do Algebra and Physical Science then). For alot of schools this has become the standard 8th grade curriculum. We are fortunate that the 10th grade Geometry is offerred at the 7th-9th Junior High (so the kids don't have to go to the High School). My daughter's 1st period Biology is at the High School, but because of the later start at the Junior High she gets back in time for most of her class. Some kids (like those taking German or French or a higher level math) have to miss a significant amount of time in one period in the transition to the High School (one kid misses at least 15 minutes of Geometry as he is getting to his Spanish II class).

[Bill McBlueState]

3. and yet college professors complain their students aren't prepared

I wonder what's going on. The high school curriculum is seemingly larger and more complex, but students in intro college courses seem to be less prepared than in the past.

[antigop]

5. Go see "Race to Nowhere" -- it will explain a lot

http://www.racetonowhere.com/screenings

[melm00se]

10. what I have seen

is that they enter college not lacking in knowledge but rather the ability to communicate that knowledge.

writing and communication skills are just not there.

[Bill McBlueState]

16. that could explain a lot of it

There's so much emphasis on filling the kids' heads in these AP classes that there isn't time to teach them how to communicate about what they've learned.

[exboyfil]

17. You are so right

My oldest was subjected to an awful English teacher for two years straight (7th and 8th grade). He is a great coach, but he has no passion for teaching English. If I had my way, I would fire him but it is not my choice. Her Social Studies classes were constantly disrupted by the other students so her teachers never had a chance.

This is the reason that my youngest is being Homeschooled in English and Social Studies this year (7th grade) and we plan to Homeschool next year in 8th grade. As a 7th grader she will cover Western Civilization from the River Valley to the Enlightenment (we are watching High School tapes from PBS - The Western Tradition). We do more than watch - we talk about it and she rights about it. She also reads from a woefully inadequate textbook, Glencoe's Human Heritage - a textbook that makes no mention of Ramesses II or the Louis XIV (Sun King) for example.

I have integrated her English with the Social Studies curriculum. By the end of the year she will have read derivative works of The Illiad, The Odyssey, and Beowulf. She will also have read How the Irish Saved Civilization, a juvenile biography of Augustus, parts of an adult biography of Livia, Treasure Island, and The Sword in the Stone. She has watched Oediups Rex and read parts of the play, watched Julius Caesar and read parts of the play, watched the acceptable parts of I Claudius, and we plan to finish up with The Agony and the Ecstasy and A Man for All Seasons. She will have written at least 10 essays for me on various topics including some pretty good literary criticism comparing Oedipus and Percy Jackson and Treasure Island and The Hunger Games. We also have a bunch of odds and ends reading (some Poe like The Masque of the Red Death when we studied the middle ages).

Her peers in her 7th grade English classes will read Hinton's two books (The Outsiders and its sequel) and some short stories/poems. That is it for mandatory reading. They will do very little writing and get virtually no feedback from their writing (I make extensive comments on my daughter's writing). They will only get to the Roman empire in Social Studies and then switch to Geography. You can actually get out of the school system without ever studying the Middle Ages, Renaissance, and Reformation, and you will only get an American centric view of the Age of Exploration going forward. I do plan to study as much Geography as is covered at the public school, and we may watch some more PBS takes on Geography, but I think History is more important.

Is she having fun? I don't know. I asked her if she wanted to take Social Studies and English next year at the public school She said she will stay at home again. I am having a blast. Already on deck for next year is The Scarlett Letter, Red Badge of Courage, Huck Finn, and lots of Poe (she loves Poe). For History it will be up to Andrew Jackson (keeping pace with the public school).

[JDPriestly]

26. I gather you do not work.

I always had to work, so homeschooling was not a choice.

I'm glad I sent my daughters to public schools. First, they have good friends from their high school days (although more from church than from school). Second, my oldest daughter is in a profession in which she has to care for and nurture all kinds of people. Going to a high school in a poor area where there were gangs and difficult kids as well as really wonderful ones taught her how to deal with everyone she meets.

I do not believe in shielding children from the social injustice and reality around us. That is why so many parents homeschool their children. Your case is quite different.

We live in a city so our children were able to take classes filled with children who were also serious about school. Too bad about the coach. The emphasis on team sports is out of place in our schools.

Note that Cal Tech has team sports but their teams are usually the also rans. There is something to be learned from the fact that many of our best scholars are not focused on sports.

I bet you are having fun. That's great.

