(Montana Gov.) Schweitzer: With bin Laden dead, U.S. should leave Afghanistan

[Newsjock]

Source: Missoulian

The United States must take one more step to make things right following the killing of Osama bin Laden, Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer said Monday.

Bin Laden's death "ought to put us in helicopters leaving Afghanistan," he said. "...There's no reason to stay. He's now dead. He's gone."

Schweitzer spoke with members of the Missoulian's editorial board Monday, a meeting originally scheduled to discuss the just-ended 2011 legislative session, which until Sunday night was the biggest news in Montana.

... "I don't believe we ought to be dancing in the streets and waving American flags," he said. "... This is not like winning a hockey game," he said. "We killed an evil individual."

Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_a463f892-7506-11e0-adf3-001cc4c03286.html

[Demeter]

1. Yessiree!

[freshwest]

8. +1 million or should that be billions or trillions?

[pscot]

60. Mission acomplished

[Marnie]

81. But if bin Laden was the mission

why did we invade and occupy Iraq, and Afghanistan when the only "mission" was sitting comfy in urban Pakistan?

[Drale]

2. Schweitzer is the guy with the veto branding iron right?

[stevedeshazer]

4. Yep.

[cstanleytech]

3. I want us to leave as well but

I cant help but point out that bin laden wasnt the sole reason we invaded and his death doesnt mean we pull out everything right away overnight.......just saying is all.

[KoKo]

5. We were TOLD that BIN LADEN was the SOLE REASON we Invaded Afghanistan...

Everyone knows that whose been around here for decades.

[KoKo]

6. Kick for BRIAN! GO TELL IT!

[cstanleytech]

12. No, at the time it was because he and his people were hiding out there and

the government in power were providing them a safe haven and refused to hand them over now the reason being given is because if we suddenly pull out it might cause enough of a problem to let those same people retake control of the country, not sure if I agree with them currently on that though and the especially since the current government wants us to leave as well.

[Bucky]

14. No we we're told that. You have to pay attention. Zawahiri is still operations chief of al-Q

It's a complicated situation. Exiting in a way that leaves intact the problems that bred al-Qaeda in the first place would be madness. The president has put out a plan for reducing our presense gradually and leaving a functional nation-state. You can't just pile all the troops in a helicopter and fly out. Obama's plan is sluggish and is meeting obstacles, but does seem to be having a gradual effect.

[plumbob]

16. Actually, we did get on helicopters in Vietnam and fly out and the danged Commies

took over! Today, they make all our Wrangler jeans.

Perhaps if we had just asked nicely, they would have made Wranglers without the war.

Just a thought. These are not our countries. We are bankrupting our own country, morally and financially, by being there.

I never wanted to go there for a moment, ever. I don't support any of our incursions anywhere in the world. At all.

I believe the governor has it right. Let's go home.

[snappyturtle]

17. +1 nt

[Name removed]

20. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[harmonicon]

23. Yep.

The only problem I see with Afghanistan is that no one mentions that the Taliban government would have never existed if it weren't for US support. We've been fucking that country up for 30 years, so why stop now?

[plumbob]

36. Uh-oh, Someone who was alive and remembers! Yikes.

Be careful, you will irritate some folks gathered around the kool-aid stand.

[freshwest]

41. Don't bring the Brits into this one. Kipling, etc.

[plumbob]

42. Dang! Well, shucks.

I could move up to my middle age and talk about Flanders, eh?


:)

[freshwest]

44. We could explore the Persian, Chinese or Mogul actors in the region. Amazing anyone's left alive.

You could go into your middle age, the middle ages or middle earth. We've got time to muddle around, after we stop meddling around.

:hi:

[freebrew]

57. My 2 cents....

if we pull out now, people may start to wonder why so many troops were needed all this time.
It sounds like a spy satellite and a small group of Seals was what was needed all along.
If, in fact, this was really bin Laden, if bin Laden is the real mastermind and financier.
All seems to nicely packaged; Oh here's the evil guy terrorizing a nation that spends more on defense than all the world. One guy. Think about it.

[Myrina]

61. +100

:applause:

[TheEuclideanOne]

26. You can't just pile all the troops in a helicopter and fly out

Yep. You can. Or do we go with your plan. Don't leave until we get the next guy..... then the next guy..... then the next guy......then well every bad guy out there until there are no more?

So, in your opinion, do we leave the minute we get Zawahiri?

[liberalmike27]

32. Planes, Trains, Automobiles, Jeeps, Tanks

Whatever ride is available, and they can walk if carriers aren't available. I'm sick of this sh*t!

