Occupy Oakland struggles with provocative fringe

[alp227]

Source: SF Chron

A majority of Occupy Oakland protesters sought Thursday to distance themselves from masked vandals who they said had undercut the movement by hijacking the tail end of a mostly peaceful protest, damaging downtown buildings and clashing with police.

"They are smearing our movement," Raleigh Latham, a filmmaker who has covered the Occupy protests, said to applause at a morning meeting of about 60 people at the movement's City Hall camp. "People who want to destroy our community are not welcome here."

They may not be welcomed by all of Occupy's committed sympathizers. But the hundreds of black-clad activists who coalesced downtown late Wednesday to take over a vacant building, barricade a street and then battle with police and vandalize stores are proving to be a complicated problem for the leaderless movement.

Many protesters, while saying they favor nonviolence, believe in provocative actions like marching on businesses and forcefully shutting them down - which happened at several bank branches during the comparatively peaceful daytime hours of Wednesday's general strike.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/03/BA5E1LQ9UB.DTL&ao=all

[slackmaster]

1. I always liked those fringe things

[sakabatou]

2. ...

:spank:

[MADem]

3. Hey, if it comes down to clothing, the OWS people should find a color OTHER than black.

The whole "black hoodie" thing is so lame--shit, didn't that candy guy--Eminem--wear one in his Obama video three or four years ago?

Maybe they should take a page from the Tea Party and these rightwing protests--more patriotic colors. Make Red/White/Blue the colors of the movement. It'll make the black hoodies and silly face scarves stand out like sore thumbs. It'll also shut the right wing up--how can they "insult the flag" and get away with it?

Also, any time those guys act up, someone should be on them with cameras, they should be surrounded, isolated from their bullying little friends, and their little bandito scarfs torn from their faces, and hoods pulled away to reveal them for who and what they are--little bullying thugs who take delight in fucking with shit just to make trouble. They should not be tolerated, instead, they should be shunned. They will destroy this effort if they are allowed to continue to make trouble from within the ranks.

It's not clear, though, how those advocating for peaceful protest can stop agitators from exploiting their energy. Rachel Dorney, a 23-year-old math tutor, suggested that people can do more to confront the vandals, saying, "Maybe we have to take the brick out of their hand."

Several activists attempted to do just that on Wednesday, both when banks and a Whole Foods store were vandalized during the day and when the unrest started up late at night. They met with some success, but the smashed windows and widespread graffiti showed it was far from complete.

Dorney proposed that Occupy Oakland pass a resolution apologizing or expressing regret to local businesses for the overnight destruction. But others balked, saying they weren't responsible for rogue vandals. The group instead agreed that it should offer to assist nearby businesses.

The street clashes early Thursday injured five protesters and three police officers and led to 101, including charges of assaulting a police officer and felony vandalism, according to Interim Police Chief Howard Jordan.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/03/BA5E1LQ9UB.DTL&ao=all#ixzz1chg1PJOU

[SoapBox]

4. or....

I've always thought that plain suits, white shirt, black tie, short hair for men and the women in
a "polite" length black skirt and white blouse...would shock the living hell out of the Baggers and Haters.

Like the Civil Rights Marches.

And silent, walking, masses, to me, make a huge impact.

[MADem]

5. I like that idea, too. Realistically, though, with this age group, it would be like asking them

to wear suits of armor or togas (actually, they might like that better!).

A march in "business casual" would make the same point. Putting women in skirts is just not a comfortable 'marching look,' I don't think. Particularly in winter. Hillary's pantsuits to the rescue?

I'd also recommend clip on ties, for obvious reasons--they can become a noose very quickly in an adverse environment.

I like the silent marches. I also like singing marchers--who is going to WANT to screw with a couple of thousand people singing "America The Beautiful" and "We Shall Overcome" while marching down the street? Maybe do it SILENT on the way up, SINGING on the way back?

I do think changing it up, doing the unexpected, is helpful to this movement. It gives the media something NEW to film. You don't want every march to look like the next one.

[No Elephants]

12. Business casiual for an outdoor cccupation? LOL Please see Reply 11.

And thanks for the broadbush slam on younger people.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seacaves]

22. You ordered up a suit?---Here you go--Occupy Chicago...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-occupy-chicago-protesters-interrupt-wisconsin-governors-speech-here-20111103,0,6514716.story


Occupy Chicago protesters interrupt Wisconsin governor's speech here

[MADem]

23. Excellent! Sartorial sweet home Chicago! nt

[No Elephants]

11. A civil rights march in the South is very different from an outdoor occupation in the

the NE in the fall and winter, no matter what era you are talking about.

Certain realities are involved in an occupation that don't apply for a few hour march.

Hoodies are warm and versatile for layering and black and navy don't look dingy from outdoor city living as quickly as other colors.

But, jeez, these people are heroes, freezing and getting rained on day after day on our behalf.

And people who are staying home, instead of joining them, are nitpicking them over everything?

