Secret memos expose link between oil firms and invasion of Iraq

[Newsjock]

Source: The Independent (UK)

Plans to exploit Iraq's oil reserves were discussed by government ministers and the world's largest oil companies the year before Britain took a leading role in invading Iraq, government documents show.

The papers, revealed here for the first time, raise new questions over Britain's involvement in the war, which had divided Tony Blair's cabinet and was voted through only after his claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

The minutes of a series of meetings between ministers and senior oil executives are at odds with the public denials of self-interest from oil companies and Western governments at the time.

... Over 1,000 documents were obtained under Freedom of Information over five years by the oil campaigner Greg Muttitt. They reveal that at least five meetings were held between civil servants, ministers and BP and Shell in late 2002.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/secret-memos-expose-link-between-oil-firms-and-invasion-of-iraq-2269610.html

[mike_c]

1. when their mouths are moving...

...you know they're lying.

[blackbart99]

122. Now do you see why the oil companies....

suddenly started making 10 billion a year right after the war started? They were filling up their
tankers for nothing and selling to us for exorbitant prices. They were literally making money on both
ends of the transaction.

Not surprised a bit. I was saying this when it was going on and was called a liar.

[robinlynne]

2. how many times may I k&r this?

[emilyg]

49. I tried a million times.

[Jansen]

112. kicky kick and recommend

nt

[rfranklin]

3. Let's look into Cheney's secret "energy" meetings....

Of course, it would be 'ho hum, old news' throughout the medida when it was revealed that Iraq was indeed for oil.

[Enthusiast]

61. The very idea that the SCOTUS

would rule to protect the secrecy of the Cheney energy meeting is incredible. I suspected then the reality of a U.S. corporate government. Nothing since the election of Obama had changed my mind in the slightest. If anything this "condition" has gotten worse.

[Atypical Liberal]

87. I agree. But it's not so incredible.

The fact is, elections are usually won by the person who spends the most money. This makes politicians beholden to whoever "contributes" the most money. They pay back the favor with policies that are favorable to the wealthy people who helped put them in office. This grows their fortunes even more, giving them even more influence.

It's a giant snowball effect. We have a new class of robber barons, except instead of being content to just be captains of industry, they have now figured out it's better to be in control of the government itself.

This is just capitalism in action.

[JHB]

76. Going by past "old news" stories...

...the Beltway punditry will will declare, almost in unison, "Well, everybody knew that! Why are you making a fuss about it now?"

[Botany]

80. According to Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil

this map or one just like it was on Cheney's desk in February /March 2001

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-01-10/politics/oneill.bush_1_roomful-of-deaf-people-education-of-paul-o-neill-national-security-council-meeting?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

[zbdent]

81. I want to know why it was such a "matter of national security" when the energy meetings

took place long before 9/11/2001 ...

Of course, when Hillary Clinton had "secret meetings" on Health Care, the "liberally-biased media" let the Republicans scream and rant and rave so much that she had to release everything those "secret meetings" produced ... in less than two months.

Still waiting for a peep from Cheney's 2/2001 energy meetings ...

[Thunderstruck]

97. It was a matter of national security because they were and are out of

easy and profitable places to produce oil and if that bacame public knowledge it would cause chaos. So, you have a secret meeting with oil companies to plan a takeover of the countries that have oil that is easily and profitably extracted and marketed.

[Shining Jack]

106. Tell that to the deads.

[Raster]

127. I would bet my life that minutes of the super state-secret cheney* energy meetings would show beyond

...a doubt that plans to invade Iraq for it's oil were being formulated BEFORE 9/11, knowing that 9/11 would give the necessary cover to invade a sovereign nation -- which had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

Goddess bless the Brits!

Keep digging! I made the prediction several years ago here on DU that eventually the Brits would begin to unravel THE CONSPIRACY OF 9/11. Keep digging - God save the Queen and FUCK YOU Poodle Blair. Two words: WAR CRIMINAL!

[go west young man]

134. The bastards so corrupt he burned his own office.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. That's two strikes against BP, well there's probably a whole lot more we don't

know about but there's two in your face strikes. The law means nothing anymore.

[lib2DaBone]

5. No Surprise here.. I've been saying that since 911...

Ever since the Invasion of Iraq and the Neocon wars..

Operation Iraq Liberation

[2banon]

23. Add Lybia to the list...

very rich in liquid gold.. superior grade

[global1]

57. Yeah - Didn't PNAC Say We Needed An Event Like Pearl Harbor To Justify This Invasion......nt

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BanzaiBonnie]

65. And I never thougth that was an accident

Someone thought they were being clever. They actually tell what they are doing.

[lark]

109. To me the defining moment was SCOTUS choosing our president

in violation of the constitution and no one did a damn thing. On that day, our country breathed it's last free breath because "they" (ultra rich corporatist)had totally taken over and "we the people" no longer had the ability to choose our leaders. Whoever controls the machines (all heavy Repug donators) controls the votes.

[Raster]

131. The Lords of Money and their allies decreed that a pResidential Administration they controlled MUST

be installed in 2000. The rightful President of the United States would NEVER be allowed to hold office. For their plans to go forward, Al Gore could not be inaugurated President, and when all the dirty tricks were exhausted, they used their bought-and-paid-for rethuglican SCOTUS.

[harun]

176. We do not live in a Democracy, despite playing one on TV.

[Danstags]

6. Why is anyone surprised?

Why is anyone surprised by this? What did people think it was really about? Oil and another version of Pinochets Chile..Chicago School economics experiment 2.0...You can't export democracy to people who don't want it..When will we ever learn that..

[HankyDubs]

8. no one is surprised

this won't even make the news. Is it even newsworthy...since we all knew this long ago?

Welcome to DU!

