NRA boss: 'Big gun' states will toss Obama

[onehandle]

Source: Philadelphia Inquirer

Ahead of the NRA convention that kicks off today, the leader of the group predicts President Barack Obama will be defeated in 2012 – and the “big gun and hunting” states are going to deliver the fatal blow.

“The truth is this election is going to be decided in all the big gun and hunting states,” Wayne LaPierre, the National Rifle Association’s executive vice president and CEO, told POLITICO.

LaPierre, speaking on the eve of the NRA’s annual two-day convention in Pittsburgh, believes the 2012 race is shaping up to be a lot like the 2000 presidential election, in which President Bush’s victory over Al Gore was attributed in part to the perception that the Democrat was “anti-gun.”

“You’re looking at a parallel-type election coming along where it sure looks like the Republican nominee is good on the issue – though we don’t know yet who that’s going to be,” he said. LaPierre predicted states like West Virginia, Tennessee, Ohio, Arkansas, Colorado, Minnesota and Wisconsin will be the kingmakers next year.

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/politico/RSS_POLITICO20110429_NRA_boss___Big_gun__states_will_toss_Obama.html

---

This is too important to be buried in the gungeon.

The NRA has revealed how far they will go to defeat Democratic President Obama in 2012.

I hope the admins read this and ban promotion of this GOP front group at Democratic Underground.

This is one of the NRA's attack sites from 2008. Next year it will be much worse and much more racially charged:

http://www.gunbanobama.com

[Turbineguy]

1. Their help with the 2000 election

worked out well for the world. Didn't it?

[rfranklin]

2. Yeah, it helped sell more guns...as did their Obama bashing...

which was total B.S. but played well with the racists.

[Ship of Fools]

3. that's kind of what i thought, too

[toddwv]

4. So 2008 as usual?

If the NRA "has your back" then you better let them walk first... just saying.

[Kingofalldems]

5. +1000 on your comment

NRA stats should be banned as a source here also.

[petronius]

102. What do you mean by "NRA stats"?

There may be the occasional sponsored survey, but I can't specifically recall seeing any firearms-related data presented here that originated in the NRA... :shrug:

[Aerows]

6. Did I miss some restrictive gun laws getting passed?

Because as far as I can tell, CCW laws have loosened for many states. I'm in Mississippi, and a restrictive gun bill has about as much chance of passing here as I do of flying to the moon by flapping my arms.

[TheWraith]

25. Obama has been better for gun owners than any president since Kennedy.

He signed equalization of carry between national forests and national parks.

He acknowledged and supported the Supreme Court decision affirming an individual right to bear arms.

He put down the talk from some inside his administration about reinstating the pointless and election-losing Assault Weapons Ban.

[PavePusher]

39. Actually, the Park carry reform was enacted under Bush, though it did not take effect until...

President Obama was in office. And some of his followers tried to block it in the courts...

It's still hard to reconcile his pre-election voting and campaigning record with "He's not going to push any additional gun control" in a lot of peoples' minds. Including me.

And after the utterly ridiculous Clinton-era "assault weapon ban", gun owners have a right and a duty to be wary of their appointed and elected officials.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

60. "followers"

:eyes:

Oh, and don't try to sugarcoat the language. You didn't mean "wary of their appointed and elected officials". You meant "wary of DEMOCRATS".

[yardwork]

104. Pre-election voting record when he was a representative from Chicago?

The people who live in Chicago, like those living in most if not all large cities in the U.S., are strongly in favor of gun control. Representative Obama was voting the way his constituents wanted him to vote.

But has he pushed for any gun control since he's been president? Not that I know of. In fact, he declared open season on wolves and polar bears.

[mr_liberal]

61. He did worse.

He put two anti-2nd Amendment justices on the supreme court.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

69. So, you gonna vote Republican? -nt

[mr_liberal]

72. No, of course not.

But the NRA and gun rights advocates do have reason to not like Obama. A HUGE reason, that nobody else here seems to see even though its so obvious.

[yardwork]

103. Oh please.

[Ter]

99. His SC Justice pics are likely the cause

n/t

[yardwork]

105. No, the NRA and Republicans planned to go after him no matter what.

Obama could shoot up the Mall with an AK47 and the NRA would still be telling its funders that "he's going to take your guns and Bibles awaaaaaaaayyyyyyy!!!!!"

[L0oniX]

7. I'm a gun owner with a cwp and LaPierre is full of shit.

[elleng]

10. Thanks. Please make some noise.

[enough]

8. Can someone explain why gun proponents fear Obama? As far as I can tell he has never

done anything to limit gun rights, and has never expressed any intention of doing so.

Is there something here that I am missing?

I know this is a charged issue, but I'm asking the question sincerely, not trying to be snide.

[Aerows]

14. I don't see it, either

Obama, as far as I know, has never even suggested it.

[X_Digger]

23. Quite a few anti-2nd amendment votes as a Chicago pol

And quite a few statements that don't sit well with pro-2nd amendment voters, even during the campaign.

[safeinOhio]

46. Compare with John Kasich's

voting record, who gets a "B" from the NRA just before the election.

According to Irvine, Kasich has a terrible voting record. "Kasich voted for handgun restrictions in 1986, voted for a ban on deer hunting in 1992, and voted for the Clinton/Schumer Gun Ban and earned an F rating from the NRA in 1994.

"He went on to vote against stopping the harassment of law-abiding gun owners by the BATFE in 1995, voted against big game hunting in 1997, voted to restrict gun shows in 1999, and voted twice to increase background checks aimed at closing down gun shows.

"Maybe the worst came in 1999," said Irvine shaking his head, "when Kasich voted for the D.C. Gun Ban. It's not just one vote, it's a pattern of hostility toward gun owners. You just can't run from a record like that."


Then to top it all off, he appoints a anti=CCW cop to be the director of the State Police in Ohio. That was after he got elected.

Two different standards for the NRA? One for Democrats, or one for half Irish people?

[X_Digger]

54. Still buttsore about Strickland?

You know, Strickland (A+ rating), the first person of the 2010 election campaign to get NRAs endorsement? (Typically reserved for a politician that the NRA holds up as an example to the rest of them.)

I don't see your conspiracy hiding out there, under the bed...

http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2010/06/nras_first_endo.php

The National Rifle Association has endorsed OH Gov. Ted Strickland (D), bestowing its first official blessing of the '10 midterms on a Dem.

