Wash. considers annual flat fee for electric cars

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Wash. considers annual flat fee for electric cars
By: ROBIN HINDERY 04/22/11 5:59 PM
The Associated Press


Drivers of electric cars may have left the gas pump behind, but there's one expense they may not be able to shake: paying to maintain the roads.

After years of urging residents to buy fuel-efficient cars and giving them tax breaks to do it, Washington state lawmakers are considering a measure to charge them a $100 annual fee — what would be the nation's first electric car fee.

State lawmakers grappling with a $5 billion deficit are facing declining gas tax revenue, which means less money to maintain or improve roads.

"Electric vehicles put just as much wear and tear on our roads as gas vehicles," said Democratic state Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen, the bill's lead sponsor. "This simply ensures that they contribute their fair share to the upkeep of our roads."





Read more: http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/2011/04/wash-considers-annual-flat-fee-electric-cars

[cutlassmama]

1. $100 a year isn't much.

[Honeycombe8]

15. To YOU. It is to some others. And a $100 yr tax would soon become a $200/yr tax...

and then a $300/yr tax. (Unless you're a billionaire, in which case someone in the Bush family would make your taxes go down.)

[CreekDog]

36. on a $25,000 car?

you are losing your grip.

[valerief]

2. Why not use some of the federal WAR money for the roads, since the need for less oil

means the need for less WAR?

[Ramulux]

3. This is bullshit

This is punishment for people who are trying to save our environment. These states have budget problems because of unemployment, we have unemployment because our federal government refuses to do anything about it and they refuse to do anything about it because our politicians are bought by corporate interests who don't care about this country.

This is a solution to a problem that only exists because our politicians are corrupt retards. We should be giving tax credits to anyone willing to buy electric cars, and removing all subsidies to oil companies who keep gas prices artificially high while making massive profits.

We need to learn to live without tax revenues from gas because it is going to continue to decrease regardless of what we do. We should be encouraging the transition to electric cars because the less money people are spending on gas the more they are spending on food and rent and other industries that really help our economy.

[cstanleytech]

6. I respectfully disagree.

Its not punishment for "people who are trying to save our environment" because all cars even electric ones wear down the roads, its just that simple really.

[blackbart99]

8. Really....I thought that the car registration was ...

"THE TAX" designed to pay for our roads. After the $100.00 fee then the registration should be included.
This is a double tax.

[Honeycombe8]

12. You betcha. That and MANY other taxes. An electric car tax will KILL electric cars. nt

[kelly1mm]

35. Partly, but the main source of road funds comes from gas taxes, both

state and federal. Are those driving ICE cars being double taxed as well since they are paying registration and gas taxes?

[Honeycombe8]

11. I pay OTHER taxes for road maintenance! Quite a lot of them!

Part of my property taxes (which run over $5,000 a year!!!!) goes to pay for road maintenance. My property taxes consist of local, ISD school, and county taxes (incl. road maintenance).

I pay quite a lot in INCOME TAX, part of which goes to the federal budget for infrastructure.

Then there are sales taxes, which go to state and local agencies for various purposes.

And on and on and on and on.

Now we're seeing the REAL reason that green technology hasn't made more gains in our country.

And NO....electric cars don't beat up a road as much as an eighteen wheeler or Hummer or Camaro. They putt-putt-putt down the road at a reasonable rate of speed, going softly into that gentle night.

A tax will KILL electric cars.

[Ramulux]

41. Did you read what I said?

I never said electric cars dont wear down the road, I said that we should not be punishing people who are trying to save our economy and environment and reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

Heres a simple explanation. Electric car owners spend a lot less money on fuel, meaning they have more to spend on other things that matter like food, rent, charity, and entertainment all of which are taxed. Therefor electric car owners are contributing to the economy much more than people who are wasting huge amounts of money on oil produced by oil companies that pay no taxes. If everyone in this country drove electric cars and spent considerably less on fuel they would spend that money in other more important worthwhile industries and thus massively boost the economy. Its pretty simple really.

As I said there is more than enough money out there to balance the budget and make sure all the roads are in top shape without this stupid tax that serves as a disincentive to people looking to make the switch to electric.

[CreekDog]

37. One thing I don't understand --maybe you can help me out:

I'm all for increasing incentives for electric vehicles.

What I don't understand is yours and many Americans almost apoplectic reaction to a fee or tax for the government to do things related to your car.