[exboyfil]

29. Actually I work 50 hours per week

My wife is a stay at home mom, but other than monitoring that my daughter is actually working on my stuff instead of writing, she is not involved much in the education (her interests are in different areas like church work and sewing).

History and writing are my hobbies. Engineering is my profession. I have taken a lot of engineering and business classes in the past while working full time (I have two Masters degrees and an everything but a dissertation for a PhD), but that effort is now directed towards my children. If I was a plumber, I would be communicating those skills instead. I am giving of them the best that I can. I love my job at work, and it gives me the freedom to be with my children more.

My youngest (7th grader) is in public school for 8th Math, 8th Science, Orchestra, Band, PE, Art, Industrial Technology, and Home Economics. My oldest is full time public school. I would never have considered bringing my youngest home for Social Studies and English if it had not been for the experience my my oldest in public school. Her English teacher for 7th and 8th grade was bad, and her Social Studies teachers could not control their classes even though I thought they were well meaning, but had a flawed curriculum.

People Homeschool for a whole variety of reasons. Those around me do because they can give their children a superior education to the one obtained at the public school. My friend's oldest son was a National Merit Scholar so it appears Homeschooling worked for him.

I am not so bold as to say I can do a better job than the public school in most areas. My older daughter's Math and Science teachers have been good to world class. Also the students benefit from the competition.

You can't learn in an English class when the teacher keeps telling war stories about athletics or the disruptions in a History class lead to the teacher shouting in impotence at the class. My oldest is still be cursed in her English classes with such behavior even though she has some pretty good teachers this year as a 9th grader. The students are disrespectful and loud, but, since I want her to get a public school diploma, we are living with it this year. Next year she will be in Honors English which I hope will be different.

My efforts are selective, but I absolutely think that I have the right to go to full time Homeschooling if necessary.

[JDPriestly]

40. I agree with you. Unfortunately, though, most families have two

working parents and cannot choose homeschooling even if it would be appropriate.

Sad that your daughter does not have good social studies and English teachers in her school. Those are such important and interesting subject. And it is great to have a good teacher who stimulates children to discuss their thoughts about what they are learning.

I love American history, and one of my high school classmates became a renowned scholar in American history. That was not a coincidence. We had the same teacher in our American history class in high school.

[JDPriestly]

25. That is because classes are too large.

It is impossible to grade 35 essays a week and make meaningful notations on each one. I watched my husband try to do that with junior college students. You could tell that no one had ever bothered to criticize their writing.

In addition, students have to drill on grammar just as they have to drill their basic math facts into their heads. It's hard to get kids with ADD to focus on a drill.

[melm00se]

44. i have always struggled with this

as when I went to school our class sizes were always in the 35-40 per student range (high school) and depending upon the college class anywhere from 10 (senior seminars) all the way up to several hundred (freshman intro classes).

In college the expectation was that you already knew how to write and if you struggled, it was suggested that you go to the "writing center" for remedial writing help.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

49. I work in higher ed ... our industry advisors tell us the same of our grads ...

... that many (certainly NOT all) lack communication, collaboration, critical analysis and other "soft" skills. And that they would give up some of the technical skills and knowledge (which they - those in industry - are able to teach and in some cases prefer to teach because they may tweak some things to fit their company/industry) in exchange for those soft skills. At the same time, general education/liberal art components of the traditional bachelor's degree - the only place where students in some programs have any courses which incorporate and/or encourage those soft skills - are getting bashed and cut.

I contend that those soft skills need to be introduced in pre-school, then continually used throughout k-12, across all courses. That, however, is expensive and requires change. But that type of cross-discipline curricula really reinforces learning and actually can make it more meaningful to students (speaking as someone who struggled at math until it was put into context as word problems ... boom, made sense to me).

[girl gone mad]

36. They aren't prepared.

The AP courses are generally not as rigorous as what you will learn in a college class. In addition, I think a lot of kids are being pushed too fast into material that they aren't ready for. They end up memorizing a lot of facts in order to pass the tests, but they lack the foundational understanding that is required to really succeed. When I was tutoring college students, I would often get former AP students who did not understand very basic concepts. A lot of these kids ended up turned off of science and higher math because they thought it was too hard for them. They were making A's, but they still didn't understand the material. They would know how to do problems that they had worked before, but they couldn't extrapolate to solve new types of problems. They were generally much more confused about things than their test and homework scores would indicate.