<snip>

"As Governor, you continue to be a vocal advocate in the fight to promote Second Amendment freedoms for law-abiding citizens," wrote Chris Cox, the chairman of the NRA's political wing and its chief lobbyist. "Our members will interpret your 'A+' rating and endorsement as an indication that you are a pro-Second Amendment, pro-hunting candidate who supports sportsmen and gun-owners on every issue. This rating and endorsement information will be communicated to NRA members prior to the November General Election."

<snip>

Still, thanks to Dem efforts to broaden their tent, the group is likely to back a significant number of Dems -- especially younger members whose seats are top GOP targets. In '08, the NRA endorsed Reps. Leonard Boswell (D-IA), Baron Hill (D-IN), Ike Skelton (D-MO), Travis Childers (D-MS), Earl Pomeroy (D-ND), Charlie Wilson (D-OH), Zack Space (D-OH), Jason Altmire (D-PA), Chris Carney (D-PA), Paul Kanjorski (D-PA), Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (D-SD), Chet Edwards (D-TX) and Rick Boucher (D-VA) -- all of whom are top NRCC targets.

[primavera]

97. Nice spinning

I love the way you use "anti-2nd amendment" to mean any act of legislation that conflicts with a radical, minority interpretation of the 2nd amendment in favor of following the responsible example of the rest of the planet with respect to adopting responsible gun control. Karl Rove would be proud.

[freshwest]

108. Will they advocate people to not vote Democratic, though?

[24601]

117. You mean the "Law of the land" as determined by the USSC. I

don't give a rat's ass about your 2nd amendment position - but care a whole shitload whether you respect USSC decisions.

You either follow the law or you don't and if not, Roe ain't worth crap.

[primavera]

118. Aw, your faith in Tony "Mad Dog" Scalia is so touching

God knows, those five right-wing wackos on the Court are paragons of law and justice, one can see it instantly from their rulings on Gore v. Bush and Citizens United. I'm glad you like their sense of justice, because the "law of the land" they've created will have corporations buying and rigging our elections for the rest of our lives. Just make sure you never get arrested, though, because your right-wing heroes stripped away your Miranda rights and have made it the "law of the land" that you can be kidnapped, held indefinitely, tortured, and murdered by secret police. But hey, you respect SCOTUS decisions, so none of that should be a problem for you, right?

[TheWraith]

26. Gun proponents don't. Wayne LaPierre and some of his fellow fucknuts do.

And they exploit the issue of firearms to try and scare fellow gun owners into believing the same. Fact is, Obama has done more for gun owners than most other Presidents in recent history could have hoped to.

Yes, Obama had a bad record back when he was representing a district of Chicago. About as much of a surprise as if he'd voted against drug legalization while representing Kansas.

[Kolesar]

32. It is a PR gimmick to increase sales of weapons

Think of NRA as a mouthpiece for the gun makers.

[jpak]

35. ummm - he's black - that's why - they fear him

yup

[Blue_Tires]

42. It's just the same fearmongering the NRA does every election cycle

Of course, if you held a (figurative) gun to their collective heads and demanded to know exactly how many guns and bullets Obama has grabbed, they would have to say "zero"...But we all know how much facts and truth mean to that bunch...

The NRA wants to accomplish three things with this stunt:

1. Get the base in a tizzy and increase donations to the NRA and conservative candidates
2. Score some cheap publicity, since the news shows are giving out free airtime to ANYONE who curses Obama
3. Keeping the fear level high = More gun sales...

[yardwork]

106. That's it.

[mr_liberal]

63. Supreme court

The two justices he nominated dont believe the 2nd Amend is an individual right or that it should be applied to all the states.

[yardwork]

107. B.S.

[X_Digger]

115. See McDonald v Chicago, and the dissent.

Basically, they tried to re-argue Heller (no individual right) and definitely disagreed that it applied to the states.

[Vinee]

67. Two words: Lame Duck.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

101. Because the vast majority of "gun proponents"

are easily led simpletons?

[Doctor_J]

9. Didn't he just smoodge with them a month ago,

trying to get them over to his side? I wish he would kiss up to some leftist groups once in a while.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

11. Whatever. I'm still having a blast asking all the gun ppl I know who wasted money on ammo/guns...

...why that evil man hasn't taken away their guns yet. :rofl:

Oh, and if they still have their guns and can still buy their ammo in 2012 I'm going to win almost $500 in total bets! My only regret is that I couldn't get more of them to bet me. However, I get that they're tight on cash from buying up ammo and guns at insanely inflated prices. :D

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. I spent some money on guns and ammo ...

... it's the REST of my money that was wasted.

:rofl:

(not true, I did spend some on booze)

[Blue_Tires]

43. Yeah...funny how the media never re-visited that fake-hysteria episode...

Our local fishwrap and radio stations were screaming at the tops of their lungs "BUY YOUR GUNS AND AMMO NOW BEFORE OBAMA BANS THEM ALL!! OH SHIT! THERE IS ALREADY A SHORTAGE OF BULLETS! RUN TO THE GUN STORE NOW!!!!11!

[PavePusher]

45. They probably haven't revisited because...

they'd have to acknowledge his pre-presidential voting record and campaign utterences, which is what gave people the idea he was anti-gun in the first place.

[Blue_Tires]

50. So why is the NRA still ramping up the bullshit

and playing up the fears of the conspiracy freaks like clockwork?

[PavePusher]

52. "his pre-presidential voting record and campaign utterences"

If he wants to get re-elected, he won't push any gun control until after the election. This strategy should be apparent. But, if you want to ensure no additional gun control, get a more pro-2A candidate elected.

Note that I'm not endorsing any particular strategy here, just laying out the methods.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

62. "Note that I'm not endorsing any particular strategy here, just laying out the methods."

:eyes:

[HankyDubs]

12. but the NRA isn't a right wing organization!

Right? Good for all those DUers giving money to the NRA.

[whoneedstickets]

16. Spend a little time on the Gun forum and the NRA is a bastion of progressivism

Protecting sacred civil liberties. yeah right.