[Demeter]

13. Just surprised to see it confirmed in writing

[PotatoChip]

58. Same here. K & R nt.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. Kick and effin Rec

:thumbsup:

[bongbong]

9. No!

This can't be! Billionaire businessmen would never lie to us! The repigs assured us of that!!!

[Odin2005]

10. It was ALL about the oil.

[stubtoe]

15. It was always all about the oil.

The Big Lie that started out the 21st century. And none of the perps will ever be prosecuted!

[RebelOne]

26. We all know that. n/t

[reggie the dog]

71. which is why i am taking up growing and selling weed

i am sick of busting my balls to teach and to have incompetent bosses tell us to do utter bullshit and see them get raises and promotions. there is no point in working within the system, i have no connections in high places and that is the only way to get ahead in this world, the only legal way at any rate. fuck em, gonna overgrow and make my money without working. i will not go to jail i dont give a fuck if i have to shoot my way out of it or put a bullet in my own brain i will never go to jail.

[texastoast]

102. Be very careful

And quiet. I have a nephew who did just what you are proposing and he is sitting in jail with a $1M bond awaiting trial.

Of course, what he did wasn't "wrong" at all. It's just illegal, and the alcohol lobby, drug lords, and people in high places on the take want to keep it that way.

[SammyWinstonJack]

139. Gotta look forward, ya know.

:puke:

[tridim]

11. Am I the only one who remembers this?

So Now Iraq Is For Oil, Bush Admits
By Matthew Rothschild
October 12, 2006

At his press conference on Wednesday, Bush brought up the dirty little word three times as a reason for the United States now to stay in Iraq. Throughout the lead-up to the war and well past the fall of Baghdad, oil was the great unmentionable.

But now Bush himself is mentioning it.

At his press conference on Wednesday, he brought up the dirty little word three times as a reason for the United States now to stay in Iraq.

“We can’t tolerate a new terrorist state in the heart of the Middle East, with large oil reserves that could be used to fund its radical ambitions, or used to inflict economic damage on the West,” he said the first time.

“Extreme elements” in Iraq “want to control oil resources,” he said at second reference.

“They’ve got the capacity to use oil as an economic weapon,” he said the third time.

http://www.progressive.org/mag_wx101206

[dixiegrrrrl]

18. When I heard him say "extreme elements, etc" I thought,

he IS being honest. He just is not saying that those "extreme elements " are Cheney and Haliburton and Big Oil.

[freshwest]

38. PNAC was written long before 2006. But the MIC is a sacred cow.

[Thunderstruck]

40. Imagine that, ME countries benefitting in any way from our oil.

[freshwest]

54. How dare they presume such a thing...

:sarcasm:

[PufPuf23]

12. Who would have ever guessed? Sarcasm. nt

[defendandprotect]

14. Doesn't this all stem from the CHENEY White House "energy meetings" where they

made the decisions about "who would get what" before the invasion of Iraq -- ?

[glinda]

44. Bingo!

[defendandprotect]

51. We need to dig up that info -- and combine this info ...

right?

:)

[Qutzupalotl]

110. Here you go.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/story/2002/mar/maps-and-charts-iraqi-oil-fields

From Cheney's 2001 secret energy task force meetings: Maps of Iraqi oil fields and international suitors.

[SpiralHawk]

90. Bingo indeed

[indimuse]

16. KNR! n/t

[Corruption Winz]

17. There's a difference between being surprised to read something and being surprised..

I doubt anyone here is shocked that this was happening. The fact that they were this open (in the long run) about this happening is what is surprising some.

[cui bono]

45. But the fact that nothing will happen because of it will not surprise anyone. n/t

[Corruption Winz]

96. Only the most naive of people will be shouting surprise as no one else in the room makes a move. nt

[Overseas]

19. K&R!

[Octafish]

20. Anyone remember Cheney's secret energy meetings?

Small world: BP and Shell rooting for war.

[OwnedByFerrets]

21. OMG Imagine that....."shocked face look"

[hobbit709]

22. The original code name for the invasion was Operation Iraqi Liberation

O.I.L.

[daleo]

28. Operation Invade Libya works too. n/t

[glinda]

46. They are pretty uncreative aren't they...

[newspeak]

161. you think they got a good laugh of fooling the proles with that one?

I remember seeing a bumper sticker after the invasion on a sick, ignorant a**hole;s truck "kill Iraqis and take their oil." Someone needed to tell that boy that the global corporations get that oil not us and they sell it on the global market. We just get to spend our money and lives to get it for them.

Remember when Little boots publicly stated that he wasn't really interested in OBL? That should have given everyone a big clue.

[libmom74]

24. I'm sure the

MSM will be right on top of this story! :sarcasm:

[PSPS]

25. And Cheney had the oil companies carve up Iraq before we invaded.

They tried like hell to hide them, but here they are in all their horrible glory.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/story/2002/mar/maps-and-charts-iraqi-oil-fields

These are documents turned over by the Commerce Department, under a March 5, 2002, court order as a result of Judicial Watch’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit concerning the activities of the Cheney Energy Task Force. The documents contain a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as two charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and “Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts.” The documents are dated March 2001.

Of course, the corporate Soviet-esque media made little mention of any of this.

[annabanana]

115. Damn shame we're "looking forward". . with these war criminals on the loose. . .n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

140. I wonder how Obama sleeps at night. How does he manage to look himself in the mirror?

:shrug:

[Nihil]

165. Same way that Bush II did (and Clinton and Bush I and Reagan) ...

Just look at your bank statement on one side of the mirror (carrot)
and look at a photo of Cheney on the other (stick).

That way you can easily convince yourself that you are doing the right thing ...

[tosh]

27. It's about damn time

for hard evidence to surface.

[greiner3]

29. DUH!

[madrchsod]

30. cheney was trying to get the sanctions lifted during Clinton's presidency

halliburton wanted back into the oil fields to rebuild them..