[Massacure]

53. I can only attest to one school, but I disagree with you that AP Courses are not being rigorous.

I'm 23 and graduated college last May.

My senior year in high school, I took freshman level expository composition and western literature as well as pre-calc and calc because my high school had a partnership with a local college where if we got a B in our first three years of English and math classes, we could enroll in those classes for free (they were taught by our high school faculty).

My high school also offered three levels of many science and history class. There was normal, college-preparatory, and advanced placement.
Normal classes were basically for your below average and run of the mill students. I never took both the CP and the AP version of the same class. The way it was presented to us though was that AP covered more material than normal and catered toward the AP test at the end of the year, while CP was the same material as the normal class with more emphasis on reading and writing. My experience is that both were a hell of a lot of work.

My dual enrollment English class required us to turn in five to seven page papers every two to three weeks with a eight to ten page paper at the end of each semester. Those were graded harder than anything I wrote in college.

I had to retake calculus again in college because I got a D in it my senior year. I feel like my class covered much more material when I took it the first time around, which is probably due to the fact that we had five 50 minute classes a week instead of two 75 minute ones. (250 minutes of instruction versus 150).

I definitely did not feel unprepared. My high school student body came predominately from solidly middle class families though. Might that have been a reason for my experience? Maybe.

[antigop]

4. I feel sorry for your daughters.

They are in high school. They are not in college. They should not be subjected to this

[exboyfil]

11. The seem ok with it so far

I make sure they have plenty of time to hang with their friends as well. They have lots of sleepovers, some mall time, dances, church activities, 4H, and Girl Scouts. I am pretty open with how they use their time, but the books come first. My one daughter spends extensive time video editing and the other daughter is a writer. Both are artists. Both love Science. We have a house full of books and they read instead of playing video games or texting. Neither will rely on the public school to teach them to think, I am taking care of it. The school does an excellent job with the Math and Sciences, but a poorer job with Social Studies and English. That is why the younger one is Homeschooled in those subjects for 7th and 8th grade.

My daughters understand the importance of hard work for success. This is pretty typical for the kids at our school - we probably have 15 or so kids out of a graduating class of 350-400 who take this type of curriculum. To give you an idea how competitive it is for college awards. My bosses daughter did something very much like this, she was a 4.0, on the Dance Team, a near or All-State piano performer, a woman engineering student, and she did not receive the highest level scholarship to one of our state universities (full tuition). I also think her ACT was in the low to mid 30s. She was one of about 8 4.0s, and I bet half of them did the same thing with their curriculum. To give some comparison the highest scholarship is about equivalent to Georgia's Hope Scholarship (before they changed it with a requirement of a 3.0). The middle class is taking a beating in this state when it comes to college.

My oldest daughter actually has less of a workload than her best friend. Where my 10th grade daughter is taking Broadcast Journalism and Orchestra, she is taking an Honors project course, an engineering course which will give her college credit, and Orchestra (she will be in Orchestra half time).

I have already committed to them to pay for four years tuition at a state school (assuming they don't dramatically increase the tuition rates). It is up to them to do the rest. The youngest wants to be a doctor, and I cannot fathom how this is going to happen to this point. It is so much harder now than when I was in school.

If they decide to take six classes and PE and drop some of the AP work, I will be fine with it. Whatever makes them happy. I do understand the maxim from Bladerunner:

Deckard: I was quit when I come in here, Bryant, I'm twice as quit now.
Bryant: Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people!

If you are not a professional, you are little people (not saying I like it, but I see the impact on the lifestyle of individuals who are not professionals). That is not to say I think any less of them, and I actually would not mind seeing my daughters marry someone in the trades like a plumber or electrician (jobs which are harder to outsource and involve work that need to happen unlike an ad executive or even an engineer).

[antigop]

12. "Race to Nowhere" --- go see it if you haven't. n/t

[antigop]

14. You can still be a "professional" without taking a bunch of AP courses

I'll say it again -- I feel sorry for your daughters. They are in HIGH SCHOOL.

[exboyfil]

19. But can you get the credential that allows you to work

as a doctor or engineer. When I say professional, I mean to be part of the club that can access higher paying jobs. You don't need AP classes to be smart or well rounded, and it might turn out to be a waste of time when they get to be Seniors. I took five college classes when I was in High School, and it was one of the best experiences of my High School career. I had five classes the summer between my Junior and Senior year, and it was the best summer of my life to that point.