[X_Digger]

24. How about the money that the NRA gave to dems?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=379165&mesg_id=380165

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cmte=C00053553&cycle=2010

2010 Democratic Campaign Donations:


House:
Altmire, Jason (D-PA)...............$9,900
Arcuri, Michael (D-NY)..............$2,000
Baca, Joe (D-CA)....................$3,000
Barrow, John (D-GA).................$9,900
Berry, Marion (D-AR)................$1,500
Bishop, Sanford D Jr (D-GA).........$7,600
Boccieri, John A (D-OH).............$6,100
Boren, Dan (D-OK)...................$4,950
Boswell, Leonard L (D-IA)...........$7,950
Boucher, Rick (D-VA)................$5,950
Boyd, Allen (D-FL)..................$9,900
Bright, Bobby (D-AL)...............$10,050
Cardoza, Dennis (D-CA)..............$4,950
Carney, Chris (D-PA)................$8,600
Chandler, Ben (D-KY)................$7,950
Childers, Travis W (D-MS)...........$6,950
Costello, Jerry F (D-IL)............$2,000
Critz, Mark (D-PA)..................$2,500
Cuellar, Henry (D-TX)...............$2,150
Davis, Lincoln (D-TN)...............$9,900
Dingell, John D (D-MI)..............$7,950
Donnelly, Joe (D-IN)................$6,950
Edwards, Chet (D-TX)................$6,950
Gordon, Bart (D-TN).................$1,000
Green, Gene (D-TX)..................$2,000
Halvorson, Deborah (D-IL)...........$5,950
Heinrich, Martin (D-NM).............$2,000
Herseth Sandlin, Stephanie (D-SD)...$7,450
Higgins, Brian M (D-NY).............$1,000
Hill, Baron (D-IN)..................$6,950
Holden, Tim (D-PA)..................$9,900
Jones, Vernon (D-GA)................$1,500
Jordan, James D (R-OH)..............$3,000
Kagen, Steve (D-WI).................$8,950
Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA)............$7,450
Kind, Ron (D-WI)....................$2,000
Kissell, Larry (D-NC)...............$9,900
Kratovil, Frank M Jr (D-MD).........$9,900
Marshall, Jim (D-GA)................$6,950
Matheson, Jim (D-UT)................$5,000
McIntyre, Mike (D-NC)...............$6,950
Mollohan, Alan B (D-WV).............$4,950
Murphy, Scott (D-NY)................$2,500
Murtha, John P (D-PA)...............$2,500
Nye, Glenn (D-VA)...................$5,100
Obey, David R (D-WI)................$3,500
Ortiz, Solomon P (D-TX).............$2,000
Owens, Bill (D-NY)..................$2,000
Perriello, Tom (D-VA)...............$5,950
Peterson, Collin C (D-MN)...........$1,500
Pomeroy, Earl (D-ND)................$4,500
Rahall, Nick (D-WV).................$6,950
Ross, Mike (D-AR)...................$5,000
Ryan, Tim (D-OH)....................$3,000
Salazar, John (D-CO)................$3,000
Shuler, Heath (D-NC)................$8,450
Skelton, Ike (D-MO).................$6,950
Space, Zachary T (D-OH).............$9,900
Stupak, Bart (D-MI).................$1,000
Taylor, Gene (D-MS).................$4,500
Walz, Timothy J (D-MN)..............$3,000
Wilson, Charlie (D-OH)..............$6,100
Total: $335,700

Senate:
Dorgan, Byron L (D-ND)..............$2,500
Ellsworth, Brad (D-IN)..............$9,900
Manchin, Joe (D-WV).................$4,950
Reid, Harry (D-NV)..................$4,950
Total: $22,300

Additional Independent Expenditures to Democratic candidates:

Altmire, Jason..............$10,346
Boren, Dan...................$8,175
Boyd, Allen.................$14,377
Cardoza, Dennis..............$4,322
Childers, Travis W...........$4,518
Davis, Lincoln...............$6,539
Dingell, John D..............$3,626
Halvorson, Deborah...........$4,216
Herseth Sandlin, Stephanie...$8,711
Hill, Baron....................$850
Holden, Tim..................$8,594
Kilroy, Mary Jo................$595
Lentz, Bryan...................$595
Matheson, Jim................$8,704
Mollohan, Alan B.............$6,675
Murray, Patty................$6,706
Rahall, Nick.................$2,591
Ross, Mike...................$6,627
Shuler, Heath...............$23,161
Skelton, Ike.................$8,796
Space, Zachary T.............$4,610
Strickland, Ted.............$25,143
Taylor, Gene.................$3,201
Total: $171,618

Grand Total: $529,618



2010 Democratic Endorsements:
Alaska
Scott Kawasaki
Jim Folsom, Jr.

Alabama
Jan Cook
Bobby Bright
Tammy L. Irons
Tom Butler
Zeb Little
Roger Bedford, Jr.
Lowell Barron
Larry Means
Phil Poole
Marc Keahey
T.D. "Ted" Little
Billy Beasley
John "Jody" Letson
Ken Guin
William E. Thigpen, Sr.
Johnny Mack Morrow
Randy Hinshaw
Butch Taylor
John Robinson
Jeff McLaughlin
Craig Ford
John G. "Jack" Page III
Steve Hurst
Richard Laird
Richard Lindsey
James M. "Jimmy" Martin
Demetrius C. Newton
Oliver Robinson
Alan Harper
Elaine Beech
Thomas E. Jackson
Betty Carol Graham
Alan C. Boothe
Terry Spicer

Arizona:
Rebecca Rios
Barbara McGuire

Arkansas:
Mike Beebe
Shane Broadway
Dustin McDaniel
Mike Ross
John Paul Wells
Robert Thompson
Paul Bookout
Bobby J. Pierce
Johnnie J. Roebuck
Randy Stewart
Monty Betts
James McLean

California:
Dennis Cardoza
Joe Baca
Lou Correa
Alyson Huber
Cathleen Galgiani

Colorado:
John Salazar
Betsy Markey
Lois Tochtrop

Connecticut:
Paul R. Doyle
Andrew Maynard
Joe Aresimowicz
Edward Moukawsher
Tom Reynolds
Steven Mikutel
Linda Orange
Claire Janowski
Roberta Willis
Jeffrey Berger
David Aldarono
John Mazurek
Bruce Zalaski
Emil Altobello
Terry Backer
Kevin Ryan

Delaware:
David B. Mcbride
Bruce C. Ennis
Nancy W. Cook
George H. Bunting, Jr.
Robert F. Gilligan
William J Carson, Jr.
Edward Bradford Bennett
Robert E Walls
John C. Atkins

Florida:
Allen Boyd
Bill Montford
Leonard Bembry
Debbie Boyd
Dean Cannon
Darren Soto
Ron Saunders

Georgia:
Sanford Bishop
Jim Marshall
John Barrow
Lester G. Jackson
Curt Thompson
Doug Stoner
Tim Golden
reddie Powell Sims
George Hooks
Hardie Davis
Steve Henson
Barbara Massey Reece
Rick Crawford
Alan Powell
Glenn Baker
Pedro Pete Marin
Hugh Floyd
Helen G. Sistie Hudson
Mike Cheokas
James A. Bubber Epps
Mack Jackson
Bob Hanner
Gerald E. Greene
Bob Bryant
Ellis Black
Amy Carter