Is all that crap supposed to be done for free?

[Ramulux]

46. Read my post

I am simply saying that it is in the entire countries best interest to provide as much incentive as possible for buying an electric vehicle. It is possible to pay for our roads and and what not using taxes from other industries and areas of commerce.

The tax is not necessary because using an electric vehicle saves the consumer money which they can then use on other products and devices which can also be taxed. What I'm saying is that electric car users are spending the money they would spend on gas on other products.

States dont have deficit problems because of reduced tax revenue from gas, the argument for why they need to apply this tax in the first place is absurd and false.

[jmowreader]

42. This is a replacement for the hidden road tax you pay at every fillup

I would rather they charge road tax based on the number of miles driven rather than a flat fee--maybe put a USB port on the car to pull off the odometer reading. This is because some people REALLY use their cars. There's a couple in Coeur d'Alene, ID, who have a Tesla Roadster. About once a month they drive it to Seattle. They drive the car from CDA to Ellensburg, WA, recharge at an RV park then drive from there to Seattle. That's 7500 miles of hard driving over the course of the year, plus all the around-town stuff, trips to Spokane and so on they do. If someone is putting 20,000 miles on the car every year and paying $100 per year in road tax, that kinda screws the guy who goes 5000 miles a year and pays $100.

[eppur_se_muova]

4. Try a tax on tires, proportional to expected lifetime of tire.

i.e. 50,000 mile tires taxed 2.5 times more than 20,000 mile tires. NOT a percentage of tire price.

Others have already proposed this. It has the obvious virtue that your tax is roughly proportional to the wear & tear you put on the roads.

[Demit]

18. Wouldn't that encourage people to drive around on bald tires?

[IndyJones]

5. Oh yeah, let's NOT attempt corporate tax reform, instead let's pretend

to give the middle class a break but then nickle and dime them on everything else to collect taxes. Right...that makes perfect sense. Let GE pay nothing, but everyone else should pay more. Gotcha, President Obama. Thank you for looking out for the middle class every chance you get. (/sarcasm)

[cstanleytech]

7. Umm but werent the tax codes

that GE exploited (immorally imo) that you seem to be blaming Obama for written long before he even became president?

[blackbart99]

9. Obama is in charge now....

He can send a memo or something to the IRS to investigate...but he doesn't. At least not that
we know of.

[Honeycombe8]

16. Separation of powers....the executive branch of the federal govt cannot interfere

with state and local governments. Otherwise, he would've stopped AZ from trying to pass a birther law.

Some people don't really understand that the President can't, and shouldn't, get involved in every matter in every state and local government.

Now, CONGRESS is another matter. They could pass a federal law, trying to prohibit states from taxing EVs. I doubt it would make it through a lawsuit as constitutional, though. The federal govt can't REALLY interfere with states' taxing rights.

[cstanleytech]

31. Overall thats roughly what I was thinking

and it makes me wonder why people continue to lash out at a president regardless of the party of that president for stuff that was set into place by congress and the senate before he became president over which he has little to no control of and which the president cannot change on a whim because he isnt a king or an emperor and he doesnt have that kind of power.

[Honeycombe8]

13. Consider MY case, as I ponder getting an elec. car for my old age.

I'm a planner. I am single with no one else to help with finances. I'm in my late 50's. So, as I plan for my old age, I'm considering getting an electric vehicle, or a plug-in hybrid. Not just for the environment and to save $ on gas. That's part of it. But also, I'm thinking that as much as I can cut regular expenses down, I am more secure in my old age. If I have to run to the store, and I'm out of $$$ for gas (let's say that gas is $10 a gallon by then), then I can get to the store if I have an electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid. Maybe the store's too far for me to walk, or my health isn't good enough, or the weather's too bad, or what I have to get is too heavy for me to carry back.

So if the govt starts TAXING electric vehicles, there goes the very reason I would have for buying one in the first place! Even though $100 doesn't sound like much, to an elderly person on a fixed income, it could matter. And a $100 tax has a way of turning into a $200 tax sooner or later. And then $300, and so on.

[Yo_Mama]

20. Yes, but

The question is whether you will be better off. The tax involved is much less than gas tax, and you will still need decent roads when you are older. Even more so, really.