[antigop]

23. I really, really feel sorry for them. n/t

[exboyfil]

33. So what are your kids doing their senior year?

Like I said it is my daughters' choice ultimately.

We live in a competitive world and nothing is going to change that. Perhaps they don't need to do AP classes. I may actually have them go to our local university for their senior year for some classes instead of AP. If the AP classes were not offered, then the public school would pay for these college classes (they already do for several dual enroll classes like Physics, Sociology, and Statistics).

I didn't have AP classes when I was in school (my Senior year will be like my daughters Junior year). I did take five Junior College classes (which frankly were no where near what I experienced as a Freshman at Purdue - they actually were not nearly as rigorous as my Honors English class in High School).

My biggest problem with AP classes is the fact they are not recognized for several majors at the state colleges.

Your kids may not be taking AP classes, but you can be darn sure your neighbors' kids are taking them. Also kids in Japan, India, China and Europe are taking the equivalent of them. Kids from these countries often think our secondary education is a joke to begin with. Globalization rules and it will not change.

[antigop]

37. Go watch "The Race to Nowhere" and you'll see what I mean. I feel sorry for them. n/t

[LanternWaste]

32. I would imagine many students do their best to excel in their studies

I would imagine many students do their best to excel in their studies rather than excelling in goofing off and having fun. I would think there actually are high school students who realize that seventeen and eighteen years of age are a pretty appropriate time to grow up and move away from childish things.

I don't perceive that as a reason to feel sorry for them, rather I see that as a reason to be proud of them...

[antigop]

38. Go watch "Race to Nowhere" and you'll see... n/t

[LanternWaste]

51. Right. Excelling is stupid....

Right. Excelling is stupid.... :eyes:

[antigop]

54. Go watch "Race to Nowhere". n/t

[joeglow3]

6. I also feel sorry for your daughters

A high school classmate of mine started college with 49 credits. I went to the same college as him. While we were having a good time adjusting to living on our own, meeting new people and having fun, he did nothing but study. He was able to socialize much less and developed very few long lasting friends. Additionally, all he did was graduate 2 years before me get to have the fun of working for the man full time sooner. I managed to have all that fun and graduate with honors in 5 years with a Masters in Accounting and am a 10+ year CPA.

[Bill McBlueState]

8. I was like your friend in college

Studied all the time, made very few friends.

Now I have a hot, smart wife and a cute, smart daughter, and I travel all over the world using giant telescopes and meeting with internationally regarded scientists.

Pays to be a nerd.

[joeglow3]

9. Some people like material posessions

Financially speaking, I live a very good life (should surpass a million dollars saved before 40), but find much more happiness with friends and family. And MANY of those friends I met while not living in a study cube for 3-4 years.

[Bill McBlueState]

18. well, true.

I will write my last student loan check and my daughter's first tuition check at approximately the same time. But I can't complain, too much.

[yngdip]

15. :)

too true and too funny!!:toast:

[JDPriestly]

27. Depends on who you are. I am a terrible nerd, and I suffered in high school,

but I am very happy to be a nerd as an adult. It's the greatest.

[JDPriestly]

22. My youngest took a college math course while in high school (and did well).

My oldest took every AP available and performed far better than kids from private schools on tests in courses like chemistry -- graduated Phi Beta Kappa from a university known for attracting a lot of rich kids from private schools.

Nothing wrong with our public schools. Something wrong in a lot of parents.

I used to work with troubled families a lot. It is a wonder that children from some homes even bother to get out of bed in the morning.

[antigop]

24. And I got my Phi Beta Kappa key -- NEVER TOOK ONE AP course. n/t

[Frank Cannon]

43. As did I.

You didn't used to HAVE to take AP or go to private school to be competitive in college. Much has changed in the last few decades. Real education is not a priority in a society that only needs barely functioning worker bees.

[exboyfil]

45. The worker bee class are not the ones taking AP courses

They are the ones taking the non-Honors track classes. The ones who are taking Honors/AP classes are the doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, and PhD professionals of the future. On the other hand those who are good with their hands also can make a very good life for themselves by becoming plumbers, electricians, and auto mechanics.