[L. Coyote]

31. How many days ago did the Libya bombing start? Where was this then?

[lonestarnot]

32. no shit.

K & R

[Fool Count]

33. In 9 year time we will be reading the same crap

about the "secret memos" before the Libyan regime change operation. You can bet on it.

[50000feet]

34. So there it is.

Memos showing (err, evidencing, indicating, pick your word du jour) your country invaded Iraq with the sole purpose, which I'd guessed long ago (yawn), of stealing their oil.

Let's play this in slow motion, as it were: the US designed to invade Iraq as the latest country among so very many it has invaded to steal and plunder. In the Ayn-Rand-efficient process of doing so, your country, the US:

• created millions of homeless people---refugees who lost home, work, contacts, friendships, security, family, livelihood, neighbourhood, etc.;

• killed god knows how many people;

• poisoned the land and water, not to mention peoples' lungs and innards, with depleted uranium and god knows what else.

And guess what? You're all still benefiting from the Iraq Theft Slash Murder Slash Devastation. Anyone not driving a car these days? Thank god Jean Chretien was PM of Canada when the call to oil companies, err, other countries was put out.

[progressoid]

35. Heads will roll for this.

Kidding.

Nothing will happen. And most people don't care.

:sigh:

[reggie the dog]

72. you are correct, it is not like these people conspired to grow weed

or something else really bad like that.

[electricD]

36. now here's a big DUH!!!...nt

[freshwest]

37. Hope this gives a credence to what many have linked for years. Secret meetings create wars.

[IDemo]

39. No one could have foreseen this

[Enthusiast]

63. And we were supposed to

trust that face? I knew the 2000 election and everything since was a huge lie based on a single glance at that guilty criminal face.

[Zorra]

41. Gosh darn. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, "Obviously Oil", 2003....

Is President Bush's war in Iraq about oil? Of course it is. Sometimes, the obvious answer is the right one: Oil is a major factor in the President's march to war, just as oil is a major factor in every aspect of U.S. policy in the Persian Gulf.
snip---
For what major Iraqi resource has Saddam Hussein denied contracts with the largest U.S. and U.K. multinational companies? (Note, those companies are the #2 (ExxonMobil), #4 (BP-Amoco), #8 (Shell) and #14 (ChevronTexaco) largest companies in the world, and the Bush Administration has been known to listen when large energy corporations speak.
snip--
The answer to all of these questions is oil, of course. Oil obviously drives U.S. policy in the Middle East. So who can doubt that this war in Iraq concerns oil?

Meanwhile, the justifications the Administration has made for this war can be rather easily dismissed. Contrary to Administration assertions, a war against Iraq will not be in self-defense: Iraq does not pose an imminent threat to the United States. It doesn't have the ability, nor has it ever had the ability, to shoot a missile or send a bomber to harm America. Iraq does not possess nuclear weapons. Furthermore, there is no credible evidence that Iraq had anything to do with the terrorist attacks of 9/11.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15359/obviously_oil/?page=1

DK...right on the money once again.

[cui bono]

47. And yet people on this board keep trying to discredit Kooch.

Who was it that got Walker to admit that getting rid of collective bargaining rights would not save Wisconsin any money by making him answer the question?

Kucinich that's who. A constant fighter for the people and plenty of DUers - enough to make it embarrassing - keep trying to smear him.

:eyes:

[Zorra]

53. yeh, it's strange. Here's another of Kooch's greatest hits of 2003:

The Bloodstained Path

America cannot and should not be the world's policeman. America cannot and should not try to pick the leaders of other nations. Nor should America and the American people be pressed into the service of international oil interests and arms dealers.
snip---
We know that each day the Administration receives a daily threat assessment. But Iraq is not an imminent threat to this nation. Forty million Americans suffering from inadequate health care is an imminent threat. The high cost of prescription drugs is an imminent threat. The ravages of unemployment is an imminent threat. The slowdown of the economy is an imminent threat, and so, too, the devastating effects of corporate fraud.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iraq/Bloodstained_Path.html

Same shit, different day.

[dotymed]

82. What a Great Man and one the very few people

who could lead this country out of its present Fascism. (Un)believably, he has been marginalized by the media, TPTB, other politicians and unfortunately, our own Progressive citizens.
Has anyone ever wondered WHY there was never a legal case brought against Osama Bin Laden? He could have been tried in absentia, if nothing else. Honestly, America has the largest, BEST FINANCED (more than all other countries COMBINED), best trained and most deadly military in the world, yet we can not locate one old "freedom fighter" on a dialysis machine in the mountains of Pakistan? Get f'ing real....

[cui bono]

100. But he dared to criticize Obama so he must be ostracized!

Even if he's right. You're simply not allowed to call Obama's actions unconstitutional without being thrown under the bus by a certain group of people. I mean really, the constitution is just a piece of paper, right?

[reggie the dog]

73. but but but, kucinich is loony, aint you heard???

[valerief]

91. Yeah, and Trump is viable and Mary was a virgin. nt

[cui bono]

101. And Obama is a chess master.

I suppose his most genius move is not prosecuting these war criminals. We just have to wait to see how masterful it all is... any day now it's all gonna come together. Be patient now... he's "got this".



:sarcasm:

[Zorra]

105. I think that

this was one of the several RW talking generated about Rep. Kucinich that were generated and repeated over and over by paid trolls posing as "sensible conservative Democrats" on message boards/other. People susceptible to these RW memes then jumped on the trollwagon without actually having resourced factual information about Rep. Kucinich.

(I'm not saying everyone that doesn't like Rep. Kucinich's stance on issues is a troll or a troll monkey. Some people genuinely don't like him or his ideas for whatever reason. Republicans pretty much universally despise him.)