With gas at over $4, we are not going to stop buying higher efficiency vehicles including electric/hybrids. It does save money. Since that is the case, we need to figure out how we are going to replace lost gas revenues.

Yes, if everyone starts buying electric cars, the electric car tax or whatever they impose is going to go up. But you are still going to be better off than if the roads were crumbling. A public good is a good that we benefit from; paying for it on net makes us better off.

[quakerboy]

48. WA State VS federal taxes

2 different issues, I do not find your conflation helpful.

[jtuck004]

10. I'm waiting for the bicycle fee. Lots of money being spent to repaint

roads, certainly in the hundreds of thousands of dollars for labor and materials to change 4 lane roads to 2 lanes and put a bike lane next to the curb in each direction.

I'm sure we will hear "This simply ensures that they contribute their fair share to the upkeep of our roads."

Unlike cars they pay no license or "road maintenance" fee, which is in addition to the fees listed in the OP. And the states are looking for revenue everywhere.

[Honeycombe8]

14. How about a fee for me to use my LEGS to walk to the store? After all, I'm tearing up that road...

with my tennis shoes.

And I DO walk my dogs several times a week, which surely wears down that asphalt!

$100 a year isn't much. Esp considering the harm my legs are doing!

[Yo_Mama]

21. Their claws really tear up that asphalt!

LOL. But who knows. The states do need revenue.

You can walk your dogs off the road. I haven't seen an electric vehicle that doesn't need roads. In any case, let's not tax the poorest.

[jtuck004]

38. And they will have to tack that license plate on you somewhere. Ow.

Or maybe we just wear collars with tags like our dogs.

[eilen]

17. I live in NY

We already have a tire tax, we have toll roads, we have a high sales tax, state income tax, and property/school taxes. We are taxed sideways and backways with surcharges, and fees. We have 5th highest gas rates. We are taxed to the nth degree. No thanks. Just end a war or two and there will be plenty of money.

[cstanleytech]

28. I highly doubt ending the war would really solve the money problem

because the money spent on it is a drop in the bucket overall to what the government is wasting on overpaying for stuff, now trimming the defense budget by 400 - 500 billion might help as well as wiser spending and ending of earmarks by both dems and republicans but I doubt we will see any of that happen.

[Yo_Mama]

19. Something of the sort has to happen

Washington state gas tax was supposed to go to 37.5 cents by 2008 from the 2005 legislation. That means that if you use 10 gallons of gas a week, you pay $195 annually, $390 for 20 gallons, etc. In a car that gets 30 mph 10 gallons is about 300 miles a week.

Many states are considering either taxing mileage or something like this; the shift to more efficient vehicles means that real gas tax revenues are dropping and the funds are still needed. Even bikers use the roads!

Electric car users will still be saving a lot of money on gas and getting a relatively good deal, so I don't see this as a problem. It certainly wouldn't stop me from buying the vehicle I hope to buy.

Roads and bridges are a public good, and that means we all shouldn't kick at paying for them!

What troubles me about flat taxes is that at least the gas tax was roughly proportional to net wear and tear (larger vehicles used more gas and wear roads more, smaller vehicles use less and wear the roads less). A flat tax would impose the same burden on a person who drives 100 miles a week as a person who drives 500 miles a week. I realize that the mileage tax is hard to administer, but it would be a better way of handling things.

A Volt and a Hyundai Accent are going to put about the same wear and tear on a road. There is no reason why one should pay for road upkeep and the other shouldn't.

[cstanleytech]

30. That mileage tax might be the best way to go about it

that is the fairest because it taxes those who use the roads the most, the problem is how do they implement it in as cheap a manner as possible as well as make it so people cant cheat on it say by selling the car before the tax is due.

[Yo_Mama]

40. At one point

One of the states, and I think it was WA, was thinking about a GPS system that was supposed to track how many miles each vehicle was traveling. Aside from the civil liberty issue, that seems over elaborate and very expensive.

Because we are cutting gas/miles, my guess is that many states will go to a flat/mileage system, in which they check your mileage at registration and then impose a fee calculated by mileage.

I have always driven gas sippers, and while it is pleasant at the gas station, these vehicles can easily get torn up on bad roads. They are smaller and lighter, and the tires are smaller, so big potholes tend to be more of a problem. I'm perfectly willing to pay for the roads being kept in repair. Over time it will save me money. If I put more money into an electric vehicle, I'll want my larger investment protected with good roads. There really isn't any free lunch.