Hawaii:
Shan S. Tsutsui
Jerry Leslie Chang

Idaho:
Mary Shepherd

Illinois:
Debbie Halvorson
Jerry Costello
Michael Bond
Toi W. Hutchinson
Arthur Wilhelmi
Deanna Demuzio
Michael W. Frerichs
Kevin A. McCarthy
Jack D. Franks
Patrick Verschoore
Careen M. Gordon
Frank J. Mautino
Lisa M. Dugan
Michael K. Smith
Bob Flider
Daniel V. Beiser
Jay C. Hoffman
Thomas Holbrook
Dan Reitz
John Bradley
Brandon W. Phelps

Indiana:
Brad Ellsworth
Joe Donnelly
Trent Van Haaften
Baron Hill
Timothy Dale Skinner
James Lewis
Richard D. Young, Jr.
Lindel O. Hume
Craig R. Fry
Scott D. Pelath
Charles Chuck Moseley
Dan Stevenson
Chester F. Dobis
Ron Herrell
oe Pearson
Dennis Tyler
Terri Jo Austin
Scott Reske
F. Dale Grubb
Clyde Kersey
Nancy A. Michael
Peggy Welch
Sandra Blanton
Kreg Battles
Terry Goodin
Robert J. Bischoff
David Cheatham
Paul J. Robertson
Steven R. Stemler
Russ Stilwell
Bob Deig
Gail Riecken
John F. Barnes

Iowa:
CHET CULVER
Leonard Boswell
Amanda Ragan
Bill Dotzler
Wally E. Horn
Dennis H. Black
Daryl Beall
Matt McCoy
Becky Schmitz
Keith A. Kreiman
McKinley D. Bailey
Sharon Steckman
Brian J. Quirk
John W. Beard
Andrew Wenthe
Bob Kressig
Doris J. Kelley
Roger Thomas
Ray Zirkelbach
Kirsten Running-Marquardt
Tyler Olson
Geri D. Huser
Mark Smith
Kevin McCarthy
Eric J. Palmer
Nathan K. Reichert
Phyllis Thede
Jim Lykam
Larry K. Marek
Curt Hanson
Jerry A. Kearns
Kurt Swaim
Michael J. Reasoner
Paul Shomshor

Kansas:
Steve Six
Dennis McKinney
Doug Gatewood
Shirley Palmer
Jerry Williams
Tom Burroughs
Melanie Meier
Melany Barnes
Janice Pauls

Kentucky:
Ben Chandler
J. Dorsey Ridley
Jerry P. Rhoads
David E. Boswell
Robin L. Webb
R.J. Palmer II
Mike Reynolds
Fred Nesler
Mike Cherry
Melvin B. Henley
Will R. Coursey
John A. Arnold, Jr.
John C. Tilley
Jim Gooch, Jr.
Jim Glenn
Tommy Thompson
Brent Yonts
Martha Jane King
Dottie J. Sims
Wilson Stone
Johnny W. Bell
Terry Mills
Jimmie Lee
Jeff Greer
Charles W. Miller
Steven Riggs
Tim Firkins
Robert R. Damron
Dennis Horlander
Larry Clark
Rick W. Rand
Linda Howlett Belcher
Kent Stevens
Royce W. Adams
Charlie Hoffman
Arnold R. Simpson
Dennis Keene
Mitchel B. Denham, Jr.
John Will Stacy
Sannie Overly
Don Pasley
Richard D. Henderson
Ruth Ann Palumbo
Thomas M. McKee
Susan Westrom
Fitz Steele
Rick Nelson
Ted "Teddy" Edmonds
W. Keith Hall
Leslie A. Combs
Gregory D. Stumbo
Hubert Collins
Tanya Pullin
Rocky Adkins
Kevin P. Sinnette

Maine:
Mike Michaud
Bill Diamond
Troy Jackson
John Martin
Herbert Clark
Benjamin Pratt
Stephen Hanley
Michael Shaw
John Tuttle, Jr.

Maryland:
Frank Kratovil
Norman R. Stone Jr.
Katherine Klausmeier
Roy Dyson
John C. Astle
James Ed DeGrange
Jim Brochin
Kevin Kelly
John P. Donoghue
Mike Weir Jr.
Eric Bromwell
Steven J. DeBoy Sr.
ames E. Malone Jr.
Rudolph C. Cane
Norman H. Conway

Massachussetts:
James Timilty
Michael Rodrigues
Steven Baddour
ames Eldridge
Marc Pacheco
Jennifer Flanagan
Richard Moore
Stephen Brewer
Demetrius Atsalis
William Pignatelli
David Sullivan
William Straus
Joyce Spiliotis
Barbara L'Italien
Stephen Kulik
Joseph Wagner
Angelo Puppolo, Jr.
John Scibak
James Arciero
James Miceli
Colleen Garry
William Galvin
James Vallee
Christine Canavan
Stephen DiNatale
Anne Gobi
Geraldo Alicea
Paul Kujawski
Harold Naughton, Jr.
John Binienda, Sr.
Jennifer Callahan

Michigan:
Gary McDowell
John Dingell
John J. Gleason
Richard LeBlanc
Jennifer Haase
Kate Ebli
Alan Lewandowski
Terry L. Brown

Minnesota:
LORI SWANSON
Tim Walz
Collin Peterson
Jim Oberstar
Leroy Stumpf
Rod Skoe
Tom Saxhaug
David Tomassoni
Thomas Bakk
Keith Langseth
Dan Sparks
Linda Scheid
Charles Wiger
Kathy Saltzman
David M. Olin
Bernie L. Lieder
Brita Sailer
Tom Anzelc
Loren A. Solberg
John Persell
Tom Rukavina
Anthony Sertich
David Dill
Mary Murphy
Tim Faust
Paul Marquart
John Ward
Al Doty
Al Juhnke
Larry Hosch
Andrew Falk
Lyle Koenen
Terry Morrow
Kory Kath
Robin Brown
Jeanne Poppe
Andy Welti
Joe Atkins
Will Morgan
Denise R. Dittrich
Jerry Newton
Julie Bunn
Marsha Swails

Mississippi:
Travis Childers
Gene Taylor

Missouri:
Ike Skelton
Frank Barnitz
Wes Shoemyer
Ryan McKenna
Tom Shively
Paul Quinn
Ed Schieffer
Kenny Biermann
Joe Aull
Jason Grill
Sam Komo
Timothy Meadows
Ron Casey
Joseph Fallert
Michael Frame
Linda Fischer
Luke Scavuzzo
Steve Hodges
Terry Swinger
Tom Todd