[naaman fletcher]

7. What reason

Do you think justifies our staying?

[cstanleytech]

11. I didnt say we should stay...reread it please.

[freshwest]

43. Didn't leave Germany or Japan right after VE and VJ days, when combat ended. Vietnam, just ended.

Karzai has made deals with Europe, China and who knows else, and this is our chance to let them take over. If they want to kill someone, they can hire the locals.

We should be out of there, in WW2 we shared 'the end' with the Allies and came home except for military bases for eternity.

Regarding Vietnam, Nixon 'declared victory and came home.' And Bin Laden's death is a way of doing the same. Take the chance now before something else happens in 'their' endless wars.

It's not like we don't have 'Homeland Security' working overtime to protect us here post 9/11, huh?

I'm not trying to tell the veterans how it should be done, but I have vets in my family and honestly, when they got back home they were fortunate enough to be able to put it behind them, for the most part. This doesn't have to be our national mission or focus forever.

[trud]

70. freshwest

In what time continuum are you living? "Regarding Vietnam, Nixon 'declared victory and came home.'" What?

The U.S. was defeated, and raced to leave, with people one second away from being shot climbing into helicopters from the tops of buildings.

I wish we'd get defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan. That seems like the only thing that will end that stupidity.

[freshwest]

74. Snark registered. Re-read my post. Did I say either war is a victory?

The 'declare victory and go home' was the spin to stifle the hawks, just as this will do, hopefully. Most of their side still think we won militarily, that' it was just the stinking hippie liberals kept us from staying and finishing the job.' Whatever reason we left, whatever reason we do leave, is a good one. I don't care why.

What time continuum did or do I live in?

The one where I spent my teenage years and early twenties in the streets, trying to get my under 21 year friends the right to vote and not be drafted. The one where I traveled from coast to coast to demonstrate, walked door to door and in every public venue to end the abomination that was the Vietnam war and not some idealized piece of Hollywood drama.

The one where I saw my contemporaries come back in boxes or missing limbs, in wheelchairs, physically and psychologically scarred for life. The one where other members of my family, the ones I don't like to mention have shared, who are dying from barely sleeping for 40 years from memories of 'doing their job.' The one where I've been watching them rot from the inside out.

Just like I'm seeing now with vets coming back dying from the first Gulf War by Bush, Sr. and this latest round by Bush, Jr.

I've talked with people abroad in recent years and my view is this: If it takes the USA going into third world status to end this, that will be fine by me even if it costs me my and family their lives from loss of social safety nets from this. I don't want this on my conscience, I don't want to live in this Orwellian country the RW has been fighting for years to create with these wars and robbing us and the world to enrich the MIC.

I'm talking the tactics of TPTB, any excuse they give to leave. Nixon didn't get before the nation and whine about losing. I don't care what you think about the times I've lived through.

[trud]

76. freshwest "Did I say either war is a victory?"

You said Nixon declared Vietnam a victory. That's just plain in error about what happened. As to your saying it was a victory, you neither said that nor did I say you said that.

[freshwest]

79. I said: 'Regarding Vietnam, Nixon 'declared victory and came home'

He didn't use those words, that is an expression.

The verb and punctuation indicate those were not his words.

Perhaps you require the sarcasm emoticon to understand that.

You want to piss on a person who is anti-war, fine by me.

Here's your correction you need so much:

Regarding Vietnam, Nixon 'declared victory and came home.'

:sarcasm:

Now go piss on another anti-war person.

[krabigirl]

50. Ugh. Just ugh.

[yurbud]

9. he won't be welcome at any DLC or Blue Dog parties

[FirstLight]

10. please, oh please, oh please!!!

maybe those cheering crowds at the WH or Ground zero should start making THOSE signs and yelling for PEACE....

[maddogesq]

13. Mamas do let your babies grow up to be cowboys.

I really like this guy...and he has a trippin' sense of humor too.

[sarcasmo]

15. Iraq and Afghanistan as well.

[AsahinaKimi]

18. have to agree...

Time to pack up and go home.

[Initech]

19. What really angered me about this whole thing - he wasn't even in Iraq or Afghanistan to begin with!

He was in Pakistan the whole time! So what were the Pakistani leaders doing? Did they know they were hiding one of the world's most wanted men? What?

[cstanleytech]

21. Wrong

he was in Afghanistan as were his people before we invaded, its after we invaded that he relocated and eventually moved to where we finally found and killed him unless of course you think our government lied to invade Afghanistan just for the heck of it.