The vast worker bee population I identify are those struggling to work in retail, food service, nursing assistants, etc. There is nothing wrong with these jobs, but, if you do not have a unique set of skills, you become a commodity whose wages can be forced to the floor. I see that with my sister-in-law who has a Poliical Science/Geography degree and her husband with a History degree. She struggles as a night manager in a hotel, and he keeps going between jobs and is now a janitor. Nothing wrong with either job, but they are not rewarded by society. You would classify their college majors as "thinking" majors (real education) versus the more vocational Engineering and Science majors. Unfortunately for them employers want the engineers and scientists and not Poly Sci/History majors.

The reason you have to take AP courses now is because of globalization. The talent pool is much broader and everyone in the world wants a taste of the good life. It is like unilaterally disarming if you decide not to push yourself in High School.

I keep hearing folks talking about real education is falling out of favor, but my daughters have received, with the exception of English, a much stronger education to this point. The egalitarian decision to not offer Honors Track for 7th-9th grade English has handicapped them in a way in which I was not. I don't think it was an issue with making more worker bees, but a decision to put resources into helping the lower performing children improve. I am not complaining about it. I just decided to Homeschool in Social Studies and English and save that time for my younger daughter. You would find folks on this board arguing that there should be no Honors classes because of egalitarian considerations, but what happens is that important concepts and thinking skills cannot be taught to a general group of students. Our school system is very good, but the disruptions in Social Studies and English prevent any meaningful effort at teaching. It is not a matter of teaching the test. The kids do not want to be there, and they express that desire forcefully. Check at home as to what is going on in those kid's heads. Frankly it was no different when I was in school in the 1970s. Once you get outside of the Honors classes, true education became very difficult.

In general one additional Math and Science course has been added to the expectations for college bound students. PreCalc was common in 1981 as a Senior. Now it is Calculus I (perhaps II if you are really good). In addition to your basic Biology, Chemistry, and Physics, you can add an AP version of Biology or Chemistry. Our High School made the wise decision to offer non-Calculus based Physics as a college credit. You learn the same material in college anyway. If you are ready, then why not take it. It is my impression that the AP courses are like college courses - what is wrong with 17 year olds taking a college class? Some 17 year olds pick up rifles and defend our country. Others have jobs to support their families. Many already have a child. I was 17 when I entered Purdue, and I survived the experience

[antigop]

46. Go. see. "Race to Nowhere". You. will. see. the. impact. on. these. kids.

I feel very, very sorry for your daughters.

[sense]

28. There is something

wrong with many public schools. Despite all the hype about AP classes and such, the schools where I live are day care centers. If you want to learn to think critically, not simply regurgitate what's on the test, you don't go to school. There was absolutely nothing in school for my children. By the time my son was 8 he'd skipped two grades and was a completely different (angry) kid because they refused to teach him at his rate and level of learning. They would only "teach" the planned curriculum, they wouldn't teach the children. We were fortunate enough to be able to remove him from school and let him learn on his own or with others who had some of the same interests and the same hunger to learn. We didn't restrict his learning to the dumbed down garbage served up in school. He did play on high school sports teams. What he "learned" from that was that his age peers were bigoted, sexist and very immature. By the time he left for college he spoke 5 languages, had two years of college credit, a black belt and two green belts and was a very kind and generous person. Oh, and by the way, just for those who're thinking I think I had something to do with this..... I didn't teach him those things. I simply took him out of a repressive and confining "school" and facilitated his education. I followed his lead, let him explore the things he wanted to learn, as kids do before they enter school. The resources are out there, many free or low cost. We have to open our eyes and see that the propaganda passing for an education in far too many schools is hurting not helping our kids.

And by the way, we sometimes get out of bed quite late. Working with troubled families will give you a skewed view of the rest of us...... not an accurate one.

[exboyfil]

35. Of course unless you are certified to teach

in your state the NEA does not want you Homeschooling your child (it is one of their resolutions). Think about that for a minute.

"Instruction should be by persons who are licensed by the appropriate state education licensure agency, and a curriculum approved by the state department of education should be used."

There you go - Big Brother knows better than you on how to educate your children.

[sense]

41. Absolutely right.

The NEA isn't interested in the education of children, just in the jobs for adults. That's who they advocate for at the expense of our children.

[JDPriestly]

39. My children, especially my youngest, once had a math teacher (5th grade)

who simply gave her the books and let her work on her own. It was perfect for her.

Of course, she was not reading enough. But she made up any lack in reading capacity very quickly when she found books she liked.

We are in a city, so we were able to find public school programs that were right for our children. We are very grateful. The standardized test mania that is dominating schools now is just horrible. Teachers should have the freedom to respond to the needs of individual children without forcing them out of the schools.

