Germans Ask 'How' as Neo-Nazi Crimes Unravel

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Germans Ask 'How' as Neo-Nazi Crimes Unravel
By MELISSA EDDY Associated Press
BERLIN November 19, 2011 (AP)

A 2000 firebomb targeting Russian Jewish immigrants at a Duesseldorf railway station. A 2004 nailbombing in a Cologne immigrant neighborhood. A 2008 fire in a Ludwigshafen apartment building that killed nine Turkish immigrants, including five children.

All unsolved crimes, and all now reopened as the possible work of a small band of neo-Nazis who allegedly killed and terrorized minorities for a decade, undetected by Germany's thousands of security authorities nationwide before they finally tripped up this month.

Chancellor Angela Merkel has vowed a thorough investigation of the group's crimes, calling them "a disgrace, shameful for Germany."

Yet many questions remain. Key among them is whether the group is responsible for deadly hate crimes beyond the 10 deaths for which they are blamed, and whether there are other members or sympathizers still at large. More broadly, the nation is asking how such a group could have been allowed to carry out these crimes undetected for so long.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/germans-neo-nazi-crimes-unravel-14988174

[No Elephants]

1. It's shameful wherever it happens.

In Massachusetts, we have had temples defaced, tombstones in cemeteries destroyed, swastikas painted on the lockers of school kids and on and on. The night Obama was elected, a church with African Americans in the congregation was burned to the ground.

Turns your stomach and makes you fruious and teary eyed all at once.

However, I do believe Massachusetts does each time, try hard to find the perps, which is the very least that can be done.

I guess part of us is still imprinted with the urge to kill outsiders in case they came to eat the animal being cooked over the fire in the cave. (Apologies to our ancestors for the stereotype.)

[pampango]

2. Euronews: German conference tackles neo-Nazi threat

http://www.euronews.net/2011/11/19/german-conference-tackles-neo-nazi-threat/

Strategy in Germany against a rise of far-right extremism is under the spotlight after revelations of a string of neo-Nazi murders.

A conference of ministers and experts has been held in Berlin after an underground cell went undetected for a decade, killing 10 people, mostly immigrants.

Past intelligence gathering related to neo-Nazi groups and the use of undercover agents have been criticised.

Green party justice expert Hans-Christian Ströbele said: “These undercover agents do not lead to anything. They don’t report anything. The undercover agents are mostly people who end up continuing their racist, extreme-right thinking.”

[Democat]

3. The government solution will probably be to take away more freedoms

That's the usual response.

[no_hypocrisy]

4. To some *individuals* in Germany, being a Nazi has been present beyond WWII.

In 1979 I was travelling alone through Europe, including Germany. I stayed with the brother of a friend who had stayed on after his Army stint, married, and was working in a small town. He had joined the Jaegers (royal huntsmen).*

One of the Jaegers was turning 85 and my friend invited me to come to his birthday party in the middle of the woods. The Jaegers were all dressed in their uniforms, played hunting songs on their horns, drank a lot, sang a lot.

I only had four semesters of German in college (just graduated), so I could translate the songs to a certain degree. I thought I was imagining it, but each song was what I'd call a "Hitler fight song" with praise to him, a call for blood oaths, "let's get the Jews", etc. I'd say there were about 30-35 middle aged to elderly men singing very enthusiastically. Let'say I felt very uncomfortable.

I later asked my friend why did he bring me to this event as I was Jewish. He told me that it didn't mean anything. I thought otherwise.

What has unraveled recently in Germany doesn't surprise me. Not because of a paranoid fear of the return of Nazis, but because on later visits to Germany, I listened to resentment being discussed about "Auslanders" (foreigners), meaning Turkish immigrants who came as cheap labor and became residents, collecting social benefits and housing and bringing in their families. Not to mention the incorporation of East Germany which housed a sort of preserved attitude against anyone not full-blooded German (despite all the communism being imposed on them for 50 years). I figured it would be a matter of time where individuals would figure that action would get results that discussion wouldn't.


* Unlike here, in Germany, you can only legally have weapons if you're in the military, you're the police, or you're a Jaeger. And it's very expensive to be a Jaeger with all the tests you need to pass and the cost of supplies.

[COLGATE4]

5. There is an undercurrent of Neo-Nazism present in Germany

that envelopes not only Germans of the WWII generation but, more significantly, their children, i.e. men in their 60's today. They minimize Hitler's faults to the only significant one - "he lost the war" and point to his many 'triumphs'. It's a dangerous mindset and only grows stronger with economic woes and an easily identifiable scapegoat (the auslanders).

[izquierdista]

6. Not only Germany

If you look, you can find them in Poland, Russia, and other places overrun in WWII. These mental defectives believe all the racism, except that their race or ethnicity is the one that was meant to be on top. Left to their own, they are violent and uncivilized and need constant correction, lest they get out of control. They play on the dark side of human nature, only coming to the fore when society has broken down. All they need is a leader to tell them which scapegoat to attack. Which is they key to controlling them: always be vigilant for their tell-tale signs and then isolate and eradicate them.

[formercia]

7. Similar events after WWI

The 'Hunting Club' ruse was used as a means to obtain weapons. Right wingers in the US were more than glad to provide weapons to these 'civilian' groups that later turned into the SA and SS. Remington Arms was a major supplier, supplying rifles in the German 7.92x57 caliber.