[Initech]

22. Let's think about this for a second...

We lied to invade Iraq just for the heck of it... what's another war? :nuke:

[harmonicon]

24. I'll take "government lied to invade" for 200, Alex.

Of course, once there was intelligence that put Bin Laden in Pakistan, we launched a full invasion of that country, replaced their government with a puppet government of our own headed by a US business man, and because of that, we caught one man. That's how these things get done.

[RSillsbee]

29. Maybe not just for the heck of it

But lying to invade Afghanistan? in a heartbeat

[cstanleytech]

35. There is zero evidence to show that is even likely

as there was nothing to gain, Iraq though sure there is plenty to show that they did probably lie through their teeth and they did have an interest there with all that potential oil.

[RSillsbee]

37. nothing to gain, seriously?

Wars are good for the economy, Wars are good for your (Chimpy's) daddy's freinds in the arms business. Four uncle Dick's company. I can think of any number of people who had "something to gain"

[ronnie624]

38. The historical record shows that the U.S. will indeed invade on a pretext.

There are trillions of dollars worth of resources in Afghanistan. The country is also essential to routing Central Asian oil and gas onto Western markets.

[cstanleytech]

77. Generally speaking though we have to have an interest in the

area to do an invasion with Afghanistan the reason was made by bin laden having a base there and the government there sanctioning it.

[harun]

45. Nothing to gain?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10629133/1/which-contractor-will-profit-from-afghanistan.html

Follow the money, the truth will set you free.

[cstanleytech]

78. Nothing to gain from an invasion to be precise

for example have you anything to show that the mineral deposits were known before the invasion or that the contractors knew of the invasion prior to 9/11?
Same for the pipeline thats to "India" and how does a pipeline to India gain us anything?

[harun]

84. It's not about the things themselves, it is about control. Control of resources and

the markets of resources.

When looking at said resources they are either in control of U.S. or an Allie of the U.S. or they aren't. They will go to war at every opportunity to stop control of resources by someone other than the U.S. or an Allie of the U.S.

I am very surprised I have to explain this.

This is a nice summary:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/feature/2010/06/18/war_for_resources_afghanistan

[ronnie624]

85. Thanks for posting.

I'm also surprised you have to explain it. I don't see how current events can lead to any other conclusion. And a reading of history shows that empires are ever motivated by a desire to seek strategic advantage over perceived enemies and control over resources, markets and labor.

The degree of self-delusion is unfortunate.

[cstanleytech]

86. Control over resourches (the minerals that were discovered) that they didnt know

(or atleast that no link has been posted to show they knew) to exist? That makes very little sense.

[harun]

87. Then you didn't read the link. It says those resources were known since

the time of Marco Polo.

Mind you I don't feel those resources were the primary cause of the occupation. I feel the primary reasons were:

* Look like we are taking the fight to the enemy (even though the enemy wasn't there)
* Stop radicalization of the Afghanistan population
* Surround Iran, keep them in line
* Stop Pakistan from using Afghanistan as a radicalization experiment

Then you have the resource and market control considerations. But those I listed are much higher on their "list".

[cstanleytech]

88. Where does it mention Marco Polo in the article for the minerals?

The article in fact claims and I quote "The previously unknown deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium — are so big and include so many minerals that are essential to modern industry that Afghanistan could eventually be transformed into one of the most important mining centers in the world, the United States officials believe."

so are they lying?

[harun]

89. First paragraph

"This 'discovery' in fact is ancient history tracing back to the times of Marco Polo."

[cstanleytech]

90. Are we talking about the article at

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html ?
If we both are then I apologize but I see nothing that even remotely resembles what you quoted in the first paragraph.

[TheEuclideanOne]

33. We play stupid...

Them: He was where??? In Pakistan?? NO WAY!?!?!? REALLY?!?!?!? I would have never guessed. Are you sure?

Us: Yes, we killed him today.

Them: Holy Cow! Well, that was one heck of a surprise. We never suspected he was here all along. Imagine that, right in the middle of our little country.

Us: So.... You really didn't know?

Them: No, it was as big of a shock to us than anybody.

Us: Well, okay. Just don't let it happen again. again.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

40. You forgot to add ...

Us: "And, here is another big sack of money. Sure, our schools are crumbling, our roads are shit, our children will have to pay for this because we simply cannot (wink! wink!) ask the wealthy in our country to pay their fair share - after all, (keep a straight face) the wealthy are (suppress the urge to laugh out loud) the jo ... jo ... job creators (whew, that's tough to say with a straight face)."