Montana:
Mitch Tropila
Robert Mehlhoff
Kathy Swanson

Nevada:
Ross Miller
Moises Denis
Mark Manendo
Marilyn Kirkpatrick
Olivia Diaz
James Ohrenschall
Elliot Anderson
John Oceguera
Kelvin Atkinson
Richard Carrillo
David Bobzien
Debbie Smith
Marcus Conklin
Irene Bustamante
John Cahill

New Mexico:
Gary King
Martin Heinrich
Harry Teague
Ben R. Lujan
Sandra Jeff
Eliseo Lee Alcon
Andrew Barreras
Patricia Lundstrom
Henry "Kiki" Saavedra
Bill O'Neill
Dona Irwin
Andy Nunez
Jeff Steinborn
Rodolfo Rudy Martinez
Nick Salazar
Debbie Rodella
Roberto "Bobby" Gonzales
Brian Egolf
Joseph Cervantes
Nate Cote
John Heaton
Thomas Garcia

New York:
Scott Murphy
Bill Owens
Michael Arcuri
Darrel J. Aubertine
David J. Valesky
Aileen M. Gunther
Bill Magee
Robin Schimminger
Mark J. F. Schroeder

North Carolina:
Mike McIntyre
Larry Kissell
Heath Shuler
Doug Berger
A. B. Swindell
Daniel Clodfelter
Steve Goss
John J. Snow, Jr.
Timothy L. Spear
Arthur Williams
William L. Wainwright
Dewey L. Hill
William Brisson
Joe Tolson
Michael H. Wray
Jim Crawford
Chris Heagarty
Jimmy L. Love, Sr.
Nelson Cole
Pryor Gibson
Lorene T. Coates
L. Hugh Holliman

North Dakota:
Earl Pomeroy

Ohio:
Ted Strickland
Richard Cordray
Linda Bolon
Kenny Yuko
Matt Patten
Stephen Dyer
Matt Szollosi
Matt Lundy
Ron Gerberry
Mark Okey
Lorraine Fende
Jay Goyal
Dan Dodd
Debbie Phillips
Lou Gentile

Oklahoma:
Bret Burns
Dan Boren
Sean Burrage
Neil Brannon
Roger Ballenger
John Sparks
Randy Bass
Dennis R. Bailey
Glen Bud Smithson
Mike Brown
Wade Rousselot
Ed Cannaday
Brian Renegar
R. C. Pruett
Wes Hilliard
Steve Kouplen
Danny Morgan
Cory T. Williams
Ken Luttrell
Samson R. Buck
Joe Dorman
Seneca D. Scott
Eric Proctor
Scott Inman

Oregon:
Kurt Schrader
Arnie Roblan
Brian Clem
Jeff Barker
Brad Witt
Mike Schaufler

Pennsylvania:
John Yudichak
Lisa Boscola
Richard Kasunic
Jim Ferlo
Timothy Solobay
Flo Fabrizio
John Hornaman
Mark Longietti
Chris Sainato
Jaret Gibbons
Robert Matzie
Dom Costa
Joseph Markosek
Anthony Deluca
Marc Gergely
Harry Readshaw
Bill Kortz
Nick Kotik
Jesse White
Peter Daley
Bill Deweese
Deberah Kula
John Pallone
oseph Petrarca
James Casorio
Ted Harhai
Bryan Barbin
Frank Burns
Gary Haluska
Camille George
Mike Hanna
Scott Conklin
Edward Staback
Todd Eachus
Mike Carroll
Neal Goodman
Tim Seip
John Siptroth

Rhode Island:
Dominick Ruggerio
Frank Ciccone III
James Doyle II
Michael Pinga
Walter Felag, Jr.
M Teresa Paiva-Weed
Frank Devall, Jr.
Roger Picard
John Tassoni, Jr.
Marc Cote
Beatrice Lanzi
Hanna Gallo
Michael McCaffrey
William Walaska
Erin Lynch
V Susan Sosnowski

South Carolina:
Paul L. Agnew
Harold Mitchell, Jr.
Boyd Brown
Mike Anthony
Jimmy Neal
Herb Kirsh
David Weeks
Laurie Slade Funderburk
Ted Martin Vick
Jackie E. Hayes
Denny Woodall Neilson
Jim Battle
Lester Branham
Cathy Harvin
James Smith
J. Todd Rutherford
Lonnie Hosey
Harry L. Ott, Jr.
Patsy G. Knight
Vida Miller
J. Seth Whipper
Anne Peterson Hutto
Bill Bowers
Kenneth F. Hodges

South Dakota:
Stephanie H. Sandlin
Jason Frerichs
David Sigdestad
Spencer Hawley
Mitch Fargen
Peggy Gibson
John C. Willman

Tennessee:
Lincoln Davis
Roy Herron
Doug Jackson
Lowe Finney
Dennis Ferguson
Jim Hackworth
Leslie Winningham
George W. Fraley
ohn Mark Windle
Henry D. Fincher
Mike McDonald
Stratton Bone
Eddie Bass
David A. Shepard
Judy Barker

Texas:
Silvestre Reyes
Chet Edwards
Solomon Ortiz
Henry Cuellar
Gene Green
John Whitmire
Stephen Frost
Mark Homer
Jim McReynolds
Joe Deshotel
Craig Eiland
Ryan Guillen
Solomon Ortiz, Jr.
Abel Herrero
Yvonne Gonzalez Toureilles
Eddie Lucio, III
Armando Martinez
Aaron Pena, Jr.
Patrick Rose
Chente Quintanilla
Tracy King
Joe Heflin
Robert Miklos
Kirk England
Allen Vaught
David Leibowitz

Utah:
Jim Matheson
Neal Hendrickson
Christine Watkins

Vermont:
Jeb Spaulding
Peter Welch
Claire Ayer
Dick Sears
Matthew A. Choate
Jane Kitchel
Bill Carris
Jeanette White
Alice W. Nitka
Willem Jewett
Alice Miller
Kitty Beattie Toll
Jim Condon
Kathleen C. Keenan
Floyd Nease
Peter Peltz
Shap Smith
Larry Townsend
John S. Rodgers
Maxine Grad
Tony Klein
Michael J. Obuchowski
Carolyn W. Partridge
John Moran
Alice M. Emmons