[quakerboy]

49. It would seem more sensible to make it part of the registration cost

They check the Odometer at vehicle registration. They recheck it during emissions testing, at least in this area.Granted a full electric shouldn't need emissions testing, but I assume they will still need tags renewed. It seems to me that it wouldn't be too hard to require that to be checked on request of new tags, and to charge by the mile on a regular(but not annoying annual) basis without having to do anything GPS or otherwise expensive or invasive.

[w4rma]

22. That is stupid. Completely stupid. (nt)

[Warren Stupidity]

23. And in other news

Nut Hampshire proposes charging non-smoking teatotallers an annual "healthy living" fee to make up for lost revenue. "It is high time these people pay their fair share" said state senator Luther (nutbag, religious), "some of them are vegan hippies". Others were not so sure.

[madokie]

24. But its the big corporations trucks that tear our roads up

One day of an overloaded truck does more damage than an ev ever would in its lifetime

[Warren Stupidity]

25. shhh

local roads are a major town expense, then again at least around here we don't get one dime of gas tax money to help us keep our local roads up.

[Honeycombe8]

34. True. And the fed has agreed to let Mexican commercial trucks into the US w/o inspection or

payment of fees! Many are, and will be, in horrible shape, are hazardous, dangerous, and tear up the roads. All in the name of big bid'ness.

I'm all for Mexican business. But why should we allow non-inspected trucks,or trucks not up to American safety standards, on our roads, to tear them up, get in accidents, and not have to spend the $$$ to keep their trucks up, the way American commercial trucks have to.

[harun]

26. Fail

[Aerows]

27. I have a better idea

How about all of those corporations that paid no taxes, but used our roads to ship their products pay for it? Once again, they are asking citizens to pick up the tab, and corporations get tax credits and subsidies.

Upon consideration, I have to believe that GE makes some of the parts for electric cars, since they are involved in making electric parts for just about everything. Let GE foot the bill for each and every electric car.

I'll be honest, I thought this was going to be one of those deals where they let electric car owners pay a flat fee for electricity, which would provide an incentive to move away from gas guzzling. I should have known better. sigh.

[Skink]

29. That Vat tax is looking pretty good right now.

[Zorra]

32. Regressive. Don't punish people that for being environmentally responsible.

Aren't we the folks that are trying to keep conservatives from destroying the planet?

Punishing people by taxing them for owning vehicles that use less fossil fuels and create less pollution is a very GOP conservative idea, IMO.

Find the money somewhere else.

[prete_nero]

33. The tax is fair.

Don't make this personal, look at it from the financial point of view. Roads cost money, that money comes from taxes. When you buy less or no gas you don't provide the money to pay for the roads.
In the end I really doubt anyone can manage paying less than $100 in gasoline tax in a year...if you DO drive that little I can't really understand the investment in an electric car. Get a bicycle or carpool maybe?

WA gas tax (from internet) .37
$100 proposed fee.
How many gallon tax to equal 100? About 270.
If your car gets 30mph thats 8100 miles.

So unless you would drive less than 8100 in a year this is not a tax increase.

Then again my math might be wrong, not really my strong subject...the point is think about it, don't just be tax = HATE.
We must all pay for what we use!

[Dappleganger]

39. Don't have a problem with this.

We need to pay for things to be used, upgraded or replaced and this is fiscal responsibility.

[AndyTiedye]

43. They Claim the Electric Cars Beat Up the Road Just as Much as Any Other Car

Highly unlikely. Electric cars are lighter and use low rolling-resistance tires, so they should be much gentler on the road than other cars.
Of course it's the big (often overloaded) trucks that really thrash the roads, but nobody wants to talk about that.

[wordpix]

44. how about taxing SUVs more than cars?

[DeadEyeDyck]

45. So, let me see if I can make sense out of this.

I buy a car that costs much more than the gas guzzler and therefore pay a lot more sales tax. I drive it by using less gas than those that spew gas exhaust into the atmosphere. I still have to charge my car up and pay all kinds of taxes when I use all the additioinal electicity.
In my wake I leave a much cleaner environment and have consumed less oil. So for all that, I am being penalized with a special tax since I don't pay for the gas that I never burn!!

[Ter]

47. Cal it what it is, a tax

I'm sticking to gas cars for spite now.