Sadly, there is a lot of truth throughout this thread. Afghanistan might not be the mess it is today if we has acted like a world leader back in the '80s and stayed around to help them rebuild schools, hospitals, housing and commerce after the Soviets pulled out. Iraq may have never invaded Kuwait if the American Ambassador April Glaspie had not told Hussein that the U.S. took no position on his border dispute with Kuwait the week before he invaded. And if we had quickly pulled troops out of the region following the first Iraq War, the U.S.S. Cole and the World Trade Center (twice) may not have been targeted by Al Quada, who considered it blasphemy to have our troops on their ground after the war. And that led to even more U.S. aggression into the region.

So, now, we have an ongoing war (almost ten years now) in Afghanistan. We invaded Iraq. And we have Pakistan, who we paid billions to assist us with finding Bin Laden and it appears that at best, they just weren't really good at it. But we muddled the area. And now Pakistan has nukes. I don't see the U.S. leaving the region in my lifetime.

Oy.

[krabigirl]

51. Which is why they are getting ready for more military action against Pakistan.

Besides just drones. Obama has always wanted war with Pakistan.

[Initech]

54. We might as well just declare WWIII and get it over with. It's the waiting I can't stand.

[patrice]

25. K&RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR~

[craigmatic]

27. I like Schweitzer. I could see him running after Obama.

[RSillsbee]

28. Works for me NT

[Starry Messenger]

30. He's right.

Too bad we won't be doing that. The State Department already issued a statement about that.

[Quantess]

31. Declare victory, and GTFO

Sometimes, it's what has to be done.

[harun]

46. +1, too bad U.S.A. doesn't do GTFO anymore.

[Shining Jack]

34. War is a fucking racket.

Nothing to do with the official reasons given by Governments.

[harun]

47. The only winners of modern warfare are war financiers and the business that receive

those finances (contractors, weapons manufacturers, etc.).

[trud]

72. harun

You got that right. Full employment and profit for the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about.

You know, there used to be something called a peace time army. Now it's war all the time, on the slightest pretext, often made up.

[Shining Jack]

75. +1

So true.

[CrispyQ]

39. "... This is not like winning a hockey game," he said.

I like this man.

[DirkGently]

48. And Pakistan. And Iraq. Apparently we're all out of money. And we caught the Bad Guy soooo ...

[krabigirl]

49. This guy is great! Second time recently he has come out saying good things.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

52. Simple: Guns or butter? Unnecessary War or save out society's safety net?

I just hope the that the comander-in-chief doesn't get hot with blood lust and turn into the idiot cowboy that preceded him. Boys like to play with their toys.

[nonperson]

53. And what the hell are we still doing in Iraq?

Bring the troops home from Afghanistan and Iraq NOW.

[truth2power]

55. Except that going into Afghanistan

was never about getting OBL.

[Overseas]

56. K&R. Yes Please!

[valerief]

58. Dead or alive, we should be outta there! nt

[sasha031]

59. Governor Schweitzer speaks for me

[progressoid]

62. 2014

Isn't that the administration's timeline?

[gateley]

63. I LOVE Schweitzer! ! I wanted him to be VP to President Biden!

:7

Now if we could just set him straight about "clean coal".

[Blue Owl]

64. Yeppers

This would be the most appropriate thing to do.

[emmadoggy]

65. Love this. Totally agree with him. nt

[crickets]

66. K&R

[Odin2005]

67. I agree with Governor Branding Iron Veto!

[Fire Walk With Me]

68. Eventually. Even if you kill the queen bee, the hive can still sting.

[Nihil]

82. A smart person would stop poking the hive with a stick though ...

... and just retreat to a safe distance without being stung again ...

:shrug:

[trud]

69. he said

"A pox on all their houses," he said. "Load up. Leave. There's nothing to win. I don't even know what winning is there."


Wow, a politician with sense.

[MissDeeds]

71. Yep

Now it's time to bring our troops home. No more excuses, no more mission creep.

K&R

[EVDebs]

73. Obama won't abandon the CIA's old Enron/Dahbol, now TAPI, pipeline project

Just sayin'

[Marnie]

80. We've killed thousands on the way to getting that

one evil individual.

There is and never was a justification for the US to invade and occupy Iraq, or Afghanistan or attack Pakistan.

There is even less justification now.

Let's zero the military budget for the rest of 2012 and find out what happens to our national debt. Just for fun, let's try it and find out what happens when you save trillions in the face of a multi trillion dollar black hole.

[BlueIris]

83. Thanks, Governor.

Spot on.