Washington:
Steve Conway
Tim Sheldon
Steve Hobbs
Dean Takko
Brian E. Blake
Kevin Van De Wege
Dawn Morrell
Troy Kelley
Christopher Hurst
Kathy Haigh
Fred Finn
Kelli Linville
Pat Sullivan

West Virginia:
Joe Manchin
Nick Rahall
Orphy Klempa
Larry Edgell
Evan Jenkins
H. Truman Chafin
Ron Stollings
Erik Wells
Mike Green
Ronald "Ron" Miller
Joseph "Joe" Minard
Walt Helmick
John Unger
Randy Shwartzmiller
Tim Ennis
Roy Givens
Michael Ferro
Scott Varner
Dave Pethtel
Dan Poling
Dale Martin
Brady Paxton
Kevin Craig
Jim Morgan
Doug Reynolds
Don Perdue
Richard Thompson
Larry Barker
Greg Butcher
Ralph Rodighiero
Josh Stowers
K. Steven Kominar
Harry Keith White
Daniel Hall
Linda Goode Phillips
Clif Moore
Gerald Crosier
Mel Kessler
Virginia Mahan
Rick Moye
William "Bill" Wooton
Thomas Campbell
David Perry
John Pino
Margaret Staggers
Mark Hunt
Doug Skaff Jr.
Sharon Spencer
David Walker
Brent Boggs
Sam Argento
Joe Talbott
Bill Hartman
Peggy Donaldson Smith
Mary Poling
Samuel Cann
Ron Fragale
Richard Iaquinta
Tim Miley
Mike Manypenny
Mike Caputo
Linda Longstreth
Tim Manchin
Charlene Marshall
Stan Shaver
Harold Michael
Tiffany Lawrence

Wyoming:
Kathlyn Sessions
Saundra Meyer
Stan Blake
Michael Gilmore

Wisconsin:
Ron Kind
Steve Kagen
Russ Decker
Kathleen Vinehout
Amy Sue Vruwink
Marlin Schneider
Chris Danou

[HankyDubs]

27. How about the money that the Koch brothers gave to the DLC?

I guess the Koch brothers aren't right wing...right?

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

Congratulations on your donation to a "single issue organization" that is dedicating those funds (your money) to defeating a president who has not signed a single bill on gun control.

And LaPierre is opposing this democrat, who has done nothing on their "single issue" even though they have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER who the republican nominee will be.

[X_Digger]

29. If you truly think the DLC is left wing.. there's no hope for you. n/t

[HankyDubs]

30. exactly my point

though if I were to say anything about the persons on your list, you would alert my post to the moderators.

I'll say again...they oppose a president who has done nothing to restrict gun rights, despite the fact that they don't eve know who the republican opponent will be.

The NRA is a right wing organization that donates to right wing candidates.

[X_Digger]

33. Like that evil Harry Reid? *snort*

In a couple of states, the majority of endorsed candidates and a majority of the money went to dems (WV for example.)

If you want to be the purity police for the party, be sure to let us know when you're appointed.

[HankyDubs]

38. lmao

Harry Reid is your chosen fig-leaf? Really?

Or Joe Manchin, who voted against the Defense Authorization act that repealed DADT?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1210/46244.html

Who has indicated he will side with republicans against raising the debt ceiling?

Seems like you're bending over backwards to make my point for me!

[PavePusher]

40. You seem to be insisting that the two political parties must be diametrically opposed on everything.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it ain't a binary solution set out in the real world.

[HankyDubs]

41. Nope

I'm insisting that the NRA is a right wing organization that supports right wing candidates.

And as far as Harry Reid:

http://www.lvrj.com/news/nra-staying-out-of-nevada-senate-race-101686713.html

The National Rifle Association said Friday that it is staying out of the heated U.S. Senate race in Nevada, declining to endorse Sen. Harry Reid or his Republican challenger Sharron Angle.

The powerful gun lobby said it would not back Reid because of his votes in favor of Supreme Court nominees Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor over the past two years -- justices the NRA believes will be hostile to gun owners in cases involving the Second Amendment.

[X_Digger]

44. And that's why they gave him $4,950? And $0 to Angle?

The NRA supports candidate who support the second amendment.

They give money and endorse candidates no matter their color on the spectrum, from blue to red, from purple to green, and everything in between.

That evil Howard Dean, "right wing", eh?

John Kerry criticized Dean's 1992 statement to the National Rifle Association that he opposed any restriction on private ownership of assault weapons. "Howard Dean's opposition to sensible gun safety measures is indefensible," Kerry said. "It explains why he has been endorsed by the NRA eight times. I believe we must put the safety of our children and families ahead of special interests like the NRA."

LOL!!

[HankyDubs]

55. Howard Dean is a much better fig leaf

So now its what...90% of donations to right wingers?

Dean received an "A" grade from the NRA. However, N.R.A.. executive director Wayne LaPierre says Dean today is "totally trying to have it both ways." Yes, Vermont has some of the least restrictive gun laws in the nation. But Dean opposes a federal bill that would grant gunmakers immunity from lawsuits and supports background checks for buyers at gun shows—two positions that put him at odds with the N.R.A.. He agrees with most positions of Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.

http://www.selectsmart.com/president/Dean.html

Dean believes, as I do, that communities should be able to make their own choices on gun control, based on their own situations. Vermont is not Chicago or DC, so his position makes sense--which is why this position is fervently opposed by the NRA. The NRA prefers to impose its extremist positions on communities reeling from gun violence every single day.

If Dean was running for president in 2012, you can bet every single goddamned penny that the NRA would oppose him against ANY republican candidate, even (as in Obama's case) a completely hypothetical republican challenger.

In 2010, Harry Reid raised almost 17 million in his re-election campaign. 5 grand is a drop in the bucket. The refusal to support was an awful lot more important.

The money you give to the NRA in dues goes to speaking fees for $arah Palin, Glenn Beck and Ted Nugent and their "soshulizm" rants. That's the truth. Even gungeon members realize this, and certainly a significant majority of Duers do--which is proven every single time one of these issues gets a hearing outside of the gungeon.

[X_Digger]

57. Nice distraction..

Would a "right wing" organization spend $530,000 on the competition?

You feel free to go through that list above and tell us which of those endorsed / donated to candidates are 'real democrats', then come back to us.

I mean, if you're going to be the purity patrol, you need to start doing your job.

[HankyDubs]

66. Nice evasion

I address your points, you don't address mine.

Why waste my time doing all that research only to have my post deleted?

Ill never convince the single-issue diehards like yourself no matter what I do, and the rest of DU already sees though your transparent evasions.