Rep. Kucinich's scathing, fearless condemnation of the lies and corrupt motivations of corporations and the Bush administration, (exemplified by the essays that were posted here, which were undeniably very accurate in their content), as well as other issues involving corporate or government lies and deception made him the target of some of the most powerful enemies anyone on earth could have. The very last thing these RW enemies want is for leaders like Rep. Kucinich to have more power to effectively challenge their agenda.

Since Rep. Kucinich is one of the most directly honest, fearless, and outspoken leaders of the Democratic Party, corporate interests and republicans have specifically targeted him. They targeted the late great Sen. Wellstone the same way.

We need more Dem leaders that will fearlessly speak truth to power, no matter how unpopular speaking the truth makes them to some "groups".

[ooglymoogly]

123. I think that as each day goes by, the citizens of this country are longing

more and more to right the wrongs of this country, to end the kabuki dance, for attacking the corruption when no one in government is. I think perhaps Kucinich's day is soon coming. I think it will be so obvious to anyone with a mind that he is the right man at the right time in history. And we know he will run fearlessly.

[ooglymoogly]

125. wrong place

[Blue Owl]

42. K & R

:kick:

[Cherchez la Femme]

43. Lovely quotes:

* Foreign Office memorandum, 13 November 2002, following meeting with BP:
"...BP are desperate to get in there and anxious that political deals should not deny them the opportunity to compete. The long-term potential is enormous..."

But refuted by:

* Tony Blair, 6 February 2003: "... the oil conspiracy theory is honestly one of the most absurd when you analyse (sic) it..."

* BP, 12 March 2003: "We have no strategic interest in Iraq. If whoever comes to power wants Western involvement post the war, if there is a war, all we have ever said is that it should be on a level playing field. We are certainly not pushing for involvement."

* Lord Browne, the then-BP chief executive, 12 March 2003: "It is not in my or BP's opinion, a war about oil..."

* Shell, 12 March 2003, said reports that it had discussed oil opportunities with Downing Street were 'highly inaccurate', adding: "We have neither sought nor attended meetings with officials in the UK Government on the subject of Iraq. The subject has only come up during conversations during normal meetings we attend from time to time with officials... We have never asked for 'contracts'."


Case closed!
Why, those mega-corps and political tools would NEVER go to war for profits!

But let's hang Saddam and film it anyhow, shall we? It's bound to make us look good!
:sarcasm:

[glinda]

48. Kick

[midnight]

50. Why was this so obvious for so many years, that reading this makes me just ask, what took so long?

[mountainlion55]

52. Oil for blood

Can you say Libya. Can you say light sweet crude? Rage against the machine.

[butterfly77]

55. K&R..

[Le Taz Hot]

56. Oh look!

Britain actually has an investigatory wing of it's government willing to go after the oil companies. You know, we should try that sometime. Not that any of their evidence has anything to do with what the * Administration did here in the good ole' U.S. of A. :mad:

[yurbud]

59. when will we get docs like this in the US?

[Citizen Worker]

60. I thought so. Proof positive that it was the greedy Brits all along. Our supreme court appointed

political leadership would never, never I say, gone to war over oil. It was the weapons of mass destruction, mushroom clouds and the dictator who gassed his own people. We are there for purely humanitarian reasons and the Brits are taking advantage of US!

[Sherman A1]

64. And this is a surprise?

[Solly Mack]

66. Seriously?

Snort

[Zorra]

67. Can we please prosecute Bush and Cheney now?

Hello?

[Mimosa]

190. Why? Seriously, the wars they started are being continued and expanded.

The show goes on despite a change in lead actors. Basic cast, director, producers, extras, etc, remain the same.

[Hubert Flottz]

68. Like we said...War Criminals!

[reggie the dog]

69. weeeeellll nooooo shiiiit!

i told this to people years ago and they said i was crazy.

[paparush]

74. The Face of Terror

(Bush 2003, Campaigning to commit premeditated murder in Iraq)

[Botany]

85. That boy sure liked to play "dress ups"

It would almost be funny except I have been helping an Iraqi war vet
a little bit ..... he has a glioblastoma (brain cancer) from his 3 tours in
Iraq ..... quite a few other vets have it too they think it is from the KBR
burn pits.

People should be in jail for this shit.

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-01-10/politics/oneill.bush_1_roomful-of-deaf-people-education-of-paul-o-neill-national-security-council-meeting?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

[paparush]

86. Shrub looks Quadafi-esque in that pic.

The vets..my god, I don't know how they do it.

My father was a Vietnam vet. He spent 6 mos in country, was discharged for "inappropriate behavior" (god knows what you had to do at the height of the Vietnam war to be discharged for inappropriate behavior?) and he drank himself to death at 54.

[Botany]

88. I call that picture "the cowboy queen"

and that is not meant as an insult to gays or lesbians
..... the son of bitch doesn't even know how to ride a horse.

[amyrose2712]

75. Shocked! I tell you, shocked!

:eyes: :banghead:

[TownDrunk2]

77. Big Oil - the gift that keeps on giving - they all are guilty of murder/treason

[florida08]

78. They told us it was about oil..

Greenspan also tells the Washington Post's Bob Woodward that he actively lobbied the White House to remove Saddam Hussein for the express purpose of protecting Western control over global oil supplies...

Henry Kissinger echoes this view in his op-ed. "Iran has legitimate aspirations that need to be respected," he writes -- but those legitimate aspirations do not include control over the oil that the United States and other industrial countries need.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-weissman/greenspan-kissinger-oil-d_b_64659.html

I remember Kissinger saying.."they have our oil." They wanted Iran as well but Iraq became a quagmire and not the 123 of shock and awe they had anticipated.