When I was in school, I was mostly focused on music. That was my path to all my other subjects. I ended up with advanced academic degrees in other fields. But music saved me.

[sense]

42. Music is obviously so important, yet

one of the first things to be cut out when "they" decide that our kids aren't worth it. Very sad.

[AllTooEasy]

7. Good!!! Give 'em more. Less ignorant kids = less Republicans

Two things anger me the most about America's educational system:

1) Underpaid teachers
2) Unchallenged students

LEARN SOMETHING, DAMMIT!!!

[antigop]

13. Go see "Race to Nowhere" -- more work does not equate to more learning n/t

[AllTooEasy]

50. So we should give students less academic challenges?!

[antigop]

55. Go. watch. the. documentary. n/t

[yngdip]

20. I am fairly young

(haven't been out of high school 10 yrs) and I took a bunch of classes, but like lots of the posters have already mentioned: quantity is not better than quality. I went to a pretty good high school, earned good grades, got scholarships for college and grad school, but I think the current system of gathering fancy AP courses and college credits is OVERRATED! Like most things in our modern American society, school has become about consumption and status. Until last year I couldn't tell you if Canada had a Prime Minister or a President. IMO that is valuable knowledge, but all of those APs and Honors courses skip right over basic things like Geography. Our kids are great consumers of information. I don't know how useful a skill that is.

Additionally, the APs, Honors, Gifted, Magnet and countless other classifications become class dividers that unfortunately help to indoctrinate our kids.

Not at all our kids fault though, they are just another pawn in the system we have created for them.

[RobinA]

30. I Find

that many of these kids piling up AP courses don't seem to retain a heck of a lot, so I pretty much agree with you.

[exboyfil]

34. Unless you use it after taking the class you don't

retain it anyway (except for broad concepts). You do know where to look for it later and the relearning is faster. I have relearned Calculus a couple of different times as my career as moved more or less away from an analytical job or coursework. I have relearned lots of history (in each learning I get different things out of it because I have changed as well). Same for literaure (I can't remember exactly the plot to Huck Finn, but I will relearn it when I study it with my daughter next year). I guarantee you if you take Organic Chemistry after AP Chemistry you are going to retain it (unless you have taken over a year off). The same with Calculus I moving into Calculus II.

[LuckyLib]

56. You are wise beyond your years. "school has become about consumption and status."

And all of the fancy programs . . . sorting mechanisms. You are so right: "Additionally, the APs, Honors, Gifted, Magnet and countless other classifications become class dividers that unfortunately help to indoctrinate our kids."

[JDPriestly]

21. Even 15 -20 years ago, my children completed a far more

rigorous curriculum than I did in the 1950s.

The whole thing about our education not being good enough is nonsense.

The "experts" who criticize our schools are comparing the best students in China and Europe to our average students.

I assure you that the middle and high school education of the average European is no better and perhaps worse than that of the average American who bothers to finish high school.

Other countries separate the best students at a fairly early education and focus on their learning the academics. If a student shows no aptitude, they don't get really great opportunities in high school. But if they get into lycee, gymnasium, depending on what they call it in a specific country -- what we call high school and junior college, then they are really put to a test. Personally, I think that is a good system.

[plumbob]

31. Wow, where has CNN been the last half century?

I earned 17 credits to graduate high school in 1971. The students I teach at the same high school now must earn 28 credits to graduate. We could have 4 years of PE count, as well as typing. Now one year of PE only and keyboarding is no longer offered - they are assumed to have the skill.

We COULD take a foreign language - now every student must complete two years of a foreign language. We could take French, Spanish, or Latin. We now offer those, plus German, Mandarin Chinese, Japanese, and Greek.

Are my students much better prepared than I was? Yep. And these are "regular" students, not AP or IB kids.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

47. It may be but

it appears from personal experience that these young people have actually little knowledge of the world around them, of other cultures, of political principles, of science basics, of geography, etc. And don't get me started on writing essays, letters, e-mail correspondence, etc.

[WatsonT]

48. That's because HS diplomas aren't worth much

and freshmen/sophomore years in college are more like what senior year in HS should be like.

[Dappleganger]

52. In our kids high school I noted that they offer far more AP and honors classes

than I'd ever know existed. It was great having that many but made it tough to choose. We opted to go with subjects they weren't as interested in (core classes) so they could get extra help more easily available in high school than college.