[X_Digger]

68. So sorry I ddin't fall for your 'no, no look over here, instead' schtick

Would a 'right wing' organization send $530k to the competition? Would a 'right wing' org endorse Howard Dean & Harry Reid? (and the other 800 or so dems in the above list?)

[HankyDubs]

71. I already responded to that

You can scroll up and see how I demolished your feeble point. I can go no further than I already have, and you know that's the case because we've had this discussion before and my posts on that subject get deleted when I go any further than I already have. It's probably you who alerted them.

Now I made several points that you consistently evade and refuse to acknowledge. I know you can't respond to them; they are essentially irrefutable. The rest of DU understands that, including many gungeon people.

[X_Digger]

74. Right.. I ignore your distractions..

You did not actually respond, you dodged.

Your, "Yes, but.." responses are there to see.

Why would a 'right wing' group endorse and give money to 800 members of the opposition? In many of the races with endorsements above, there was an actual right wing candidate in the running. Why didn't the NRA endorse them, if they're a 'right wing' organization?

[HankyDubs]

75. this is boring

You dissemble and misrepresent, and then you refuse to address substantive issues. It's not a distraction to point out that the NRA endorses a hypothetical republican over a president who has done nothing to restrict gun ownership. It's not a distraction to point out that your NRA dues pay $arah Palin's speaking fees. It's not a distraction to point out that the Kochtopus helped create the DLC. These are substantive issues that you simply refuse to address because you can't. There's absolutely nothing for you to say.

You've already lost this argument, just look at this thread. Heck, just go to the gungeon and see gun rights proponents who can see you're full of it.

[X_Digger]

77. My post is the same substance as my first response in this subthread - #24

You can wander all over the place, trying to drop red herrings.. I don't care.

If you wish to make those points in a separate thread, feel free to do so. I'm staying with this subject, thanks.

You claim the NRA is a 'right wing organization' yet can't explain why they gave money to and endorsed over 800 Democratic candidates in the 2010 election, often over actual right wing candidates.

[HankyDubs]

84. asked and answered

several times. No one is buying what you have to sell.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

82. the NRA is a right wing group, of this there is no doubt

Consider:

I like photography. I shoot Canon. I can sing the praises of Canon all day long in the photography forum, no problem. But if I joined a group called TeaBaggingObamaHating Canon Photographers, a group that takes pictures and works for the defeat of Obama, I'm not sure if they'd let me advocate for that group in the photography forum. Would they?

[X_Digger]

83. I'll ask you the same question Hanky dodged..

Would a 'right wing' org spend $530k on, and endorse 800 or so dems in the above list, when in most cases there were actual right wing candidates in the races?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

85. I'll attempt to answer

I saw the long list of Democrats. I don't doubt that the NRA has given to these candidates. But the simple (if unsatisfying) response is, it's a matter of degrees. All sorts of corporations give to both Democrats and Republicans, but that doesn't prevent us from correctly surmising that the GOP is for big business, while the Democrats are for the little guy (this is, unfortunately, less true than it used to be, but that's for another thread).

By the same token, there are Democrats who don't believe in climate change, but climate change denial is the domain of right-wingers.

There are exceptions to the rule, but they're just that--exceptions.

[X_Digger]

88. Well, you didn't actually connect the dots..

I think it would be fair to say that the NRA donates more to repuglicans than democrats, that's easily proven. If you graph out the donations between candidates of the parties over time, we went from receiving 40% of the NRAs money to like 10% from 1992-1994. (Thank the 1994 "assault weapons" fraud for that one.) It's been slowly reversing ever since. We're back up to like 70/30 or 65/35 now.

Would the RNC ever endorse a democrat? Would the RCC? Of course not. They actually are a right wing organization.

The NRA-ILA is a single-issue advocacy group. They piss off rethugs quite frequently with their endorsements.

[quakerboy]

116. In a heartbeat

the relatively minor amount they spend to buy influence outside their normal RW standard bearers serves dual purpose as it covers them when people begin to point out the obvious partisanship

[safeinOhio]

51. Didn't they drop

Harry's endorsement in the 2008 election and remained neutral? Sharron Angle?

[Upton]

87. Hey you're actually right about something..

yeah, the NRA remained officially neutral in the Reid/Angle race

[safeinOhio]

49. Same percentage that the Chamber of Commerce

gives. Grand Total: $529,618 out of 2.8 million on just the 2008 election.

[X_Digger]

53. Would a 'right wing' organization spend $530k on the competition? n/t

[safeinOhio]

56. Big money spends on

whom ever will make them more money, NRA, Chamber of Commerce. Both have declared war on the half Irish President.

[X_Digger]

58. Yes, yes, yes.. and Hitler was a vegetarian..

Have any other association fallacies to trot out?

[safeinOhio]

59. You be the king

of association fallacies.
"Would a 'right wing' organization spend $530k on the competition?"


Thanks for playing.

[X_Digger]

65. You're the one associating the NRA with the CC..

Perhaps you need a refresher..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.

[safeinOhio]

90. Lets see, the NRA donates about the same

percentage to Democrats of it's political money as the NRA does. Not a fallacy, a fact. Not much different than your irrelevant association with Hitler or the association you make about the small amount the NRA makes to conservative Democrats. Both HAVE declared war on Obama this week. Not that your mentioning Hitler is an appeal to emotion?

You have entered the realm of "weasel out of it argument fallacy".

Sorry, not even a good try.

[X_Digger]

94. Associate A with B based on one characteristic.. therefore, they're the same in other ways! *snort*

Pathetic. When you have an argument that isn't riddled with holes, do come back, k?

[onehandle]

91. Pennies compared to their GOP support. And the Blue Dogs are dead. Nice try. nt

[X_Digger]

95. Would a 'right wing' organization spend $530k on the competition? n/t

[safeinOhio]

47. They did have one Democrat on the Board of Directors...

Zell Miller.:rofl: They made up for that with Ted Nugent and Grover Norquist. Strictly bipartisan. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[DisgustipatedinCA]

80. the NRA IS a right-wing organization

I realize you were being facetious, but they're absolutely a right wing organization. Those who support both Democratic Underground and the National Rifle Association need to pick a side, in my view. I don't care what anyone thinks of guns, pro or con, but support of the NRA is tantamount to support of the Republican Party and the Tea Party. All 3 groups are maggots, and their filth shouldn't be permitted here.

[BrightKnight]

13. I hope that the NRA has moved beyond single party politics.

There is a lot of evidence that they are actually capable of focusing on Gun rights. I am sure that there are a lot of partisan dumb-asses in the organization.