Kudos to the still functioning reportorial side of the Washington Post, which on Sept. 15, was the first to ferret out the gem in former Fed chairman, Alan Greenspan's book that the Iraq war was "largely about oil."
http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern09272007.html

Henry Kissinger in 1975 wrote an oped for Harpers magazine titled "Seizing Arab Oil"
http://www.blythe-systems.com/pipermail/nytr/Week-of-Mon-20041227/011140.html

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Botany]

83. But I am sure this will be the lead news story across ...

... the media. Do I need to add this? :sarcasm:

[Blue_Tires]

84. Big Oil has raked in mountains of cash and they never had to fire a bullet

[texastoast]

104. Bush was happy to torture for them

Keep their hands clean, you see.

[valerief]

89. They didn't even need their own Pearl Harbor. And it WAS called Operation Iraqi Liberation. nt

[Hotler]

92. Kicking

[colorado_ufo]

93. What a surprise . . .

[JDPriestly]

94. And the people of the US and the UK are stuck with a financial

crisis and austerity measures while the oil companies of the world used our military invasion to grab Iraq's oil. They drove our countries to bankruptcy and took the oil profits for themselves.

And how much did BP pay the US government in income taxes last year? Could you repeat that please?

[newspeak]

178. yeah, and Ryan's shitty budget plan

wants to give the oil companies about thirty billion dollars of our money, while cutting social services. We see their priorities on the hill, and it's not us or our families. We're just corporate tools to be used, drained and discarded. That's how I feel.

[Bluenorthwest]

95. Obama says: Look forward! Not back!

Turn that page!

[RedCloud]

116. The people say "Look out!"

[Broderick]

98. K and R

[ck4829]

99. Kick

[Ozymanithrax]

103. With no WMD's and clear evidence that governments planned to...

divy up the oil wealth, this puts a stake through the heart of any argument that this was a war of premptive defense. It was, plain and simple, a war of agression.

Such wars are a crime against peace, a war crime. And from what I read in this article, plans to split up the were being made "Washington was quietly striking with US, French and Russian governments and their energy firms." The U.S., France, Russia, and Englad, at minimum, are all part of War of Agression.

"

[No Elephants]

107. Why won't the British look only forward, like we do?

[Blue Owl]

108. Join me in the Pledge of Oillegiance

:(

[FlyByNight]

111. Surprise, surprise!

The eventual cost of this fascistic enterprise will be staggering. Hell, the current cost is enough to make one vomit.

Where are the prosecutions?

:puke:

[bvar22]

113. Stealing the Oil, Part 3....

...is NOW happening in Libya.
"They" didn't even bother to update The Marketing.



If you are not FOR this WAR,
Then you are WITH The Communists AlQaeda Saddam The Terrorists Qaddafi!!!

[annabanana]

114. "there, on the desk, was a map of the Iraqi oilfields, portioned off

for the varying oil companies".

(Where did I read this, back then?)

[Botany]

118. Paul O'Neil former Treasury Secretary

wrote about Cheney's energy task force

here is the map:




It is one of the few documents that got released on a freedom of information act release.

[Recursion]

117. Sorry, maybe I'm missing something

The government talked to oil companies about oil fields in a country that we were about to invade (or "they", this being the UK). And?

[liberation]

129. Are you being sarcastic or serious?

[Recursion]

135. Totally serious

Would you invade an oil-rich country without getting input from the companies that are going to be operating the wells there?

[Zorra]

137. Of course not. If I'm invading a country in order to steal the country's oil for

some companies to develop and profit from later on, I would definitely want their input, since I was already acting on their behalf, probably at their direction, by invading the country to begin with.

That's kind of a no brainer, no?
:shrug:

[Recursion]

141. Well, whatever reason you're invading the country for

Somebody will need to operate the wells.

[liberation]

147. But in this case the reason for the invasion had a lot to do with who gets to operate the wells

It is not a side effect, it is a cause.


Biiiiiiiig difference, sure we can spin this all we want.

[Recursion]

149. Probably, but these memos don't shed any light on that (nt)

[liberation]

151. Same case could be made about your supposition.

[Zorra]

154. Not true. This is true only if someone plans to take the oil. nt

[newspeak]

163. I remember directly after the invasion

the first thing secured was the Oil Ministry and the oil fields. And while all the efforts of securing the fields, the museums were raided, nuclear material was not secured and a great quantity of explosives were taken because it was not secured. The main focal point was on the oil, nothing else!!!

[Recursion]

166. That's a bit simplistic

The oil fields weren't secured nearly as quickly as the media made them out to be (that's the part of the country I was in at the beginning of the war) and no urban sites (museums, etc.) were secured at all because we weren't going into the cities yet other than setting up forward stations. From a sergeant's-eye view of the war, if the point had been taking their oil, we could have done a much better job of it.

[newspeak]

179. sure, they probably could have done a better job of it

UN inspectors were in Iraq, Saddam did not tell them to leave-Little Boots told them to leave because he was going to start blowing up the place. We can pretend it was some glorious justification, and the white house used every fantasy justification they could, but it comes down to THE OIL. Period. Why would they out their own, Brewster-Jennings who monitor WMDS, why would they push the yellow cake forgery-when Joe Wilson denied it? And Colin Powell knew he was talking BS at the UN, because Little Boots, Rummy, Darth Cheney and friends wanted that war with Iraq. Why do you think Cheney, once head of Halliburton held those secret energy meetings?

[liberation]

143. If the reason for our invasion was to take their oil, yes

But I thought the reason was that Saddam was a bad guy and was oppressing the poor Iraqis yadda yadda...

[Recursion]

144. No

Whatever reason you invade an oil-rich country for, you need input from the oil companies that are going to be operating the wells. Whether it's to steal their oil or to get the Saudis, Syrians, and Iranians to do what you say.

[liberation]

150. I think you're using "excuse" as "reason"

If Iraq had no oil, we would have not invaded them to begin with.

The involvement of the oil companies in this folly is/was intrinsic from the get go.