The Bush connection:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2149259

second link is gone. How convenient.

[LittleGirl]

8. The turks in Germany are like the

Mexican in this country. That's my take of it.

[krispos42]

10. Germany has been "enjoying" the fruits of Hitlers war against Jews.

Germany was virtually depopulated of Jews, so post-war Germans were raised in an "judenfrie" country. There probably wasn't a lot of intimate realization of how awful the Nazis were. You had armed foreigners telling you and showing you a lot of pictures, but there weren't a lot of locals that could personally relate their stories.

It's probably pretty abstract over there. "We slaughters millions of Jews. Huh. Pass the salt, please."


:shrug:

[COLGATE4]

11. Unfortunately you're right on the money. But instead it's

"they SAY we slaughtered millions of Jews - Pass the salt."

[matk]

17. Holocaust deniers

Pardon me saying, you seem to have a pretty narrow view of the average German's mindset regarding WWII in general, and the Holocaust specifically. I'm curious how you came to this conclusion. Did you spend any significant time in Germany? May I ask how many Germans denying the Holocaust you personally know, especially ones under 80 years of age?

Are you sure you're not just stereotyping, badly?

[Karenina]

19. Ami style German bashing gets old...

Such ignorance on display. :eyes:

[matk]

18. Have you ever been to Germany?

"There probably wasn't a lot of intimate realization"....

Are you sure you're talking about Germany here? Because, in the Germany I know, there's probably not a single town without some sort of Holocaust memorial. In my village of 5000, there's the old synagogue that has been turned into a museum, as well as regular events of the descendant of local Jews telling their stories, for example in the school classroom. Many houses have small signs explaining which Jewish family lived there, and what happened to them.

Even though hardly any Jews lived in post-war Germany, I do think people fully realized the scale of crimes perpetrated by the Nazis - probably even more so because of it.

Saying that there are not many locals that can personally relate to that time must be the understatement of the year, considering that probably most families lost members in the war, and some of the generation that grew up during war time are still alive today.

By the way, it also helps when you're quoting German that you do it correctly. The word you're looking for is "judenfrei". And, on another note, how would you compare (your alleged abstract) German reaction of "pass the salt" to the average American's reaction to the genocide of Native Americans? Should I draw any conclusions about the current American mindset if you don't have a nervous breakdown any time that genocide is mentioned?

[bluesmail]

13. These are dangerous, scary times and I'm afraid that what the 1% have

are using it to further their agenda, oh crap I want off the planet, the sooner the better. Yes, I believe #OWS is the start of the Revolution we've all been waiting for, but it may be what the 1% want, you don't think they have lots of back-up plans? I hope it backfires on them, globally. Big Time. OK, I'm done for now, Happy T-Day especially to those who have no where to go and no family to share T-Day with.

[Solly Mack]

9. K&R

[Judi Lynn]

12. 'Pink Panther' murders see Nazi ghosts return to haunt Germany

'Pink Panther' murders see Nazi ghosts return to haunt Germany
A series of murders by a Neo-Nazi gang has sparked fresh soul-searching in Germany, reports Colin Freeman
Colin Freeman in Zwickau
8:50PM GMT 19 Nov 2011

TUCKED DOWN a side street a few minutes' swagger from a drab, graffiti-covered bus station, the "Eastwear" clothes store in Zwickau has everything today's smartly dressed neo-Nazi-about-town could want.

As well as shirts and bomber jackets by the leisure brand Thor Steinar – Germany's answer to the British skinhead favourites Fred Perry and Lonsdale – there is an extensive wardrobe for those who like their tailoring with rather more attitude, from "Hooligan" brand gloves through to "Hatewear" and "Iron Fist" sweatshirts.

Last week, though, the most sinister item on show was not the T-shirt with the knuckle-duster and crossed baseball bat motif, but the T-shirt pinned to the front counter with a cartoon of the Pink Panther, bearing the logo "Staatsfeind", or "enemy of the state".

"It's just a logo, it doesn't have anything to do with neo-Nazi politics," insisted the shop assistant, who identified himself only as Thomas, when asked why he had it pinned to the front of his counter. "Eighty per cent of our customers are just normal people anyway, and besides, real neo-Nazis wouldn't buy clothes here – they'd want to stay undetected."

More:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/8901815/Pink-Panther-murders-see-Nazi-ghosts-return-to-haunt-Germany.html

[DonCoquixote]

14. The fact the EU has had to crown Merkel leader

Cannot help this, it only reinforces the idea many Germans have that they are destined to rule Europe and the West. All hail the Fourth Reich!

[matk]

16. "...reinforces the idea many Germans have..."

How many Germans do you personally know that have this idea?

[Judi Lynn]

15. Germany to compensate 'neo-Nazi' murder victims

20 November 2011 Last updated at 14:25 ET
Germany to compensate 'neo-Nazi' murder victims

Germany has agreed to compensate families of victims of an alleged neo-Nazi cell accused of killing 10 people over a decade.

The parliament, chancellery and presidency also agreed to hold a national memorial service for the dead.

The killings have long been known as the "kebab murders" because many of those killed ran snack shops.

Detectives have charged a woman and arrested another person in connection with the case.

More:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15813206

[defendandprotect]

20. k/r -- quite a question of how it could have gone on so long undetected -- !! hmmm....