Hoodies, instead of suits and stockings? Seriously?

That is not even taking basic realities of an occupation into account, let alone changes in styles in the last sixty years.

More to the point, the only thing I have to say to the demonstrators is "Thank you, and I will be out there with you every chance I get."

[MADem]

15. They are a hit at the retirement village where I go to take elderly people

to their doctor's appointments. Just saying.

Look, if you are happy with your little hoodies, go on, wear them. No one is stopping you. They just aren't the "fashion foreward" statement that they used to be. That's my point.

They're rather ubiquitous at this stage of the game--not something that's just for "the cool kids."



No one is "nitpicking" -- two of us here are simply having a little conversation, batting ideas back and forth about different ways to focus attention on the protests. No one is "slamming" young people, like you suggested. We're just relating back to our own history in search of ideas. No one is ORDERING anyone to behave as we suggest--in fact, you can do whatever the hell you'd like.

Our only point is this: Being well dressed is UNEXPECTED. Behaving in overtly patriotic fashion is UNEXPECTED. See, that is how you get attention--you do things that people do not anticipate, that will make people sit up and take notice. Something different from the same old "Hey hey ho ho (fill in blank) has got to go" and "One two three four, we don't want your (rhymes with four)." The same shit, over and over again, gets boring. New stuff envigorates. That's just true, but feel free to ignore it.

You, though, are taking everything personally, as though our offhand comments are somehow directed straight at YOU and are criticisms, when they aren't that at all. Lighten up.

[No Elephants]

16. "My hoodies?" LOL As it happens, I don't wear hoodies in any color

I just (a) can see why occupiers might wear them; (b) don't attack the occupiers or take any satisfaction in the negative things that had happened to them; and (c) would not dream of attacking or demeaning anyone for something like wearing a hoodie.

I also know the difference between addressing the subject matter of what is posted versus attacking a poster (or the wardrobe I nay imagine them to have) personally.

Carry on.

ETA: I have nothi8ng against hoodies in any color or anyone of any age who wears them. In fact, they look so comfortable and cosy, I wish I could wear them.

[MADem]

17. Well, good for you. But then, this discussion didn't start out to be about you, so now it

is not about you once more, since you don't have any hoodies, out-of-fashion or otherwise. Happy that you've completely derailed a pleasant little tactical chat between two people who wish this movement well? Feeling like a big shot now?

Pat yourself on your un-hoodied back!

:eyes:

[LanternWaste]

24. Let's try not to over dramatize...

"are nitpicking them over everything?..."

Let's try not to over dramatize-- consciously confusing "suggesting" with "nit-picking" does little service to any position.

Suggestions which neither minimize nor trivialize but merely an attempt to help by offering alternatives which may or may not have been offered before. Why in the world would anyone get pissed off at that?

[seacaves]

21. Occupy Chicago protesting Walker were in Suits, ties, jackets See photo..

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-occupy-chicago-protesters-interrupt-wisconsin-governors-speech-here-20111103,0,6514716.story

[DallasNE]

6. Who Are These People?

Obviously they belong to another group and are using Occupy events to further their own agenda while discrediting the Occupy movement. They probably have their own Facebook page to coordinate their illegal activity. But that doesn't address who they are. Could they be police infiltrators, anarchists or Tea Baggers? Or, perhaps a blend.

Also, where were the police when this happened --- arresting peaceful protestors instead of these rouge thugs? It seems as though they can't get very much right.

[MADem]

10. They call them black bloc--they are anarchists and anarchist wanna-bees.

Disaffected little fuckers who like to break things...

I suppose if police wanted to infiltrate, that would be one way of getting in there, but some people are getting sick of them and don't want to put up with their bullying crap any more.

In Boston, they sneaked around and did their vandalism away from the eyes of the police, late at night.

[No Elephants]

9. Hoodies are lame? out of date? Anything to criticize occupiers?

[MADem]

13. The black "tough guy" ones are. Why look like a bully or a criminal when

that's not the goal?

When fifty and sixty year olds are farting around in black hoodies, it's time for a new fashion statement.

[slackmaster]

18. The concept of a black ANYTHING being intimidating lost all power for me in 1974...

...when I first saw the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail at one of the now-defunct big screen theaters in my city.

[MADem]

20. That was a very funny scene in a very funny movie.

It can still make me laugh.

[lbrtbell]

19. I agree, we need to do red/white/blue

Show them we are AMERICANS, and that the Repukes don't have exclusive rights to those colors or our flag.

[blackspade]

7. I think there are 'agent provocateurs' at work here.

Likely along with right wingers like Breitbart and his brigade of creepy minions.

[red dog 1]

8. Masked, black-clad vandals........COINTELPRO LIVES!

[leveymg]

25. Coco Channel, inventor of the Little Black Bloc Dress, Fascist collaborator, would be proud.

Her Little Black Bloc Dress (and something stylish for the BB guys):