[Recursion]

152. Basically

It's hard to use the word "reason" to describe a strategy as poorly-thought-out as our invasion of Iraq. Taking Iraq's oil would have been a comparatively good reason, since it would have been a clearly-defined objective. As it was it didn't work out too well for the oil companies (and the memos seem to show their concern about that downside). Like I said above the only surprise here to me is that there actually was some thought put into the logistics of phase IV.

[Zorra]

157. Interesting. I'm finding a wealth of information to the contrary.

Iraq the cradle of major oil boom as development begins

One of the biggest oil development booms in history may be starting in Iraq. BP, China National Petroleum Company and the Iraqi state-owned South Oil Company plan up to 100 wells by the end of next year to increase output capacity from the 17 billion barrel Rumaila oilfield, Iraq's largest.

"Development is truly getting under way in southern Iraq, with more and more oil companies and service providers mobilising," said Samuel Ciszuk, the Middle East energy analyst at IHS Global Insight. The companies have awarded US$500 million (Dh1.83 billion) of drilling deals and plan to boost Rumaila's capacity by about 10 per cent to more than 1.1 million barrels per day (bpd). The "supergiant" field was the only one for which Iraq's oil ministry awarded a long-term services contract in its first post-war auction of oil and gas licences last summer. Several more contracts were signed after a second bidding round in December.

ExxonMobil and its partner Royal Dutch Shell planned to raise output from Iraq's 8.7 billion barrel West Qurna phase 1 oilfield by about 13 per cent to as much as 260,000 bpd in the first quarter of next year, an ExxonMobil executive said on Monday on the sidelines of an oil conference in Baghdad. The companies will soon award a contract for a work camp and seek bidders for drilling contracts. Russia's Lukoil and its Norwegian partner Statoil will invest nearly $5bn to develop the 12.9 billion barrel West Qurna phase 2 field, and award several contracts to oil services companies by the end of this year, a Lukoil executive said. The first deal would be for clearing unexploded landmines.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/iraq-the-cradle-of-major-oil-boom-as-development-begins

It is not just BP that is beginning to reap the benefits of the overthrow of Saddam. The group's partners at Rumalia include CNPC, the state-owned Chinese group, and an Iraqi oil company.

Elsewhere, the list of oil companies that now have interests in Iraq reads like a who's who of the world's biggest resources groups.

Total, the French giant that BP professed so much concern about in November 2002, holds a stake in the Halfaya field, which holds a mere 4.1 billion barrels at the best estimate. Other international "majors" from Brazil, Norway, Kazakhstan and a host of other countries also have the rights to vast pools of Iraqi oil.

That the war in Iraq was motivated by oil has been supported by those against the invasion, and denied by all the protagonists, despite some rather sketchy retrospective justifications. What is undoubtedly true is the benefit to the world's biggest oil companies is likely to be profound.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/alistair-dawber-black-gold-rush-was-fuelled-by-enormous-untapped-potential-2269613.html

[Recursion]

168. Yes, 8 years and billions of sunk dollars later

Up until now the war has been as much of a fiasco for oil companies as it has for the military. It's possible that the government will get things stable enough this year to let the oil giants service the drilling contracts (note that any hope of a Nigeria-style division is long gone).

[Zorra]

170. LOL! Oh, please. Let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya for the poor suffering oil companies.

:nopity:
Who do you think you are dealing with here, Fox News zombies?

They wouldn't be there if they didn't know they were going to make a total killing, as long as our government protects their interests.

Why do you think Bush erected a veritable palace in Iraq? As a mission dedicated to feeding hungry crippled Iraqi children?

Or do you think maybe it is a palatial bunker built to protect and serve "titans" of the oil industry in the manner to which they are accustomed as they exploit Iraq's resources to increase their already astoundingly enormous profit?

Bush's Baghdad Palace

Among the many secrets the American government cannot keep, one of its biggest (104 acres) and most expensive ($592 million) is the American Embassy being built in Baghdad. Surrounded by fifteen-foot-thick walls, almost as large as the Vatican on a scale comparable to the Mall of America, to which it seems to have a certain spiritual affinity, this is no simple object to hide.

http://www.thenation.com/article/bushs-baghdad-palace

Here's a picture: http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/NEWUSEMBASSYINIRAQ.HTML

[Recursion]

171. Yes, I've been there. It's a monstrosity

And I saw it when it was about 1/3rd of the size it is now (they had already bulldozed about 4 blocks around it to make room, though).

Who do you think you are dealing with here, Fox News zombies?

No, just people who haven't been to Iraq and have a somewhat simplistic view of how chaotic it is, and who see plans where there was simply nihilistic jingoism.

They wouldn't be there if they didn't know they were going to make a total killing, as long as our government protects their interests.

Well, they aren't there yet, at least not in operation.

Or do you think maybe it is a palatial bunker built to protect and serve "titans" of the oil industry in the manner to which they are accustomed as they exploit Iraq's resources to increase their already astoundingly enormous profit?

No, they hire Subsaharan mercs, mostly, and have their own compounds.

[Zorra]

173. No, I do not believe that I have a simplistic view of how chaotic it is

in Iraq.

It is a war ravaged country with a population that is for the most part hostile to the Western invaders that occupy their country and are appropriating their resources for profit. The climate is nasty and the invasion left a huge mess including armed landmines in many areas. Resistance and sabotage are an ever present threat. And all the other seen and unseen ramifications of occupying a war ravaged country with a hostile citizenry are largely deductible through extrapolation.

I don't need to have gone to Iraq to understand this. It is, naturally, a complete nightmare of chaos and carpetbagging.

Oil companies of course knew they would not be setting up shop in shangri-la after the US/other militaries/countries paid for their invasion and did their dirty work to attempt to set up a reasonably secure environment within which to conduct transnational commerce. They have unlimited resources with which to commit to very long term plans, and construction/production/profit setbacks are just a drop in the bucket for them as far as guaranteed return on investment is concerned.