I doubt that all of the people that hoarded guns and ammunition after the election are going to buy that BS again.

To the best of my knowledge Obama has NO interest picking a fight with the NRA. Federal gun rights have generally improved under this administration.

[randr]

15. The NRA's agenda has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment

They know full well that no presidential candidate, or anyone else at the national level for that matter, is going to change a damn thing. The NRA is interested only in gun sales and they side with republicans because of their ties to the National Chamber of Commerce not matter who the candidate is.

[whoneedstickets]

17. cha-ching! +1

[mr_liberal]

64. Presidents don't nominate Supreme Court justices? nm

[wordpix]

112. +1 it's all about the money

[jdadd]

18. I always liked the George Carlin Bit.....

"And speaking of mindless Hollywood cocksuckers, before Charlton Heston became President of these dickless lunatics in the NRA, they had a different guy. He's still one of their major spokesman, and his name is Wayne LaPierre. Doesn't that sound a bit fruitty to you? "Hi, I'm Wayne, I'm a gun person. Bang bang!" You know what this guy's name ought to be? Biff Webster. Spud Crowley, a man's name! Chuck Steak!"

[former9thward]

22. Always with the gay slurs.

Never ends. No matter what the topic. I wonder what your name is? Maybe we should dissect it to see how 'manly' it is.

[Renew Deal]

19. I'm broke. The repubs want me off of medicare, but the republicans will let me keep more guns around

So clearly I will vote for the republican in Ohio.

[freshwest]

109. Maybe they expect you to 'eat lead.' Okay, that's a sorry joke, but they might.

[jayfish]

20. Am I missing something?

Is there some Democratic initiative to ban and confiscate firearms that I don't know about? Why are guns an issue?

[TheWraith]

28. Some of the usual suspects have been making the usual noises.

Carolyn McCarthy trying to ban normal size magazines or modern rifles, Mike Bloomberg trying to ban private sales, the Brady Campaign trying to ban defensive handgun use.

You know what all those have in common, thought? They're all either Republicans or ex-Republicans.

[X_Digger]

31. Lautenberg's perennial noise.. Schumer occasionally..

There are a few vocal, if crank-ish, anti-gun pols that make the news circuits every so often, pushing their 90's era rhetoric.

[wordpix]

113. because the repugs are making it an issue where guns are big

and BTW, these states are also the same states that have the worst record on gun crimes

[tomm2thumbs]

21. just as successfully as they did in 2008... oh wait - guess they are full of big talk and bluster

thanks for showing us how it works 2 years ago with gun-toting Palin and McCain's candidacy... so much for your pull with voters

[jpak]

34. Fuck the GOP/NRA

yup

[Dogtown]

37. More racism

hiding behind an unrelated "issue".

[slackmaster]

48. It's about half bluster and half wishful thinking

The only ways the President could lose in 2012 would be for him to do something insanely stupid, or for Jesus to come back as a Republican and run against him.

[DCBob]

70. Thank God I dont live in a "Big Gun" state.

Sick.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

73. Amen to that. You know what state has the least gun crime per capita?

Massachusetts.

Choke on that, rightos.

[DCBob]

76. I really do not understand the obsession many Rethugs have with this gun thing..

I grew up with guns and did alot hunting but I never saw guns as something indispensable to my life. They have a weird mind set.

[slackmaster]

86. I'd like to see a source for that, CPD. I've found a few that put it at about #31.

With Vermont or New Hampshire generally ending up at the lowest rate. DC or Louisiana generally come up at or near the top, depending on exactly what is being measured. I don't see MA as the lowest anything anywhere.

For example:

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_gun-crime-gun-violence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

92. Here. Actually, MA is 2nd lowest; Hawaii is lowest.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

It's from 2002, but there's no way in hell it could have dropped to the bottom half since then.

All of sweet sweet blue New England, plus NY and NJ, is there in the nice end of the spectrum.

[X_Digger]

96. Check Slackmaster's second link, it's 2009 data..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

There were 0 firearm homicides in VT that year, 8 in HI (0.70/100k), 93 in MA (1.56/100k)

Here's the rate of firearm homicides per 100,000 for the lowest 10..


Vermont...........0.00
Idaho.............0.33
New Hampshire.....0.34
Iowa..............0.40
North Dakota......0.49
South Dakota......0.57
Hawaii............0.70
Minnesota.........0.75
Maine.............0.83
Utah..............0.91
....
Massachusetts.....1.56 (14th)

Rhode Island is 16th
New Jersey is 22nd
Delaware is 30th
Pennsylvania is 36th
New York is 39th
Maryland is 48th

Seems there are quite a few states doing better than Massachusetts, and quite a few states in the northeast that are quite bad.

[slackmaster]

98. That's an evasion. Cited source for "firearm death rate" includes suicides.

That's not the same thing as "gun crime per capita."

[freshwest]

78. None of the lies about Obama 'coming to take your guns' came true, so WTH is this? Just NRA/GOP/BS!

[jmowreader]

79. Wayne LaPierre's theory has two big holes in it

The "big gun states" are also low-electoral-vote states.

The first hole is, all the "big gun states" went for John McCain in 2008. You will notice that John McCain is still called Senator rather than President.

The second hole is, the "big gun states" combined have fewer electoral votes than California and New York. IIRC the last time California and New York went red was in 1988, when Ronald Reagan won 49 states.

The 2012 election is going to come down to the same two or three swing states it came down to in 2000 and 2004.

[marmar]

81. Sweet Jesus I hate the NRA.

nt

[BlueIris]

89. Sadly, I think most states will toss this president.

But I can't wait to see the gun nuts try to take credit for it.

[unkachuck]

93. maybe Obama....

....fat-tony and cheney could go out on photo-op hunting trip (with an extra detail of Secret Service in-tow lest cheney be careless)....

....being a Republican sympathizer, Obama should be able to work something out with the NRA....

[AndyTiedye]

100. NRA = GOP

[sendero]

110. Obama..

... has done NOTHING to restrict gun rights. All of the dire predictions that gussied gun sales were bullshit just like I expected.

I am for gun rights, but the NRA is run by idiots engaging in total fearmongering which apparently works well with their stupider members of which there must be quite a few.

[wordpix]

111. the repug looks good on the issue & NRA doesn't know who that is--but they'll buy the whore, whoever

it may be. How disgustingly transparent.

[LynneSin]

114. Alot of these NRA members are also Union members

and they may start rethinking their priorities knowing how these republicans have screwed them over since 2010