It may appear to you that the PNAC fools that helped orchestrate the invasion of Iraq on behalf of oil companies were just a group of idiot RW capitalist ideologues, and of course you would be correct.

Vain, shallow, egomaniacal RW idiot ideologues are easily manipulated, and are particularly susceptible to influence by wealthy economic interests.

No memos will be found regarding the deals that occurred between the RW ideologues and oil companies that "prove" oil companies provided the impetus for the invasion. And you are correct, the memos that have recently been found do not absolutely "prove" that oil companies were directly responsible for ordering the invasion of Iraq.

But the recently found memos do prove that both the governments of GB and the US, as well as major oil companies, lied about their intentions, or lack of intentions, with regard to Iraq's oil, and even lied about the meetings that the memos arose from.

The reality is that it is beyond naive, and beyond logic and reason, to even consider the possibility that oil companies were not primary motivators and very possibly the catalysts for the invasion of Iraq.

Because no tangible evidence exists that could change my POV on this issue, and most circumstantial evidence points to the probability that my POV has a high probability of being accurate, any further discussion of this would be recurrent recursive recursion for me.

[Recursion]

174. The oil in Iraq is less important...

...than the oil around it. PNAC's geopolitical idiocy would have been no different if Iraq had no oil (so long as Kuwait, SA, and Iran still had oil, and so long as Syria and Jordan still bordered Israel).

[newspeak]

181. I remember when they formed the parliament in Iraq

You do know that Iraqi's oil was nationalized? It seems that one of the acts in parliament was to give the rights of the oil fields to the corporations. Well, there were quite a few in parliament that didn't agree with that notion--I remember Little Boots on TV saying the Iraqi parliament wasn't in agreement with policies and that they would be staying there until things were resolved.

Sad that a "clearly defined objective" of taking someone's assets could leave such devastation and cost of human life (for all) for one's objective. We once called that stealing or "coveting thy neighbors property."

[newspeak]

180. Hitler preemptively attacked countries to secure their resources

We preemptively attacked Iraq, period... The immediate threat scenario, Saddam has WMDs and he can attack us within how many minutes shite, after 9/11, even though Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, fed into our fears-the WH was shoveling the fear. They wanted war with Iraq-war mongering chickehawks wanted war with a country which did not attack us. The commander in chief put our soldiers in harms way-it is supposed to be the last resort.

[Zorra]

130. Here's a clue:

BASRA, Iraq (Dow Jones)--Royal Dutch Shell PLC (RDSA) along with its partners, Malaysia's Petronas and the Iraqi state Missan Oil Co., will start drilling the first new well in the super-giant Majnoon oil field in July, a company executive said Thursday.

"Shell is targeting July 2011 to spud the first well," Ole Myklestad, managing director of Shell in Iraq told reporters in Basra.

Between 15 and 20 wells will be drilled in Majnoon oil field in southern Iraq and some 27 others will be refurbished to bring output to 175,000 barrels a day by the end of next year from the current 60,000 barrels a day, Myklestad said. The new wells and the refurbish work is part of an early production plan.

The well drilling is part of a contract Shell and its partners signed with U.S. service giant Halliburton Co. (HAL) and the state-run Iraqi Drilling Co. last year.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110331-710198.html

[Recursion]

136. You mean we had a plan for getting the oil back flowing in Phase IV?

I suppose given how shoddy the war planning was it's a surprise, but it would be irresponsible not to get the people who will be running the wells involved, don't you think?

[Zorra]

138. Absolutely! see post #142. nt

[gateley]

133. I haven't read the OP but I believe (from what I've heard previously) that they were

"dividing up the spoils" even before 9/11 occurred, which must have been a "gift" to them -- They were handed a "reason" to invade.

[liberal N proud]

119. Just reaffirming our suspicions

We all were pretty damn sure the reason for war was oil, so this is just confirmation that we know what we are talking about.

[Recursion]

148. How?

Seriously, I don't see that. How do these memos clear up the (mis)reasoning behind the invasion for you?

[Major Hogwash]

120. We wouldn't have invaded Iraq if they would have only had lots of kumquats

No market for them.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

121. Worst kept governmental secret, ever.

[mistertrickster]

124. We knew it then. Now finally the proof emerges. I hate being right. nt

[ooglymoogly]

126. For those of us who knew this from the beginning,

who saw through 9/11, who recognized there was no extreme to far for Cheney's malevolence, this is just an I told ya so moment; and a damn sad and hopeless one at that. Fascism is here, elections are frauds, and the war on drugs (aka the war on the harmless maryjane). a war fought for the real drug cartels and liquor cartels running this country and is the proof of that fascism for even the blindest among us.

[Recursion]

146. What exactly does this demonstrate to you?

I don't see any sign here that the government was wavering about invading and oil companies convinced them to; I see that everybody was clear that there was going to be an invasion and different oil companies were looking for different pieces of the aftermath.

[ooglymoogly]

159. I see that you are naive...I think you invalidated your own statement.

The government is controlled by monied interests which include the oil giants. You might even say the monied interests ARE the government. Does the military industrial complex have any meaning for you. To suggest the war on Iraq was not a war of choice for profit
and mounted for profit and power according to a preconceived plan; conceived long before the invasion, is indeed naive. Who do you imagine ramped up this war and for what reason?

[Recursion]

167. Luckily I didn't say that

To suggest the war on Iraq was not a war of choice for profit
and mounted for profit and power according to a preconceived plan; conceived long before the invasion, is indeed naive.

Luckily I didn't say that. I said it wasn't waged for oil. Ta ta now.

[dwig3d]

128. Oh the smell

This has a Bush/Cheney stank all over it.

[abqmufc]

132. OK so what, it's pretty common knowledge and yet the people do nothing...

but watch American Idol and other reality TV shows. All this proves is they can be corrupt, we can know about it, and they still do it and get away with it.

Wake me up when "we the people" actually want to do something about it...until then I am sure the masses will complain during their commercial breaks.

[freshwest]

142. Anyone with a brain knew it was about the oil. Lying must not pay as well now as it did then, huh?

[Recursion]

145. How does this show it was about the oil?

It's not like the government was hesitant to invade and BP said "you should really do this." It's that the government already knew they were going to invade and BP was asking "what can we do to get some of the fields so that it's not all in French hands?"

[freshwest]

155. Our governments may be subsidiaries of BP, they certainly act above the law, don't they?

[Wednesdays]

156. ...

[Zorra]

158. LOL!

A picture is truly worth a thousand words.

[newspeak]

182. you're still not hanging on to Saddam has WMD's

and could attack us at any time bullshite are you? You're still not believing that Saddam had anything to do with AQ are you? So, tell me why would the government invade killing thousands of people, including children and destroying an infrastructure--were they a direct threat, did they attack us?

Hell, but we sure did SA a favor didn't we? The saudis were no friend of Saddam's, we closed one of our bases in SA which seems to be a favor to OBL. Now here's a country with one of the worse human rights records and they're an ally. Fifteen of the nineteen alleged terrorists were Saudi. And, Bill Moyer had a terrorism expert on one of his shows and the expert stated that some of the bombings and killings in Iraq were by saudis crossing into Iraq.
Kind of ironic isn't it that Selim Bin Laden was a friend of the Bushes, that he gave money to Little Boots for one of his businesses. Of course, OBL is an outcast from the family.

[Recursion]

183. No, I'm "hanging on" to Iraq's physical location

Even if Iraq had no oil, PNAC would have wanted to attack it (as long as SA and Iran still had oil and Jordan and Syria still bordered Israel).

[Zorra]

185. Please, clearly, and succinctly, state the point you are trying to make. What is

the primary reason(s), in your opinion, that Bush and the PNAC invaded Iraq?

No offense, but this is like trying to get Reagan to give a straight answer at the Iran-Contra hearings.

[Recursion]

186. Umm... exactly what I said

The main purpose was to scare Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria (and to a lesser extent Jordan) into doing what we say. For a board that complains so much about neoconservatives we seem surprisingly unfamiliar with what they actually write.

[Zorra]

188. No. We have learned, through long experience, to never believe what they write,

or what they say.

They are murderous, conscienceless sociopaths, many of whom are disciples of Leo Strauss.

Lying, greed, violence, corruption, and deception are their consistent modus operandi.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

153. On the lead up to the Iraq War I carried a sign that read,

'NO BLOOD FOR OIL", sadly, it's still running out of the bodies.

[newspeak]

160. General Smedley Butler was correct!!!

War is a racket--it should burn everyone's bum that we are the ones paying for this bogus war with lives and money for global corporations. It doesn't benefit us, but we get to pay so that corporations can raid while we get screwed at the pump. Hmm, this reminds me of a scene from Good Will Hunting.

Our country is drained by the most greedy, worthless sociopaths so that they may reap why we suffer. And, now we have those in congress saying that WE have to sacrifice--as I see it, we're doing all of the sacrifice, while the leeches reap the rewards. They spend billions on so called security, while some goes to private corporations who's only purpose is to make profit--how about the security and well-being of the populace, how about the security of the infrastructure? I'd say there are a whole lot of people in this country who are less fearful of a terrorist attack now days-they are more fearful of losing jobs, of finding jobs, or just making ends meet.

And these repuke governors have crossed the boundaries pertaining to the ideals of the founding fathers. Ousting elected officials and installing your own man (so that they can sell off parts of the public land (that benefits all) to the wealthy---busting labor? We live in very interesting, corrupt times and the robber barons have reared their ugly heads again in full force (the curtain has been pulled for all to see and they don't give a damn because they know that they are in charge).

[shanti]

162. you don't say!

:eyes:

[newspeak]

164. yes, I do say

and I have a family member in the military that has been in Iraq and now Afghanistan.

[shanti]

175. sorry

what i meant was that we all knew it was about the oil long ago....thanks for your family member's military duty, and hope he/she comes home soon!

[newspeak]

177. sorry for the misinterpretation!

:hi: I just want him to come home-he's got a wife and two small kids. My eyes are wide open about how they bamboozled the american public with the help with a very complicit media-corporate media, some who have made big bucks from this war because they're in the defense industry.

Remember the first misquote was that Hussein had WMDs and could attack America-remember the yellow cake forgeries and then the outing of Brewster Jennings? Then Saddam had ties with AQ-now we know that was not true because Saddam didn't trust AQ-and I remember right after 9/11 it was Saddam they showed on TV basically saying that his people were with America and offered help (attempting to gain Points, who knows). So, it was the WMDs, Saddam with AQ, then Saddam is a bad man and we need to liberate the oil, I mean people. Well, Saddam may have been a bad man, but so was Pinochet, and it appears our right wingers loved them some Pinochet-they once loved Saddam.

It was the oil, it's always been the oil. Like I said we pay our money and lives so that global corporations can reap the benefits--we do not!

[florida08]

169. There's going to be broadcast tomorrow

The movie, FUEL, that airs on CNBC television Thursday night, April 21st, documents secret meetings held before 911 and shows documents with maps of Iraq oil pipelines used at those meetings, all denied in U.S. Congressional hearings by those involved.

http://www.examiner.com/human-rights-in-national/documents-prove-bp-involved-secret-plans-to-exploit-iraq-oil-pre-invasion

[Botany]

172. Good thing all the networks covered this last night

:sarcasm:

[Hotler]

184. kicking! n/t

[KansDem]

187. Well, now...where does 9/11™ fit into this?

Mere serendipity?

[Zorra]

189. kick

[Imagevision]

191. Reason for US. troops in Iraq - to protect oil rigs from suicide bombers...